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2022 New York Football Giants (under new management of Schoen & Daboll) (2 Viewers)

The Frankman

Footballguy
So if Jones gets to the Tannehill/Garoppolo level, would it be worth keeping him? My answer is no. This is just Stupid 

I dont like Garopollo much ... but he took his team to the SB and lost to a better team and better QB

Tannehill - is 30-13 and has a 102 QB Rating over the last 3 seasons. In 2019 he beat Brady in NE (WC) he beat MVP Lamar Jackson in BAL (Div) and lost to OPoY Mahomes in KC  who went on to beat, guess who in the SB ? ... Garoppolo 

So take away Mahomes and both Tannehill and Garoppolo would likely be Super Bowl 2019 QBs and one of the 2 a Superbowl Winning QB 

There are only 7 active SuperBowl winning QBS (Brady, Rogers, Mahomes, Wilson, Stafford, Foles and Flacco)  

I am not sure what People expect ... Jones is not going to be Brady, Rogers, Mahomes or Wilson. But no reason to think  that he cant be better than Foles or Flacco and no reason to think that he couldnt win a Superbowl on a team as loaded as the Rams were last season 
Garoppolo and Tannehill are the posterchilds for worst case scenario at QB... not bad at QB, but he won't win you games w/o an elite starting cast and more importantly can't win by himself. If Jones has that year and accepts like a 1 year, $15-20 deal that's different. You never want to get locked into mediocrity like Miami was with Tannehill, and the question was "Would that be enough to warrant the franchise tag for 2023 at $31.5 million or an extension with an average salary in that neighborhood?"

 

monk

Footballguy
Garoppolo and Tannehill are the posterchilds for worst case scenario at QB... not bad at QB, but he won't win you games w/o an elite starting cast and more importantly can't win by himself. If Jones has that year and accepts like a 1 year, $15-20 deal that's different. You never want to get locked into mediocrity like Miami was with Tannehill, and the question was "Would that be enough to warrant the franchise tag for 2023 at $31.5 million or an extension with an average salary in that neighborhood?"
What QB wins you games without an elite starting cast or more importantly by himself ???  Answer is None !

Stafford, Brady, Mahomes, and Peyton ... all had an elite cast around them when they won their last SB

Simms, Hostetler, Eli, Foles and Flacco were all good enough to win a SuperBowl ... that's not good enough ?? 

You think Brady would have won a SB with the Giants over the last 3 years ??

 

Yenrub

Footballguy
What QB wins you games without an elite starting cast or more importantly by himself ???  Answer is None !

Stafford, Brady, Mahomes, and Peyton ... all had an elite cast around them when they won their last SB

Simms, Hostetler, Eli, Foles and Flacco were all good enough to win a SuperBowl ... that's not good enough ?? 

You think Brady would have won a SB with the Giants over the last 3 years ??
The franchise tag for QB is around 30M

Assuming Jones makes the jump to Tannehill/Garoppolo level can the Giants afford to pay Jones that franchise amount and put enough pieces around him to be contenders?

They do have some nice young promising players who will still be on rookie deals in 2023 (Anderw Thomas, Evan Neal, K. Toney, Azeez, Kayvon & McKinney) so they might be able to swing it. I think McKinney is the only guy in that last that will be due an extension after this season. 

 

monk

Footballguy
The franchise tag for QB is around 30M

Assuming Jones makes the jump to Tannehill/Garoppolo level can the Giants afford to pay Jones that franchise amount and put enough pieces around him to be contenders?

They do have some nice young promising players who will still be on rookie deals in 2023 (Anderw Thomas, Evan Neal, K. Toney, Azeez, Kayvon & McKinney) so they might be able to swing it. I think McKinney is the only guy in that last that will be due an extension after this season. 
It's $30M 1 Year commitment ... Even if they are drafting a QB it's worth having him for 1 year .  If they decide not to Franchise him it means they need a QB immediately either through free agency,  draft or trade ... non of which are going to be cheap.

