Does the revenge game narrative for Gore matter? He took a lot of crap for "holding back" Drake last year from a lot of talking heads.
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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
If the game goes like everyone expects, more Singletary. Hopefully the Bills get a nice lead early and let the rookie go to work.
I see where IK is coming from, if the game is closer, I can see the Bills trusting Gore to carry the load and put the game away. But if the Bills get a nice lead, I think McDermott will give Gore’s legs a well deserved rest and let Singletary loose.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is actually a viable possibility too. We need to be firing on all cylinders next week against Philadelphia, and McD might want to use this as a tune-up for guys like Singletary, Kroft, etc.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Cover 1 is great.
I think he’s real close to being a very good QB. He needs the game to slow down a bit more and to make some better decisions with the ball. I think the game will slow down as he just plays more and studies film more. It’s just a question as to whether he can learn to make better decisions without becoming indecisive and hesitant. He has developed a lot faster than I think most people expected. He just needs to stop making so many really dumb plays.
shadrap
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I think I would watch a movie where he and Ed Oliver just talk to one another for 90 minutes.GroveDiesel said:
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Fitz had a great game today. Gesicki looks like a monster if they can get him the ball consistently. Walton was also impressive, as was the Dolphins OL. The Bills DL ate the Titans alive and pressured Mariota all day two weeks ago....not so much today.
Very happy to see Allen have a big second half.
I don't think the defense was quite as bad as we make them out to be, but I saw a lot of missed arm tackles - several from Hughes on that last drive, Edmunds on Walton a few times, etc. I thought Wallace rebounded well from being eaten alive in the first half, and made several nice plays in the second half. Tre White was obviously fantastic. I guess if you're gonna pick a game to play like crap for 3 quarters, this was the game to do it.
Very happy to see Allen have a big second half.
I don't think the defense was quite as bad as we make them out to be, but I saw a lot of missed arm tackles - several from Hughes on that last drive, Edmunds on Walton a few times, etc. I thought Wallace rebounded well from being eaten alive in the first half, and made several nice plays in the second half. Tre White was obviously fantastic. I guess if you're gonna pick a game to play like crap for 3 quarters, this was the game to do it.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Pretty much everybody on this team seemed rusty in the first half. That's on coaching IMO. McDermott did not have this team ready to go.
The offense snapped out of its funk in the second half and played pretty well afterward. Not a big fan of running the ball on third and 7 (or whatever it was) toward the end. It's more important to get the first down and maintain possession than to take another few seconds off the clock. The play-calling in general was just off the whole game except for the long drive. Not sure what to make of that.
The D was shaky all the way through the game. It took Fitz something like 7 minutes to cover those 20 yards into the end zone. How do you allow that? I know Fitz >>> Rosen, but come on. I'll write this one off as an aberration, but I didn't think there was any chance that they would put up 21 on this unit.
The offense snapped out of its funk in the second half and played pretty well afterward. Not a big fan of running the ball on third and 7 (or whatever it was) toward the end. It's more important to get the first down and maintain possession than to take another few seconds off the clock. The play-calling in general was just off the whole game except for the long drive. Not sure what to make of that.
The D was shaky all the way through the game. It took Fitz something like 7 minutes to cover those 20 yards into the end zone. How do you allow that? I know Fitz >>> Rosen, but come on. I'll write this one off as an aberration, but I didn't think there was any chance that they would put up 21 on this unit.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
I have a choice of starting Josh Allen or Mason Rudolph this week in a must win game. I felt pretty comfortable in putting Allen in there, but just looked at the weather forecast in Buffalo for Sunday and it looks crappy; wind and rain. Any homers have an opinion on Allen's play in wet/windy weather? Not sure if I'm overthinking it, but for a QB who hasn't been exactly lighting it up in good weather, the forecast has me questioning my decision a bit.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Depends on how windy and how rainy. Lots of either would be tough. But some rain usually benefits the offense as wide receivers knowing where they’re running to and when they’re cutting allows them to keep their footing better than defenders who are reacting.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm pretty pessimistic about this game. Allen has the arm to throw in windy conditions and in theory our receivers have an edge in slippery conditions, but we're probably going to have to rely on our passing offense to get a win today, and I'm just not confident at all in having to rely on that unit. Hopefully I'm wrong of course.GroveDiesel said:
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Agreed, especially with his much wind they’re calling for. Calling for 25-35 MPH winds with gusts up to 40. I don’t care how big your arm is, balls up in the air down the field with that much wind aren’t going where you want them.
