SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
If White performs in the next 3 games at 80-90% of what he looked like last weekend, I would slow play a trade to get maybe a 3rd or a 4th for Wilson. This is a big IF.
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2023 New York Jets (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
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rockaction
Footballguy
No way on the above comment. They won't trade a number two overall for a third rounder the next year. That's utterly insane.
rockaction
Footballguy
And there's very little chance Mike White keeps this up, frankly.
sheerterror
Footballguy
If Nice Guy Sam yielded us a 2nd, 4th and 6th, Douglas should be able to get 3 1sts for Wilson at this stage of his career. We got the best asset recycler in the game!
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Its a slow day so why not dream.....
IF White goes on a tear and shows hes the future - the only real comparable situation we have seen in recent years is Josh Rosen. He was a later pick than Wilson, played most of the season and looked worse than Wilson....and the Cards were able to get 2d and 5th rounders. Sam is in the ballpark though much later in the contract and they recd a 2d, 4th and 6th....
I personally would keep Zach and White next year even if White runs away with it as insurance....when was the last time the Jets had 2 solid upside QBs.....make White prove without a doubt hes the guy - then deal Wilson either at the deadline or offseason.
Im pretty confident they could receive at least a 1st in this QB hungry league - Pitt, NO, Den, Det, Atlanta, Car, Hou, Wash all will be looking for new/young QBs...JD should be able to get a haul - Wilson has shown enough to get a decent bidding war going.
That being said odds are that White comes back to earth and Wilson starts against Miami. Hopefully the break and competition will have him raise his game.
IF White goes on a tear and shows hes the future - the only real comparable situation we have seen in recent years is Josh Rosen. He was a later pick than Wilson, played most of the season and looked worse than Wilson....and the Cards were able to get 2d and 5th rounders. Sam is in the ballpark though much later in the contract and they recd a 2d, 4th and 6th....
I personally would keep Zach and White next year even if White runs away with it as insurance....when was the last time the Jets had 2 solid upside QBs.....make White prove without a doubt hes the guy - then deal Wilson either at the deadline or offseason.
Im pretty confident they could receive at least a 1st in this QB hungry league - Pitt, NO, Den, Det, Atlanta, Car, Hou, Wash all will be looking for new/young QBs...JD should be able to get a haul - Wilson has shown enough to get a decent bidding war going.
That being said odds are that White comes back to earth and Wilson starts against Miami. Hopefully the break and competition will have him raise his game.
Yenrub
Footballguy
Can he keep it up for one more week vs Indy?
I need a QB to cover Brady’s bye and the pickings are slim (White, Jimmy G and Fields are the best options)
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Darnold's only real stretch of "solid" games came when he returned from injury during his rookie season - so I could see sitting out work in Wilson's favor and yes maybe the "pressure" of seeing what White did does make him focus more.
White is a great story right now - but all he really did was dink and dunk his way down the field - which comparatively was sill excellent to see, but the odds are stacked against his being a franchise level QB. Let's hope we fans finally catch a break though.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
True - and they still got a decent pkg for him....If by some crazy chance they dealt Wilson it would be a haul.
While White did dink and dunk down the field he clearly energized the entire team - I equate it more to Foles short term energy than Warner/Brady long term stardom...but hey at least it makes Thurs pm a lot more interesting. We can only hope it continues and this becomes a more legit conversation!
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Gus Frerotte time.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Oh don’t get me wrong like I said, the play calling didn’t look so bad all of a sudden and that’s because White executed. He looked poised and was accurate. I’ll take that. I really hope he looks good again. After that I’ll live with either decision. There’s many reasons they should go back to Wilson but if White is hot, I’m good with letting it ride.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This team is definitely cursed, right?
Chemical X
Footballguy
nah, you make your own luck. but i have to honestly question how you can miss on every draft pick of every round in every year. even blind squirrels find nuts.
as i watch taylor go 78 yards it honestly looks like this team has quit on saleh.
rockaction
Footballguy
I've seen enough. Guy is a stiff thus far in his career. I was right to hate on him within a few weeks. I can't believe this guy is taking up a spot on my dynasty squad.