Free Agency - Lamar Jackson, Baker Mayfield, Garoppolo, or Hundley  ... All are going to cost alot. Are Mayfield or Garoppolo any better than Jones?? Probably not.  Jackson is,  but is he worth the contract that you are going to have to give him??? ... Running QBs decline very quickly and are subject to injury. Hundley? ... You ready to overpay without a plan B  

Draft  - Obviously No guarantees in the draft  ... you may end up in the same or worse situation and rebuilding in 3 years. I dont Expect the Giants to be drafting in the top 5 next year  ... What draft capital are you going to have to give up to move up to get that  "Sure Thing"  QB? And how likely is that QB going to succeed coming into a bad situation with limited draft capital (due to the trade up)? 

Trade ??? I have no idea who will be available and at what cost.

The Answer is ... take the Jones/ Tannehill / Garoppolo level QB and build an Elite team around him ... the odds are much better then trading draft capital and trying to find the next Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, or Mahomes 

And keep in mind drafting QBs is a crap shoot ...

Brady 5th rd. , Wilson 3rd Rd. , Brees pick 32,  Rodgers pick 24,  Mahomes Pick 10 ... you dont have to mortgage the future to pick a QB

 
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Yenrub

Footballguy
It's $30M 1 Year commitment ... Even if they are drafting a QB it's worth having him for 1 year .  If they decide not to Franchise him it means they need a QB immediately either through free agency,  draft or trade ... non of which are going to be cheap.

Free Agency - Lamar Jackson, Baker Mayfield, Garoppolo, or Hundley  ... All are going to cost alot. Are Mayfield or Garoppolo any better than Jones?? Probably not.  Jackson is,  but is he worth the contract that you are going to have to give him??? ... Running QBs decline very quickly and are subject to injury. Hundley? ... You ready to overpay without a plan B  

Draft  - Obviously No guarantees in the draft  ... you may end up in the same or worse situation and rebuilding in 3 years. I dont Expect the Giants to be drafting in the top 5 next year  ... What draft capital are you going to have to give up to move up to get that  "Sure Thing"  QB? And how likely is that QB going to succeed coming into a bad situation with limited draft capital (due to the trade up)? 

Trade ??? I have no idea who will be available and at what cost.

The Answer is ... take the Jones/ Tannehill / Garoppolo level QB and build an Elite team around him ... the odds are much better then trading draft capital and trying to find the next Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, or Mahomes 

And keep in mind drafting QBs is a crap shoot ...

Brady 5th rd. , Wilson 3rd Rd. , Brees pick 32,  Rodgers pick 24,  Mahomes Pick 10 ... you dont have to mortgage the future to pick a QB
I don't want to talk too much about 2023 before we see what happens in 2022 but I will say that the Giants already have their bridge QB for 2023 on the roster should they want/need to go that route. Tyrod Taylor signed a 2-year 11M contract with the Giants this past offseason.

 

RC94

Footballguy
There's an article at The Athletic where the author gives a thought on each defensive player on the Giants and I thought his paragraph about Leonard Williams was interesting:

• DL Leonard Williams: The poor process involved in acquiring Williams — trading two draft picks for an impending free agent and then making him one of the highest-paid defensive linemen in the league — has tainted the view of the 2015 first-round pick. But Williams has been a productive, reliable, tough player throughout his career. His high character showed when he played through a triceps injury in the final four meaningless games last season.
I must admit, I'm guilty of the first part.  The Giants were ripped off in process and cost of obtaining and keeping him, so I've been against him more than he deserves.  It's a sunk cost at this point and Gettleman is gone.  Considering it's a sunk cost, like so many other Gettleman moves that have literally sunk this team, he's been a good player with the Giants and I like to hear that he's high character.  

 

monk

Footballguy
Revisting Giants Bears Trade now that it has been completed 

Which scenerio would you chose  ... Would you take the guarenteed All-Pro (Parsons or Slater) or would you take your chances with Toney and Bellinger. 

I think I would stick with what we ended up with however I wish we had made a better choice with pick 20 last year. There is a strong chance that Toney will bust or Bellinger doesnt pan out ... We also used one of the acquired picks to trade up to get Robinson who is likely to start at 1 of the corner spots. However there is a chance he would have been there anyway so I am not including him  

  • Parsons / Neal 
  • Slater / Thibodeux 
  • Thibodeaux  / Neal / Toney / Bellinger 
 

The Frankman

Footballguy
(The Athletic) N.Y. Giants training camp: 5 intriguing position battles to watch this summer
 

Brian Daboll has promised a clean slate for players since he was hired as Giants coach in January. That leads to uncertainty with the depth chart, as returning players are mixed with newcomers signed and drafted by Daboll and new general manager Joe Schoen.

