2023 New York Jets (6 Viewers)

[TLEF316]

I would agree with this.

On the other hand, I heard noise about the Jets and Ruggs if the OL that they want isn't there. Perriman and Ruggs certainly would stretch the field and there's not a coach that can really mess that up. Crowder and Bell could then work underneath, as is their skill set.

For the record, I actually lump Ruggs in with the other 2 as the "big receivers".   His size might make him a little less valued as a prospect but he's electric as hell and stronger than his frame might indicate. And its not like Jeudy or Lamb are Calvin Johnson.  

In an ideal world, they could trade down a few spots and still get Ruggs (if that's the route they choose to go) but that's not likely. 

In a super perfect world, maybe they'd get an OT at 11 and then Jefferson in the 2nd. But I realize that's a pipe dream. His 40 time likely pushes him into the first round

 

[rockaction]

For the record, I actually lump Ruggs in with the other 2 as the "big receivers".   His size might make him a little less valued as a prospect but he's electric as hell and stronger than his frame might indicate. And its not like Jeudy or Lamb are Calvin Johnson. 

I agree with you about the first two sentences. As for the bold font, I simply say "indeed."

I don't think they can trade down and still get Ruggs. I think he's gone rather quickly in this draft.

 

[NYRAGE]

I agree with you about the first two sentences. As for the bold font, I simply say "indeed."

I don't think they can trade down and still get Ruggs. I think he's gone rather quickly in this draft.

That was my first reaction as well. That 11-15. range: The Raiders, SF, and Denver are all possible/probably WR spots.  I think Ruggs is gone by 15 at the latest.

As far as Gase goes, I keep reading/seeing players praise Gase, but I didn't see it in games at all last year. A lot of coaches change their scheme to fit the skillset of their players, but not Gase.  He seems very stubborn. It's as if he inherited a bunch of players that didn't fit his scheme, but forced them into it last year (Bell being the biggest example).

There were times that it seemed like he was content to give up, especially when Darnold was out.  First down, run for a yard. Second down? Let's not throw. We'll run again. Third down, let's get ready to punt again by running on third and 8. 

With Darnold at times, it felt the opposite.  We can dump it off to Bell for an easy 5-6 yards, but no, let's force it down the field. Last year made no sense at all.  Gase can blame having the wrong personnel, but he won't have that excuse this year. JD is already molding the o-line to his scheme. They have had a chance to sign free agents to what he wants and will draft for their scheme, too.

As far as Darnold goes, maybe I'm biased, but I expect big things. Yeah, he does make some dumb plays at times, but he also makes some incredible throws.  Hopefully he won't be running for his life again and we'll see some of those riskier plays go away.  Darnold has had the worst o-line and worst offensive weapons in the league (ignoring the bad coaching for now). Kyler Murray got weapons. Mayfield got weapons. Josh Allen got weapons. Even Lamar Jackson got weapons. Darnold has gotten crap.

Once he gets an improved o-line and some receivers, I fully expect him to be a consistent top 10-15 QB going forward. He has that kind of skill.

 

[rockaction]

Once he gets an improved o-line and some receivers, I fully expect him to be a consistent top 10-15 QB going forward. He has that kind of skill.

PFF subscriber here. His secondary numbers don't look good. His aDOT is terrible, his real accuracy rating is bottom third, his rating under pressure is bottom third, etc. I'm not sold. I'm glad you see that in him, because you seem to know your football.

That's at least something I can be heartened by.

An aside: You'd love the dynasty team I'm running. I offered some trades that got rejected and I'm thrilled they did. COVID has caused me to go stir crazy with bad ideas. Help is needed.

 

[NYRAGE]

PFF subscriber here. His secondary numbers don't look good. His aDOT is terrible, his real accuracy rating is bottom third, his rating under pressure is bottom third, etc. I'm not sold. I'm glad you see that in him, because you seem to know your football.

That's at least something I can be heartened by.

An aside: You'd love the dynasty team I'm running. I offered some trades that got rejected and I'm thrilled they did. COVID has caused me to go stir crazy with bad ideas. Help is needed.

Depends on how you feel about PFF I guess. I'm not a fan.  I do appreciate the service of providing a player rating because what else is out there? It doesn't make them right though.

 

[rockaction]

Depends on how you feel about PFF I guess. I'm not a fan.  I do appreciate the service of providing a player rating because what else is out there? It doesn't make them right though.

True. And I've questioned the process and result numerous times. They get guys off the street like me to watch games and note where the players are. Scouts and teams swear by them, though, so there's that.

But I was also talking quantifiable stats, not opinions or rankings. Those carry more weight with me, I guess.

