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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
OC Zed
Footballguy
People who think this was a 10-11 win team are not dealing with reality, in my opinion.People keep throwing out the 9-7 record as some kind of positive and it is garbage.The local media was absurd this past season given how well the team was playing and how poorly they have played in the last 15 years. Given those parameters, yes, I can understand Marrone being disillusioned with the local environment.Seriously? Marrone was apparently ticked off at being criticized in the Buffalo media. How do you think he's likely to fare in NYC?
I think Marrone will do exceedingly well with the Jets... assuming, of course, he's on the same page as the GM.
But I think the real question is whether the NFL is ready for a Doug Marrone -- Geno Smith pairing. Will scoreboard operators be able to keep up?
Morevover, Marrone is a New Yorker and understands that the local media there comes with that territory (people don't - and shouldn't - expect it in Buffalo). And I can guarantee you that the NYC media would have been better to Marrone with a 9-7 Jets record than the Western NY media was. His surliness will not sour people there... if he's putting up winning seasons with a bad QB, he'll be all the more beloved for being a grouch (see Bill Parcels).
The Marrone haters think he took a 10 or 11 win team and DROPPED it to a 9 win team with a long list of incompetencies that have been well documented here.
The media believes this also.
So the fact that it is the best record in a decade, or that it was a three win improvement is completely irrelevant to these people.
Now if you actually think he coached UP a 7 or 8 win team I am not sure what to tell you. He most certainly did not do that on the offensive side of the ball.
disagree
but I'm not only talking about him getting hired as a DC. I'm assuming he wants another shot at a HC job. I guess it would depend on how the exit in Buffalo was handled, but not sure why you think quitting while under contract is such a non-issue.
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If he were to leave for a coordinator spot somewhere else, his reputation would all depend on how it was handled. Many times it's at least portrayed as a "mutual decision", in which case his reputation would be fine. If he puts up a big stink publicly and acts like a child, sure, then his reputation would be hurt.
I don't want to make it seems like I think it's likely that this is going to happen, I just think it's a possibility where others seem to think there's no chance at all. Also, this is only one of the ways he could leave- it's entirely plausible that whoever they bring in as HC would want to hire his own coordinators as well.
I don't think we're really disagreeing much here.
bottom line for me (and I'm sure most others too) is that I'd like to see him kept as a coordinator but wouldn't want him to become the new HC. If they can't find a way to keep him happy in his current role under a new HC, then that would be disappointing. We'll see how things go.
So let's think about this- how would you rank your preference, and where would you slot Schwartz in this ranking?
It's a bit scary, but when I really think about it, Schwartz is in the top half of my list of realistic candidates for HC right now.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I am giving McDaniel's a pass for his initial coaching situation, maybe he was not quite ready but I think he has the potential to be a very good coach who has tons of experience with successful teams and play-off situations. He also has worked under a hall of fame coach and with a hall of fame qb and unlike you I see that as a positive and I don't think that will hurt him going forward. Keep in mind when you say what has he done in his career he is only 38 years of age. He has a lot of coaching left in front of him.
I think McDaniels at some stage is going to be a steal of a head coach for someone in the league. He was 8 and 8 his rookie year as a coach and then things went south in his second year and was fired after a 3 and 9 start. It appeared he had to swallow some of his over confidence he had in his initial stint. But I really do think he will turn some team around and be good.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If I was choosing from that last, I would take Rex without batting an eye. Admittedly I'm not very familiar with some of the coordinators, but Ryan has proven himself to be a solid HC who fell victim to a gutter-level GM.
I know the defense is already our (current) strength and in the short run it makes more sense to bring in an offense guy and keep Schwartz to manage the D, but I'd rather have a guy who can be here for 10 years, and it's only natural that the O/D balance will fluctuate over that time.
