2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (7 Viewers)

[Aaron Rudnicki]

there's got to be another place to discuss Calvin Pryor besides a thread on the Buffalo Bills.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I like Rex, although now it's going to be extremely important that they bring in someone good to handle the offense.

That being said, is anyone else not overly impressed with the Jets defense recently? He has a great reputation, but they haven't been good for a long time.

Rex was left hung out to dry by his GM - the team had no one, and I mean absolutely no one, to play cornerback - especially after Milner (who hasn't been very good anyway) was lost for the season. It got so bad the team had to move their only safety that can play in coverage, Allen, out to cornerback, leaving them with two safeties, Pryor and Landry, that were far better suited to play up close to the line in run support.

However, even as an undermanned unit, the jets defense was still very good. Don't forget how Geno Smith gave up a ton of points on pick sixes and put their defense in bad field position.

Didn't Rex have a pretty big say in the draft and personnel decisions?

I'm not saying that Rex is a bad defensive coach by any stretch, and I know there are a lot of factors at play, but I don't see how anyone can think that the Jets defense was very good last year.

No (he openly petitioned for more help at CB) and they were very good given the circumstances that I presented to you. If you want to ignore them or point a few other teams that turned the ball over more than them, I can't help you.

Maybe ask Tom Brady if the Jets' defense wasn't any good?

Why does everything have to be so confrontational?

Perhaps you're a breeder?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I think Rex is a perfect fit for the city of Buffalo. Blue collar, smashmouth, aggressive coach. He's the Bills version of Ted Nolan.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Roman hire is official as per Rotoworld FWIW

What happened to Trestman? Did he get leprosy?

terrible fit with EJ imo

The NFL is a terrible fit with EJ imo

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Roman hire is official as per Rotoworld FWIW

What happened to Trestman? Did he get leprosy?

terrible fit with EJ imo

The NFL is a terrible fit with EJ imo

well, Trestman doesn't really seem like a guy that fits all that well with a defensive, run oriented head coach either. he can build a passing game around marginal QB talent, but the Bears were kind of a mess all year.

 

[ScottNorwood]

I won't complain if they bring in Sanchez. The cupboard is bare at QB and he's better than what they've got currently.

 

[humpback]

I like Rex, although now it's going to be extremely important that they bring in someone good to handle the offense.

That being said, is anyone else not overly impressed with the Jets defense recently? He has a great reputation, but they haven't been good for a long time.

Rex was left hung out to dry by his GM - the team had no one, and I mean absolutely no one, to play cornerback - especially after Milner (who hasn't been very good anyway) was lost for the season. It got so bad the team had to move their only safety that can play in coverage, Allen, out to cornerback, leaving them with two safeties, Pryor and Landry, that were far better suited to play up close to the line in run support.

However, even as an undermanned unit, the jets defense was still very good. Don't forget how Geno Smith gave up a ton of points on pick sixes and put their defense in bad field position.

Didn't Rex have a pretty big say in the draft and personnel decisions?

I'm not saying that Rex is a bad defensive coach by any stretch, and I know there are a lot of factors at play, but I don't see how anyone can think that the Jets defense was very good last year.

No (he openly petitioned for more help at CB) and they were very good given the circumstances that I presented to you. If you want to ignore them or point a few other teams that turned the ball over more than them, I can't help you.

Maybe ask Tom Brady if the Jets' defense wasn't any good?

Why does everything have to be so confrontational?

Perhaps you're a breeder?

Yeah, that must be it.

 

[OC Zed]

Greg Roman is going to be the offensive coordinator? His offenses at Stafford and San Francisco were known for being ultra conservative and his young QB got worse each season. Rex reaffirming his reputation as not knowing what do the other side of the ball. Awesome.

Kaepernick was looked at as a major project that would take years to ever be starter material. Roman made him into a guy that got a huge contract in about a year and a half. Yeah, the polish is off the apple a bit there now, but for all the talk of how bad Kaepernick was, his stats really aren't all that terrible. They're not great, but they're not terrible.

Andrew Luck's numbers got better both years under Roman.

And Alex Smith went from being a gigantic bust to an actual NFL QB under Roman.

But again, Kaepernick got worse each season as a starter under Roman. That's not developing a QB. And I wouldn't put a lot of credence of Luck getting better in his sophomore year. He's a phenom and the vast majority of players get better from their freshmen to sophomore years.

Alex Smith was a dink & dunk king in his season and a half as the starter under Roman and that team heavily relied on its defense (which was more dominant than the Bills defense this past season).