 

[NYRAGE]

True. And I've questioned the process and result numerous times. They get guys off the street like me to watch games and note where the players are. Scouts and teams swear by them, though, so there's that.

But I was also talking quantifiable stats, not opinions or rankings. Those carry more weight with me, I guess.

Do they? Not being snarky. I mean they basically called Darryl Roberts a stud at one point.

What's a quantifiable stat? How far a ball travels? Sure.  A lot of it seems subjective to me. I won't pretend to know football like I know hockey.  I've actually scouted hockey and I'm pretty sure it was mostly subjective based on my observations. 

Anyway, there is a PFF thread on here somewhere, so I won't derail the Jets thread with my doubts about PFF. I do think they were geniuses to fill this niche needed for player ratings.

I still think Darnold has it to eventually be top 10-15. That's not an overly aggressive prediction. I wouldn't bet on it one way or another either. I'm not a football scout. I can probably get you to win your fantasy football leagues though.

 

[rockaction]

Do they? Not being snarky. I mean they basically called Darryl Roberts a stud at one point.

What's a quantifiable stat? How far a ball travels? Sure.  A lot of it seems subjective to me. I won't pretend to know football like I know hockey.  I've actually scouted hockey and I'm pretty sure it was mostly subjective based on my observations. 

Anyway, there is a PFF thread on here somewhere, so I won't derail the Jets thread with my doubts about PFF. I do think they were geniuses to fill this niche needed for player ratings.

I still think Darnold has it to eventually be top 10-15. That's not an overly aggressive prediction. I wouldn't bet on it one way or another either. I'm not a football scout. I can probably get you to win your fantasy football leagues though.

Yeah, a lot of scouting has to be very subjective. It's in the nature of the business, one would think. I'd have loved to get your scouting report on me in high school. I think I would have gotten a kick out of that. Weak upper body, can't skate, etc.

I would say a quantifiable stat is a little more than just a ball traveling a certain distance but I don't want to derail the thread, either; so we can probably discuss that a different day.

Darnold has talent, no doubt. I hope he's got enough experience and talent around him to shine. PFF ran an article about wasting his rookie contract. I'll see if I can find it and if it's not behind a paywall, I'll post it. It is behind a paywall. Here's an excerpt. Words about Gase and scheme:

"Darnold doesn’t have an offense that makes his life any easier right now. In none of PFF’s coaching metrics or ways of evaluating play-callers or scheme has Adam Gase ever separated himself at the top, and right now the scheme is asking things of Darnold that he is unable to consistently deliver, in part because of the lack of help. It’s not that the Jets' scheme is particularly crippling, but in none of the ways of manufacturing easier plays for quarterbacks — motion, bunch formations, empty sets, play action percentage, RPOs, etc. — do they rank among the highest users in the league. The scheme is not working to elevate the level of its quarterback. Rather, the scheme is waiting for its young quarterback to elevate it."

Huh. They also rip the receivers and the O-line signings, which you've pointed out is schematically influenced. 

 

[NYRAGE]

Yeah, a lot of scouting has to be very subjective. It's in the nature of the business, one would think. I'd have loved to get your scouting report on me in high school. I think I would have gotten a kick out of that. Weak upper body, can't skate, etc.

I would say a quantifiable stat is a little more than just a ball traveling a certain distance but I don't want to derail the thread, either; so we can probably discuss that a different day.

Darnold has talent, no doubt. I hope he's got enough experience and talent around him to shine. PFF ran an article about wasting his rookie contract. I'll see if I can find it and if it's not behind a paywall, I'll post it. It is behind a paywall. Here's an excerpt. Words about Gase and scheme:

"Darnold doesn’t have an offense that makes his life any easier right now. In none of PFF’s coaching metrics or ways of evaluating play-callers or scheme has Adam Gase ever separated himself at the top, and right now the scheme is asking things of Darnold that he is unable to consistently deliver, in part because of the lack of help. It’s not that the Jets' scheme is particularly crippling, but in none of the ways of manufacturing easier plays for quarterbacks — motion, bunch formations, empty sets, play action percentage, RPOs, etc. — do they rank among the highest users in the league. The scheme is not working to elevate the level of its quarterback. Rather, the scheme is waiting for its young quarterback to elevate it."

Huh. They also rip the receivers and the O-line signings, which you've pointed out is schematically influenced. 

I would have focused on your intangibles.

I've been watching some film breakdowns on offensive tackles and WRs since those are 2 positions that we will be focusing on. I don't know much about linemen techniques, so it's interesting to me.

A lot of these film breakdown guys just end up contradicting each other though. This Voch Lombardi guy was a fun watch.