Edit: Not McDaniels, please.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Remember the last couple of searches when people were declining interview requests? This is a welcome change of pace.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
It would be interesting if you guys land Rex. As a Jets fan, I have mixed feelings about the guy. Charismatic, passionate, and likable, but completely clueless at times (the offense, pulse of the team eg Santonio incident and making him captain, time-outs, record after the bye, team playing flat at times, lack of in-game changes, etc). I don't think he can manage the whole team. At first, he says all the right things, but after a while, you can't help dismiss everything he says and just want to should out ####.
Anyway, I'll be rooting for the guy. His best match is Atlanta. That offense can run itself and he can fix the defense.
Anyway, I'll be rooting for the guy. His best match is Atlanta. That offense can run itself and he can fix the defense.
Tim Graham @ByTimGraham Follow
More info on Bills interviews: Terry Pegula will conduct them w/Whaley & Brandon. No Overdorf. Next Bills coach reports directly to Pegula.
Tim Graham @ByTimGraham Follow
Kim Pegula also will sit in on Bills coaching interviews.
the idea of the coach reporting directly to the owner seems odd.
More info on Bills interviews: Terry Pegula will conduct them w/Whaley & Brandon. No Overdorf. Next Bills coach reports directly to Pegula.
Tim Graham @ByTimGraham Follow
Kim Pegula also will sit in on Bills coaching interviews.
the idea of the coach reporting directly to the owner seems odd.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Agree with Ryan. Outside of him (and he will probably have a few places to choose from), I'm having a hard time picking the others over Schwartz.
lod01
Footballguy
I'm saying that is why he is bailing out. He's got to know by now that Manuel is not starting NFL QB material and they have nothing in place. He basically got rid of himself if you think about it....which is a great move. It's a disaster for any HC.
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I don't understand why this has to be so complicated. You don't need a "football czar". You don't need the coach to report directly to ownership. These are tasks that the GM should be handling. Either they don't trust Whaley (perhaps there are internal conflicts?) or they're just needlessly muddying the internal heirarchy waters. Neither one of those is a good thing.
OC Zed
Footballguy
Based on all of the reports from the last three days, we can conclude one of two things: (1) the media (mostly the local ones) are really bad at their job with a lot of false reports, or (2) the Pegulas have absolutely no idea what they are doing and intend on giving Daniel Snyder a run for worst owner in the NFL.
The whole Polian fiasco makes it sound like the latter.
The whole Polian fiasco makes it sound like the latter.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about the Polian situation. He was going to come to Buffalo, until he found out that he would need to replace the coaching staff. That's a pretty big deal, so he decided to bail. The guy is 72 years old and already has a nice job at ESPN, so why bother. I'm not seeing how this reflects at all on the Pegulas.
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OC Zed
Footballguy
Except you already have a GM that's been on the job for 2 years, spent another two years being groomed for said job and another dozen years in other front office and scouting positions. And that GM has a pretty good track record of bringing in talent in those two years. Whaley isn't some pimply faced kid out of college. He knows what he's doing. Simply, there is no need to bring in Polian unless you have little faith in your GM's competency or you want to undercut any legitimacy you place in that position. Either way, it's some bad logic on the Pegulas' part.
Borden
Footballguy
Pegula hasn't even had a full year of being and NFL owner so I would say coming to the conclusion that he's already one of the worst owners is a little ridiculous. Really the only two things he's done is commit to keeping the team in Buffalo and and didn't extend his coach, who then decided to leave. Everything these seems to twitter driven reporting and/or hear say.
Borden
Footballguy
My guess is that the "czar" position in this case is more of an assistant/mentor for the owner. I think Pegula is smart enough to recognize the Jerry Jones/Al Davis route isn't the best option. Especially when you consider his business pursuits and he has the Sabres to look after as well. This might be part of the reason for why he doesn't want Whaley handling a president/GM role.
I wouldn't what my GM doing that either. Just dealing with scouts, players (and their agents), media, medical staffshould and other GMs is a lot. The president can deal with financial issues, stadium and facilities, some media, day to day owner updates, etc. Plus, in this case, help guide a new owner. He can also help settle owner/coach/GM disputes.
