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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (5 Viewers)

I'm not a Rex fan, and just to show that I can't be objective, I would want him fired even if the Bills won a Super Bowl under him.  I don't know what it is, I just don't want him or his brother to be part of the organization so - I am really hoping he's gone.  I would prefer not to put anyone else on the staff in a position to be an "interim coach", so I would be ok with them holding onto him through the end of the season.  I really hope they begin looking outside the organization right away.

Whaley?  I don't know.  I heard if one stays they both stay.  If one goes they both go.  Who knows.   You have to have a franchise QB to win in this league. Very few teams have managed to win a Championship without one.  (Ravens with Dilfer, Redskins with Rypien, Bucs with Brad Johnson, Giants with Hosetetler).  I'm on the fence with Doug Whaley.  He's done some pretty solid things and he's pulled the trigger on some pretty costly draft day moves.  It seems to me that the Pegula's should have made a handful of quality contacts around the league in the two years that they can get some council on whether they should keep Whaley or move on.

Tyrod?  Tough call because I really like the kid.  I think he works hard, I think he has a desire to get to he next level and he's willing to do what it takes to get there but ultimately, he's working with the talent God gave him, and frankly I just don't think it's enough.   I think he's got some talent, I think think he's had some tough breaks, but deep down, I don't think he's the answer.  With some breaks going their way as a team, I think he's a guy that could get them to the playoffs, but long term, I don't think he has the swagger to get them to a championship and ultimately that's what it's all about.  I don't think he's a top line franchise QB and not worth the money that contract calls for him to be paid this Spring.

 
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I've said this before, but I don't know how people can have strong feelings one way or the other for Whaley. One of the biggest issues I see with this organization is that it's so, well, disorganized. Who has been calling the shots? Is it the Pegula's? Whaley? Brandon? Nix? Rex? You can't successfully run an organization like that, there needs to be a clear delineation of power.

What they need to do, IMO, is take the next few months to find a brilliant football mind that they trust to run their organization for the next several years, and give them carte blanche. That's easier said than done of course, and my fear is that the Pegula's aren't willing to do that even if they found that person, but when the owner isn't on the same page as the GM who isn't on the same page as the HC who isn't on the same page as......this is what you end up with.

 
I think this is easily a playoff team if Rex did not screw up the defense and they still brought in the same players on offense the last two years that they did.  The Watkins trade/pick was a horrible miss (just the trade really) but every GM misses on some picks.  

I am not a big fan of what Whaley has done at QB but I also don't know what his operating instructions were...was it to find a franchise QB at all costs...even though they had a potential QB in place (first EJ..then Tyrod)?  Or was he instructed to end the playoff drought, because the fan base wouldn't accept a reset with a 2-3 year window until success?

I also don't know how accountable he should be for Rex, if at all.

In my mind, the answers to these two questions determine if he should be fired.

Rex should be gone...and I am OK if it was today.  I never liked his hiring and he has completely lost this defense.  

 
Personally, I like Whaley. I think he's done a good job. His three major blemishes are trading so much for Sammy, hiring Rex, and bringing in Tyrod. I'm hoping all three of those things were semi-forced. The Tyrod thing by Rex. The Rex thing by the Pegula's. And, I think the Sammy trade was a bit of a knee-jerk. If I recall there were rumors that he needed to "win now" to save his job, so trading the future 1 wasn't seen as a big deal to him. He also had no idea Sammy would be underutilized and hurt all the time. Put a healthy Sammy on say the Packers, and I think most people would say he's worth 2 1sts.

Anyway, I'm hoping Whaley stays. He's made a lot of good moves.

 
Bringing in Tyrod was a great move (not sure if it was his), but giving him the extension definitely was a mistake, despite most people liking it at the time.

Plenty of both good and bad moves, just hard to pin them on anyone without knowing who is pulling the strings.

 
Bringing in Tyrod was a great move (not sure if it was his), but giving him the extension definitely was a mistake, despite most people liking it at the time.

Plenty of both good and bad moves, just hard to pin them on anyone without knowing who is pulling the strings.
Not sure you can say the extension was a mistake. They're not out that much if they want to move on.

