2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (3 Viewers)

[GroveDiesel]

How screwed are we if these McCoy accusations are true?

Short term, things would not look good at all. I did like some of the elements Cadet brought to the table though. Would be interested to see if he got more of a chance.

Long term, I'm not sure they were looking at him for much contribution beyond this year. So I'm not sure it would affect them longterm much other than it would potentially slow Allen's development not having McCoy to count on (depending on if Bills even plan on playing Allen this year anyway).

 

[Mr. Peterson]

Short term, things would not look good at all. I did like some of the elements Cadet brought to the table though. Would be interested to see if he got more of a chance.

Long term, I'm not sure they were looking at him for much contribution beyond this year. So I'm not sure it would affect them longterm much other than it would potentially slow Allen's development not having McCoy to count on (depending on if Bills even plan on playing Allen this year anyway).

If it is true, I hope Allen doesn’t see the field at all this year even more than ever.  McCoy would’ve been the only thing to somewhat protect him.  

I could see us possibly looking at Demarco Murray if McCoy is suspended or cut.  We can’t roll with Ivory and Cadet, could we? 

 

[GroveDiesel]

Mike Schopp just went on an epic rant about how McCoy being on the team makes zero difference because the only way to win in the NFL is to throw the ball and that paying a RB a bunch of money and relying on him for offense is a recipe for losing. 

I kind of agree with him. 

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

If it is true, I hope Allen doesn’t see the field at all this year even more than ever.  McCoy would’ve been the only thing to somewhat protect him.  

I could see us possibly looking at Demarco Murray if McCoy is suspended or cut.  We can’t roll with Ivory and Cadet, could we? 

I'd say no to rolling with Ivory and Cadet, but I'm not sure how much more Murray would offer other than another body, right? That would be a 1a, 1b, 1c situation, no? Nothing stellar, but some serviceable guys.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Mike Schopp just went on an epic rant about how McCoy being on the team makes zero difference because the only way to win in the NFL is to throw the ball and that paying a RB a bunch of money and relying on him for offense is a recipe for losing. 

I kind of agree with him. 

I disagree. He gives them a shot until they get a very good QB. If they had a top tier QB, then I'd say, yes, spending a ton of money on a top tier RB would be somewhat a waste in today's NFL.

Take McCoy off last year's team and there no way they make the playoffs.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Let's be 100% clear.  Regardless of whether McCoy is guilty or not, the Ivory signing was a terrible move.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

Mike Schopp just went on an epic rant about how McCoy being on the team makes zero difference because the only way to win in the NFL is to throw the ball and that paying a RB a bunch of money and relying on him for offense is a recipe for losing. 

I kind of agree with him. 

I really can’t stand Schopp.  He’s so arrogant and combative with his callers.  

I think he’s wrong on almost everything he says about the Bills. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

You guys are being all pessimistic.  Let's say Shady gets cut.  We still have our ultra-raw rookie QB who might step up for us.  Or maybe Chris Ivory will get inspired by the opportunity and bust out yardage behind our "revamped" offensive line.  Or maybe one of our WRs will break out, like that guy who dropped every pass thrown his way last year.  

We're going to be officially on the clock by Thanksgiving, right?

 

[GroveDiesel]

You guys are being all pessimistic.  Let's say Shady gets cut.  We still have our ultra-raw rookie QB who might step up for us.  Or maybe Chris Ivory will get inspired by the opportunity and bust out yardage behind our "revamped" offensive line.  Or maybe one of our WRs will break out, like that guy who dropped every pass thrown his way last year.  

We're going to be officially on the clock by Thanksgiving, right?

You forgot to add in the TE that gets hurt every year, the journeymen offensive linemen, and that the WR that dropped every pass also had a bizarre incident where he was naked in an apartment hallway and covered in blood after attempting to kick out a window and jump out.

 

[humpback]

I disagree. He gives them a shot until they get a very good QB. If they had a top tier QB, then I'd say, yes, spending a ton of money on a top tier RB would be somewhat a waste in today's NFL.