Bechton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxqLBMKbkHc

Wills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSZRUOq1y0M

Wirfs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c986quO8Jo

Thomas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM_qTUNJHwo

I was also watching a video breakdown of of Robby Anderson by some Carolina Panthers fan. He starts off with a lot of people say that Anderson can only run deep go routes, but he can do much more. He showed one clip where the CB didn't press Anderson and there was no safety help to the sideline, just deep. Anderson basically runs around the CB really fast and goes to the empty sideline for the pass. No moves, just rounded his route wide and used his speed. I guess you see what you want to see. A decent CB would have pushed him off his route.  His other examples were also of Anderson just running straight past CBs. No other moves like beating the jam on the line or any double moves. At least show the weaknesses. Sometimes these guys just find examples to prove their narrative. It's suspect if they don't show both strengths and weaknesses.

 

[NYRAGE]

Interesting article about JD's scouting grading system. It's from Manish of all people. A rare non-hit piece.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-joe-douglas-draft-scouts-evaluating-roster-grading-20200407-lo6l56dqjnesndljbhvs6wlani-story.html

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Interesting article about JD's scouting grading system. It's from Manish of all people. A rare non-hit piece.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-joe-douglas-draft-scouts-evaluating-roster-grading-20200407-lo6l56dqjnesndljbhvs6wlani-story.html

It is a good article. While the system makes sense my only fear is that drafting players to fit a specific system can backfire when that system goes away. I don't have much faith in Gase being here long term. Obviously I hope I'm wrong as that would mean the team is having success - but I have concerns.

 

[NYRAGE]

It is a good article. While the system makes sense my only fear is that drafting players to fit a specific system can backfire when that system goes away. I don't have much faith in Gase being here long term. Obviously I hope I'm wrong as that would mean the team is having success - but I have concerns.

He will be here to torture us for the whole term of his contract with our luck.

 

[Sweet Love]

It is a good article. While the system makes sense my only fear is that drafting players to fit a specific system can backfire when that system goes away. I don't have much faith in Gase being here long term. Obviously I hope I'm wrong as that would mean the team is having success - but I have concerns.

We seem to do a lot of that - drafting very specific players for a system, tossing the coach, then getting rid of the players who do not fit the next guy.  I know it happens across the league, but when you change coaches as frequently as the Jets, it just gets magnified.

 

[NYRAGE]

We seem to do a lot of that - drafting very specific players for a system, tossing the coach, then getting rid of the players who do not fit the next guy.  I know it happens across the league, but when you change coaches as frequently as the Jets, it just gets magnified.

I don't agree with the approach because what is the average shelf life of a coach? 3 seasons? Maybe it works for NE since BB is a coach for life.

I don't feel as though we have done it in the past though. Only to the extent of a 3-4 defense vs a 4-3, but most teams do that. If anything, our past GMs have been pretty clueless and out of tune with their coaches.  They've drafted players that weren't necessarily a fit for our team and tried to fit them into square pegs, e.g Coples, Gholston, Darron Lee. For a long time, it feels like we've had a mix-mash of players in a 3-4 that may have been better-suited in a 4-3. At least Williams used a hybrid system and seems to have gotten the most out of his ill-fitted players.

The problem is that these idiot owners never hire a GM and Coach at the same time and they seem to never be aligned. Tannenbaum was fired but they kept Rex. They didn't gel. Bowles and Macan't also had issues.  Bowles was fired and Gase didn't participate in the draft process with Maccagnan.  Even our position coaches weren't aligned with draft players (e.g Pepper Johnson).

Gase will take it to another extreme with specific types of o-line and WRs that he prefers. However, whose to say that JD doesn't prefer to build the team in a similar way. It's too early to know. I feel like JD has a plan. For now, it seems as if they are aligned. How long Gase lasts is another story.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On that note, what are you guys thinking about our first pick?

For a while I was leaning to WR, but I think we need to address OT with our first pick. If they don't like what's left at 11, I could see them trading down in the first instead of taking the WR at 11.

 

[rockaction]

I don't agree with the approach because what is the average shelf life of a coach? 3 seasons? Maybe it works for NE since BB is a coach for life.

I don't feel as though we have done it in the past though. Only to the extent of a 3-4 defense vs a 4-3, but most teams do that. If anything, our past GMs have been pretty clueless and out of tune with their coaches.  They've drafted players that weren't necessarily a fit for our team and tried to fit them into square pegs, e.g Coples, Gholston, Darron Lee. For a long time, it feels like we've had a mix-mash of players in a 3-4 that may have been better-suited in a 4-3. At least Williams used a hybrid system and seems to have gotten the most out of his ill-fitted players.