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

But again, Kaepernick got worse each season as a starter under Roman. That's not developing a QB. And I wouldn't put a lot of credence of Luck getting better in his sophomore year. He's a phenom and the vast majority of players get better from their freshmen to sophomore years.

Alex Smith was a dink & dunk king in his season and a half as the starter under Roman and that team heavily relied on its defense (which was more dominant than the Bills defense this past season).

I'm not sure you'll find an OC or coach available that doesn't have some type of flaws you can pick apart if you choose to focus on them. Roman has a pretty good track record. Yes, things went sour this year, but it wasn't all on him.

Wasn't that long ago that people were writing stuff like this about him:

Roman, the man who probably dialed up more brilliant calls than anyone in the business last season, the audacious innovator who overhauled the Niners' offense on the fly in midseason and literally and figuratively unveiled formations that turned the football world upside down, is the guy getting blasted by half the folks who've ever held a Madden joystick. It's also likely that Roman, counterintuitive as it may sound, was denied the opportunity to become an NFL head coach by virtue of San Francisco's postseason success. "The only reason Greg hasn't gotten one of those jobs yet? Timing," says Jacksonville Jaguars general manager Dave Caldwell.

If Harbaugh is the high-strung, hyper-competitive face of the 49ers, Roman is the franchise's relentlessly unrestrained inner monologue. The second-year head coach and the offensive coordinator who followed him to San Francisco from Stanford have much in common. Neither lacks confidence, favors subtlety nor is particularly beholden to convention.

"You can never say Jim and I aren't open-minded," Roman says. "At Stanford, we went the opposite of everybody. Now we're moving in our own direction. We're taking it as far as it can go, doing things like putting eight offensive linemen on the field. In a way, it's simple: You've gotta see what you've got, and put people in positions of strength."

"He's the best coordinator I've ever had," says running back Frank Gore, the Niners' all-time franchise rushing leader. "I respect Norv Turner and Mike Martz, but G-Ro is a very smart guy. He made the game so easy for everybody — for me, for our line, for our quarterback. I want him to be with me forever, but I want him to be a head coach. He deserves it. He'll be a great one. I feel that if everything goes right, this'll be his last year with us."

Adds 49ers running backs coach Tom Rathman: "I was surprised he didn't get a job this year, because I think he has everything. Not only does he have the X's and O's down, but he motivates his players. He's a real leader. Players love him. He fits the mold of some really good coaches. We were really lucky we got him back again next year. When he gets a shot, I think he's gonna open a lot of eyes."

"He kind of reminded me of [Jon] Gruden," Seifert recalls. "Gruden would always sit and watch [veteran offensive line coach] Bobb McKittrick's meetings and delve into all aspects of the game. Basically, Greg was the same kind of guy. It wasn't like he was just gonna work with the tight ends. He was gonna know every facet of the offense. He knew it, in some ways, better than some of the coaches on the staff.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--offensive-guru-and-coaching-candidate-greg-roman-a-victim-of-his--niners--success-022509392.html

 

[Shutout]

Wish the OC hire was somebody else. I almost see Roman as the thing that held the Niners back. I know people loved him but he wasn't setting the league on fire with mid-pack offensive teams.

But, he IS taking a lateral move so maybe that says something more about what he was allowed to do than what he would have chosen to do in SF. Maybe there is more to it than meets the eye.

At any rate, I think its a good combination of hires. I would have loved to have seen Bowles there. I think he is an ascending talent with a sharp mind and I think a "never been a HC before" candidate is much more willing to concede and hire a guy that he can let run his side of the show while the new coach focusses in on what he knows and builds from there.

All in all, what's the big deal if the Bills play lights out defense next year and look pedestrian on offense? Isn't that what we just saw THIS year?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

All in all, what's the big deal if the Bills play lights out defense next year and look pedestrian on offense? Isn't that what we just saw THIS year?

That's a function of our players. Bill Walsh and Ted Marchibroda in their primes wouldn't turn our offense into a top-10 unit given the issues at guard and QB. I think it's pretty safe to assume that the offense will be below-average next year under Rex, but it would have been below-average no matter who we hired, unless EJ turns it around or we stumble upon a good replacement.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

All in all, what's the big deal if the Bills play lights out defense next year and look pedestrian on offense? Isn't that what we just saw THIS year?

it's not a 1-year hire. most important factor is building a team that can compete over many years. It's tough to expect a huge improvement from the offense given the QB situation right now, but there are ways that it can at least become less of a weakness (improve offensive line, focus on the running game, find better ways to use the WR talent in place, etc.).