Take McCoy off last year's team and there no way they make the playoffs.

A shot at what? Let's be honest, they were extremely fortunate to make the playoffs last year (where they looked awful) and are highly unlikely to make it this year even if nothing comes of this.

I've said this before, but it's a waste to keep paying McCoy big money- they aren't going anywhere this year, his skills are likely going to continue to diminish and he very likely won't be any good at all when they actually have a shot to be competitive.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Could be a blessing in disguise.  Without McCoy the Bills can be a purely tank team and get a franchise QB in next years draft.

 

[montana_grizzly_bears]

Could be a blessing in disguise.  Without McCoy the Bills can be a purely tank team and get a franchise QB in next years draft.

So are you saying Rosen isn't a franchise quarterback? 

 

[Mr. Peterson]

So are you saying Rosen isn't a franchise quarterback? 

We drafted Allen.  And I think Norwood is just trying to be funny.  

If we get a high pick (which is likely without McCoy), I’m thinking we gotta go trenches.  Is there a RB out there like a Barkley?  A WR worthy of a top 5 pick?  

I know there’s going to be some amazing DL talent at the top of the draft.  I could see us going that route if we get a top 5 pick. 

 

[Interseptopus]

We drafted Allen.  And I think Norwood is just trying to be funny.  

If we get a high pick (which is likely without McCoy), I’m thinking we gotta go trenches.  Is there a RB out there like a Barkley?  A WR worthy of a top 5 pick?  

I know there’s going to be some amazing DL talent at the top of the draft.  I could see us going that route if we get a top 5 pick. 

Good WR talent in this draft (better than 2018). Top RB seems to be Love last time I checked. Not a Barkley talent but round 1 worthy possibly. Not sure about top 5. 

 

[ScottNorwood]

We drafted Allen.  And I think Norwood is just trying to be funny.  

If we get a high pick (which is likely without McCoy), I’m thinking we gotta go trenches.  Is there a RB out there like a Barkley?  A WR worthy of a top 5 pick?  

I know there’s going to be some amazing DL talent at the top of the draft.  I could see us going that route if we get a top 5 pick. 

I think montana_grizzly_bears was just trying to be funny by saying Rosen!

 

[montana_grizzly_bears]

I think montana_grizzly_bears was just trying to be funny by saying Rosen!

I just got the names mixed up is all. The meaning is still the same.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

A shot at what?

A shot at winning a game here and there is what was in my head.

 

[humpback]

A shot at winning a game here and there is what was in my head.

Gotcha. IMO since the team doesn't have a legitimate chance at making (and advancing in) the playoffs, I'd much prefer they save the money and put it towards the future. It would be an added bonus if they also got a better draft position because of it.

 

[Hankmoody]

We drafted Allen.  And I think Norwood is just trying to be funny.  

If we get a high pick (which is likely without McCoy), I’m thinking we gotta go trenches.  Is there a RB out there like a Barkley?  A WR worthy of a top 5 pick?  

I know there’s going to be some amazing DL talent at the top of the draft.  I could see us going that route if we get a top 5 pick. 

N'Keal Harry is a beast, Julio-type WR.  If they get #1 they'll trade down and pick up a bounty like TEN or IND did once they had franchise QB's but ended up with a premium pick.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Lots of fun stuff going on, but, belatedly, congrats to @jonramz (aka @YardsPerPass on Twitter) for the The Athletic gig. What a lineup they've out together over there.

 

[jonramz]

Lots of fun stuff going on, but, belatedly, congrats to @jonramz (aka @YardsPerPass on Twitter) for the The Athletic gig. What a lineup they've out together over there.

thanks man... appreciate it

 

[GroveDiesel]

Several folks in the national media have been critical of how the Bills have handled the QBs so far, basically saying that the Bills are incompetent because they are giving all 3 QBs reps with the different units right now. 