The problem is that these idiot owners never hire a GM and Coach at the same time and they seem to never be aligned. Tannenbaum was fired but they kept Rex. They didn't gel. Bowles and Macan't also had issues.  Bowles was fired and Gase didn't participate in the draft process with Maccagnan.  Even our position coaches weren't aligned with draft players (e.g Pepper Johnson).

Gase will take it to another extreme with specific types of o-line and WRs that he prefers. However, whose to say that JD doesn't prefer to build the team in a similar way. It's too early to know. I feel like JD has a plan. For now, it seems as if they are aligned. How long Gase lasts is another story.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On that note, what are you guys thinking about our first pick?

For a while I was leaning to WR, but I think we need to address OT with our first pick. If they don't like what's left at 11, I could see them trading down in the first instead of taking the WR at 11.

Totally agree with everything above the line. Why now? Why with Gase, of all people?

Below the line, PFF leans WR. Feels it's more important to get him weapons than protect him. I should say that they believe guys getting open will be the best protection. I disagree, but at that point, my opinion is just like a...well...you know.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I don't agree with the approach because what is the average shelf life of a coach? 3 seasons? Maybe it works for NE since BB is a coach for life.

I don't feel as though we have done it in the past though. Only to the extent of a 3-4 defense vs a 4-3, but most teams do that. If anything, our past GMs have been pretty clueless and out of tune with their coaches.  They've drafted players that weren't necessarily a fit for our team and tried to fit them into square pegs, e.g Coples, Gholston, Darron Lee. For a long time, it feels like we've had a mix-mash of players in a 3-4 that may have been better-suited in a 4-3. At least Williams used a hybrid system and seems to have gotten the most out of his ill-fitted players.

The problem is that these idiot owners never hire a GM and Coach at the same time and they seem to never be aligned. Tannenbaum was fired but they kept Rex. They didn't gel. Bowles and Macan't also had issues.  Bowles was fired and Gase didn't participate in the draft process with Maccagnan.  Even our position coaches weren't aligned with draft players (e.g Pepper Johnson).

Gase will take it to another extreme with specific types of o-line and WRs that he prefers. However, whose to say that JD doesn't prefer to build the team in a similar way. It's too early to know. I feel like JD has a plan. For now, it seems as if they are aligned. How long Gase lasts is another story.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On that note, what are you guys thinking about our first pick?

For a while I was leaning to WR, but I think we need to address OT with our first pick. If they don't like what's left at 11, I could see them trading down in the first instead of taking the WR at 11.

I'm still on the OT wagon at 11 - but wouldn't be upset in they went Jeudy or Lamb. If they can get one of the lesser hyped OTs by trading down, I'll be ok with that as well.

I just can't trust Fant at LT with no fall back option. He has potential but it's too important of a position to trust to a project.

 

[NYRAGE]

I'm still on the OT wagon at 11 - but wouldn't be upset in they went Jeudy or Lamb. If they can get one of the lesser hyped OTs by trading down, I'll be ok with that as well.

I just can't trust Fant at LT with no fall back option. He has potential but it's too important of a position to trust to a project.

I think I'm even more worried about Edoga than Fant.

Although the allure of a top 3 WR is strong, I think we can get very good WRs in rounds 2 and later. Not so much for OT. 

I was listening to a former 0-Line coach talk about the prospects.  He thinks the top 4 (although flawed) plus Jones will be first year starters.  He thinks Jackson will be a starter some day, but needs a lot of work pass blocking. Then he said perhaps Wilson, Niang, and Peart might have a chance of starting years down the road. He didn't think we had a chance to get any of the top 6 by our second round pick. If that's the case, then we would have to get our guy at 11 or Jones in the 15-25 range. Jackson probably goes early second round or end of the first round. So, I think it makes the most sense to take our OT at 11. Wilson is probably in the same range (but probably doesn't fit our system).

Now, if JD has Jones rated about the same as the last OT in the top 4, he could trade down a bit to get Jones, but even that is risky because there are a lot of o-line needy teams.

 

[NYRAGE]

Totally agree with everything above the line. Why now? Why with Gase, of all people?

Below the line, PFF leans WR. Feels it's more important to get him weapons than protect him. I should say that they believe guys getting open will be the best protection. I disagree, but at that point, my opinion is just like a...well...you know.

I side with you on this one. That's scary. ha.

 

[Kiddnets]

1 week away - seems like the consensus is take one of the top 4 OTs if there...if not pivot to WR.....I agree with that

Im fine taking any of the big 4 OL if there....id rather not trade up or down unless blown away....I think #11 is a good spot to be.  

As for the WRs - assuming they have their pick of all 3 I prefer Jeudy or Lamb over Ruggs...those smaller speedster guys are more miss than hit....for every Tyreek there are more Tavin Austin and John Ross flops.  Id rather have the taller/all around WR.  