I've about seen enough.
rockaction
Footballguy
Tough night. White goes down, Johnson looks good, but tonight was all about getting steamrolled right away by the Colts offense. We made a bunch of guys look like All-Pros tonight, though Jonathan Taylor might just be that. Is there a more complete back in the league?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I was referring to sitting down to watch a young QB that is looking good and then after a TD pass having to sit through a journeyman bum (who actually looked decent but who cares?).
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The bright spot on this is that we can see the offensive play calling and the surrounding weapons (even with their WR1 missing) isn’t a major issue. It’s now on Wilson to come back and start putting things together. If he fails, it’s on him and not because of coaching or playing with subpar talent. He doesn’t get the Sam Darnold benefit of the doubt anymore.
We’re also getting to see that Michael Carter and Elijah Moore are pretty impressive rookies - Wilson better keep it looking that way.
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
Speaking of Sam - I have no joy watching him fail but happy the Jets cut bait when they did and still picked up some quality assets. Carolina in on the hook not only with their 2d and 4th next yr but paying him $18M in 2022 is brutal.
Wilson by no means has looked like a franchise QB yet but at least he has the potential and a rookie contract.
Wilson by no means has looked like a franchise QB yet but at least he has the potential and a rookie contract.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Exactly. In today's NFL...if you dont KNOW you have a guy that can carry an offense after 3 years, its best to reset and try again.
Who is the last NFL QB to be drafted, be bad for 2 years and then eventually become a top half NFL QB with the team that drafted him?
Kiddnets
Footballguy
While 2020 draft looks pretty bad the 2021 is the opposite
1st rd - Wilson - showed enough so far to be hopeful
1st rd 2 - AVT - has been the most solid OL so far.
2d rd - Elijah Moore - looks like the real deal - hopefully makes up for whiffing on Mims
4th M Carter RB - solid playmaker so far - not a stud but definitely can hold the fort as a starter.
5th Sherwood - looked decent until injured
5th - Michael Carter, CB - potential in limited P/T
5th - Pinnock - nothing so far
6th - Hamsah - nothing so far
6th - Echols - has looked decent for a late rd rookie
7th - Marshall - nothing yet
So looking at the above - the 1st 4 picks are starters (assuming Zach doesnt get Wally Pipped) - 5 total starters including Echols with CB Carter getting some run thats 6 draft picks contributing....thats more like it and how you build a team. With 2 1sts, 2 2ds, a 3rd and 2 4ths - JD needs to have similar success to set up the team to finally get out of the basement
1st rd - Wilson - showed enough so far to be hopeful
1st rd 2 - AVT - has been the most solid OL so far.
2d rd - Elijah Moore - looks like the real deal - hopefully makes up for whiffing on Mims
4th M Carter RB - solid playmaker so far - not a stud but definitely can hold the fort as a starter.
5th Sherwood - looked decent until injured
5th - Michael Carter, CB - potential in limited P/T
5th - Pinnock - nothing so far
6th - Hamsah - nothing so far
6th - Echols - has looked decent for a late rd rookie
7th - Marshall - nothing yet
So looking at the above - the 1st 4 picks are starters (assuming Zach doesnt get Wally Pipped) - 5 total starters including Echols with CB Carter getting some run thats 6 draft picks contributing....thats more like it and how you build a team. With 2 1sts, 2 2ds, a 3rd and 2 4ths - JD needs to have similar success to set up the team to finally get out of the basement
LBH
Footballguy
I read the Jets are giving up 472yds and 44 points a game over the last 4 games. That is beyond horrible. Maybe I should be feeling something from that disaster that was the Bills game, but I feel nothing. Hopefully Wilson can show some improvement over the 2nd half of the season.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Missed most of the first half yesterday. Got home, saw Davis fumble that ball, knew the 2nd half wouldn't matter.
Kinda nice to have this sort of Sunday freedom.
At least we can stop the "Maybe Mike White is the guy" nonsense. That was like Linsanity, but based on 1 game against the Bengals.
The Bills are obviously really good (despite the past few weeks) so it certainly wasn't a shock to see how bad the Jets played. Still SO much to fix on this team.