Thoughts?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Several folks in the national media have been critical of how the Bills have handled the QBs so far, basically saying that the Bills are incompetent because they are giving all 3 QBs reps with the different units right now. 

Thoughts?

If it's an open competition what could they do differently? That does not seem all the abnormal to me, other than maybe it being 3 QBs instead of 2 competing to start.

 

[Gawain]

If it's an open competition what could they do differently? That does not seem all the abnormal to me, other than maybe it being 3 QBs instead of 2 competing to start.

Peterman's the wild card. That Chargers game looks so bad on a stat line that unless you're tuned into the Bills, it makes Allen and McCarron look like candidates to go out and throw 5 picks. By stating all three are in the running, the Bills are indicating that they don't have anyone better than a guy who took his shot and could only muster 1 more completion than interception.

 

[Gottabesweet]

Peterman's the wild card. That Chargers game looks so bad on a stat line that unless you're tuned into the Bills, it makes Allen and McCarron look like candidates to go out and throw 5 picks. By stating all three are in the running, the Bills are indicating that they don't have anyone better than a guy who took his shot and could only muster 1 more completion than interception.

It's been one week, It's over-blown stating that there aren't enough reps to go around.  They are all alternating with the first team.  Training camp is such a small sample size with limited plays being installed. You just want them to all stay above water and start to separate around preseason game #3, They break camp in mid August anyways and are practicing closed back at the team facility installing more.

 

[GroveDiesel]

If it's an open competition what could they do differently? That does not seem all the abnormal to me, other than maybe it being 3 QBs instead of 2 competing to start.

I think what's lost in their analysis is that this isn't a true 3-way QB competition. Everyone knows that Josh Allen is the only viable longterm option of the 3. So while there may be some competition to see who will start the year as the starter, long term the plan is already known. 

If you view it through the lens of developing Josh Allen, it makes more sense IMO. They're getting McCarron and Peterman enough reps so that one of them can start the season if they think Allen needs to refine some things a bit more or if they don't want to throw him to the wolves of the tough schedule they start with, while also getting Allen plenty of reps and looks with a bunch of different guys.

The other thing missed IMO, is that McDermott and his staff don't just focus on the select elite guys. They coach up everyone and give everyone a legit opportunity. That not only gives teams a better chance of finding that diamond in the rough, it gives your team depth and a better ability to handle injuries. If a coaching staff has made up their minds on who all of their starters and contributors are 4 days into camp and only focus on those guys, I'd argue that they are terrible coaches not doing their jobs. 

If we hit the week after preseason game #2 and all 3 QBs are splitting equal reps in practice, then yeah, that's probably not good, but sheesh. It's not like there is a veteran Aaron Rodgers on the team. 

 

[Gawain]

It's been one week, It's over-blown stating that there aren't enough reps to go around.  They are all alternating with the first team.  Training camp is such a small sample size with limited plays being installed. You just want them to all stay above water and start to separate around preseason game #3, They break camp in mid August anyways and are practicing closed back at the team facility installing more.

I have no issue with Peterman getting reps. If Allen's the goods, it's not going to matter if he got 30% of his reps with the 1st team or 70%. His play will show that he deserves to be on the field. I also think that Peterman got a bum rap after one game that he was woefully unprepared for. But for those of us not plugged into the Bills (national folks giving the Bills crap for giving three guys first-team reps), it's easy to laugh and point out that your traded-up-for 1st rounder can't beat out Mr. 5 INT.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Several folks in the national media have been critical of how the Bills have handled the QBs so far, basically saying that the Bills are incompetent because they are giving all 3 QBs reps with the different units right now. 

Thoughts?

Clearly the shark move would have been to pick one of our unproven guys at random, totally commit to him before camp opened, and give that guy all of the first-team reps.  YOLO.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The Bills have given all the QBs time with the starters since the spring. But for the first time this year they had a QB lead the 1s for two straight practices.

AJ McCarron.

