?Beat someone with a winning record and get back to me.
Vikings 27
Bears 17
?Beat someone with a winning record and get back to me.
Vikings 27
Bears 17
They don't have the OL to get anything going consistently against good D's. When they ran up the gut on that first drive on 3rd and inches, with the entire OL getting pushed backwards... well, it is what it is, and it isn't changing this year. That's what we're working with. Against good D's, they might be able to nickel/dime to scores here and there, but JMHO they make too many mistakes to rely on the approach as a game plan. The D has regressed and suffers from it's own inconsistency/mental breakdowns/penalties. Add it up, and the margin is just too thin over 60 minutes for a team that does not execute near well enough to play that way. Don't get me wrong, they'll be an entertaining team to watch this year, and get their share of wins. Still, in all likelihood they're just biding time to a season ending beat down of some sort.snogger said:Not sure if it is coaching or "I got mine" mentality but this offense looks uninspired to many times.. Looked like zombies for over 3 quarters... Reminded me way too much of the Bills game...
Well, that kind of is my point.. The OL sucks.... you know it, I know it, hell, everyone but apparently the OC knows it...They don't have the OL to get anything going consistently against good D's. When they ran up the gut on that first drive on 3rd and inches, with the entire OL getting pushed backwards... well, it is what it is, and it isn't changing this year. That's what we're working with. Against good D's, they might be able to nickel/dime to scores here and there, but JMHO they make too many mistakes to rely on the approach as a game plan. The D has regressed and suffers from it's own inconsistency/mental breakdowns/penalties. Add it up, and the margin is just too thin over 60 minutes for a team that does not execute near well enough to play that way. Don't get me wrong, they'll be an entertaining team to watch this year, and get their share of wins. Still, in all likelihood they're just biding time to a season ending beat down of some sort.
Probably need to think about what it will take to solve the longstanding OL problem. I'd just write off re-signing Barr, Richardson, Sendejo, Waynes and redistribute that cap money where it is needed. They aren't difference makers on D, and we can perhaps get difference makers at OL. I don't know what they have tied up in Reiff/Remmers, but I'd get out from under those obligations if possible because they are drastically overpaid. I commend the team for trying with those guys, but they are basically stealing at this point.
I 100% agreed with Zimmer's assessment on Cousins who seemed hell-bent on taking high gambit / high risk pass. He did appear to placed too much faith in his abilities as well as over-reliance on Thielen and Diggs instead of allowing his play-makers to play make on the field.Cousins hasn't been playing as well the last two games. Zimmer said Cousins two interceptions were because of a miscommunication and then a misread. He says Cousins should be more willing to take whats there instead of always pushing the ball down the field. From what I saw Cousins was way off target on a lot of throws and not all of those were affected by pressure, which is basically what Zimmer was talking about as far as what pressure is, because he thought Cousins has a lot of clean pockets to work with.
Agreed on the bold text. Vikings' divisional loss to Bears is squarely on Cousins' and DeFilippo for lack of preparation and adjustment throughout in this game. I was genuinely surprised with lack of screen passing to their RB / TE and I kept yelling to the TV screen to make dumpoff pass... just to keep their offense moving on the field.I don't remember many deep passing plays. In fact, worst pass protection of the night was a red zone sack where DT came right through unblocked. I agree it was not a great offensive game plan by JDF, particularly disappointing with the bye week to prepare. Very vanilla and predictable, which I'd hoped we moved beyond with that hire. For whatever reason, the Vikings have not executed screens well at all this season, which is the main counterpunch to pressure. Maybe it is not as successful because these are 4-man rush (i.e. not blitz) pressures. Like Buffalo, that Bear front is just a bad matchup for our line. Still, I'm pinning what we're seeing on player abilities/execution rather than coaching. At least for now.
I'm not saying Zimmer is definitely not part of the problem, but I don't think he is emphatically not head coaching material. If Dan Carlson makes a 35 yard FG vs. the Pack... 6-4. If Thielen doesn't fumble us to a 9-14 point swing nearing halftime vs New Orleans... maybe the Vikes are up 20-10 at half vs a top NFC team. If Dalvin doesn't fumble in the redzone... if Cousins doesn't throw two picks... if guys don't get dumb personal fouls, etc., etc., etc.lack of quality coaching is killing them, too. Zimmer is not HC material.
In that each is a bipedal carbon-based lifeform? Just kidding, he is awfully good.
If Zimmer would only get out of his own way he would be on his way to legendary status.Zimmer is a very good HC. Don't see that criticism at all. Love the guy. OL continues to suck. Kirk has had some bad moments but putting up outstanding stats behind that terrible front. I think DeFilipo is still finding his way.