Roman was highly sought after. I think it's cool that the Pegulas are going out and signing coaches that are in demand instead of the way things were under Wilson when the team pretty much had to take whoever was willing to come to Buffalo for a meager salary and hope to use it as a stepping stone to something bigger.

 

[OC Zed]

But again, Kaepernick got worse each season as a starter under Roman. That's not developing a QB. And I wouldn't put a lot of credence of Luck getting better in his sophomore year. He's a phenom and the vast majority of players get better from their freshmen to sophomore years.

Alex Smith was a dink & dunk king in his season and a half as the starter under Roman and that team heavily relied on its defense (which was more dominant than the Bills defense this past season).

I'm not sure you'll find an OC or coach available that doesn't have some type of flaws you can pick apart if you choose to focus on them. Roman has a pretty good track record. Yes, things went sour this year, but it wasn't all on him.

Wasn't that long ago that people were writing stuff like this about him:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--offensive-guru-and-coaching-candidate-greg-roman-a-victim-of-his--niners--success-022509392.html

Based on Rex's and Roman's track records, I'm envisioning an ultra-conservative and predictable offense of running on 1st and 2nd downs with dink & dunk passes on 3rd down. That was a bad recipe for the Bills in 2013 and I don't see it being any better in 2015.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

Points allowed can be skewed by defensive scores by the other team, turnovers that give them a short field, etc.

Look at the two Bills/Jets game this year.

In the first, the Bill scored 43, in large part thanks to forcing six turnovers. The Bills had scoring drives of 1, -4, 9, -1 and 14 yards in that game. Hard to blame those on the defense.

In the second, the Bills scored 38, thanks to a blocked punt and a TD-scoring drive of 16 yards.

Sure, but yards allowed can be skewed by the same things, and points given up is more important than yards. Plus, what about the takeaways, sacks, 3rd down and red zone efficiency, etc.?If you dig a little deeper, the Jets only had 1 more giveaway than the Bills last year on offense, and they had more time of possession, meaning their defense was on the field less often.

Obviously personnel comes into play, but all things considered the Jets haven't been a good defense for the last 4 years.

All things considered you're wrong. Why are we pretending like stuff like Football Outsiders doesn't exist in 2015? They parse out all the "skewing" you're arguing about. Their D rankings in six years were 1st, 5th, 2nd, 9th, 12th, 21st. And they never even had a real pass-rusher.

I like DVOA, but it isn't perfect either. However, even after their "adjustments", they've been just an okay defense the last 3 years.

"Perfect"...idk, close enough. Feel free to suggest a ranking system that's better. It's certainly preferable to bias-prone "eye tests" from some random who doesn't watch all 32 teams.

It wasn't meant to discredit DVOA (I said I like it), but there is no "perfect" measure.That being said, on what planet is +3.6 and 21st "very good"? By their definition, it's below average.

Shrug all you want. In 12 hours you've gone from last 4yrs, to 3yrs, to 1yr as your endpoints. Convenient.

 

[OC Zed]

All in all, what's the big deal if the Bills play lights out defense next year and look pedestrian on offense? Isn't that what we just saw THIS year?

it's not a 1-year hire. most important factor is building a team that can compete over many years. It's tough to expect a huge improvement from the offense given the QB situation right now, but there are ways that it can at least become less of a weakness (improve offensive line, focus on the running game, find better ways to use the WR talent in place, etc.).

Roman was highly sought after. I think it's cool that the Pegulas are going out and signing coaches that are in demand instead of the way things were under Wilson when the team pretty much had to take whoever was willing to come to Buffalo for a meager salary and hope to use it as a stepping stone to something bigger.

To be fair, Phillips, Williams and Mularky were all considered great hires by the team at that time. And Wilson was willing to open up the pocketbook for a big name coach (i.e., Shanahan or Cowher) prior to the Gailey hire.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Based on Rex's and Roman's track records, I'm envisioning an ultra-conservative and predictable offense of running on 1st and 2nd downs with dink & dunk passes on 3rd down. That was a bad recipe for the Bills in 2013 and I don't see it being any better in 2015.

it's possible, but I don't see it that way at all. these are aggressive coaches with pretty strong reputations.

sorry you don't like the hires. I'm not sure they will be home runs, but I'm feeling pretty good about things compared to where we were under Marrone and Hackett.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

All in all, what's the big deal if the Bills play lights out defense next year and look pedestrian on offense? Isn't that what we just saw THIS year?

it's not a 1-year hire. most important factor is building a team that can compete over many years. It's tough to expect a huge improvement from the offense given the QB situation right now, but there are ways that it can at least become less of a weakness (improve offensive line, focus on the running game, find better ways to use the WR talent in place, etc.).