In 11--on-11 drills and thus far, McCarron completion rate hovers around 75%. And while he isn't regularly attacking downfield, he also isn't making the mistakes that the other two options are. Meanwhile Peterman sits around 54% in the same settings, while Allen is barely above 50%.

 

[GroveDiesel]

The Bills have given all the QBs time with the starters since the spring. But for the first time this year they had a QB lead the 1s for two straight practices.

AJ McCarron.

In 11--on-11 drills and thus far, McCarron completion rate hovers around 75%. And while he isn't regularly attacking downfield, he also isn't making the mistakes that the other two options are. Meanwhile Peterman sits around 54% in the same settings, while Allen is barely above 50%.

Allen has certainly been hit and miss, but he has definitely had more passes dropped by his receivers than the other two and is definitely throwing downfield more as well.

My bet is that McCarron starts the season, plays mediocre, and Allen takes over at some point in the season.

 

[Arodin]

Allen has certainly been hit and miss, but he has definitely had more passes dropped by his receivers than the other two and is definitely throwing downfield more as well.

My bet is that McCarron starts the season, plays mediocre, and Allen takes over at some point in the season.

This is what analysts were saying about him when comparing to other top QB prospects pre-draft.  Odd that it's still going on.

Is it possible that he's got something mechanical (or arm strength) that adds difficulty to his passes?

 

[GroveDiesel]

This is what analysts were saying about him when comparing to other top QB prospects pre-draft.  Odd that it's still going on.

Is it possible that he's got something mechanical (or arm strength) that adds difficulty to his passes?

I think it's more like he's playing with 3rd string training camp receivers on a team that doesn't have great receivers to begin with. The guys he's throwing the most passes to won't be on an NFL team in another month.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

I really like this trade for Corey Coleman.   We’re not giving up much (from what I hear) and it’s definitely a position of need. If it doesn’t work out, we cut him.  But I think this could be a situation where it’s more wasted talent on a doomed Browns team.  If he stays healthy it could be a steal for us.  

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Very interesting indeed. I believe he missed practice yesterday with a "hamstring injury". Hopefully that was just a case where they knew they were trading him and held him out. If it's a late pick next year I like the addition to an area of need - fairly high upside, but could easily bust.

 

[Ilov80s]

I really like this trade for Corey Coleman.   We’re not giving up much (from what I hear) and it’s definitely a position of need. If it doesn’t work out, we cut him.  But I think this could be a situation where it’s more wasted talent on a doomed Browns team.  If he stays healthy it could be a steal for us.  

Zay Jones, Corey Crawford and Kelvin Benjamin. They have managed to gather quite a collection of highly drafted receivers. 

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

So, they got him for a 2020 7th rounder. I think that's the lowest price I've ever seen a team pay for anyone.

WELL worth the gamble at that price.

 

[GroveDiesel]

So, they got him for a 2020 7th rounder. I think that's the lowest price I've ever seen a team pay for anyone.

WELL worth the gamble at that price.

Agreed. He has enough upside to more than justify the cost. I'm not sure what happened to make the Browns want to trade him so badly though. Hope he isn't looking at a suspension or something.

 

[Gawain]

Agreed. He has enough upside to more than justify the cost. I'm not sure what happened to make the Browns want to trade him so badly though. Hope he isn't looking at a suspension or something.

I can't imagine not paying a 7th round pick two years out for anyone drafted in the first fifteen picks in the past three years.

Even if he never sees the field, this is a dart throw I'd be happy to see the Bills make 10 times out of 10.

 

[-OZ-]

Understandably the Coleman trade drops whatever value he had, but I'm surprised there's no mention of Cam in here.

https://buffalonews.com/2018/08/03/cam-phillips-turning-heads-at-training-camp-for-bills/

 

[GroveDiesel]

Understandably the Coleman trade drops whatever value he had, but I'm surprised there's no mention of Cam in here.

https://buffalonews.com/2018/08/03/cam-phillips-turning-heads-at-training-camp-for-bills/

There were definitely reports that he was looking pretty good, but missing a bunch of days with a groin injury when you're an undrafted free agent isn't a good way to make the team. Plenty of guys in the past have looked great in camp, but disappeared when the real stuff commenced. If he can't get out there soon to show that he can perform in a preseason game, he won't be around for long.