The Eagles are in desperation mode and the weather plays into all of their strengths. Eagles by a touchdown.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Well, I've been saying that the Bills are "pretenders" until they show they can beat a competent team. This was a big litmus test week for me. Desperate opponent, pretty good team that's struggling. Home game. Show whether or not you're for real.
Spoiler: they're not for real.
Spoiler: they're not for real.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
If you want to feel a little better, turn the Browns/Pats game on and realize we could be Browns fans.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Unfortunately, I feel the same way. Philly was desperate, and they're better than their record suggests. Add in weather that played to our disadvantage, and I figured that this was an incoming loss. If it was just that, it would be no big deal. But our supposed "elite" defense got completely undressed by a fairly straightforward offensive gameplan. Philadelphia wasn't beating us with brilliant offensive thinking -- it was just an old-fashioned case of their guys beating our guys. This comes a week after our defense also looking bad against Miami. Miami!
Our offense has gone from abominable last year to about average this year. That's a big step up and we should be happy about that, but it's important to remember that while the offense is much improved, it's still just average. The defense was supposed to be the unit that kept us in games, and they lost us this one. That moves us into "pretender" territory, because nobody would seriously argue that this is a playoff-caliber offense.
I still like our playoff chances because of the schedule, but this rebuild still has a ways to go.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I don't disagree with any of this. Make no mistake about it, I think they are still very much in the playoff hunt given how weak their schedule is and the general state of the rest of the AFC. I am still very pleased with McDermott and Beane, and Josh Allen - while merely average - is far and away better than I thought he would be at this point in his career.
That said, in my mind, there were a few litmus test games on the schedule this year. Week 1 at the Jets, who were generally expected to be better than the Bills with a similar 2nd-year QB. At the Browns a few weeks from now. Home to the Ravens and at the Steelers in December. Today's game. Forget about the Patriots games and at Dallas on Thanksgiving - those games are penciled in as losses. These games are against teams that should generally be at the Bills level. If you want to be mentioned in that just-above-average echelon of teams who are genuine Wild Card caliber teams, you need to prove yourself in some of these games against teams at the same level. They absolutely did that in week 1 against the Jets, a game they controlled throughout but shot themselves in the foot repeatedly. But it turns out now that the Jets aren't all they were cracked up to be. Today was that second test. And not only did they not win, they failed the test miserably.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Also, I will give the defense a little bit of a pass given how well they've been playing, but obviously they were not good today. My main concern is that two weeks in a row now, the defense has given up backbreaking long drives where the other team just methodically pounded the ball on the ground. The book is out on how to beat the Bills defense.
That said, they've singlehandedly kept the Bills in games this year when the offense sputtered. The guys on WGR were saying postgame today - and I didn't go vet it but I trust them - that the Bills didn't get a single first down between that 3rd quarter touchdown drive and the final play of the game. That is not acceptable in the NFL, especially when the defense is giving you underneath throws. Unless you're the 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens, your defense is not going to win every game for you. Hell, the D completely shut down the Eagles for 28 minutes in the first half, only to have the offense fumble the ball away inside their own 25. This game was not over, even at 24-13. The Bills O floundered, and the D forced a crucial 3-and-out end the 3rd. Good NFL offenses are capable of withstanding the storm and putting together a comeback drive to keep themselves in it. Maybe it was the weather, but the Bills immediately went 3-and-out on the next possession. Just not good enough.
That said, they've singlehandedly kept the Bills in games this year when the offense sputtered. The guys on WGR were saying postgame today - and I didn't go vet it but I trust them - that the Bills didn't get a single first down between that 3rd quarter touchdown drive and the final play of the game. That is not acceptable in the NFL, especially when the defense is giving you underneath throws. Unless you're the 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens, your defense is not going to win every game for you. Hell, the D completely shut down the Eagles for 28 minutes in the first half, only to have the offense fumble the ball away inside their own 25. This game was not over, even at 24-13. The Bills O floundered, and the D forced a crucial 3-and-out end the 3rd. Good NFL offenses are capable of withstanding the storm and putting together a comeback drive to keep themselves in it. Maybe it was the weather, but the Bills immediately went 3-and-out on the next possession. Just not good enough.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Also, apparently Rich Eisen said in today's pregame that the Bills are playing the Patriots on Saturday in week 16. No one knows if he misspoke or if they already know that the game has been flexed and he accidentally leaked it before the formal announcement. Looking at the 5 potential flex games, the Rams/Niners looks like a pretty solid bet. Raiders/Chargers could have playoff implications. Lions/Broncos might both be out of it.