Only way I am upset is if they go defense.....I dont care what the value is - the offense has been ignored too long....pick must be OL/WR

 

[NYRAGE]

Lots of speculation building up that Adams might get traded by Thursday. Not sure about that, but we'll see. Should be an interesting week.  We should learn about the fates of Fournette (who cares), Ngakoue (longshot), and Trent Williams (interesting) this week.

 

[TLEF316]

I dont feel like safeties are that important, but who the hell knows how much of the Greg Williams'  "making chicken salad out of mostly chicken ####"  job that he did with the defense was Adams running around like superman all season?

Trading Adams sends a bad message to the current players. Its also puts a TON of pressure on Douglas to basically hit every draft pick they get for him out of the park.

 

[NYRAGE]

I dont feel like safeties are that important, but who the hell knows how much of the Greg Williams'  "making chicken salad out of mostly chicken ####"  job that he did with the defense was Adams running around like superman all season?

Trading Adams sends a bad message to the current players. Its also puts a TON of pressure on Douglas to basically hit every draft pick they get for him out of the park.

The most important positions on a team are QB, Edge, LT (RT is becoming important, too) , and it used to be CB as well.

We may have a QB. I think we do, but not proven yet.  No tackles. No edge, and no CB. Just shows you how bad Maccagnan was at building a team.

JD may want to keep Adams, but maybe he sees this as an opportunity to rebuild the team properly with assets from the only player worth anything.

 

[Kiddnets]

Adams is a tough one - while he plays a luxury position at safety and will require a big contract to be kept - unless they are blown away by an offer (Im talking 2 #1s) then IMO you keep him.  He is a top player and the heart/soul of the defense.  He reminds me of my favorite player Jason Kidd from back in the day - he is not only a great player but he makes those around him better.  The Jets have no winners and/or personality - Adams has both.  He can be a social media pain but the guys balls out when its time to play and team mates love him.....Jets havent drafted a player this good since Revis....I dont think they can afford to trade him away for glorified lotto tickets.  They have the cap room and can afford the raise....so unless those teams come armed with a crazy offer then I hope JD sits tight and extends him during or after the season.  No need ot rish with 3 yrs of control pending....

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I dont feel like safeties are that important, but who the hell knows how much of the Greg Williams'  "making chicken salad out of mostly chicken ####"  job that he did with the defense was Adams running around like superman all season?

Trading Adams sends a bad message to the current players. Its also puts a TON of pressure on Douglas to basically hit every draft pick they get for him out of the park.

I get strong safety is nor a priority position in today's NFL but this guy is a play-maker plain and simple. I also agree it would send a terrible message to the rest of the team.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

JD may want to keep Adams, but maybe he sees this as an opportunity to rebuild the team properly with assets from the only player worth anything.

The thing is you need guys that can play more than just guys that play a certain position. Adams brings so much to the table.

I get your overall point and we've said the same thing for four years now (how the Jets were weakest at the most key positions). I just think you also need to keep as many great players as you can as well. Take Adams off this defense and they take a huge step back. Is that worth a late first and third?

 

[NYRAGE]

The thing is you need guys that can play more than just guys that play a certain position. Adams brings so much to the table.

I get your overall point and we've said the same thing for four years now (how the Jets were weakest at the most key positions). I just think you also need to keep as many great players as you can as well. Take Adams off this defense and they take a huge step back. Is that worth a late first and third?

If that's the offer, then no, but whose to say that's what we would get? It all depends on the offer. You're right, there's no guarantee that a late first round pick turns out to be a good player, but if that's the best offer, then pass. Just hold on to him.

If a team like Cleveland (#10) or Oakland (#12) makes an offer and includes a future first or a second and third round pick, then sure I would.  It gets murky around Dallas's pick.

If you look at this team now, we have almost no talent. Our two biggest talents are on 2 of the least valuable positions (SS and RB). Three if you count Mosely and that's another less than optimal position ($17.5m on a MLB). Mosley is good, but is he that good? Maccagnan was just awful.  That's just horrible roster construction.

 If I could turn that one very good player into 2 potentially good players, I would (and keep $16-18 m in cap space). Let's say we can get a top 12 pick. That's a OT right there. Use our pick on a WR.  Use a second on an edge. Use the two thirds on another WR and another inside lineman. Use the 4th for a RB.  Plus we have another piece (or two) from the trade whether it's this year or next. Sign Jefferson (cut by Baltimore to be our new strong safety) and Ryan for CB. I think our team would be much better. Just my opinion.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If that's the offer, then no, but whose to say that's what we would get? It all depends on the offer. You're right, there's no guarantee that a late first round pick turns out to be a good player, but if that's the best offer, then pass. Just hold on to him.