 
Not sure you can say the extension was a mistake. They're not out that much if they want to move on.
They're out a heck of a lot more than they would be without the extension. I said it at the time, the contract is pro-Taylor in the beginning and pro-Bills at the end, but the end would have been re-negotiated higher if he panned out anyway. It was definitely a mistake.

 
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They're out a heck of a lot more than they would be without the extension, it was a mistake.
Only out of the owners' pockets for the bonuses, and this year's cap. It's not like they could have spent that cap money anywhere else. I suppose other extensions...

And, if they didn't give him something more fair to what he's worth, who knows how he would have played. He may have made a lot of "business decisions" this year, and not played as aggresively, or milked an injury.

 
They're out a heck of a lot more than they would be without the extension. I said it at the time, the contract is pro-Taylor in the beginning and pro-Bills at the end, but the end would have been re-negotiated higher if he panned out anyway. It was definitely a mistake.
Honestly don't remember all the details and Too lazy to look them up right now but they had to give Taylor anoter year to see if he would progress. Even if they overpaid a little bit that's the least of their problems.

 
Honestly don't remember all the details and Too lazy to look them up right now but they had to give Taylor anoter year to see if he would progress. Even if they overpaid a little bit that's the least of their problems.
What humpback has been saying is that he was under contract through 2016 for $350k or some really low number. So, they could have forced him to play that out, but who knows how it would have worked out. I wonder if he might have even held out...

 
Only out of the owners' pockets for the bonuses, and this year's cap. It's not like they could have spent that cap money anywhere else. I suppose other extensions...

And, if they didn't give him something more fair to what he's worth, who knows how he would have played. He may have made a lot of "business decisions" this year, and not played as aggresively, or milked an injury.
Nope- cap space rolls over, so even if they didn't use it this year they would have had it for next, and they could certainly use it. They also have an additional ~$3 mil in dead cap space beyond this year if they opt out.

He hasn't been good and they aren't making the playoffs, so it's not like it would have hurt them if he acted like an idiot and didn't give it his all. Besides, it's at least as likely that he would have been more motivated without the extension. 

Honestly don't remember all the details and Too lazy to look them up right now but they had to give Taylor anoter year to see if he would progress. Even if they overpaid a little bit that's the least of their problems.
No they didn't, he was under contract for 2016 already. Not saying it sunk the team, just that it was clearly a mistake.

 
Wow... It's totally a guess at this point, but Schefter on LeBatard just now said he thinks the price tag on Tony Romo is a 4th round pick that might conditionally become a 3rd.

That seems like a steal. Sure he's getting old, and has injury concerns, but I'd do that in a heartbeat.

 
Wow... It's totally a guess at this point, but Schefter on LeBatard just now said he thinks the price tag on Tony Romo is a 4th round pick that might conditionally become a 3rd.

That seems like a steal. Sure he's getting old, and has injury concerns, but I'd do that in a heartbeat.
Hell no. The guy is brittle as hell. I suspect his career is pretty much over. He may start a couple games again, but his body has clearly broken down.

 
Hell no. The guy is brittle as hell. I suspect his career is pretty much over. He may start a couple games again, but his body has clearly broken down.
You don't know that, though. It could be a bit of a fluke and he could just as likely play 2-3 more years at a pretty high level. Worth the risk at such a cheap price, IMO. What are the odds that a QB taken in the 3rd or 4th rounds pan out? Pretty low.

 
You don't know that, though. It could be a bit of a fluke and he could just as likely play 2-3 more years at a pretty high level. Worth the risk at such a cheap price, IMO. What are the odds that a QB taken in the 3rd or 4th rounds pan out? Pretty low.
You mean other than the guy that replaced Romo?

 
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No I mean:

Jacoby Brisett
Cody Kessler
Connor Cook
Cardale Jones
Garrett Grayson
Sean Mannion
Bryce Petty
Logan Thomas
Tom Savage
Mike Glennon
Matt Barkley
Ryan Nassib
Tyler Wilson
Landry Jones

That is the list of all QBs drafted in the 3rd or 4th rounds from 2013-2016 aside from Dak.

