Last edited by a moderator:
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
The whole thing with Schwartz is a bit dicey right? They're going to tell him, "Hey, you did a great job with the defense, but we're going to hire a different, less experienced coordinator to be your boss".
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Probably. But picking the right HC is more important than keeping a coordinator happy. If Schwartz continues to run the defense the way he did last year, he'll be gone in a year or two anyway once he's seen as a viable HC candidate again.
Unless, of course, he became the HC for the Bills.
Obviously finding the right HC is more important, but I really don't want them to pick one of the DCs. They have no track record on offense, which is obviously the glaring weakness with this team, and there's at least an even chance that they wouldn't be as good as Schwartz is with the defense.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
In which case he'd be gone in 2-3 years.Unless, of course, he became the HC for the Bills.
As if McDaniels would last longer...In which case he'd be gone in 2-3 years.Unless, of course, he became the HC for the Bills.
dhockster
Footballguy
Let me put it another way. I think Gary Kubiak, as a head coach, with a really solid DC can get you to the playoffs. I don't think he is likely to get you close to the Super Bowl. Were it not for the wonderful Marvin Lewis/Andy Dalton combination, Kubiak may not have any playoff wins in 7 years as a head coach.
Would he be a good fit for the Bills? Yes, probably because they have a good DC and defense already in place. But I tend to look at all coaching hires as "is this guy a championship HC"? With Kubiak, I think the answer is no. But that's just my opinion, having watched him coach 7 years in Houston. Buffalo could certainly make a far worse selection than Gary Kubiak.
The Bills haven't been to the playoffs in 15 years- obviously winning the Super Bowl is the ultimate goal, but you have to make the post season first.
I still think you're being too harsh on him. Let's be honest, your Texans weren't super talented, and it's hard to ignore how much better the team did after he took over. I don't think any coach in the NFL would have won a Super Bowl with that team, so it seems a bit short sighted to hold that against him. Overall I'd say the team exceeded any realistic expectations, which should be viewed as a positive for him.
He doesn't have any rings as a head coach (again, I doubt anyone would have with that team), but he does have one as the QB coach and two as an OC (and QB coach). He many not be a "championship HC" (yet), but I'm pretty sure none of those are available right now. He's a very good coach who would be a great match IMO.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Sounds like the Jets are uncharacteristically coming to their senses.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I feel stupid saying this, but I kind of wouldn't mind Josh McDaniels. He screwed up big time in Denver by alienating some of his star players and hitching his wagon to Tebow. But ultimately, he looks like he was right on Cutler and Brandon Marshall was a giant mess with a significant mental health problem that was ureated at the time. Which leaves us with the Tebow thing still of course.
And maybe he's not cut out to be a head coach. But it seemed to me that he brings a lot of energy and players seem to generally like him and play hard for him. The biggest thing though, is I've been incredibly impressed with how the Patriot offense is always adapting. They adapt year to year based on personnel, they adapt game to game based on match ups and they adapt within a game depending on what is working. Yeah, Brady is a HUGE part of all that, but he isn't the one drawing up the game plans that seem to always have teams off balance. And he's not the one changing up styles all the time. I think McDaniels has done an amazing job in New England. And you couldn't ask for a better mentor than BB. I think it speaks volumes about McDaniels that BB took him back. Maybe he'd still be a bust as a HC, but plenty of other top coaches have failed, learned, regrouped and done great at their second stop. I think McDaniels could do that too.
And maybe he's not cut out to be a head coach. But it seemed to me that he brings a lot of energy and players seem to generally like him and play hard for him. The biggest thing though, is I've been incredibly impressed with how the Patriot offense is always adapting. They adapt year to year based on personnel, they adapt game to game based on match ups and they adapt within a game depending on what is working. Yeah, Brady is a HUGE part of all that, but he isn't the one drawing up the game plans that seem to always have teams off balance. And he's not the one changing up styles all the time. I think McDaniels has done an amazing job in New England. And you couldn't ask for a better mentor than BB. I think it speaks volumes about McDaniels that BB took him back. Maybe he'd still be a bust as a HC, but plenty of other top coaches have failed, learned, regrouped and done great at their second stop. I think McDaniels could do that too.
I don't know if I want to see Marrone get another job or not. Would certainly be fun to root against him somewhere even though I wasn't a big hater during his time with the Bills.
If he doesn't get a HC job, would he take an OC job this year or sit out and wait for another HC job to open up? Doesn't seem like he wants to go back to college.
If he doesn't get a HC job, would he take an OC job this year or sit out and wait for another HC job to open up? Doesn't seem like he wants to go back to college.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Yeah, on one hand it would be hilarious if Marrone ended up without a HC gig after her national media portrayed him as the second coming of Lombardi.
On the other hand, Marrone as HC of the Jets would have been great for the Bills.
Maybe my empathy for Jets fans is the tiebreaker there.