If a team like Cleveland (#10) or Oakland (#12) makes an offer and includes a future first or a second and third round pick, then sure I would.  It gets murky around Dallas's pick.

If you look at this team now, we have almost no talent. Our two biggest talents are on 2 of the least valuable positions (SS and RB). Three if you count Mosely and that's another less than optimal position ($17.5m on a MLB). Mosley is good, but is he that good? Maccagnan was just awful.  That's just horrible roster construction.

 If I could turn that one very good player into 2 potentially good players, I would (and keep $16-18 m in cap space). Let's say we can get a top 12 pick. That's a OT right there. Use our pick on a WR.  Use a second on an edge. Use the two thirds on another WR and another inside lineman. Use the 4th for a RB.  Plus we have another piece (or two) from the trade whether it's this year or next. Sign Jefferson (cut by Baltimore to be our new strong safety) and Ryan for CB. I think our team would be much better. Just my opinion.

Sure, I'm not advocating keeping him at any price - but the offers I am hearing are along the lines of what I laid out (1 and 3).

Now if they received a Godfather type offer - see you later Adams.

 

[NYRAGE]

Sure, I'm not advocating keeping him at any price - but the offers I am hearing are along the lines of what I laid out (1 and 3).

Now if they received a Godfather type offer - see you later Adams.

I actually think it's much ado about nothing. I don't think he will be traded.

I believe that Adams is frustrated by not getting paid yet, but why should the Jets pay him when the Jets still own 3 years of team control.  I'm not hearing that there are any real offers now. A lot of this is media driven.  Even Jane Slater came out and said that Dallas hasn't even talked to the Jets.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I actually think it's much ado about nothing. I don't think he will be traded.

I believe that Adams is frustrated by not getting paid yet, but why should the Jets pay him when the Jets still own 3 years of team control.  I'm not hearing that there are any real offers now. A lot of this is media driven.  Even Jane Slater came out and said that Dallas hasn't even talked to the Jets.

Yea Dallas is the big rumor - but how could they even afford to pay him what he wants? They still haven't even locked up Dak yet.

 

[NYRAGE]

Yea Dallas is the big rumor - but how could they even afford to pay him what he wants? They still haven't even locked up Dak yet.

Yeah, as soon as they signed Cooper for $20m, I thought well that eliminates Dallas from any future Adams deal.  They have a lot of high priced players on that team

 

[Kiddnets]

Yeah, as soon as they signed Cooper for $20m, I thought well that eliminates Dallas from any future Adams deal.  They have a lot of high priced players on that team

It was rumored that JD wanted RT Collins as part of the deal....his salary is about $5M so only need to use $2M on him this year...Dallas has more cap room next year to play with to give him his big contract in 2021.........I could see a deal for Collins, #17 and a future 2d or 3rd rder....I hate to give up Adams but a starting upgraded RT, with a WR and LT in the 1st rd along with another future pick would be a pretty tempting deal....and Jamal would wait one yr for his raise to play for his beloved Cowboys.  

 

[Dr. Octopus]

.I could see a deal for Collins, #17 and a future 2d or 3rd rder....I hate to give up Adams but a starting upgraded RT, with a WR and LT in the 1st rd along with another future pick would be a pretty tempting deal....and Jamal would wait one yr for his raise to play for his beloved Cowboys.  

Now a deal like that I could get behind. If they did that they would have the ability to go OT/WR or WR/OT at 11 and 17. A box safety is easy to replace (obviously not to Adams' level of play) and we instantly upgrade the offense big time. OL depth becomes a strength of the team.

 

[NYRAGE]

It was rumored that JD wanted RT Collins as part of the deal....his salary is about $5M so only need to use $2M on him this year...Dallas has more cap room next year to play with to give him his big contract in 2021.........I could see a deal for Collins, #17 and a future 2d or 3rd rder....I hate to give up Adams but a starting upgraded RT, with a WR and LT in the 1st rd along with another future pick would be a pretty tempting deal....and Jamal would wait one yr for his raise to play for his beloved Cowboys.  

Make it happen.

 

[Kiddnets]

Now a deal like that I could get behind. If they did that they would have the ability to go OT/WR or WR/OT at 11 and 17. A box safety is easy to replace (obviously not to Adams' level of play) and we instantly upgrade the offense big time. OL depth becomes a strength of the team.

Have had way too much time to think about this but its the only way I could envision an Adams trade....cant just deal him for lotto tickets...need at least one solid starter and a 1st rder in the deal....id still want a future 2 or 3 but Im greedy lol.  

