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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (5 Viewers)

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Jayrod said:
The difference in quality of basketball from the Bucks/Celtics to the other series is noticeable.  Phoenix and Dallas have their moments, but just don't seem as consistently good and none of the games have gone down to the wire.  I honestly don't know what to think of Miami and think they can win 2 games against the BOS/MIL winner, but just don't think they can win that series.  Spo is the best coach left in the East, though and they have depth, shooting and defense so they aren't exactly a long shot.

I didn't watch any of the GS/MEM game last night, but WTF Warriors?
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The Warriors looked like they didn't care and we will finish it at home in 6. I don't think they would have beaten the Grizz last night even if they did try, but they wouldn't have been down by 55 at one point if they did. 

 
Jayrod said:
Daniel Theis - A-, Had a perfect game offensively, but he was a liability on defense vs Giannis which is why he only played 11 minutes.
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i didn't see the game.. can you explain this a bit more?

he played a "perfect game" offensively.... was a liability on defense (only vs. Giannis?)... played 11 minutes and was the best player for the Celtics last night?

 
mr. furley said:
i didn't see the game.. can you explain this a bit more?

he played a "perfect game" offensively.... was a liability on defense (only vs. Giannis?)... played 11 minutes and was the best player for the Celtics last night?
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He didn't miss a shot, had 11 points on offense and 0 turnovers, but either gets scored on or fouls when he has to cover Giannis.  I said Derrick White was our best player last night.

 
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mr. furley said:
someone (forget who) said before the series that the Celtics lack of a true lead guard/ball handler would be what cost them the series

it has showed up a few times in the series so far
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Yea, Smart thinks he is that, and he passes for that most of the time, but they really needed a steadying PG during those last few minutes last night. Instead they got the opposite

 
the moops said:
Yea, Smart thinks he is that, and he passes for that most of the time, but they really needed a steadying PG during those last few minutes last night. Instead they got the opposite
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The problem Boston had earlier in the season (and a couple times over the second half of the season) was their end of game clock management is horrible. They often times got to double digit leads by running a motion offense with a lot of ball movement that tired out the opposition. But then late in the game they walk the ball up, stand around for 20 seconds, and then have Tatum chuck up a contested three with little chance for an offensive rebound (especially without Rob Williams playing). That rarely worked and gave the opposing team an on-court timeout every Boston possession. Defenders only had to stand next to people as the Celtics tried to milk the clock and cling to a victory. They've had issues turning off the switch on offense and then trying to turn it back on when they needed to (and that rarely if ever worked out).

Even doing nothing on offense down the stretch last night, it took the Bucks going 4 for 4 from three (including one from Giannis) in the last two minutes and an offensive rebound on a missed free throw for Milwaukee to win. Props to the Bucks for getting all those things to happen, but most nights that wouldn't happen and Boston would have snuck out with a W.

And how important did the non-basket a fraction before halfway time turn out to be?

 
msudaisy26 said:
I will give you the Suns, but Warriors and Heat have both had extreme easy paths to the conference finals assuming they finish these series and they look awful at times. If the Grizz weren't so young and dumb they would be up in this series right and 76ers would probably be up as well if Embiid was there the first 2 games. 

Everytime I watch either team I get more convinced neither team has a chance next round. I only hold slight hope for the Warriors because they have won before and they might be able to turn it on and off when needed, but I am not confident in saying that. 
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Miami is a different defensive animal than almost anyone in the playoffs (except maybe Boston), and they lost the two games in Philly bc they couldn't buy a three point basket. Also, Lowry coming back actually hurt Miami's flow bc he was obviously hobbled (and unlike Embiid, miami has players who can give a "Lowry-like" contribution). Philly with a healthy embiid likely makes things closer, but again, south beach is undefeated against the 6ers.

 
Jayrod said:
So, last night had church stuff so recorded and watched the Celtics game late.

I was anxious the whole 4th quarter because even when it seemed like the Celtics did something well, Milwaukee did something better and the lead just kept dwindling.  As soon as I saw the end, I just shut the TV off, turned off all the lights and went to bed.  One of the most frustrating things I've ever watched.

@ShamrockPride was saying the same things I was yelling at the TV, their shot selection last night was horrible.  A TON of early shot clock, single or no pass threes jacked up and came up with empty possessions which kept the game too close.  Udoka has got to reign that crap in.  They work the ball on even 3-4 of those possessions and get a bucket or 2, and we are celebrating today.  Yes, some TO's and offensive rebounds are an issue, but the Bucks will do that to you and they have to live with that because there is little you can do about it without sacrificing too much elsewhere.  But the terrible, early 3's are a mental mistake that is easily correctable.