On the other hand, Marrone as HC of the Jets would have been great for the Bills.
Maybe my empathy for Jets fans is the tiebreaker there.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Ugh. Jason LaCanfora is reporting that Russ Brandon prefers Mike Shanahan. And this is exactly why Brandon should have NO say on the football side.
dhockster
Footballguy
Perhaps your right. I just get the sense that Kubiak did not enjoy a lot of the responsibilities of being the head coach. I think it wore him down to the point of him collapsing on the sideline last year. He is a very loyal person, to the point of sticking with players longer than he should have. You can do that as a OC (where you might get overruled by the HC) but you can't afford to do that as a HC. He might be just what Buffalo needs to at least get back into the playoff picture. I was just not sad to see him go from the Texans because I think he got as far as he could. I will agree that 2011 might have been different had Schaub not gotten hurt. The Texans defense was outstanding that year, and they would have won the divisional game against Baltimore if they got anything out of the QB position, but it was not to be.
I also find it interesting that he is turning down HC interviews right now to focus on Baltimore's playoff games. I think that says something about how he really likes the OC job (and he is very good at it).
flysack
Footballguy
Do you think his ego could handle an OC job after he voluntarily walked away from a HC job?
I don't. I bet he sits out the year if no one hires him.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
No way he would get a HC gig if he sits out. If he doesn't get a HC job, I don't think he has a choice but to take an OC job. If there are teams that actually want his super conservative, completely uncreative, implement his system regardless of personnel, type offense.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Would love someone Offensive-oriented, but not Shanny. My list would probably be Kubiac, Gase, Bevell, McDaniels, Reich.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Best line I've seen on TBD in a while is that he'd go to the CFL, because in that league you get to punt on third down.
Sorry to recycle somebody else's joke, but that was too good not to post here.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
If Marrone doesn't land a head coach job, he could latch on somewhere as like "Assistant Head Coach / Offensive Consultant" or something like that. Something vague and generic where he doesn't really have a position group to coach but still has his hands in the offense without having to call plays. Someone will give him another head coaching job at some point, either at the NFL or college level....maybe not this year, but I'd be stunned if he drops off the planet and never gets another shot.
On The Rocks
Footballguy
I don't get the hate for Shanny. He turned the Redskins around and was one injury away from potentially beating the Seahawks and going on to the Super Bowl. Weren't they up 14-0 on Seattle? Once the RG3 injury happened the wheels fell off but that (the wheels falling off) could also be attributed to the front office just as much as on him.
On The Rocks
Footballguy
I really don't see Marrone ever getting another NFL HC gig.
He landed in Syracuse based on his alma mater and an offense in New Orleans run by Sean Payton. I get that he didn't have a Drew Brees at QB or anything even similar, but he also didn't show any sign go being "mastermind".
Maybe he could be a defensive coordinator hiring consultant.
He landed in Syracuse based on his alma mater and an offense in New Orleans run by Sean Payton. I get that he didn't have a Drew Brees at QB or anything even similar, but he also didn't show any sign go being "mastermind".
Maybe he could be a defensive coordinator hiring consultant.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Reports seem to confirm that Marrone's interview with the Jets "did not go well." Lol.
And Schefter reporting that the Bills have requested permission to interview Kyle Shanahan. Add another one to the list. No thanks though.
And Schefter reporting that the Bills have requested permission to interview Kyle Shanahan. Add another one to the list. No thanks though.
Turned them around? He went 24-40 (0-1 in post season) there with one winning season out of four. Griffin did get hurt that game, but Shanny is the one who kept him in there when he was hurt. Even if they win that game it was only the wild-card round, so it's pretty presumptuous to say "going on to the Super Bowl" (Seattle lost the next game).
Also, he was VP of football operations and had final say on all football matters, so he essentially was the front office.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
This is a team if there ever was one that needs a bright young offensive mind, not some retread.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
In non-coaching news, the Bills are reportedly very interested in extending Nigel Bradham's contract.
That is excellent news as I think he's turning into a very very good LBer. Can probably sign him to a pretty reasonable extension now. Bradham, Kiko and Brown would make up a heck of a LBer core.
That is excellent news as I think he's turning into a very very good LBer. Can probably sign him to a pretty reasonable extension now. Bradham, Kiko and Brown would make up a heck of a LBer core.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Who do you think plays wlb, mlb and slb? I'm guessing Brown at slb, Kiko at mlb and Bradham at wlb?
Last edited by a moderator:
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Latest rumor: Several teams including Bills are considering the Shanahans as a package. Mike as GM, Kyle as HC.
Sounds like an absolute disaster to me.
Sounds like an absolute disaster to me.
Borden
Footballguy
What's everyone's opinion of Hackett? Should he stay? I'm guessing that might be a tough pill to swallow for a potential head coach. "we think you're the right guy to our teams coach but you're not going to be able to pick your OC or DC"
Just wondering want the general consensus is around here. Love him? Hate him?