(2012 did have a couple hits in Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins.)

The odds are not good...

 
No I mean:

Jacoby Brisett
Cody Kessler
Connor Cook
Cardale Jones
Garrett Grayson
Sean Mannion
Bryce Petty
Logan Thomas
Tom Savage
Mike Glennon
Matt Barkley
Ryan Nassib
Tyler Wilson
Landry Jones

That is the list of all QBs drafted in the 3rd or 4th rounds from 2013-2016 aside from Dak.

(2012 did have a couple hits in Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins.)

The odds are not good...
To go back to 2000-2011...

Ryan Mallett
Colt McCoy
Mike Kafka
Stephen McGee
Kevin O'Connell
Trent Edwards
Charlie Whitehurst
Brodie Croyle
Charlie Frye
Andrew Walter
David Greene
Kyle Orton
Stefan LeFors
Matt Schaub
Luke McCown
Dave Ragone
Chris Simms
Seneca Wallace
Josh McCown
David Garrard
Rogan Davey
Chris Weinke
Sage Rosenfels
Jesse Palmer
Giovanni Carmazzi
Chris Redman

Again, that is the complete list. No strategic ommissions...



 

 
Why do fans continue to ignore the money aspect? This isn't MLB where it's "only money". The reason Romo doesn't have a ton of trade value, besides his age and injury history, is because of his cap situation.

 
Why do fans continue to ignore the money aspect? This isn't MLB where it's "only money". The reason Romo doesn't have a ton of trade value, besides his age and injury history, is because of his cap situation.
I'm pretty sure he's going to negotiate a new contract. Dallas can't keep him at his cap number to be a backup, so it's either get cut and get whatever he can get, or negotiate something ahead of time and be traded.

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
You don't know that, though. It could be a bit of a fluke and he could just as likely play 2-3 more years at a pretty high level. Worth the risk at such a cheap price, IMO. What are the odds that a QB taken in the 3rd or 4th rounds pan out? Pretty low.
I'm not Bills' fan, but as close as they seem to be (for playoffs, not necessarily Super Bowl) I think it would be well worth it. That doesn't preclude them from looking for a long term solution and with McCoy still playing very well (but aging) and a potential star in Watkins with some other decent pieces that could be one of the top offenses in the NFL.

Romo's recent injuries do seem a bit flukish and sometimes it's just bad luck. Before the last two seasons he was actually durable. Does anyone think his bones (collar bone and vertebrae) are actually getting more brittle at 36/37 years old? It likely just seems that way. 

 
Why do fans continue to ignore the money aspect? This isn't MLB where it's "only money". The reason Romo doesn't have a ton of trade value, besides his age and injury history, is because of his cap situation.
I think everyone knows that any trade is contingent on Romo renegotiating his contract. I suppose he may be unreasonable about it, but he's made good money and seems to want to prove he can still play. He also likely has a cushy analyst job waiting for him the day after he retires so he could play for $12-15MM a year over the next 2-3 seasons to get something done. The Cowboys couldn't even take the cap hit by cutting or trading him at his salary so he'd be stuck behind Dak otherwise.

 
I think everyone knows that any trade is contingent on Romo renegotiating his contract. I suppose he may be unreasonable about it, but he's made good money and seems to want to prove he can still play. He also likely has a cushy analyst job waiting for him the day after he retires so he could play for $12-15MM a year over the next 2-3 seasons to get something done. The Cowboys couldn't even take the cap hit by cutting or trading him at his salary so he'd be stuck behind Dak otherwise.
Correct. And because he would need to renegotiate his contract, he can pretty much dictate where he goes. I'm not sure Buffalo will be high up on his list, but it depends on suitors. I really hope the Bills are aggressive with getting him.