Roman was highly sought after. I think it's cool that the Pegulas are going out and signing coaches that are in demand instead of the way things were under Wilson when the team pretty much had to take whoever was willing to come to Buffalo for a meager salary and hope to use it as a stepping stone to something bigger.

To be fair, Phillips, Williams and Mularky were all considered great hires by the team at that time. And Wilson was willing to open up the pocketbook for a big name coach (i.e., Shanahan or Cowher) prior to the Gailey hire.

I don't remember the circumstances of the Mike Mularky hire very well, but Phillips just inherited the position from Marv. And we got absolutely ripped right and left when we hired Gregg Williams over Marvin Lewis. Williams was an absolute nobody at the time.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

All in all, what's the big deal if the Bills play lights out defense next year and look pedestrian on offense? Isn't that what we just saw THIS year?

it's not a 1-year hire. most important factor is building a team that can compete over many years. It's tough to expect a huge improvement from the offense given the QB situation right now, but there are ways that it can at least become less of a weakness (improve offensive line, focus on the running game, find better ways to use the WR talent in place, etc.).

Roman was highly sought after. I think it's cool that the Pegulas are going out and signing coaches that are in demand instead of the way things were under Wilson when the team pretty much had to take whoever was willing to come to Buffalo for a meager salary and hope to use it as a stepping stone to something bigger.

To be fair, Phillips, Williams and Mularky were all considered great hires by the team at that time. And Wilson was willing to open up the pocketbook for a big name coach (i.e., Shanahan or Cowher) prior to the Gailey hire.

They (Williams, Mularkey) were well regarded coordinators, but they didn't cost much and not sure they required much of a hard sell to take their first and only HC jobs.

 

[humpback]

Points allowed can be skewed by defensive scores by the other team, turnovers that give them a short field, etc.

Look at the two Bills/Jets game this year.

In the first, the Bill scored 43, in large part thanks to forcing six turnovers. The Bills had scoring drives of 1, -4, 9, -1 and 14 yards in that game. Hard to blame those on the defense.

In the second, the Bills scored 38, thanks to a blocked punt and a TD-scoring drive of 16 yards.

Sure, but yards allowed can be skewed by the same things, and points given up is more important than yards. Plus, what about the takeaways, sacks, 3rd down and red zone efficiency, etc.?If you dig a little deeper, the Jets only had 1 more giveaway than the Bills last year on offense, and they had more time of possession, meaning their defense was on the field less often.

Obviously personnel comes into play, but all things considered the Jets haven't been a good defense for the last 4 years.

All things considered you're wrong. Why are we pretending like stuff like Football Outsiders doesn't exist in 2015? They parse out all the "skewing" you're arguing about. Their D rankings in six years were 1st, 5th, 2nd, 9th, 12th, 21st. And they never even had a real pass-rusher.

I like DVOA, but it isn't perfect either. However, even after their "adjustments", they've been just an okay defense the last 3 years.

"Perfect"...idk, close enough. Feel free to suggest a ranking system that's better. It's certainly preferable to bias-prone "eye tests" from some random who doesn't watch all 32 teams.

It wasn't meant to discredit DVOA (I said I like it), but there is no "perfect" measure.That being said, on what planet is +3.6 and 21st "very good"? By their definition, it's below average.

Shrug all you want. In 12 hours you've gone from last 4yrs, to 3yrs, to 1yr as your endpoints. Convenient.

In case you can't figure it out, there are multiple conversations going on in here- one said that they were very good last year, and that shows that they were not. IMO, they have not been "very good" for several years, but you can think whatever you'd like.

 

[OC Zed]

All in all, what's the big deal if the Bills play lights out defense next year and look pedestrian on offense? Isn't that what we just saw THIS year?

it's not a 1-year hire. most important factor is building a team that can compete over many years. It's tough to expect a huge improvement from the offense given the QB situation right now, but there are ways that it can at least become less of a weakness (improve offensive line, focus on the running game, find better ways to use the WR talent in place, etc.).