Smart played great for 3.5 quarters.  For most of the game he was tremendous, playing great defense and making the right play on offense.  He was taking open threes after the ball had moved a bunch and was consistent.  As great as Tatum can be and was at times, he shot us into a close game and wasn't efficient as he used 34 possessions to get his 34 pts.

But the absolute worst Celtic tonight was Grant Williams.  In 30 minutes, he was 0/3 with 2 rebounds and 2 TO's.  He had a bunny blocked at the rim by Grayson Allen after a great feed from White (who played well again) and missed 2 open looks from 3.  He didn't have any stellar defensive plays and ended up with 4 fouls and was -11 for the game.  Easily his worst game of the series and made enough negative plays that I put this on him more than anyone. 

I'm feeling judgmental today after gut punched in the gut last night.  Here are my grades for everyone on Boston who played last night:

  • Jayson Tatum - C+, this may be harsh as he got the points going, but only 6 rbds and 34 pts on 40% usage is just too inefficient for a superstar in a big playoff game.  He needed to be just slightly better for us to win this game.
  • Al Horford - B, he was fairly efficient, but had a limited impact.  We needed at least 10 rbds from him and he only got 8 in over 40 minutes.  He had a couple of really good defensive plays, and he was good but not great.
  • Marcus Smart - B-, again, he played really well for 3.5 quarters, but his late game actions choked it away.  Only 1 assist is not enough from him either.
  • Jaylen Brown - A-, he played the best out of the starters.  He had a couple of those "small hands" turnovers where he just can't hang onto the dang thing under pressure and is ineffective when he gets switched onto Giannis on defense, but he was good everywhere else and chipped in 8 boards and was efficient on offense.  He was 3/5 from the line and one of those misses was costly late in the 4th.
  • Grant Williams - D, only thing that saved him from getting an F was the fact that the Bucks shied away from him in the 1/2 court and he made a couple of solid plays on defense, but they didn't challenge him very often.  Offensively he was a costly liability and had the worst +/- on the team.
  • Derrick White - A, he did his job very well, was efficient scoring, rebounded and defended well.  Probably our best player last night and led the team at +8 over 32 minutes.
  • Daniel Theis - A-, Had a perfect game offensively, but he was a liability on defense vs Giannis which is why he only played 11 minutes.
  • Payton Pritchard - B+, he played well for his limited role (<10min).  Got 2 big buckets in the 4th and grabbed a couple of long rebounds. They just can't play him for long stretches because he'll get abused on defense.
Boston should have won this game.  Credit to the Bucks as Giannis was stellar again (his 2 made 3's were huge) and Jrue made the plays on both end they needed.  They ground it out and took it from the Celtics any time they lost focus.  I wish I didn't care so much about the Celtics and could just enjoy the greatness of the Bucks, but I'm too frustrated by Boston's mistakes to enjoy it right now.  Still holding out hope for a 7th game victory, but feeling very deflated right now.  Whoever wins this series is who I'm rooting for the rest of the way.
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In general I agree with the vast majority of what you just posted—with the exception of Tatum.  No way I give him a passing grade last night.  He was 12-29 from the field—and 2-11 from three point land.  This means he was 10-18 from 2 point field goals—and he went 8-9 from the free throw line.   The fact of the matter is that he was ultra efficient from 2 point territory and the free throw line—and one of the best ways to get to the free throw line is to attack the basket.   His shot selection was very poor in the first half and he settled for way too many 3point shots—and his poor decision making is one of the main reasons why Boston was only up by 7 at half—when they easily played well enough to be up by 15.  Between his settling for 3’s and his numerous defensive lapses where he was complaining to refs instead of getting back—he easily deserves a large portion of the blame in the Celtics collapse.   He owes it to his team to play smarter and more efficiently.  The Celtics were dominating much of the game—and yet—the only Celtics with a positive plus/minus were Theis, White and Pritchard.  Imo I’d give Tatum a D or D-