 
I think everyone knows that any trade is contingent on Romo renegotiating his contract. I suppose he may be unreasonable about it, but he's made good money and seems to want to prove he can still play. He also likely has a cushy analyst job waiting for him the day after he retires so he could play for $12-15MM a year over the next 2-3 seasons to get something done. The Cowboys couldn't even take the cap hit by cutting or trading him at his salary so he'd be stuck behind Dak otherwise.
He is playing for 14m next year under his current contract. If traded he will count 19.6m against DAL's salary cap, If kept 24.7m. Salary in 2018 19.5m, 2019 20.5m

 
I'm pretty sure he's going to negotiate a new contract. Dallas can't keep him at his cap number to be a backup, so it's either get cut and get whatever he can get, or negotiate something ahead of time and be traded.
Dallas absolutely can keep him at his cap number to be a backup- they'd only save ~$5 mil by getting rid of him (it's the same whether he's cut or traded), and having that security is worth way more than $5 mil. Then you have to factor in what it would cost to bring in his replacement, which could easily be more than $5 mil for anyone half way decent.

I think everyone knows that any trade is contingent on Romo renegotiating his contract. I suppose he may be unreasonable about it, but he's made good money and seems to want to prove he can still play. He also likely has a cushy analyst job waiting for him the day after he retires so he could play for $12-15MM a year over the next 2-3 seasons to get something done. The Cowboys couldn't even take the cap hit by cutting or trading him at his salary so he'd be stuck behind Dak otherwise.
His contract isn't bad for a new team- it's only $14 mil next year, $19.5 the next and $20.5 in 2019, and I don't think any of it is guaranteed. It's tougher on Dallas only because they've already restructured twice to free up cap space in earlier years. See above re the cap space, they don't save much next year by getting rid of him because of those restructurings.

He's probably going to insist on re-doing his deal with a new team so he has guaranteed money, and that can help spread the cap hit around so it won't be as bad next year, but it has to be accounted for at some point. I suppose anything is possible, but I don't see him agreeing to leave the only team he's ever known, with his age and injury history, to go be one of the lowest paid starting QBs in the league on another team. I'd still take a run at him, but you're going to have to pay him, and that's a factor (especially when you foolishly decided to pay Tyrod more).

 
He is playing for 14m next year under his current contract. If traded he will count 19.6m against DAL's salary cap, If kept 24.7m. Salary in 2018 19.5m, 2019 20.5m
Ouch... Will renegotiating a new contract help with that hit to Dallas? That's a big hit for them. 

 
Ouch... Will renegotiating a new contract help with that hit to Dallas? That's a big hit for them. 
Don't think so, it's all accumulated bonuses, I don't think you can magic those off the books somehow.

But on the positive side they do save 5m by trading him, and the new team gets a clean slate. Nothing is guaranteed (although obviously the new conract he signs will have new guaranteed money)

 
If you want to go after a QB, then go after AJ McCarron of the Bengals?  He's NFL ready and he'll be cheap. 

According to spotrac.com, "A.J. McCarron signed a 4 year, $2,401,652 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $181,652 signing bonus, $181,652 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $600,413. In 2016, McCarron will earn a base salary of $600,000. McCarron has a cap hit of $645,413 while his dead money value is $90,826."

I can't see how and why some of you guys feel Romo would be a good fit here.  With this crappy O-line? He won't last two games. Sure the Bills will upgrade the O-line but I'd rather have a cheaper and more mobile QB like AJ.

 
If you want to go after a QB, then go after AJ McCarron of the Bengals?  He's NFL ready and he'll be cheap. 

According to spotrac.com, "A.J. McCarron signed a 4 year, $2,401,652 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $181,652 signing bonus, $181,652 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $600,413. In 2016, McCarron will earn a base salary of $600,000. McCarron has a cap hit of $645,413 while his dead money value is $90,826."

I can't see how and why some of you guys feel Romo would be a good fit here.  With this crappy O-line? He won't last two games. Sure the Bills will upgrade the O-line but I'd rather have a cheaper and more mobile QB like AJ.
But would aj want to go to the bills?  I doubt it

 
Gary Grambling making a good point about Whaley's crappy first round picks -

The most damning evidence against Whaley comes from the first round draft picks, though. Whaley has always been good finding diamonds in the rough but hitting on top picks has not been his specialty.