Roman was highly sought after. I think it's cool that the Pegulas are going out and signing coaches that are in demand instead of the way things were under Wilson when the team pretty much had to take whoever was willing to come to Buffalo for a meager salary and hope to use it as a stepping stone to something bigger.

To be fair, Phillips, Williams and Mularky were all considered great hires by the team at that time. And Wilson was willing to open up the pocketbook for a big name coach (i.e., Shanahan or Cowher) prior to the Gailey hire.

I don't remember the circumstances of the Mike Mularky hire very well, but Phillips just inherited the position from Marv. And we got absolutely ripped right and left when we hired Gregg Williams over Marvin Lewis. Williams was an absolute nobody at the time.

Williams was the defensive coordinator under Jeff Fisher in Tennessee with multiple top 5 seasons defensively. His candidacy around the league was on par with Lewis at that time.

Mularkey was the offensive coordinator with the Steelers from 2000 to 2003. He was known for opening up the Steelers' playbook and getting the most out of younger talent like Hines Ward and Antwaan Randel El.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Nobody expected the Jets to be any good on defense last year. They had no corners and limited speed on the edges. Two great defensive linemen can't do everything.

I'm curious to know how involved Rex was on both sides of the ball throughout his Jets tenure. Hands on everything or does he delegate to his staff?

 

[Mr. Peterson]

I think Rex is smart enough to know how good Watkins is and he and Roman will force feed him the ball. Watkins will make a big jump next year no matter who the QB is.

But I do think we need to come up with a pounder. Dixon is not the guy.

But maybe Roman can work with what he has. He'll need to improve our guards before he does anything though. Let's hope Cryus Kouandjio and/or Cyril Richardson show huge improvement.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

this is kind of how I feel too:

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-opinion/2015/1/12/7530763/rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-are-a-credible-short-term-marriage

I also think it's good that the Bills are being decisive here, and moving faster than the other teams with HC openings. That's giving Rex a chance to fill out his staff with guys he wants.

 

[QuizGuy66]

I'd be careful to judge Roman too harshly on what went down in SF this year. There were bigger things at play (like a totally poisoned relationship b/w the head coach and the front office) - sometimes that has an impact on the team. I guess the example with that in mind is Mike Zimmer who was Petrino's DC in Atlanta for that one year which was a total disaster. That had no impact on him being great for the Bengals.

Nice to see Rex with a team I don't reflexively root against.

-QG

 

[Borden]

I'm relatively happy with the Rex hire but it depends a lot on how he was brought in. The stuff we don't get to see is what is actually important to me. Is Swartz happy to have Rex there? Did they consult Swartz about the hire? Did they ask Rex about Swartz and how he would go about working with him? Are they bringing Rex in as motivator, general tactician and to be an example of hard work and team leadership or does he think that he is there to be a micro managing dictator? Do the Bills actually believe in Ryan or do they just thing he was the biggest name available?

This is the first major action by the new ownership so I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt and they made this hire the right way for the right reasons. I want the Bills to become a team first, hard working, best player playing, family of an organization. I believe that this comes down from the right from the top and there's no doubt that awesome players and coaches are why teams win but this is also a significant factor. I worry that new owners may over look this or treat a team more like a strict dollars and cents business.

 

[Borden]

Ryan and Roman may not be world changing coaches but I think it would be hard to say they aren't an improvement, even if it's only in the slightest depending on who you talk to. For a team that just finished 9-7 and heartcrushingly close to playoffs then this might be what is needed to get them in. They goal for this team should be playoffs, that's it. It's been 15 years. Plus, I'm not sure of the exact numbers but I'm guessing there's a pretty high percentage of teams that won the Super Bowl also made the playoffs that year. As long as Rex works with Swartz and Roman and generally let's them do their thing the Bills should be in decent shot of reaching their playoff goal.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Did they consult Swartz about the hire?

this seems very unlikely, and not something any team would be expected to do in similar circumstances.

it sounds like Rex wants to keep him though. Will probably come down to a meeting between Ryan and Schwartz to see if they can make it work. Otherwise, Dennis Thurman will probably come over from the Jets as DC.

 

[lod01]

I'd be careful to judge Roman too harshly on what went down in SF this year. There were bigger things at play (like a totally poisoned relationship b/w the head coach and the front office) - sometimes that has an impact on the team. I guess the example with that in mind is Mike Zimmer who was Petrino's DC in Atlanta for that one year which was a total disaster. That had no impact on him being great for the Bengals.