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
In general I agree with the vast majority of what you just posted—with the exception of Tatum.  No way I give him a passing grade last night.  He was 12-29 from the field—and 2-11 from three point land.  This means he was 10-18 from 2 point field goals—and he went 8-9 from the free throw line.   The fact of the matter is that he was ultra efficient from 2 point territory and the free throw line—and one of the best ways to get to the free throw line is to attack the basket.   His shot selection was very poor in the first half and he settled for way too many 3point shots—and his poor decision making is one of the main reasons why Boston was only up by 7 at half—when they easily played well enough to be up by 15.  Between his settling for 3’s and his numerous defensive lapses where he was complaining to refs instead of getting back—he easily deserves a large portion of the blame in the Celtics collapse.   He owes it to his team to play smarter and more efficiently.  The Celtics were dominating much of the game—and yet—the only Celtics with a positive plus/minus were Theis, White and Pritchard.  Imo I’d give Tatum a D or D-
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I tended to agree with you and initially had him at C-, but he scored 34 pts and used 34 possessions to do it against a very good defense.  That's 1.0/pos which isn't great, but isn't bad.  He also made some decent plays on defense and only had 1 TO.  He made a lot of good plays, so as mad as he was making me at times, we aren't even ahead or really competitive without him.

I think it shows how much he has become a true superstar if a 34 pt game is a disappointment.  Tough loss to swallow and he bears some blame but in no way way was he terrible for the entire game.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
In general I agree with the vast majority of what you just posted—with the exception of Tatum.  No way I give him a passing grade last night.  He was 12-29 from the field—and 2-11 from three point land.  This means he was 10-18 from 2 point field goals—and he went 8-9 from the free throw line.   The fact of the matter is that he was ultra efficient from 2 point territory and the free throw line—and one of the best ways to get to the free throw line is to attack the basket.   His shot selection was very poor in the first half and he settled for way too many 3point shots—and his poor decision making is one of the main reasons why Boston was only up by 7 at half—when they easily played well enough to be up by 15.  Between his settling for 3’s and his numerous defensive lapses where he was complaining to refs instead of getting back—he easily deserves a large portion of the blame in the Celtics collapse.   He owes it to his team to play smarter and more efficiently.  The Celtics were dominating much of the game—and yet—the only Celtics with a positive plus/minus were Theis, White and Pritchard.  Imo I’d give Tatum a D or D-
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It wouldn't shock me if Tatum came out and played a complete game in Game 6. He's played meh for full halves of games and then played well for a quarter and a half. He's due for a 45/15/8 game. Not expecting it, but it seems like it could happen.

The problem so far in his career is he hasn't really been a closer at the end of games. The team keeps giving him the ball in crunch time, but he doesn't do much with it. He dribbles in place and acts like he is going to do something but rarely does. Then he just launches a long three. I don't know what Tatum's late game / close game three-point shooting percentage over his career is, but I am guessing it isn't that high. He dribbles so much that he sometimes turns the ball over just from over dribbling. Boston needs to tell him just lower his shoulder and go to the rim. He would get a call in those situations and might even get an and 1. Ideally, you don't want the clock stopped, but at that stage the points are worth more than just getting empty possession after empty possession.

And the whining over not getting a foul call needs to stop. They need to add a section in his contract that he gets an extra $100K per game if he completely ignores the refs each night.

 
Jayrod said:
I tended to agree with you and initially had him at C-, but he scored 34 pts and used 34 possessions to do it against a very good defense.  That's 1.0/pos which isn't great, but isn't bad.  He also made some decent plays on defense and only had 1 TO.  He made a lot of good plays, so as mad as he was making me at times, we aren't even ahead or really competitive without him.

I think it shows how much he has become a true superstar if a 34 pt game is a disappointment.  Tough loss to swallow and he bears some blame but in no way way was he terrible for the entire game.
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No one cares or remembers about players that wilt at the end of a playoff game and come away with an L when a W should have already been a foregone conclusion. C's fans would rather he scored only 15 points and pulled it out at the end then if he scored 34 points and the team blew almost a 15-point lead in the last 10 minutes. Boston losing was not just on Tatum, but if he fashions himself as a Top 5 NBA player, he needs to do more in crunch time to close out games (no matter what he did in the first 45 minutes).

 
Anarchy99 said:
And the whining over not getting a foul call needs to stop. They need to add a section in his (Tatum's) contract that he gets an extra $100K per game if he completely ignores the refs each night.
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Yeah, it's a joke.   Tatum and Smart think they get fouled every single time they take a shot. So g'damn annoying.

 
Will be interesting to see if Boston can get things back together for Game 6. They haven't lost back-to-back games in their last 44 games.

 
One thing I haven't mentioned yet that I noticed during the game last night was a phenomenal adjustment by Bud.

He rested Giannis in quarters 1-3.