Here’s a look at the five biggest position battles that will be settled over the next seven weeks before the Giants’ Sept. 11 season opener:

Wide receiver

There isn’t direct competition for one spot at wide receiver because there will be anywhere from two to four wideouts on the field each play. But it’s unclear how the depth chart will shape up.

Kenny Golladay, Kadarius Toney and Wan’Dale Robinson are locks to see significant action, while Sterling Shepard will be in the mix once he’s cleared to return from a torn Achilles. Toney, Robinson and Shepard have some overlap in their skill sets, so it will be interesting to see how they fit together. Shepard is the most polished receiver of the group, so he should maintain a prominent role if healthy. Toney and Robinson are shifty playmakers who can get the ball in a variety of ways.

There will be a competition for the fifth and sixth spots, with Darius Slayton, Richie James and C.J. Board the leading candidates. Slayton has been far more productive than the other options, but the Giants would create $2.5 million in cap savings if they cut/trade him, and he doesn’t provide any value on special teams. James, who can return kicks, took advantage in the spring of most of the top receivers missing time with injuries, while Board has been a steady backup receiver and a quality special-teamer over the past two seasons.

Tight end

Rookie fourth-round pick Daniel Bellinger surprisingly got extensive work with the first-team offense during the spring. Bellinger wasn’t a dynamic receiver at San Diego State, but he has reliable hands and the blocking ability to be the most well-rounded tight end on the roster.

Bellinger enters training camp on the physically unable to perform list with a quad injury. Depending on the length of his stay on the PUP list, he could fall behind in the competition for the No. 1 tight end job.

Bellinger’s primary competition will be veterans Ricky Seals-Jones and Jordan Akins. Seals-Jones has flashed some receiving skills during his five-year career, but he’s never been a No. 1 tight end. Akins, who spent four years playing minor-league baseball before transitioning to football in 2014, is mostly a receiving threat like Seals-Jones. Akins played for Giants tight ends coach Andy Bischoff with the Texans last season, which could give him a leg up in the competition.

In an ideal world, Bellinger would establish himself as the No. 1 tight end. But there could be situational rotating at this position, with Seals-Jones or Akins seeing more action in passing situations.

Left guard

This seemed like more of a position battle early in the offseason when the Giants signed Max Garcia, who has made 52 career starts, and drafted Joshua Ezeudu in the third round. But 2020 fifth-round pick Shane Lemieux took every first-team rep in the open practices this spring. Meanwhile, Garcia wasn’t even locked in as the No. 2 left guard, and Ezeudu spent extensive time as the first-team left tackle with Andrew Thomas sidelined by an ankle injury.

Garcia isn’t even a lock to make the roster, so pushing for a starting job seems unlikely. Ezeudu could enter the equation if Thomas is fully healthy, but Lemieux enters camp with a strong hold on the job. Lemieux showed promise as a run blocker in nine starts as a rookie, but there were major pass-protection issues.

Lemieux started the opener last year but lasted just 17 snaps before suffering a torn patellar tendon that required season-ending surgery. It’s clear that the new coaching staff had a strong opinion of Lemieux during the 2020 draft process while in Buffalo, so he should get an opportunity to show his development after a lost second season.

Inside linebacker

The expectation is that Blake Martinez will reclaim his role as the top inside linebacker after tearing his ACL in Week 3 last season. Tae Crowder has made 23 starts over the past two seasons, so he has the inside track for the spot next to Martinez. But Crowder’s subpar performance leaves the door open to competition, especially after the new regime used two Day 3 draft picks on inside linebackers.

It’s probably overly ambitious to expect fifth-round pick Micah McFadden or sixth-round pick Darrian Beavers to win a starting job in camp, but one could take over eventually depending on his rate of development. Carter Coughlin hasn’t played much during his first two seasons, but he’s another option to push Crowder. Despite all of the challengers, Crowder’s experience gives him a big advantage as camp begins.