Nice to see Rex with a team I don't reflexively root against.

-QG

I'm interested to see if there is any pass catching by RBs. Someone is responsible for the lack of passes to RBs. He arrived with Harbug and Gore became a one dimensional RB. From an average of about 48 catches a year to a paltry average of under 20. A pathetic 11 this past year.

 

[RBM]

How's the cap situation here? Mark Ingram a possibility? He'd be such a great fit.

 

[Borden]

Did they consult Swartz about the hire?

this seems very unlikely, and not something any team would be expected to do in similar circumstances.

it sounds like Rex wants to keep him though. Will probably come down to a meeting between Ryan and Schwartz to see if they can make it work. Otherwise, Dennis Thurman will probably come over from the Jets as DC.

I agree it's unlikely or at least not the standard but I am hoping this new Bills ownership doesn't care about being like everyone else. I don't think many teams sent out recruiting pamphlets to undrafted rookies but the Seahawks do. Most teams don't interview 1000 coaches but the Bills did. I think it's smart to have input from you current staff and it's not like Swartz wouldn't be a perfect guy to ask since he has been a HC and is also a defensive coach.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

if you're paying a guy $27.5MM over 5 years to be your new coach and basically the face of the franchise, I don't think it makes sense to check in with your DC that you are passing over and has 1 year left on his deal to get his approval first. you hope Schwartz wants to stick around, but the HC hire is more important here and should be the priority. Obviously, you want to let your new HC pick his staff rather than having a staff help pick the HC.

 

[Borden]

How's the cap situation here? Mark Ingram a possibility? He'd be such a great fit.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/11/7376451/nfl-salary-cap-nflpa-2015

According to this the Bills will have 17 mil in space. The Saints will be 20 mil OVER.

 

[Borden]

if you're paying a guy $27.5MM over 5 years to be your new coach and basically the face of the franchise, I don't think it makes sense to check in with your DC that you are passing over and has 1 year left on his deal to get his approval first.

Why would you not ask? Take it with a grain of salt of course but you should be trying get as much info as possible. More so if you plan to have them work together. If the intention is to build a solid unit that works together then why would you think so poorly of them that you wouldn't ask them their opinion? You should want them be involved. You wouldn't be asking for approval you'd be asking for their opinion. There's a huge difference.

 

[humpback]

Nobody expected the Jets to be any good on defense last year. They had no corners and limited speed on the edges. Two great defensive linemen can't do everything.

I'm curious to know how involved Rex was on both sides of the ball throughout his Jets tenure. Hands on everything or does he delegate to his staff?

Sure they did.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

if you're paying a guy $27.5MM over 5 years to be your new coach and basically the face of the franchise, I don't think it makes sense to check in with your DC that you are passing over and has 1 year left on his deal to get his approval first.

Why would you not ask? Take it with a grain of salt of course but you should be trying get as much info as possible. More so if you plan to have them work together. If the intention is to build a solid unit that works together then why would you think so poorly of them that you wouldn't ask them their opinion? You should want them be involved. You wouldn't be asking for approval you'd be asking for their opinion. There's a huge difference.

let's say you're in a job and your boss leaves. you interview for the vacated position and want it very badly.

if the owner or CEO or whoever comes to you and asks your opinion of some other candidate they are considering for the same position, how would that go exactly?

are you just saying they should have given Schwartz a call and said "hey, if we hire Rex, do you think you'd mind sticking around another year and working with him?"

I don't even know how that would work. I think that's a call that Rex should make at an appropriate time when he's deciding how to build his staff.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Nobody expected the Jets to be any good on defense last year. They had no corners and limited speed on the edges. Two great defensive linemen can't do everything.

I'm curious to know how involved Rex was on both sides of the ball throughout his Jets tenure. Hands on everything or does he delegate to his staff?

Sure they did.

who? with what cornerbacks and OLBs?

EDIT: ok, I guess some people did.

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2014/7/13/5871595/2014-2015-season-preview-defense

either way, I don't see why people want to base everything off one year. if things went great for Ryan and Roman in 2014, they wouldn't be available to get hired. that's generally how these things work.

 

[Borden]

Found a pretty good list of this years FA's.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/

 

[GroveDiesel]

But again, Kaepernick got worse each season as a starter under Roman. That's not developing a QB. And I wouldn't put a lot of credence of Luck getting better in his sophomore year. He's a phenom and the vast majority of players get better from their freshmen to sophomore years.