 

[bostonfred]

Agreed. He has enough upside to more than justify the cost. I'm not sure what happened to make the Browns want to trade him so badly though. Hope he isn't looking at a suspension or something.

This is total speculation but

There are reports that Coleman partied too much

That doesn't sit well with the team when they're dealing with Josh Gordon

They want to get him out of there and send a message to the team that anyone can be to cut no matter how good they are

Hey it worked for guys like parcells and belichick 

But that doesn't work for the browns because getting cut is good news because they suck

So they traded him to the new worst place in the league

Now he has to play out 2-3 years of a rookie contract in buffalo

And they gave him away so there's no confusion to the team that they could have cut him and they didn't. 

It's the only explanation that makes sense to me barring some kind of bombshell about an injury or suspension that I doubt is coming.

Getting sent to Buffalo is now the threat Cleveland uses. 

 

[GroveDiesel]

This is total speculation but

There are reports that Coleman partied too much

That doesn't sit well with the team when they're dealing with Josh Gordon

They want to get him out of there and send a message to the team that anyone can be to cut no matter how good they are

Hey it worked for guys like parcells and belichick 

But that doesn't work for the browns because getting cut is good news because they suck

So they traded him to the new worst place in the league

Now he has to play out 2-3 years of a rookie contract in buffalo

And they gave him away so there's no confusion to the team that they could have cut him and they didn't. 

It's the only explanation that makes sense to me barring some kind of bombshell about an injury or suspension that I doubt is coming.

Getting sent to Buffalo is now the threat Cleveland uses. 

If it works as well as Jordan Poyer moving from the Browns to the Bills last year, I'm all for them shipping their talent to the Bills.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

If it works as well as Jordan Poyer moving from the Browns to the Bills last year, I'm all for them shipping their talent to the Bills.

Got em!!!!

 

[GroveDiesel]

Just like we all expected, Nathan Peterman starts the first preseason game and looked like Joe Montana.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Just like we all expected, Nathan Peterman starts the first preseason game and looked like Joe Montana.

You didn't expect that?

 

[GroveDiesel]

McCarron has done a nice job throwing short and medium, but missed 2 wide open guys deep.

Marcus Murphy needs to make the team. He looks fantastic 

 

[GroveDiesel]

So far, love the playcalling by Daboll. Soooooo much better than Dennison.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Buffalo's 3rd string is terrible on both sides of the ball. The defense was brutal. Worse, the offensive line and 3rd string WRs are so bad it's impossible to evaluate Allen. Tons of O-line penalties, 2 false starts by the 4th string RB, and lots of drops. Terrible.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Both Peterman and McCarron got banged up in practice today. Could be an opportunity for Allen...

Tired of reading about Robert Foster dropping multiple passes everyday. Gotta think he's among first cuts at this point. Not going to help Allen's development when the receivers he's working with drop a quarter of his passes everyday.

Ray-Ray McCloud has sounded pretty good though. Getting open and making plays, including a nice showing in the first preseason game. If he keeps it up, gotta think that the chemistry developing with Allen could help McCloud make the roster.

 

[On The Rocks]

I'm a little surprised the Bills don't have a fourth QB in camp primarily for that 4th preseason game.  As much as I liked what I saw from the three headed monster last week, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm feeling the exact opposite of that good feeling come Saturday morning.  If one of these guys rises to the top of the heap over the next two weeks, I'd rather not see one of the others left out there to play mop up time against guys literally fighting for their NFL lives and willing to rough up a QB just to catch the attention of the coaches that will end up working as furniture movers by the day after Labor Day.