Slot cornerback

The Giants will have new starters at multiple positions in the secondary, but the expectation is that Aaron Robinson will take over as the No. 2 cornerback and Julian Love will be the strong safety. The most intrigue is at slot cornerback, where veteran Darnay Holmes will battle rookie third-round pick Cor’Dale Flott for the starting job.

A 2020 fourth-round pick, Holmes has seen his role fluctuate during his first two seasons. He has made nine starts but has also had stretches when he barely played. He has also lost time to injuries, missing the final six games last season with a rib ailment.

The new regime obviously sees potential in Flott, but the 6-foot-1, 175-pounder likely will need time to develop physically so he can handle the toll of playing the run from the slot position. Holmes should be able to hold on to the starting job through camp, but Flott will be waiting in the wings to take over.

(Photo of Daniel Bellinger: John Jones / USA Today)

 
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Yenrub

Footballguy
Giants place the following players on the PUP list

Nick Gates OL

Matt Peart OL

Sterling Shepard WR

Giants placed Azeez Ojulari on the reserve/non football injury list with a hamstring injury

 

Yenrub

Footballguy
Day 3

OL has issues on the interior. Starting center Feliciano, was given the day off and Big Dex took advantage 

Darnay Holmes is trying to stake his claim to the starting slot CB spot with his 3rd strong day in a row

Safety Xavier McKinney is currently the defensive signal caller 

 

Yenrub

Footballguy
Toney thinks this offense gives WR a better chance to "win" than the previous scheme 

https://www.nj.com/giants/2022/07/why-kadarius-toney-thinks-brian-dabolls-offense-gives-giants-receivers-better-chance-to-win-matchups-than-jason-garretts-scheme.html

“Instead of just running it technical and all that,” Toney said. “It gives you a chance to win [against a defender], instead of just having to do it a certain way every time. The coaches can only draw up a play. We’ve got to execute it, at the end of the day.”

 

Yenrub

Footballguy
The Giants starters are expected to play in the 1st preseason game tomorrow night.
I though Judge was wrong for not playing starters last year. This is a young team trying to learn a new system on both sides of the ball. They need some live reps against other teams.
I don't think the starters will play long but 2 series would be nice to see
 

The Frankman

Footballguy
The Giants starters are expected to play in the 1st preseason game tomorrow night.
I though Judge was wrong for not playing starters last year. This is a young team trying to learn a new system on both sides of the ball. They need some live reps against other teams.
I don't think the starters will play long but 2 series would be nice to see
Yep. This is a make or break year for a lot of guys, they need preseason reps to see where they stand and what they need to work on. If they suck, great; now they'll have something to workfocus on in practice the following week.
 

Yenrub

Footballguy
Good opening drive of the preseason for the Giants offense

Saquon didn’t try to bounce on any of his 4 carries. He didn’t get a ton of yards but that is ok. He also had a catch on a 3rd down which converted

Jones had one bad pass to his left where he missed a wide open receiver high (I don’t recall who the target was). Jones also ran for a 1st down on a 3rd and 5.

Golladay ran a lazy route and dropped what probably been a TD

Giants settle for FG
 

Yenrub

Footballguy
2nd series

Thomas & Lemieux replaced by Hamilton & Ezeudu on the left side of the OL

Saquon replaced by Brightwell

Jones still in at QB

This drive wasn’t good. The backups on the left side weren’t very good.

Giants converted one 1st down but after that they gave up a sack and a hurry, Giants forced to punt
 

Yenrub

Footballguy
Lemieux left game with an injured toe. The plan was for him to get some reps at center tonight be he will not return
 

Yenrub

Footballguy
3rd series – all backups

Taylor had them moving well but Colin Johnson fumbled after a nice catch and run.

Good play by the DB who punched the ball out.

The Giants have not used any motion yet in this game.



Defensively Aaron Robinson was picked on quite a bit on the Patriots second drive. He drew a couple penalties and gave up the TD. He did have one nice pass breakup recovering after getting beat long. He needs work!!
 