Alex Smith was a dink & dunk king in his season and a half as the starter under Roman and that team heavily relied on its defense (which was more dominant than the Bills defense this past season).

I'm not sure you'll find an OC or coach available that doesn't have some type of flaws you can pick apart if you choose to focus on them. Roman has a pretty good track record. Yes, things went sour this year, but it wasn't all on him.Wasn't that long ago that people were writing stuff like this about him:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--offensive-guru-and-coaching-candidate-greg-roman-a-victim-of-his--niners--success-022509392.html

Based on Rex's and Roman's track records, I'm envisioning an ultra-conservative and predictable offense of running on 1st and 2nd downs with dink & dunk passes on 3rd down. That was a bad recipe for the Bills in 2013 and I don't see it being any better in 2015.

That seems like a weird conclusion. They may very well do that, but Roman didn't do that with Luck at Stanford. And the biggest complaint against Roman this last year was that he tried to make Kaepernick throw the ball downfield too much.

If you look at his career, he's tried to tailor the offense to what he has everywhere he's been.

When he first got to Stanford he concentrated on the power run game since he had Toby Gearhart. Then he opened it up to a more pro style passing game with Luck. When he got to SF he turned Alex Smith around by using Gore in a power running game and having Smith use his quick release to throw short quick passes. They then turned to Kaep where they first went with an option/pistol offense with some long play actions to take advantage of Kaep's athleticism and cannon arm. As the O-line broke down and the defense struggled some, he tried to open up the passing a bit more but it just wasn't there. Although, to be honest, Kaep's raw numbers this year weren't terrible. Their biggest struggles were in he red zone. Of course that's one negative as Buffalo was very similar last year. Lots of yardage, but few TDs in the red zone.

But all that to say that assuming Roman has a certain predictable system that he'll force no matter what his team or personnel are seems wrong to me.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Found a pretty good list of this years FA's.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/

Dear god that QB list is pathetic

 

[Borden]

if you're paying a guy $27.5MM over 5 years to be your new coach and basically the face of the franchise, I don't think it makes sense to check in with your DC that you are passing over and has 1 year left on his deal to get his approval first.

Why would you not ask? Take it with a grain of salt of course but you should be trying get as much info as possible. More so if you plan to have them work together. If the intention is to build a solid unit that works together then why would you think so poorly of them that you wouldn't ask them their opinion? You should want them be involved. You wouldn't be asking for approval you'd be asking for their opinion. There's a huge difference.

let's say you're in a job and your boss leaves. you interview for the vacated position and want it very badly.

if the owner or CEO or whoever comes to you and asks your opinion of some other candidate they are considering for the same position, how would that go exactly?

are you just saying they should have given Schwartz a call and said "hey, if we hire Rex, do you think you'd mind sticking around another year and working with him?"

I don't even know how that would work. I think that's a call that Rex should make at an appropriate time when he's deciding how to build his staff.

I believe Swartz is under contract so you know he will stay but if I'm Pegula I called Swartz and say

"Jim we are probably going to go with some else for our head coach. Unless something goes sideways it's going to be Rex Ryan. We've made it clear to Rex that we want you to continue to be our defensive coordinator. I'm trying to build an organization that is up front and everyone works together. You experience as a head coach and as defensive specialist is extremely valuable to us. That's why right now, just between the two of us, I would like to know your honest opinions on Rex." Then proceed to have a very open and honest conversation.

That might go a little different if Rex said that he wanted to keep and work with Swartz. Either way you let him know that he didn't get the job but he doesn't have to worry about getting replaced. Plus, if Swartz wants to leave then he only has one more year and he a lot of talent to still work with and will likely drive up his value for next season.

 

[Borden]

Found a pretty good list of this years FA's.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/

Dear god that QB list is pathetic

Hahahahaha. You're right. I wasn't really looking at QBs but I don't think (outside of Peyton) there's ever really good QBs that hit the free agent market anyways.

 

[humpback]

Nobody expected the Jets to be any good on defense last year. They had no corners and limited speed on the edges. Two great defensive linemen can't do everything.

I'm curious to know how involved Rex was on both sides of the ball throughout his Jets tenure. Hands on everything or does he delegate to his staff?

Sure they did.

who? with what cornerbacks and OLBs?

EDIT: ok, I guess some people did.

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2014/7/13/5871595/2014-2015-season-preview-defense

either way, I don't see why people want to base everything off one year. if things went great for Ryan and Roman in 2014, they wouldn't be available to get hired. that's generally how these things work.