Granted it wasn't much and Giannis still had to perform, but he gave him enough rest that he didn't look tired in the 4th qtr for the first time this series.

That was one reason Boston should have had a bigger lead coming into the 4th, but the aforementioned shot selection by one JT kept it too close.

 
Jayrod said:
I tended to agree with you and initially had him at C-, but he scored 34 pts and used 34 possessions to do it against a very good defense.  That's 1.0/pos which isn't great, but isn't bad.  He also made some decent plays on defense and only had 1 TO.  He made a lot of good plays, so as mad as he was making me at times, we aren't even ahead or really competitive without him.

I think it shows how much he has become a true superstar if a 34 pt game is a disappointment.  Tough loss to swallow and he bears some blame but in no way way was he terrible for the entire game.
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I think you are using his total stats to justify giving him a passing grade as opposed to looking at the dynamics of the game.  The Bucks defense was not very good last night.  The Celtics shot over 50% from the field.  Pretty much every player except for Tatum and Grant Williams were really efficient on the offensive end. Here is the breakdown for you:

Theis.  5-5 from the field

White. 4-5 from the field

Pritchard 2-3 from the field 

Brown 9-19 from the field (3-7 from 3pt)

Smart 6-11 from the field (3-5 from 3pt)

Horford 4-7 from the field 

Williams 0-3 from the field (although inefficient-he didn’t take a really meaningful amount of shots)

Tatum 12-29 from the field (2-11 from 3pt)

The Celtics as a team shot 51.2% from the field last night.   As a team—they were 10-31 from the 3-point line (32.3%).  However—if you take out what Tatum did from 3-point line the rest of the Celtics were 8-20 from the 3point line—which is 40%—which is amazingly good.  

Basically speaking—Tatums performance from the 3 point line was truly  one of the only inefficient things the Celtics did on offense last night.  The worst part was that it wasn’t like he was forced to take that many 3’s. Many of them he settled for and took before attacking the basket or probing the defense.  

As @Anarchy99 mentioned—he wouldn’t be surprised to see Tatum have a truly signature superstar game.  My argument to that is that last night was the night for that to happen.  His teammates were rolling—which inherently should make things easier for him.  He effectively was was rolling offensively with the exception of his 3-point shooting—yet he took 11 of them.   There is no doubt in my mind that if he had taken 5-6 three’s instead of 11–he hits 40 plus points and the Celtics win the game.  The stats show that his 3-point shooting last night basically shot the Bucks back into the game.  He should thank Marcus Smart for being a scapegoat that covered up a lot of his own poor shot selection.  

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
I think you are using his total stats to justify giving him a passing grade as opposed to looking at the dynamics of the game.  The Bucks defense was not very good last night.  The Celtics shot over 50% from the field.  Pretty much every player except for Tatum and Grant Williams were really efficient on the offensive end. Here is the breakdown for you:

Theis.  5-5 from the field

White. 4-5 from the field

Pritchard 2-3 from the field 

Brown 9-19 from the field (3-7 from 3pt)

Smart 6-11 from the field (3-5 from 3pt)

Horford 4-7 from the field 

Williams 0-3 from the field (although inefficient-he didn’t take a really meaningful amount of shots)

Tatum 12-29 from the field (2-11 from 3pt)

The Celtics as a team shot 51.2% from the field last night.   As a team—they were 10-31 from the 3-point line (32.3%).  However—if you take out what Tatum did from 3-point line the rest of the Celtics were 8-20 from the 3point line—which is 40%—which is amazingly good.  

Basically speaking—Tatums performance from the 3 point line was truly  one of the only inefficient things the Celtics did on offense last night.  The worst part was that it wasn’t like he was forced to take that many 3’s. Many of them he settled for and took before attacking the basket or probing the defense.  

As @Anarchy99 mentioned—he wouldn’t be surprised to see Tatum have a truly signature superstar game.  My argument to that is that last night was the night for that to happen.  His teammates were rolling—which inherently should make things easier for him.  He effectively was was rolling offensively with the exception of his 3-point shooting—yet he took 11 of them.   There is no doubt in my mind that if he had taken 5-6 three’s instead of 11–he hits 40 plus points and the Celtics win the game.  The stats show that his 3-point shooting last night basically shot the Bucks back into the game.  He should thank Marcus Smart for being a scapegoat that covered up a lot of his own poor shot selection.  
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:shrug: Maybe I'm just a soft grader.  He got the 2nd worst grade on the team.