The Frankman

Footballguy
Colin Johnson 7/83 so far. I don't know if he plays ST (will check) but to me him and Richie James should make the team. Slayton is roster spot walking at this point.

EDIT: The Giants CBs have not looked good this game.
 

Mister CIA

Footballguy
Colin Johnson 7/83 so far. I don't know if he plays ST (will check) but to me him and Richie James should make the team. Slayton is roster spot walking at this point.

EDIT: The Giants CBs have not looked good this game.
I hope Richie James constantly yells at the defenders, "I'm Richie James, #####." He made a nice spin move off the line of scrimmage to get open on the goal line.
 

The Frankman

Footballguy
LOL @ that stat

Saquon Barkley prior to this year had 6 preseason snaps
in the Giants 1st preseason game he had 5 touches :biggrin:
 
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monk

Footballguy
didn't watch the game but I like the 177yds rushing 5.4 ypc team stat.
Running backs looked very good. Brightwell was running very hard and Corbin looks pretty damn good. They all had receptions as well.
Couple of disappointments ... as mentioned the CBs. particularly Robinson, looked horrible. Flott actually looked pretty good.
Bellinger had a bad hold that brought back a 17 yd run by Brightwell, Ezudu had a hold, Golladay looks terrible and Lemiuex injuried early.
Lemiuex has been getting a ton of hype and is now considered a crucial piece of the Oline ... If he is out for any significant time it will be a huge blow to the Oline. Jamil Douglas also left with an injury. Center depth is depleted.
 
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titusbramble

Footballguy
2nd series

Thomas & Lemieux replaced by Hamilton & Ezeudu on the left side of the OL

Saquon replaced by Brightwell

What's the outlook for the RB situation behind Barkley in general? I had Brightwell stashed on taxi squad last season, may need to cut when it comes down to it but I can't imagine that if anything were to happen to Barkley that they just give Brieda all the work?
 

monk

Footballguy
I'd take my chances with Sills , Bachman and Collin Johnson over Golladay and Toney if it were in any way possible. These guys want to play and have a rapport with the QBs
Golladay and Toney just dont seem to give a **** ... I was at the game behind the Giants sideline last night and Toney was no where to be found
Other injured players were there suited up or in street clothes ... but I couldn't find Toney.
 

Yenrub

Footballguy
Darrian Beavers torn ACL
Thibodeaux sprained MCL - out 3-4 weeks.
Good news on Thibodeaux, terrible news on Beavers. I liked what I saw of Beavers so far this camp. I think he would have moved into the starting role opposite Martinez by mid-season
The Giants really need to look into replacing that turf at Met-Life
 

kodycutter

Footballguy

"All transactions are injury-related: Beavers, TE Ricky Seals-Jones (the mystery injury: toe) and TE Andre Miller to IR, so they're done for the year. OL Matt Peart and OL Nick Gates to reserve/PUP, so they'll miss at least the first four games of the season."

edit:
@DDuggan21

"The biggest news here is that Sterling Shepard wasn't moved to the reserve/PUP list. So he can still be activated before Week 1. He's trending in the right direction."
 
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kodycutter

Footballguy
I'd take my chances with Sills , Bachman and Collin Johnson over Golladay and Toney if it were in any way possible. These guys want to play and have a rapport with the QBs
Golladay and Toney just dont seem to give a **** ... I was at the game behind the Giants sideline last night and Toney was no where to be found
Other injured players were there suited up or in street clothes ... but I couldn't find Toney.

"...The guys that have been out there and producing, Collin Johnson, David Sills, they’ve stepped their game up. And they’re right in the mix, not just to make a team but to play,” Daboll told reporters on Monday. “Everybody’s got to earn their job, earn their role, do a good job of the things they need to do, and make the most of their opportunities when they get them....."
 

kodycutter

Footballguy
Field Yates
@FieldYat
"The Giants claimed WR Bailey Gather and WR Jaylon Moore off of waivers from the Ravens, while claiming DB Harrison Hand off of waivers from the Vikings.

TE Jordan Akins was cut, while WR Collin Johnson and WR Marcus Kemp were sent to IR."

**********

reading that it was an Achilles for Collin Johnson.
 

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