Yeah, several people did.

No one is basing anything off of just one year- the Jets defense hasn't been great for several years, same goes for SF's offense. It doesn't make them bad hires, but it's reality.

 

[OC Zed]

Found a pretty good list of this years FA's.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/

Ryan Mallett and Ryan Mathews are interesting names on that site. I don't know enough about the listed free agent guards to have any opinion one way or another, but hopefully a couple moves are made there as well.

 

[humpback]

if you're paying a guy $27.5MM over 5 years to be your new coach and basically the face of the franchise, I don't think it makes sense to check in with your DC that you are passing over and has 1 year left on his deal to get his approval first.

Why would you not ask? Take it with a grain of salt of course but you should be trying get as much info as possible. More so if you plan to have them work together. If the intention is to build a solid unit that works together then why would you think so poorly of them that you wouldn't ask them their opinion? You should want them be involved. You wouldn't be asking for approval you'd be asking for their opinion. There's a huge difference.

let's say you're in a job and your boss leaves. you interview for the vacated position and want it very badly.

if the owner or CEO or whoever comes to you and asks your opinion of some other candidate they are considering for the same position, how would that go exactly?

are you just saying they should have given Schwartz a call and said "hey, if we hire Rex, do you think you'd mind sticking around another year and working with him?"

I don't even know how that would work. I think that's a call that Rex should make at an appropriate time when he's deciding how to build his staff.

I believe Swartz is under contract so you know he will stay but if I'm Pegula I called Swartz and say

"Jim we are probably going to go with some else for our head coach. Unless something goes sideways it's going to be Rex Ryan. We've made it clear to Rex that we want you to continue to be our defensive coordinator. I'm trying to build an organization that is up front and everyone works together. You experience as a head coach and as defensive specialist is extremely valuable to us. That's why right now, just between the two of us, I would like to know your honest opinions on Rex." Then proceed to have a very open and honest conversation.

That might go a little different if Rex said that he wanted to keep and work with Swartz. Either way you let him know that he didn't get the job but he doesn't have to worry about getting replaced. Plus, if Swartz wants to leave then he only has one more year and he a lot of talent to still work with and will likely drive up his value for next season.

I agree, although maybe not necessarily about getting his opinion on Ryan explicitly. I'd stick more to how much they value him and want him to stay a part of this thing they're building, etc.

They can't tell him that he doesn't have to worry about getting replaced because he does- Rex very well may want to bring in Thurman instead. Also, I'm not sure why people think the Bills would force Schwartz to stay if he doesn't want to be there. They'd almost certainly let him leave if he wanted to.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

No one is basing anything off of just one year- the Jets defense hasn't been great for several years, same goes for SF's offense. It doesn't make them bad hires, but it's reality.

do you think Ryan is a bad head coach? do you think Ryan is a bad defensive coach?

I'm not sure what you are saying exactly. Who would you have wanted to hire instead?

I think the Jets defense while he was there and the Ravens defense before he left were consistently very good to great overall.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Also, I'm not sure why people think the Bills would force Schwartz to stay if he doesn't want to be there. They'd almost certainly let him leave if he wanted to.

of course.

doesn't make much sense to keep someone if they don't want to be there.

but, that doesn't mean they shouldn't also make an attempt to keep him if they feel he'd be an asset to the team.

there's been no report or rumor as of yet saying that he wants out. sounds like the decision is still being made.

 

[humpback]

I like Ingram, but they would be much better served focusing on other areas first. If he would come very cheap, sure, but I doubt it.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Guys like Ingram or Mathews wouldn't excite me much. Mathews can't stay healthy and Ingram is nothing special imo.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I don't care if Schwartz stays or goes. He did a good job with the defense and he'll be unemployed for about 30 minutes if we let him go. But the defense will be fine without him too.

This time last year, everybody was freaking about Petine leaving. Now for some reason his replacement is an irreplaceable cornerstone of the franchise.

 

[humpback]

Also, I'm not sure why people think the Bills would force Schwartz to stay if he doesn't want to be there. They'd almost certainly let him leave if he wanted to.

of course.

doesn't make much sense to keep someone if they don't want to be there.

but, that doesn't mean they shouldn't also make an attempt to keep him if they feel he'd be an asset to the team.

there's been no report or rumor as of yet saying that he wants out. sounds like the decision is still being made.

This is exactly what I was saying a week or so ago, but you were on the opposite side.

Of course they should make an attempt to keep him. Never said otherwise