At least Seattle lost again
Kinda nice to have this sort of Sunday freedom.
At least we can stop the "Maybe Mike White is the guy" nonsense. That was like Linsanity, but based on 1 game against the Bengals.
The Bills are obviously really good (despite the past few weeks) so it certainly wasn't a shock to see how bad the Jets played. Still SO much to fix on this team.
At least Seattle lost again
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rockaction
Footballguy
Linsanity! Ah, you New Yorkers. You guys have flash in the pans like nobody else. Kevin Maas.Missed most of the first half yesterday. Got home, saw Davis fumble that ball, knew the 2nd half wouldn't matter.
Kinda nice to have this sort of Sunday freedom.
At least we can stop the "Maybe Mike White is the guy" nonsense. That was like Linsanity, but based on 1 game against the Bengals.
The Bills are obviously really good (despite the past few weeks) so it certainly wasn't a shock to see how bad the Jets played. Still SO much to fix on this team.
At least Seattle lost again
I was so unsold on White that I was unaware out of my own personal bubble that this was a thing. The guy's aDOT was like under five yards (okay, it was 5.something), but he checked down all game against Cincy and they didn't adjust. You knew that would change.
TLEF316
Footballguy
I dont think too many actual fans believed it. But of course the Ciminis of the world needed to write some stupid articles about it for click bait purposes.
I'm not a Knicks fan, but my brother is a HUGE one. I think he knew deep down that Linsanity wouldn't last forever. But it was so much fun for him (in the middle of decades of Knicks ineptitude) that it was hard not to feel happy for him while it was going.
I like to think he'll feel similar happiness for me if the Jets are ever good.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Damn. Rex Ryan pulling absolutely no punches....
Former Jets coach Rex Ryan is not a Robert Saleh fan. On ESPN NY's DiPietro and Rothenberg Show: "This guy is supposed to be a defensive guru. I take it personal on this one. Everything I heard was, this guy is a lot like myself, but without the bad part. Well, some of the bad part you need. This team doesn't play with any damn heart. Don't ever compare compare this guy, this Robert Saleh to me."
Former Jets coach Rex Ryan is not a Robert Saleh fan. On ESPN NY's DiPietro and Rothenberg Show: "This guy is supposed to be a defensive guru. I take it personal on this one. Everything I heard was, this guy is a lot like myself, but without the bad part. Well, some of the bad part you need. This team doesn't play with any damn heart. Don't ever compare compare this guy, this Robert Saleh to me."
rockaction
Footballguy
Rex needed to exercise discretion a long, long time ago, preferably before he became the coach of the Jets. To paraphrase a saying, Look Upward, Angel, it's the front office.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
TLEF316
Footballguy
I mean...I THINK what he's saying is that people were saying that Salah brings Rex level defensive genius (and despite whatever you may think about Rex, he was that) and "guys will run through a wall for him" leadership style........but without the craziness/over the top bravado (whatever you want to call it) that alienated the front office and turned the franchise into a circus in the 18 months before he left.
Basically, everyone was hoping he was SOMEWHERE between Rex's over the top insanity and Bowles' completely unemotional stoicism (but with the defensive acumen that they both have/had)
Rex was a SUPER competitive guy, so I'm sure its just KILLS him that he's just a talking head now and unable to satisfy that competitive fire. Obviously he failed quickly up at Buffalo as well, but I think we'll always wonder if he could have eventually gotten the Jets over the hump (or at least maintained a contending team) if he wasn't' saddled with Sanchez (plus horrible OC's. Schott was the WORST) and a GM that basically sabotaged him.
Plenty of blame to go around at the end of the Rex era (including Rex himself, obviously).
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
"I mean, if you're going to lose this bad you might as well be an ### hole about it!"
rockaction
Footballguy
At least the Falcons are showing us that a full-on rebuild is happening in other places to teams that have just recently been to the ultimate height of the sport. I'm not a big Saleh guy, but he deserves more than just this year unless he's proven to be completely incompetent. We knew there were huge, huge holes on this team.