Bills/Patriots and Texans/Bucs are the other two games. Patriots and Bucs are the only 2 teams in this group of 5 that are east coast and would make sense for a 1 PM kickoff. Gotta think this game gets flexed, no? Just hope the Bills are still playing for something at that point.
Bills/Patriots and Texans/Bucs are the other two games. Patriots and Bucs are the only 2 teams in this group of 5 that are east coast and would make sense for a 1 PM kickoff. Gotta think this game gets flexed, no? Just hope the Bills are still playing for something at that point.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
So watching the Browns lose by 14 to the 7-0 team made you feel better about losing by 18 to the 3-4 team? Interesting take.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Wonder if Beanne actually tried to pull some moves or if he’s happy with the team and locker room the way it is.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The next time Allen puts the ball on the ground Beane should bench him for a series or rest of quarter. The fumbling is entirely out of hand. He is averaging around a fumble per game in his career. He has been exceptionally lucky this year as they have recovered like 80%+ of his fumbles when 50% is much more typical. I’m glad they won and he had a decent game, but the fumbling just has to stop.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I mean, he had 2 fumbles. Losing either of those could have made a huge difference in the game. He has done a fantastic job of eliminating the mind- numbing throws (no INTs in 3 games!), but those fumbles really need to stop.
The other thing that needs to change is Daboll’s playcalling. He needs to be more flexible and make better adjustments. The Bills ran the ball great for one drive and apparently decided that’s what they would do all game. When Washington loaded the box and continually shut the run down, they...kept running...for a total of 39 runs versus 20 passes despite the passing game working much better than the running game.
And all of those short yardage Frank Gore runs up the gut...ugh.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Seriously, we won this game pretty easily. We let Washington hang around longer that we all would like, but the outcome of the game was never really in doubt. It's better just to enjoy the win.
Next week's game is much tougher than the records suggest.
Socrates11
Footballguy
Daboll seems to be falling into a pattern of thinking he can impose his will on the situation and therefore being too cute by half, instead of thinking outside of the box and attempting to maximize his offense's potential. Get's very frustrating. And I agree about his tunnel vision on going big with Frank Gore. Fools no one. Hopefully he learned when he spread it out and gave it to Singletary. Guess we'll see next week. Cleveland is bad but they have talent. It will jump up and beat a good team or two before the season is over. Hopefully it's not us.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Bills opened at 2.5 - 3 point underdogs in Vegas, so clearly the oddsmakers see it as a pick'em on a neutral field.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm starting to come around to the contrarian view that Daboll is fine and people are going to complain no matter what he does. We've all been #####ing and moaning about him getting too cute around the goal line. But when he hands the ball off to Frank Gore three times in a row, we ##### about that too. It basically comes down to this:
Players Successfully Execute the Play that is Called: Daboll Good!
Players Fail to Execute the Play that is Called: Daboll Sux0r!
I mean, yeah, I was frustrated that they made gaining a single foot look like a Herculean struggle, but what's the guy supposed to do? He would get roasted on any unsuccessful play in that situation.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
My two cents on where the Bills stand at the halfway point.
I thought yesterday was fine, a methodical, grinding win. They never really looked threatened and you never felt that the Redskins were going to get anything going offensively. Peterson looked good, another foreboding problem with the Bills failure to stop the run. Allen was efficient....wasn't asked to do too much, and did exactly what was needed to efficiently get the job done.
I still have my serious doubts about this team. They're gonna get run over by Chubb, Elliott, Ingram, etc. down the stretch. I think we can safely pencil in the Ravens game as a loss now, plus the previously mentioned Patriots and Cowboys games. 10-6 will probably be a safe bet to get them into the playoffs, but that means they've gotta go 4-1 against Cleveland, Denver, Pittsburgh, Miami, and the Jets. The Dolphins and Jets have already both almost-beaten the Bills once, and the Dolphins have looked much improved these past few weeks. Pittsburgh is getting hot and has won 3 straight. Cleveland is still better than their record suggests, and they just lost to Denver, so obviously Denver isn't that bad.