As for having the coach report directly to ownership, I think it's a good idea. It will help Pegula to hear how on field issues are going directly from the someone on the field. Since he seems to want to be fairly involved.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm with you on Whaley, and I think it's odd and probably bad that the HC allegedly will report directly to the owner. I'd rather see Whaley given more power.
That said, I never saw Polian (or any "czar") as necessarily undermining the GM. More like an advisor to help the Pegulas get acclimated to the NFL instead of having to learn on the fly.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
This is how I had initially read it, and that would be fine. An experienced mind who can take a big picture look at the organization and make recommendations. Sounds like a great idea. I'm talking more about tweets like this...
Jason La CanforaVerified account @JasonLaCanfora
Bill Polian will be taking over as Bills team president/football czar but move may not be announced til late Jan, due to his commitments
And then there's tweets like this:
Ian RapoportVerified account @RapSheet
#Bills haven’t decided on bringing in a football czar — Bill Polian, Mike Holmgren, etc. Marrone had nerves about someone he didn’t know
The Bills already have a team president overseeing business operations. What's the point of bringing in a president just to oversee football operations? It feels on the surface like that'd be a slap in the face to Whaley.
I've spent the last few minutes scanning NFL team management structures, and what the Bills have in place is pretty common. Most teams have a president with limited football background to oversee the business management. These guys are mostly lawyers or business-people, very well educated, coming from backgrounds like "NHL director of marketing" or "CEO of MetLife Stadium". I've scanned the entire AFC, and the only non-GM team president that I can tell who even played professional football is the Raiders' Reggie McKenzie (ETA: I take that back, he is the GM, not team president, but they have no official team president. Owner Mark Davis is listed as "managing general partner" and reportedly oversees business management).
The Bills current organizational structure looks fine to me. There's no need to add another layer in-between GM and ownership on the football heirarchy unless you don't trust Doug Whaley. And if you don't trust Doug Whaley, why is he here (and in charge of the coaching search)? I also don't see the point of having the coach report directly to ownership.
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OC Zed
Footballguy
But there is a guy already in place performing the duties of your definition of team president - Russ Brandon. As for the coach reporting directly to the owner... This is the same problem we've seen in Washington, Dallas, Oakland (Al Davis) and in Buffalo during some of the lean periods under Ralph. This isn't a recipe for success.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
If this article is to be believed, it's actually pretty common for the head coach to report to the owner:
http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/1/25/5343964/nfl-power-structures-who-really-runs-a-team
Adam SchefterVerified account@AdamSchefter
Bills also setting up interview with former Broncos and Redskins HC Mike Shanahan that could occur as early as... http://fb.me/9nmSXwjWf
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I hope you don't get Holmgren as a football czar for the sake of Bills fans.
Also hoping you find a good tough head coach and get the quarterback situation settled.
You've got the defense and Sammy.
Changing the head coach and front office was inevitable with the ownership change but if you get the right hires and luck out at QB, things could change rapidly.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
No, no, no.
flysack
Footballguy
The Bills wanted him pretty bad awhile back, I recall. He dissed them for Washington, and the Bills hired Gailey.
Borden
Footballguy
I'm not sure then. Maybe Pegula just isn't ready to commit to anything of the previous staff yet? From a general/business stand point the Bills have failed to even meet their minimum goal since 99 and haven't ever hit their ultimate goal. So, it would be difficult to fault him for wanting to fully review everyone and also weigh them against potential options. Also, let's not over value what Whaley has done. He was part of the EJ pick and the Sammy trade. I defended the Sammy trade before but at the same time he did leverage a lot of the future. An argument could be made that he has failed in the two most important areas (QB, OL) and the head coach he brought in just bailed on the team and juiced them for 4 million.
Don't get wrong I'm not saying to can Whaley but decisions do need to be made. He is a defensive guy and to some extent the team currently looks to reflect that.
Washington asked for permission to interview Schwartz for DC job and Bills said no.
Borden
Footballguy
Why would you let a team poach one of your coaches so that he can take the same position as he currently holds? Seems like a pretty insulting request.