 
Jayrod said:
:shrug: Maybe I'm just a soft grader.  He got the 2nd worst grade on the team.
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He’s also their star player. He’s at home, his teammates are playing very well, in a must win game.  All he needs to do is show some intelligence in his shot selection and to get back on defense and they win the game.  He failed.  In any case—lets hope he does get things together and the Celtics force a game 7.  It’s certainly been a fun and interesting series. 

 
current odds to win championship

Golden State Warriors+225

Phoenix Suns+225

Milwaukee Bucks+400

Miami Heat+550

Boston Celtics+1000 (hmmm)

Philadelphia 76ers+3000

Memphis Grizzlies+4000

Dallas Mavericks+5000

 
Chaos Commish said:
current odds to win championship

Golden State Warriors+225

Phoenix Suns+225

Milwaukee Bucks+400

Miami Heat+550

Boston Celtics+1000 (hmmm)

Philadelphia 76ers+3000

Memphis Grizzlies+4000

Dallas Mavericks+5000
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Sounds about right.

eta---I'm seeing it at +780

 
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Chaos Commish said:
meh, put me in the group that feels Boston/Milwaukee feels like the finals. the uncertainty of that series is driving more favorable odds. i won't be surprised if the winner instantly becomes the favorite or very very close to it.
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I mean they gotta win back-to-back against MIL then two more series on top of that.  What price do you put on each of those?

FWIW, Pinnacle hase them at +762.  

 
which reminds me. i have time to make a bunch of daily fantasy teams from tonight's games. tell me who ya think is gonna shine... unexpectedly... I'll use draftkings. 

 
Chaos Commish said:
which reminds me. i have time to make a bunch of daily fantasy teams from tonight's games. tell me who ya think is gonna shine... unexpectedly... I'll use draftkings. 
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a rare night for me... pulling for phllly... wanting game 7.

Embiid and Brunson made 11 fantasy lineups with a hodge podge of others. Plenty of Luka, Maxey and Harden. Too much Vincent and Bertans.  :popcorn:

 
Pipes said:
Jayson Tatum flops
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i heard a few stats, said at least 4 of the 3s and 2 or 3 baskets made by the Bucks were due to Grant Williams, Tatum and/or Brown crying to the refs and not getting back on defense, and led directly to the Bucks have extra man advantage and an easy basket. 

cracks me up the overflow of Celtics love in here now because they were physical and fouled the crap out of KD to beat the Nets. Funny how all the love still comes pouring into Tatum, and the reality is he is shooting below average in basically all categories this series

 
and please do a mini-blow up of this Sixers team. they are looking like they already have tickets booked for the beaches, team is so far from a true competitor.....

 
Insein said:
Series over. Doc should be fired tomorrow. So not resign Harden. 

Apther disappointing season.
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unbelievable this team literally looks worse than last year's. all the hate poured on Ben certainly seems slight miscast. wish we had some of those picks back we pee'd away for Harden

 
sounds like Middleton will be back for the Eastern conf finals, if Bucks finish off C's. Really pretty crazy how the Bucks have been able to play like they have without Middleton

 
modogg said:
unbelievable this team literally looks worse than last year's. all the hate poured on Ben certainly seems slight miscast. wish we had some of those picks back we pee'd away for Harden
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Trade had to be made. You had to get rid of him and go for it. Now don't make it worse by resigning him. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
You really trust Morey to do that?
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will be fun to find out. i trust him more than Brand or Colagelo. they will have to do something, unless this Harden hamstring is a real issue. better to pull trigger now than watch team go .500 next year.

this team has zero fight right now which is really gross. i think something has to happen. no excuses really for this team to be this flat.

in defense of Embiid though, i think his body is just shot for the year. busted orbital bone, torn thumb ligament just catching up to the guy.

but no fight in the team needs something.

 
modogg said:
will be fun to find out. i trust him more than Brand or Colagelo. they will have to do something, unless this Harden hamstring is a real issue. better to pull trigger now than watch team go .500 next year.

this team has zero fight right now which is really gross. i think something has to happen. no excuses really for this team to be this flat.

in defense of Embiid though, i think his body is just shot for the year. busted orbital bone, torn thumb ligament just catching up to the guy.

but no fight in the team needs something.
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Obviously they aren't trading Embiid, so what else do they have that teams want that the 76ers will trade?

 
msudaisy26 said:
Obviously they aren't trading Embiid, so what else do they have that teams want that the 76ers will trade?
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really not much. can't trade Maxxey with his salary, and nothing else will move the needle that much. so we will see if he has any magic to pull....

 
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