I could easily see a total collapse here down the stretch. Get smacked around by a desperate Browns team next week, and then a demoralizing "wheels fall off" loss in Miami next week to send this team to the skids. They're still pretenders at this point, to me.
I thought yesterday was fine, a methodical, grinding win. They never really looked threatened and you never felt that the Redskins were going to get anything going offensively. Peterson looked good, another foreboding problem with the Bills failure to stop the run. Allen was efficient....wasn't asked to do too much, and did exactly what was needed to efficiently get the job done.
I still have my serious doubts about this team. They're gonna get run over by Chubb, Elliott, Ingram, etc. down the stretch. I think we can safely pencil in the Ravens game as a loss now, plus the previously mentioned Patriots and Cowboys games. 10-6 will probably be a safe bet to get them into the playoffs, but that means they've gotta go 4-1 against Cleveland, Denver, Pittsburgh, Miami, and the Jets. The Dolphins and Jets have already both almost-beaten the Bills once, and the Dolphins have looked much improved these past few weeks. Pittsburgh is getting hot and has won 3 straight. Cleveland is still better than their record suggests, and they just lost to Denver, so obviously Denver isn't that bad.
I could easily see a total collapse here down the stretch. Get smacked around by a desperate Browns team next week, and then a demoralizing "wheels fall off" loss in Miami next week to send this team to the skids. They're still pretenders at this point, to me.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
My expectation before the season started was that I wanted this team to be competitive in every game and seriously contend for a wild card berth. So far, that's basically what they've done. If they're going to make the playoffs, they need to beat the teams they're "supposed" to beat, but to their credit they've been doing that this year. There is also some reason to hope for the offense to improve now that Singletary is getting more work.
I think the playoffs are basically 50-50 at this point. This week's game should tell us a lot.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Are Browns fans happy after that game? That was two awful teams fighting to see who was worse.
Also, the same exact play that I posted that after almost, and very well potentially maybe should have, cost the Browns this game too.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
It’s clear that the offense is totally inept at this point. Allen hasn’t become good enough and Daboll is a terrible play caller.
Yeah, the defense has some issues, but in today’s NFL you need to be scoring 20+ a game at minimum and the Bills simply aren’t doing that.
In addition, while I love McDermott’s demeanor and his ability to motivate and coach guys up, he is a terrible game day manager. He is constantly screwing up situational decisions and hurting the team. Timeouts on defense after coming out of the 2 minute warning, playing for a long FG to tie rather than to get closer or win, strange challenges, on and on.
Most of this stuff is stuff that anyone that has played a couple dozen games of Madden can easily do correctly. It’s not brain surgery and yet he constantly messes it up.
Yeah, the defense has some issues, but in today’s NFL you need to be scoring 20+ a game at minimum and the Bills simply aren’t doing that.
In addition, while I love McDermott’s demeanor and his ability to motivate and coach guys up, he is a terrible game day manager. He is constantly screwing up situational decisions and hurting the team. Timeouts on defense after coming out of the 2 minute warning, playing for a long FG to tie rather than to get closer or win, strange challenges, on and on.
Most of this stuff is stuff that anyone that has played a couple dozen games of Madden can easily do correctly. It’s not brain surgery and yet he constantly messes it up.
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
The Duff Man
Footballguy
Looking at the schedule for some of the teams chasing them, there is a very real chance the Bills do not make the playoffs.
They are going to have to find a win out of NE, Bal, Dal or Pit and I struggle to see how they are going to do that.
They are going to have to find a win out of NE, Bal, Dal or Pit and I struggle to see how they are going to do that.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yep. Pretenders.pretenders until proven otherwise.
The defense is not as good as advertised, and the offense is at least a couple of players away. And we need a P and PK.
coyote5
Footballguy
Agreed, I never punt on 4th and 39 from my 15 yd line, hail Mary is too strong. not sure when these NFL bozos are gonna get with the times
DallasDMac
Footballguy
No idea. Didn't see the game. Just thought it was a pretty classic example of karma.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Zero hype for this week, not a single post in this thread since last Sunday.