They were playing Marcus Sherels and Holton Hill at CB at one point. In a passing league, they're just undermanned.This might be the worst defense of the Zimmer era. I'm not saying they're dumpster fire bad, just near the bottom of what we have seen from a Zimmer lead defense. 4 games left and they've already allowed more points than they did all of last season. Last season was special, but still...
They were playing Marcus Sherels and Holton Hill at CB at one point. In a passing league, they're just undermanned.
The biggest problem is what everyone said it would be - the offensive line sabotages everything.
Depth on the OL and CB is making things worse then it seems. There is a LOT of talent on the team.. One of those years where bad planning regarding the OL, and injuries on the defense are making this team look more flawed then they are.They were playing Marcus Sherels and Holton Hill at CB at one point. In a passing league, they're just undermanned.This might be the worst defense of the Zimmer era. I'm not saying they're dumpster fire bad, just near the bottom of what we have seen from a Zimmer lead defense. 4 games left and they've already allowed more points than they did all of last season. Last season was special, but still...
The biggest problem is what everyone said it would be - the offensive line sabotages everything.
Was a big question for me also, until they showed the replay.. NE had both Diggs and Theilen double covered. Meanwhile Treadwell is coming across the field vs. 1 defender. I think had Kirk lead Treadwell a little further they get a 1st down there.With the O-Line problems I don't understand why they don't try more roll outs to get Kirk moving. He seems to have done well in the past in those situations.
For yesterday a couple things stood out to me:
- What the heck kind of call was a 5 yd slant on 4th and 11? You have Diggs and Thielen who excel at contested catches. At least go down the field and give them a chance to make a play or get a flag (speaking of which I don't know how you didn't get at least one flag in the endzone for two clear PI's and then the Pats get one on the second play of the following drive for similar defense - terrible officiating).
- Defense will struggle when you have to have Sherrels at corner. The first catch and run by Gordon should have been a 5 yd play and then that drive might not end up in a TD and the game is different. It was a really big play at that time and Sherrels just missed a fairly easy tackle.
Vikes have another chance but next week is close to a must win. Hopefully the Rams can take down the Bears to keep the Vikes within striking distance for the division with the final game vs Bears.
But with a 4th and 11 situation I would much rather put the play in the hands of Thielen/Diggs (even in double coverage) down the field where they excel at contested balls. It also gives you a chance at PI. The defender was all over Treadwell where there was virtually no way he is getting 11 yds. It was a terrible decision.Was a big question for me also, until they showed the replay.. NE had both Diggs and Theilen double covered. Meanwhile Treadwell is coming across the field vs. 1 defender. I think had Kirk lead Treadwell a little further they get a 1st down there.
But when it comes to Treadwell, you basically have to hit him between the numbers for him to catch it, thus 5 yards and punt.
As for the non-PI.. I kind of understood the first one not being called.. If that ball is back from Theilten, instead of behind the defender it gets called.
The 2nd non-call was ridiculous.. Defender clearly grabs the WR's shoulder as he is going up for the ball.
This is just baffling to me. The NFL is so deep into groupthink that everyone just keeps parroting an idea without it having any proven merit. Same as it ever was I guess. It's as if they see a young OC and prematurely declare him a potential HC, regardless of how he's actually performing. DeFilipo hasn't done anything this year to even suggest he's even a good coordinator yet.I think a lot of the blame has to go on the OC.. seems he had one plan to start the season and regardless of how bad the OL is playing he is sticking to the plan. That is why I about fell off my couch laughing when Aikman kept mentioning how good of a OC he was and would make a great HC.
The running game looked like it was actually working but the OC insists on throwing 70% of the time and thinks having Kirk stand in the pocket for 4 seconds is fine.
Part of that is also poor offensive line play. Part of it is Cousins not timing it right and poor ball placement. Part of it is just poor design.BigJim® said:One thing that caught my eye was how well NE executes quick screens. JDF should take notes, because Viking screens seem slow developing and doomed.
There are two sides to this.Andy Dufresne said:They were playing Marcus Sherels and Holton Hill at CB at one point. In a passing league, they're just undermanned.
The biggest problem is what everyone said it would be - the offensive line sabotages everything.
What do you mean by this?Heatman said:If Zimmer would only get out of his own way he would be on his way to legendary status.
agreed. I'm getting a bad Adam Gase vibe out of Zimmer. stunningly good at times, laughably bad at others.I'm kinda getting a bad Jay Cutler vibe with Kirk
I'm kinda getting a bad Jay Cutler vibe with Kirk
I'm getting a stinky fish bait smell from the Saints fans silly comments in this Vikings threadagreed. I'm getting a bad Adam Gase vibe out of Zimmer. stunningly good at times, laughably bad at others.
we might see a wholesale change at HC in a record number of cities. Minnesota, Cleveland, Cincy, GB, Jets, Dolphins, TB, Carolina, Jax, SF ( cmon now Shanahan is Hue Jackson-bad), Pittsburgh..who else?