Just wondering want the general consensus is around here. Love him? Hate him?
I don't get the Shanahan as GM rumors. I assume all options are on the table but that puts Whaley in a terrible spot.
On The Rocks
Footballguy
This whole process of everybody and their brother tweeting and blogging about "rumored candidates" is wearing me out. If half of it is true, it sounds like someone is scared ####less to make a decision.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I'd be willing to give them time to prove themselves, but generally agree in the extreme lack of confidence. What a bummer that would be, leading up to next season.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I've always thought that Mike Shanahan was an overrated coach who mostly owed his reputation to John Elway. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I'll be disappointed if we go that route, especially if it's some sort of messed up father-son deal.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The biggest issue for me if they brought in the Shanahans as a package, is that, for me, it would go beyond a front office failure at that point. At that point you are looking at an owner failure.
Anyone dumb enough to put a father in charge of a football team and allow him to make his son the coach is hopeless. Especially with the personnel track record for Mike and the pathetic coaching results of Kyle.
dhockster
Footballguy
Shanahan also owed a lot of his success to Gary Kubiak. If you look at Shanahan's offensive numbers with Kubiak and without Elway, they are still very good. If you look at Shanahan's number's with Denver and Washington without Kubiak they are pretty average. Kubiak was able to build a top ten offense in Houston without Shanahan.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I'm starting to come around to the idea of Kubiak.
After thinking about it, I am more impressed with his limited success with Schaub, and the Texans than I am with a higher level of success by some of the others with guys like Brady, Manning, Russell Wilson, Luck, Elway, etc.
Borden
Footballguy
I'm not a Kubiak supporter as a HC. I think we are giving too much credit to the "his team had no talent" aspect. Andre Johnson, Arian Foster and a top 5 OL isn't a talentless offence. The Ravens offence has struggled at the end of the season if you don't count the playoffs. I think he is a solid OC in general but I think that's the best role for him. That said I'd much rather have him then a Shanahan organization.
Last edited by a moderator:
OC Zed
Footballguy
Don't forget Mario Williams and a talented linebacking corps while he was with the Texans.
Last edited by a moderator:
No one said his team had no talent. All I said is that I think he exceeded expectations with the talent he had.
That being said, you're kidding yourself if you think he wasn't a big reason for his players success. He helped develop the offense around Andre Johnson, gave Foster the opportunity and developed him, and molded the O-line from a complete joke into a solid unit. I mean, Matt Schaub led the entire NFL in passing in his first complete season under Kubiak. He was over 4000 yards in all 3 of his full seasons with him.
As for the Ravens, they went from 307.4 ypg and 20 ppg (29th and 25th) to 364.9 and 25.6 (12th and 8th) in one season. Joe Flacco just set career highs in yards and TDs. Justin Forsett just ran for 5.4 ypc and almost equaled his career numbers (combined). The offense set franchise records for both yards and points this season- best offensive season in 19 years.
If someone wants to say that maybe he isn't the absolute best offensive mind in the game, I won't bother to argue. If you want to try to dismiss his track record as anything less than very good, I think you're off your rocker.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
You guys understand that every single coordinator we would consider for a HC vacancy will have coached some good players, right? The guys who make the jump from OC/DC to HC are the guys who coach playoff teams. Those teams tend to have good players. You can make the "He only looked good because he was coaching talented players" argument about literally every single coordinator on the market, this year and every year.
OC Zed
Footballguy
Well, to be fair, we are apparently interviewing every single coordinator in the NFL.
Bucky suggests Mike Shanahan is a HC candidate, not GM/czar only.
No thanks on his suggestion of Bill Lazor or Pep Hamilton either.
http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/jerry-sullivan/mike-shanahan-would-be-ideal-for-the-bills-20150106
No thanks on his suggestion of Bill Lazor or Pep Hamilton either.
http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/jerry-sullivan/mike-shanahan-would-be-ideal-for-the-bills-20150106
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Vic Carucci reporting that:
a) Whaley is expressing confidence in Manuel to prospective HC candidates and wants them to come in and develop him like Marrone didn't do and
b) If the Bills did bring in both Shanahans, it wouldn't be as GM and HC, it would be Mike as HC and Kyle as OC.
I'm not a big fan of that either, especially since there would likely have to be compensation to Cleveland to allow the lateral move. But it's not as bad as Mike as GM and Kyle as HC.
a) Whaley is expressing confidence in Manuel to prospective HC candidates and wants them to come in and develop him like Marrone didn't do and
b) If the Bills did bring in both Shanahans, it wouldn't be as GM and HC, it would be Mike as HC and Kyle as OC.
I'm not a big fan of that either, especially since there would likely have to be compensation to Cleveland to allow the lateral move. But it's not as bad as Mike as GM and Kyle as HC.
Similar threads