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They probably weren't sure he'd be kept.
You would do it if either you or he wanted to part ways. Nothing insulting about it- you don't know if you don't ask.
Borden
Footballguy
Maybe but that seems like a quick phone call from GM to GM. So who leaked this? I'm guessing it was intentional by the Skins to let Swartz know they were interested and that the Bills declined.
If teams can keep their draft board relatively quiet then how does this get leaked? And asking for permission right now is also unacceptable because it's asking to the Bills to show their hand on what they plan to do with their coaching situation. It would be different if they wanted to interview for the HC spot but to interview a DC (who is under contract) for a spot DC position is kind of BS. It would be like a guy asking if he could hit on your girlfriend.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
No Shanahan, please.
Borden said:
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 4h 4 hours ago Trying to capitalize on HC shakeups, Redskins asked for, but were denied, permission to speak with Bills DC Jim Schwartz about their DC job.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 4h 4 hours ago So Redskins asked for and were denied permission to interview Bills DC Jim Schwartz and 49ers DC Vic Fangio. Ed Donatell, Joe Barry in play.
0 replies 432 retweets 245 favorites
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For example, Schefter also tweeted this today:
Adam SchefterVerified account@AdamSchefter
Buccaneers are interviewing Falcons OC Dirk Koetter for their OC job today, per source. Strong mutual interest.
12:43 PM - 3 Jan 2015
Adam SchefterVerified account@AdamSchefterBuccaneers are interviewing Falcons OC Dirk Koetter for their OC job today, per source. Strong mutual interest.
12:43 PM - 3 Jan 2015
I don't think he is under contract for 2015 though.For example, Schefter also tweeted this today:
Buccaneers are interviewing Falcons OC Dirk Koetter for their OC job today, per source. Strong mutual interest.12:43 PM - 3 Jan 2015
No, but he is currently under contract, so I don't think they have to let him talk. The Skins also asked about Fangio, who is under contract through 2015. Really nothing unusual/BS about it, it's fairly common.I don't think he is under contract for 2015 though.For example, Schefter also tweeted this today:
Buccaneers are interviewing Falcons OC Dirk Koetter for their OC job today, per source. Strong mutual interest.12:43 PM - 3 Jan 2015
I'm not following you here.No, but he is currently under contract, so I don't think they have to let him talk. The Skins also asked about Fangio, who is under contract through 2015. Really nothing unusual/BS about it, it's fairly common.I don't think he is under contract for 2015 though.For example, Schefter also tweeted this today:
Buccaneers are interviewing Falcons OC Dirk Koetter for their OC job today, per source. Strong mutual interest.12:43 PM - 3 Jan 2015
Bills have Schwartz under contract and so do the 49ers with Fangio. Both are likely going to hire a new head coach and let him make the call on whether to keep the DC in place to some degree.
Falcons do not have Koetter under contract for next year, their season is over, and they have no head coach in place. Why would they block him from interviewing somewhere? Situations don't really seem all that similar to me.
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I was just pointing out that teams asking other teams to interview coaches for lateral moves isn't underhanded nor uncommon.I'm not following you here.No, but he is currently under contract, so I don't think they have to let him talk. The Skins also asked about Fangio, who is under contract through 2015. Really nothing unusual/BS about it, it's fairly common.I don't think he is under contract for 2015 though.For example, Schefter also tweeted this today:
Buccaneers are interviewing Falcons OC Dirk Koetter for their OC job today, per source. Strong mutual interest.12:43 PM - 3 Jan 2015
Bills have Schwartz under contract and so do the 49ers with Fangio. Both are likely going to hire a new head coach and let him make the call on whether to keep the DC in place to some degree.
Falcons do not have Koetter under contract for next year, their season is over, and they have no head coach in place. Why would they block him from interviewing somewhere? Situations don't really seem all that similar to me.
To answer your question, they might block him from interviewing elsewhere if they wanted to keep him as OC, possibly consider him for HC, or buy themselves more time to see if the new HC wants to keep him.
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