Cousins tries on the field and seems to have a quality attitude. Cutler was a #### and didn't care much of the time. Bad decisions may be similar but the entire package is nowhere close to the same.I'm kinda getting a bad Jay Cutler vibe with Kirk
Not every call. The 4th and 1 that Murray got stood up on went the favor of the Vikes. At the time it was a fairly big call but the two PI's missed in the corner of the endzone followed up by an immediate PI call for NE on the following drive was inexcusable. Either call them all PI or none of them. You can't split on those and I think it was the same official as the primary decision maker on those three plays.I am going go to give Zimmer and DeFilipo a pass on the New England game. They were in tough with the Patriots getting some good home cooking with every borderline call going their way. Patriots might have won the game anyway without all the suspect calls but I will never know.
I am really losing interest in NFL. Vikings can't seem to ever find the formula needed to build a decent offensive line. Teams like New England and Seattle find ways to adjust but the Vikings just start off mediocre and just deteriorate over the season.
Nah, I've just owned them both in fantasy, which has caused me to watch way more of either of them that I've wanted.I'm getting a stinky fish bait smell from the Saints fans silly comments in this Vikings thread
Very much agreed on the attitude. Kirk is one of the most stand-up guys in the NFL, and one of the best people in all sports.Cousins tries on the field and seems to have a quality attitude. Cutler was a #### and didn't care much of the time. Bad decisions may be similar but the entire package is nowhere close to the same.
Well you are also wrong to make this comparison.Statorama said:Very much agreed on the attitude. Kirk is one of the most stand-up guys in the NFL, and one of the best people in all sports.
Strictly putting my comments in the realm of on the field results.
Those numbers are close enough that you didn't have to be a snotty little jerk about itWell you are also wrong to make this comparison.
Kirk Cousins after 12 games is on pace for 655 pass attempts 467 completions 71.3% completion rate 4653 passing yards 30 TD.
The best season of Cutlers career was in 2008 (his 3rd year with Mike Shanahan) 616 pass attempts 384 completions 62.3% completion rate 4526 passing yards 25 TD
Cutler played so well that year that he got traded to the Bears for a couple first round picks.
Now please take your unsupportable notions elsewhere.
Bia wasn't being a snotty little jerk. He was saying that you're way off base, and he's right. The numbers aren't close at all. That referenced year for Cutler was probably the best of his career. Cousins has had multiple years in a row better than that one. Cousins career QB rating is higher than Cutler's best rating in one season. Cutler is only leading the Bears in all-time stats because he played a lot of seasons for a team that hasn't had a lot of historical stability at the position.Those numbers are close enough that you didn't have to be a snotty little jerk about it
I meant that he's a guy that can put up good stats but can't bring home the gold, much like Cutler.
People forget that Cutler was the Bears all time leader in attempts, completions, yards, and touchdowns. Good numbers, but not a guy that could get the Bears over the hump. I fear Cousins may have that same kind of (lack of) results when the games get bigger.
Cousins, like Cutler, does not give me a "big game QB" kind of vibe. If you disagree, that's cool.
If I didn't frame it right, that's on me. Jay Cutler just stands out as the poster boy for someone with a lot of talent and a lot of promise that for whatever reason could fill up a stat sheet like a demon but couldn't be counted on in crucial situations / games. I'm coming at it from that vantage point. Cousins seems like a stats machine that can't be counted on to push his team to the promised land. As his stats are slightly better I guess you could call him Jay Cutler Plus.Bia wasn't being a snotty little jerk. He was saying that you're way off base, and he's right. The numbers aren't close at all. That referenced year for Cutler was probably the best of his career. Cousins has had multiple years in a row better than that one. Cousins career QB rating is higher than Cutler's best rating in one season. Cutler is only leading the Bears in all-time stats because he played a lot of seasons for a team that hasn't had a lot of historical stability at the position.
If you want to just boil it down to guys who are reasonably successful, long term starting QBs who don't win a championship, then that's a much different story and a very long list in which Cutler is just a footnote. So that, along with you admitting that Cousins and Cutler have vastly different personalities, makes your comparison a strange one. Surely you can see why this would come across as insulting and/or trolling on a Minnesota Vikings thread?
That was the best season of Cutlers career. His career averages much worse than that.Those numbers are close enough that you didn't have to be a snotty little jerk about it
This is just parroting the long time narrative about Cousins in Washington.I meant that he's a guy that can put up good stats but can't bring home the gold, much like Cutler.
People forget that Cutler was the Bears all time leader in attempts, completions, yards, and touchdowns. Good numbers, but not a guy that could get the Bears over the hump. I fear Cousins may have that same kind of (lack of) results when the games get bigger.
Cousins, like Cutler, does not give me a "big game QB" kind of vibe. If you disagree, that's cool.