Collins and a new LT completely overhauls the OL to a very solid unit - add a top WR with the other pick....and id even get another in the 2d rd....complete makevoer for Sam...then move to defense in the 3rd rd....I trust the DC to figure out life without Jamal...especially with Mosely back and hopefully better Q up front....Maye has potential to be a playmaker as well.....unless they get offered something like this I would stand pat all around.  

 

[NYRAGE]

Have had way too much time to think about this but its the only way I could envision an Adams trade....cant just deal him for lotto tickets...need at least one solid starter and a 1st rder in the deal....id still want a future 2 or 3 but Im greedy lol.  

Collins and a new LT completely overhauls the OL to a very solid unit - add a top WR with the other pick....and id even get another in the 2d rd....complete makevoer for Sam...then move to defense in the 3rd rd....I trust the DC to figure out life without Jamal...especially with Mosely back and hopefully better Q up front....Maye has potential to be a playmaker as well.....unless they get offered something like this I would stand pat all around.  

Over the Cap has a $17m dead cap hit to Collins if moved. If Anyone, it would have to be Smith that they move. I think Dallas said no to that deal last year. It's who JD reportedly asked for.

 

[Kiddnets]

Over the Cap has a $17m dead cap hit to Collins if moved. If Anyone, it would have to be Smith that they move. I think Dallas said no to that deal last year. It's who JD reportedly asked for.

good catch - i probably mixed the 2 up - knew it was an OL....Smith doe make more sense based on numbers....would still work for me with Smith!  

 

[TLEF316]

The only issue with trading for a tackle and then drafting one would be that it would essentially make the Fant signing a total waste.

Smith was like the best tackle in the game a couple of years ago, but he's pushing 30 now (not a HUGE deal for the O-line normally, but still) and he's had some injuries the last couple of years. I know he's still making the pro-bowl annually, but I'd be a TAD worried that its mostly reputation and that the injuries are about to catch up with him.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The only issue with trading for a tackle and then drafting one would be that it would essentially make the Fant signing a total waste.

Smith was like the best tackle in the game a couple of years ago, but he's pushing 30 now (not a HUGE deal for the O-line normally, but still) and he's had some injuries the last couple of years. I know he's still making the pro-bowl annually, but I'd be a TAD worried that its mostly reputation and that the injuries are about to catch up with him.

I believe Fant is signed to a one year $8MM deal. While that's (well) above backup money, it's not horrible for depth and at this point what else can they use their cap space on anyway?

 

[NYRAGE]

I believe Fant is signed to a one year $8MM deal. While that's (well) above backup money, it's not horrible for depth and at this point what else can they use their cap space on anyway?

Essentially a one-year deal.

George Fant signed a three year, $27.3 million contract with the Jets. Fant received $13.3 million in guarantees, $8.85 million of which is fully guaranteed at signing. If Fant is on the roster on the 5th day of the 2021 league year another $4.45 million becomes guaranteed. Fant received a $3 million signing bonus and $1.25 million roster bonus in 2020 as part of his guarantee. Another $3 million in incentives are available. $4.6m base salary this year.

 

[Kiddnets]

The only issue with trading for a tackle and then drafting one would be that it would essentially make the Fant signing a total waste.

Smith was like the best tackle in the game a couple of years ago, but he's pushing 30 now (not a HUGE deal for the O-line normally, but still) and he's had some injuries the last couple of years. I know he's still making the pro-bowl annually, but I'd be a TAD worried that its mostly reputation and that the injuries are about to catch up with him.

Nothing wrong with depth for once lol  - and if Fant is as good as JD thinks he will show it and get a chance....I cant see not making a deal like this due to an unknown like Fant.  I cant imagine JD being satisfied with him as a starting LT....looks more like an upside pick to cover things in case draft/trades dont materialize.  Looking at Smith;s contract he can easily be cut after 2020 season.  Definitely worth the risk IMO - especially with the 17th pick.  

 

[Kiddnets]

Jerry Jones just seemed to quash Jamal rumors - fine by me....shows me JD is playing hardball and rightfully so....days of fleecing the Jets are over....

Speaking Tuesday, Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said it was "highly unlikely" the team would deal the No. 17 overall pick for a veteran player. 

“The idea of trading a very valuable (first-round pick) for an existing player that’s more than likely is going to cost you a lot more is unlikely,” Jones said. “I would say just theoretically it is, but I would say specifically it is highly unlikely that we wouldn’t have the pick there to use for either a top player in the draft or to trade for potential other draft picks where you can equate the value more evenly pick for pick or pick for picks than you are likely to have something happen like that." Jamal Adams-to-Dallas rumors have been flickering again, but Jones can probably be taken at his word that if it happens, it won't be this week. 