“Their first-round picks over the last four years—EJ Manuel, Watkins, the pick they traded to get Watkins, and Lawson—have combined to start six games in 2016.”
 
The leak last night to Adam Schefter that Rex is getting axed at the end of the year is the greatest example as to why this is such a bush league organization  Rex hasn't been great, but he hasn't been a complete disaster either.  He doesn't deserve to twist in the wind like this at all.  

 
The leak last night to Adam Schefter that Rex is getting axed at the end of the year is the greatest example as to why this is such a bush league organization  Rex hasn't been great, but he hasn't been a complete disaster either.  He doesn't deserve to twist in the wind like this at all.  
No, I'm tired of Rex. He runs his mouth, he makes terrible in-game decisions, his teams are undisciplined, he ruined what was a great defense, etc.

BUT, there's just no way that Whaley and Russ Brandon should be allowed to skate. Whaley has 6 years now and zero results. Brandon has had a lot of power for a long time and they've been terrible the whole time. Time to blow it up. Clean house and air out the stink of losing.

 
No, I'm tired of Rex. He runs his mouth, he makes terrible in-game decisions, his teams are undisciplined, he ruined what was a great defense, etc.

BUT, there's just no way that Whaley and Russ Brandon should be allowed to skate. Whaley has 6 years now and zero results. Brandon has had a lot of power for a long time and they've been terrible the whole time. Time to blow it up. Clean house and air out the stink of losing.
You don't hang your coach out to dry like that with a month left in the season.  That's ####ing ridiculous.  No excuse.  

And you keep railing on Brandon, but he has NOTHING to do w/the on-field product.  He handles the business side of the organization - which has grown materially over the last ten years.  Not sure why his head has to roll. 

 
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You don't hang your coach out to dry like that with a month left in the season.  That's ####ing ridiculous.  No excuse.  

And you keep railing on Brandon, but he has NOTHING to do w/the on-field product.  He handles the business side of the organization - which has grown materially over the last ten years.  Not sure why his head has to roll. 
He has had the ear of the owner for a long long time. I can guarantee you that he has had way more influence on the product on the field than you think.

Jason La Canfora essentially said as much when he said that behind the scenes there is total "buffoonery" and that the Pegulas need to stop listening to Whaley and Brandon and talk to some people outside the organization who aren't just interested in maintaining their own jobs. 

 
He has had the ear of the owner for a long long time. I can guarantee you that he has had way more influence on the product on the field than you think.

Jason La Canfora essentially said as much when he said that behind the scenes there is total "buffoonery" and that the Pegulas need to stop listening to Whaley and Brandon and talk to some people outside the organization who aren't just interested in maintaining their own jobs. 
There isn't much evidence of Brandon having an influence of what's on the field since the Pegulas have been here (and likely since Gailey was the GM).  That's simply the facts.  

And Whaley's job description is to tell the owners who should hire/fire the coach.  He's the ####### GM.  He is the ONE guy in the organization that should do that... and yet it was THE PEGULAS who made the decision to hire Rex.  If you're going to be pissed, be pissed at the owners for this mess. 

 
Rex absolutely deserves to get fired- the team is arguably worse than it was when he took over despite having more on-field talent.

 
Rex absolutely deserves to get fired- the team is arguably worse than it was when he took over despite having more on-field talent.
I don't know yet whether I agree with that decision or not, but if you've already made up your mind, don't leak it to the press like this with this much left in the season.  That's ridiculous.  

 
I don't know yet whether I agree with that decision or not, but if you've already made up your mind, don't leak it to the press like this with this much left in the season.  That's ridiculous.  
He ruined the only good thing the team had going for it, and it's supposed to be his strong suit- he sucks.

Where are you seeing that they leaked it to the press?

 
He ruined the only good thing the team had going for it, and it's supposed to be his strong suit- he sucks.

Where are you seeing that they leaked it to the press?
Yes, someone from outside the organization could have leaked it, but what is the likelihood of that in this case?  The players are still behind him, so it must have come from inside.  