Common consensus in Buffalo is that the wheels are about to fall off and this team has no shot to make the playoffs. The Dolphins are a trendy pick from the talking heads this week.
Will the Bills show up today in convincing fashion?
Common consensus in Buffalo is that the wheels are about to fall off and this team has no shot to make the playoffs. The Dolphins are a trendy pick from the talking heads this week.
Will the Bills show up today in convincing fashion?
daveR
Footballguy
I see the Bills as a solid but not elite team. If they continue to progress on their current trajectory, their time is coming. Will they look elite this week? I doubt it, but I think 90% of what they do will be positive and the game won't be in serious doubt at any point. Will the "wheels fall off"? Nope. Not this week, not this season.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I think that we kept seeing these tight games against bad teams and figured the offense would eventually break out and the team would really take off. Instead, the offense continued to limp along and the defense’s cracks continued to grow into flaws that have made them seem vulnerable and exploitable.Steve Tasker said:
Overall, the most difficult thing for me has not been the concern about playoffs for this year looking somewhat threatened, but not seeing the progress in Allen or the great in game coaching to have confidence in the Bills taking a leap into contender status going forward. The concern was less about this year and more about their future potential. That’s pretty dis-heartening.
Bills off to a decent start here today. Hopefully this can be a “get right” game and built some momentum and confidence going into a pretty tough stretch.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Gotta say, pretty convincing win today.
Two special teams lapses kept the Dolphins in it, but the Bills looked in control throughout. Allen was great, Brown was great, defense was on point.
I noticed the Bills blitzing a lot more than usual today, but I also noticed McDermott with a play sheet repeatedly on the sidelines. Am I off, or is that a new thing for them? It looked like he was calling plays at times, but also looked like Frazier was calling plays at times. I could've sworn Frazier was calling all defensive plays prior to this week. Considering how conservative the defense has been, and that McDermott comes from the aggressive Jim Johnson school, I'm alright with it, at least in a game like this.
Just gotta keep winning, that's all that matters.
Two special teams lapses kept the Dolphins in it, but the Bills looked in control throughout. Allen was great, Brown was great, defense was on point.
I noticed the Bills blitzing a lot more than usual today, but I also noticed McDermott with a play sheet repeatedly on the sidelines. Am I off, or is that a new thing for them? It looked like he was calling plays at times, but also looked like Frazier was calling plays at times. I could've sworn Frazier was calling all defensive plays prior to this week. Considering how conservative the defense has been, and that McDermott comes from the aggressive Jim Johnson school, I'm alright with it, at least in a game like this.
Just gotta keep winning, that's all that matters.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This ended up being a good call.oswizzle said:
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I was wrong about Frank Gore. I was totally befuddled and criticized the signing at the time and he has proven me wrong. He has run well for the most part. He has been a good finisher helping grinding out wins. He picked up the slack when Singletary got hurt.
But more than anything else, he has been true leadership. On a day where he became the 3rd all time leading rusher in NFL history, this was Gore after the game:
Link
On a day he became the 3rd leading rusher, he elevated the rookie and made sure that reporters gave some respect to the rookie on his first 100 yard game. That’s true leadership. That’s pure class. So glad the Bills signed Gore.
But more than anything else, he has been true leadership. On a day where he became the 3rd all time leading rusher in NFL history, this was Gore after the game:
Link
On a day he became the 3rd leading rusher, he elevated the rookie and made sure that reporters gave some respect to the rookie on his first 100 yard game. That’s true leadership. That’s pure class. So glad the Bills signed Gore.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Also, props to Cody Ford. He has struggled with better pass rushers quite a bit, but Von Miller was almost a non-factor today. I’m not sure if the Bills gave him extra help or anything, but there weren’t many problems coming from that direction today.
themeistersinger
Footballguy
I was thrilled when the Bills signed Gore. Obviously wasn't expecting him to lead the league in yardage, but for everything you said above, he was an absolute home run. Also look at some of Matt Waldman's columns last year when he showed Gore's and Peterson's running ability - neither guy has the explosion they once had, but they understand how the play is designed and where to expect to find the creases. And that's just one of the things a guy like Gore can pass on to a guy like Singletary. Plus being one of the all time greats at simple professionalism. You can't overestimate the value of that in the locker room.
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