RELATED: 

Dallas Cowboys

SOURCE: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com

Apr 21, 2020, 2:52 PM ET

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Yeah I got a little excited about the possibility of getting a solid OLman and a first yesterday - but I honestly don't see it happening. 

I also think people ignore the fact that Jamal has another year and the 5th year option on his contract and the possibility of the franchise tag after that. Douglas has no reason to make any rash decisions just because a player pouts a bit about a contract extension.

 

[Kiddnets]

Yeah I got a little excited about the possibility of getting a solid OLman and a first yesterday - but I honestly don't see it happening. 

I also think people ignore the fact that Jamal has another year and the 5th year option on his contract and the possibility of the franchise tag after that. Douglas has no reason to make any rash decisions just because a player pouts a bit about a contract extension.

Agreed - quite frankly it wouldnt be a good precedent to set giving in so early - from what i understand the new CBA reduces risk of holdouts but ups money for the the 5th yr option if he plays well.....Adams will get his money one way or another next yr...no reason to hurt the cap right this second....

 

[Kiddnets]

happy draft day!!!  

Looking more and more that the big 3 and maybe even 4 OTs will be gone by #11......watched some highlights on Jeudy and Lamb last pm and would love to have either of them...far and away the best young WR upside the Jets would have since Keyshawn....Ruggs reminds me of a Santana Moss but I take the bigger more complete WR every time.....speed isnt everything.  

Interested in the top 10 list of realistic players you fellas would be interested in to get a pulse....my list below - 7-10 only if they trade down a few slots which may happen.....

1.  Wills

2.  Thomas

3.  Wirfs

4.  Jeudy

5.  Lamb

6.  Becton

7.  Ruggs

8.  Austin JAckson

9.  Josh jones

10.  Justin Jefferson

 

[rockaction]

I think you can take Justin Jefferson off of the board at eleven unless there's an absolute run on receivers or things go far awry from mocks. That, of course, is barring a trade down to get Jefferson at a different spot -- WR is quite deep and trading down not a terrible option. Some guys ignored that Jefferson played mainly slot and off of press coverage at LSU and say he's the best value among those WRs in the draft. Just heard a glowing quote about him from someone, and his stock has done nothing but rise since the 4.43 combine forty time and other testing.

But the Jets should have a shot at a top three WR at the worst from everything that I've seen. That's Lamb, Jeudy, or Ruggs III, with most mocking Lamb to the Jets. 

 

[NYRAGE]

I think you can take Justin Jefferson off of the board at eleven unless there's an absolute run on receivers or things go far awry from mocks. That, of course, is barring a trade down to get Jefferson at a different spot -- WR is quite deep and trading down not a terrible option. Some guys ignored that Jefferson played mainly slot and off of press coverage at LSU and say he's the best value among those WRs in the draft. Just heard a glowing quote about him from someone, and his stock has done nothing but rise since the 4.43 combine forty time and other testing.

But the Jets should have a shot at a top three WR at the worst from everything that I've seen. That's Lamb, Jeudy, or Ruggs III, with most mocking Lamb to the Jets. 

Yeah, we're not picking a slot WR.

 

[rockaction]

Yeah, we're not picking a slot WR.

I would highly doubt it. That's, I think, why Lamb is mocked to the Jets over Jeudy. If I was to understand PFF correctly, Lamb lined up outside more than Jeudy. Ruggs III also lined up outside more than Jeudy, who took a lot of snaps from the slot.

 

[NYRAGE]

I would highly doubt it. That's, I think, why Lamb is mocked to the Jets over Jeudy. If I was to understand PFF correctly, Lamb lined up outside more than Jeudy. Ruggs III also lined up outside more than Jeudy, who took a lot of snaps from the slot.

Jeudy had most of his production from the slot, but he can probably play outside if needed.

 

[rockaction]

Jeudy had most of his production from the slot, but he can probably play outside if needed.

That would be an awfully big "hope so," but somebody in the SP -- in one of my many forays into this debate -- had some stat that showed Jeudy was fine against press coverage on the outside. I think Lamb might have been better. Ruggs was the worst in the measure he was using, which was yards per routes run.

 

[NYRAGE]

That would be an awfully big "hope so," but somebody in the SP -- in one of my many forays into this debate -- had some stat that showed Jeudy was fine against press coverage on the outside. I think Lamb might have been better. Ruggs was the worst in the measure he was using, which was yards per routes run.

Tony Pauline says that we love Jeudy and that's the pick if the OT's are gone.  I don't think anyone really knows and I like that.  I would be happy with any of them to be honest.