We have two really nice first-round picks coming this year, plus others in the draft. Stay the course. Thousand points of light. All that GHWB stuff pleading to keep the status quo intact and give these guys a fighting chance. Let's see. If nothing gets done next year, then let let's get to sacking some people.
Regarding the comment and its progenitor, Rex needs to understand what the project is. That way he might understand the temperament required to oversee it, though I doubt Rex would truly ever understand, which might be why he failed in a rebuilding Buffalo setting. Saleh might just be exercising needed patience.
We have two really nice first-round picks coming this year, plus others in the draft. Stay the course. Thousand points of light. All that GHWB stuff pleading to keep the status quo intact and give these guys a fighting chance. Let's see. If nothing gets done next year, then let let's get to sacking some people.
Regarding the comment and its progenitor, Rex needs to understand what the project is. That way he might understand the temperament required to oversee it, though I doubt Rex would truly ever understand, which might be why he failed in a rebuilding Buffalo setting. Saleh might just be exercising needed patience.
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
Oh boy that was ugly - few thoughts
Mike White - IKurt Warner you are not - back to the scrap heap...that one game will probably buy him a backup gig for a decade so good for him - time to bring back Zach who has a very low bar to clear after that game....
Z Wilson - anxious to see if the few weeks off gives him a bump like it did Darnold's rookie year...he had a chance to breathe, heal and watch - thats usually not a bad thing...
OL - didnt play great but not a disaster either - when the heck is Becton coming back? AVT looks like a staple...
RBs - more I watch Carter the more I like him - def upside
WRs - invisible until garbage time - Davis is simply an overpaid #2 at best. Elijah could be a very nice slot/#2 WR - need that stud playmaker ala Lamb or Jefferson still
TE - Ghost town
Defense - Awful as a whole - like epic bad...JFM gets paid and immediately goes invisible since...not a good sign....Q shows flashes but not consistent...nervous to give hi the big $ as well. LBs constantly getting beat. DVs putrid...no safeties...JD has to take a hit here for the lack of talent
Coaching - Saleh is officially on notice....not that he'll be fired this year but the honeymoon is not only over but im looking really hard at this decision. He has shown nothing....no fire...no schemes, adjustments or smarts...none of what I thought the Jets were getting by hiring this guy. Leaving Diggs to run wild without adjusting was absurd...he has that befuddled Kotite, Bowles, Gase look on his face...he has completely been as bad if not worse than Gase and that is saying something. I went into this year worried about the O and now the D is just as bad and thats his strength.....just awful. Im very concerned.
Mike White - IKurt Warner you are not - back to the scrap heap...that one game will probably buy him a backup gig for a decade so good for him - time to bring back Zach who has a very low bar to clear after that game....
Z Wilson - anxious to see if the few weeks off gives him a bump like it did Darnold's rookie year...he had a chance to breathe, heal and watch - thats usually not a bad thing...
OL - didnt play great but not a disaster either - when the heck is Becton coming back? AVT looks like a staple...
RBs - more I watch Carter the more I like him - def upside
WRs - invisible until garbage time - Davis is simply an overpaid #2 at best. Elijah could be a very nice slot/#2 WR - need that stud playmaker ala Lamb or Jefferson still
TE - Ghost town
Defense - Awful as a whole - like epic bad...JFM gets paid and immediately goes invisible since...not a good sign....Q shows flashes but not consistent...nervous to give hi the big $ as well. LBs constantly getting beat. DVs putrid...no safeties...JD has to take a hit here for the lack of talent
Coaching - Saleh is officially on notice....not that he'll be fired this year but the honeymoon is not only over but im looking really hard at this decision. He has shown nothing....no fire...no schemes, adjustments or smarts...none of what I thought the Jets were getting by hiring this guy. Leaving Diggs to run wild without adjusting was absurd...he has that befuddled Kotite, Bowles, Gase look on his face...he has completely been as bad if not worse than Gase and that is saying something. I went into this year worried about the O and now the D is just as bad and thats his strength.....just awful. Im very concerned.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I really like Rex - he was the best JEts HC since Parcells and he won...until he didnt.