 
Yes, someone from outside the organization could have leaked it, but what is the likelihood of that in this case?  The players are still behind him, so it must have come from inside.  
I have no idea, I thought maybe you did which is why I asked but obviously you're just speculating. Really it could have come from anywhere, or perhaps there is no "source", it's just a writer speculating on what looks pretty likely to happen so he can be "first".

 
I have no idea, I thought maybe you did which is why I asked but obviously you're just speculating. Really it could have come from anywhere, or perhaps there is no "source", it's just a writer speculating on what looks pretty likely to happen so he can be "first".
Adam Schefter or any reporter from a major news site doesn't put a story out like that without at least one source.  They don't put stuff like that out as conjecture.  Come on.

 
Adam Schefter or any reporter from a major news site doesn't put a story out like that without at least one source.  They don't put stuff like that out as conjecture.  Come on.
Still have no evidence that it's coming from inside the house? I agree that the organization is a mess starting at the very top, but it seems really silly to be making a big deal out of this, especially with zero evidence that they were behind it.

Rex sucks, he's getting fired, who cares if he gets the news today or a few weeks from now? Heck, he could be the "source" himself since he already knows about it according to the source.

 
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If you want to go after a QB, then go after AJ McCarron of the Bengals?  He's NFL ready and he'll be cheap. 

According to spotrac.com, "A.J. McCarron signed a 4 year, $2,401,652 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $181,652 signing bonus, $181,652 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $600,413. In 2016, McCarron will earn a base salary of $600,000. McCarron has a cap hit of $645,413 while his dead money value is $90,826."

I can't see how and why some of you guys feel Romo would be a good fit here.  With this crappy O-line? He won't last two games. Sure the Bills will upgrade the O-line but I'd rather have a cheaper and more mobile QB like AJ.
AJ has shown me nothing that would leave me to believe he is a starting QB in this league. And this crappy OL leads the league in rushing yards before contact. I know pass blocking is different. But Tyrod does hold the wall way too long and move around which generates some of those pressures. I can't count how many times he runs out of bounds behind the LOS for a sack as well.

 
OC Zed said:
I don't know yet whether I agree with that decision or not, but if you've already made up your mind, don't leak it to the press like this with this much left in the season.  That's ridiculous.  
This happens all the time. There's always speculation that this is going to happen. La Canfora is wrong way more often about the Bills than he is right. I don't know why this is so upsetting to you. He deserves to twist in the wind. He came in here guaranteeing playoffs and the best defense the NFL has ever seen. He's done nothing and the defense has gotten worse under his watch. He's full of hot air. I mean, when you publicly admit you were caught off guard by your opponent (Steelers) in how they were going to attack you and you respond by calling defensive play calls that the team hasn't practiced, what else do you need to support the notion that he's inept and living off his success from 5-6 years ago? He didn't even build those early teams, so you could argue that he inherited a team and took the credit for its success.

OC Zed said:
Adam Schefter or any reporter from a major news site doesn't put a story out like that without at least one source.  They don't put stuff like that out as conjecture.  Come on.
Schefter is wrong a LOT as well. And the source could be someone very low on the totem pole. Relying on the national insiders for Bills information is never a smart move. The local beat writers have the scoop on what's going on more than any national media do. Remember, the national guys don't spend much time on our team and so they aren't very accurate in covering us. I believe it was Vic or Jay, I forget which. But whoever it was on Twitter last night said he talked to 3 sources inside the Bills who he trusts very much and all 3 stated that the Pegulas have not made up their mind on Rex's future yet. If that's true, you can calm down about how ridiculous all of this is. 

 
AJ has shown me nothing that would leave me to believe he is a starting QB in this league. And this crappy OL leads the league in rushing yards before contact. I know pass blocking is different. But Tyrod does hold the wall way too long and move around which generates some of those pressures. I can't count how many times he runs out of bounds behind the LOS for a sack as well.
Agree on AJ. That guy screams 'quality career backup,' ala. Charlie Batch or Bruce Gradowski. I'd love to have him holding a clipboard or starting a couple games, but he'll never lead a team 16 games to the promised land.

 

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