He brought the fire...and very good defensive schemes....but he inherited a much better team than Saleh. That Def and Ol was ready made for a playoff run....if only he had a better QB and OC Rex could have easily gotten them over the hump. In hindsight they really should have kept Tanny and rex and gave them one more shot at fixing the O with a new QB. Maybe Im nostalgic but I think Rex would do a better job than Saleh...or at least go down swinging a lot more....I cant recall any Jets team being this noncompetitive and this includes Kotite which lost a bunch of games by a TD or less....this is as bad of coaching as I remember and thats saying something. Saleh has to do something....
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yeah, I suppose you guys got to enjoy some success during your Rex Ryan Experience. Ours was one fun game (hammering the Colts in Ryan's first game as HC) followed by a 31 games of mediocrity.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Joe Flacco starts Sunday. Shoot me.
Chaka
Footballguy
These are decisions that bad teams make.
What's the point?
Are they worried about permanently scarring the four year veteran, fifth round draft pick for life?
Are they trying to stay alive in the playoff hunt?
Where is there possibly any value in rolling Flaccid out there?
ETA: not gonna fix that auto-correct.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I get to see it live!! - going back to MetLife for the first time since it’s inaugural season (after which we gave up our season tickets). My new girl’s company has a box so at least it’s free food and beer and don’t need to sit out in the cold.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
It reeks from top to bottom....JD trying to justify Flacco trade....not deal with White situation if he has a good game...not throw Zach to the home crowd against a decent defense....it just reeks ....Im as big a Jets fan as they get and I wont be going Sunday let alone watching. They are losing hard core fans.....
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
jwb
Footballguy
I don't have a problem with Flacco starting. In fact, I think it's smart.
Here's what they don't want: Mike White to have a good enough game to make for a huge back page qb controversy. No matter what Flacco does, there's no controversy when Wilson is ready. Flacco to the bench.
They know about Mike White. He's been cut a few times, and yes, he had one nice game and a quarter. But he was brutally bad once a team took away the short stuff. I'm going to trust they know whether they have something special there (and they clearly feel they don't, so why further hinder Zach's development if White plays "ok" while leading them to an unexpected 23-20 victory?)
Zach needs a true chance to develop, and he cannot do that if there are "Mike White" questions.
Here's what they don't want: Mike White to have a good enough game to make for a huge back page qb controversy. No matter what Flacco does, there's no controversy when Wilson is ready. Flacco to the bench.
They know about Mike White. He's been cut a few times, and yes, he had one nice game and a quarter. But he was brutally bad once a team took away the short stuff. I'm going to trust they know whether they have something special there (and they clearly feel they don't, so why further hinder Zach's development if White plays "ok" while leading them to an unexpected 23-20 victory?)
Zach needs a true chance to develop, and he cannot do that if there are "Mike White" questions.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I respectfully but completely disagree - what is the point of playing an almost 40 yr old with no future in the league? White is young and a potential asset....you dont coach and play scared that a player will succeed . If he lights it up again thats great...the asset has increased in value. Maybe they get some trade offers from desperate teams....if he stinks he stinks....there is zero point or incentive in my eyes to having Flacco play.
jwb
Footballguy
I get it, and I do understand your side. But after last week, I'm not convinced at all that we have a better chance to win with White as we do Flacco. They probably *are* playing to win here, even though they are both pretty bad choices. But avoiding any type of qb controversy is a bonus (I'm certainly wrong with saying they don't want to see White succeed - that is pretty silly.)
As a fan, I'm more interested in developing Zach than I am Mike White anything.
RC94
Footballguy
Playing to win instead of developing players is what bad franchises do. Getting useless wins to finish the season with a better record is stupid (I am a Bears fan so I know this well). Good teams don't worry about hurting feelings. If Wilson can't beat out White than he has no business being in the NFL. The players will respect him more for earning the job than having it handed to him. They also keep giving routes to veteran WRs who will not be with the team when they are good. Elijah Moore should be out there on pretty much every down and not taken out for the other buffoons other than maybe Davis because they paid him a lot of money and he is still relatively young. Crowder, Cole, etc. are not the future of this team.
Hopefully the team will continue to suck this year and you will do something with your draft choices next year.
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