What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

2023 New York Jets (8 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
I get it, and I do understand your side. But after last week, I'm not convinced at all that we have a better chance to win with White as we do Flacco. They probably *are* playing to win here, even though they are both pretty bad choices. But avoiding any type of qb controversy is a bonus (I'm certainly wrong with saying they don't want to see White succeed - that is pretty silly.) 

As a fan, I'm more interested in developing Zach than I am Mike White anything. 
From the standpoint of building a winning culture (not winning a game), I think they should be going with White until Wilson is ready to play. From there, Wilson needs to be better than White to keep the job (and that shouldn't be a problem). I'm not saying White is the next Kirk Cousins or anything but without some semblance of a meritocracy at the QB position, there would never be a Kirk Cousins.

 
What did Saleh say about benching White. Feel bad for Jets fans, I honestly thought Saleh was going to turn it around but doesn’t seem like he has a clue.

There is no valid reason to start Flacco over White. None. 

 
I don't see this as being that bad a move. If Wilson isn't quite ready, he watches. No need to risk any sort of injury. Evaluating Mike White probably has run its course after Buffalo did what it did. Should they evaluate White more? Possibly, I guess. 

I don't see this as the disaster that others do, am I'm no homer with blinders on. Wilson has looked completely overmatched. If he's not ready or if he's just close to ready, no need to throw him back out there. Let him sit and watch a former professional starter do his thing. 

 
Actually, yoman's comment makes sense, but let me provide a caveat to it. There is no reason that Keelan Cole and Crowder have been running instead of Elijah Moore and Denzel Mims other than helping develop Wilson. If Wilson is in there, then I can see sticking with veteran wide receivers. If Flacco or White is, though, then it's hard to justify it. And I actually think Moore has seen the field a lot with White in there. So I'm not sure it's as cut-and-dried as Cole and Crowder seeing the field over Moore. I've watched the games, and it seems more complicated and contingent upon health than just Cole and Crowder having the job over Elijah. Maybe I'm mistaken. 

 
I don't see this as being that bad a move. If Wilson isn't quite ready, he watches. No need to risk any sort of injury. Evaluating Mike White probably has run its course after Buffalo did what it did. Should they evaluate White more? Possibly, I guess. 

I don't see this as the disaster that others do, am I'm no homer with blinders on. Wilson has looked completely overmatched. If he's not ready or if he's just close to ready, no need to throw him back out there. Let him sit and watch a former professional starter do his thing. 
Obviously I'm being more than a little facetious here but it's at least worth reflecting on when we're done evaluating White based on what an elite DEF did to him versus what defences have been doing to T. Lawrence (for instance). Apples and oranges, sure but here we have Wilson, White and Flacco and it's interesting the QB controversy you can create while attempting to avoid a QB controversy. I'm not sure what QB nutrients Wilson absorbs through osmosis by watching end game Flacco "do his thing", is all.

 
I'm not sure what QB nutrients Wilson absorbs through osmosis by watching end game Flacco "do his thing", is all.
I've never understood that either, but perhaps it's really a way of keeping him from being utterly shell-shocked again. I don't know. I do know that of the things the Jets have done wrong, this is about number 436 on a 1000 bullet-point list. 

Obviously I'm being more than a little facetious here but it's at least worth reflecting on when we're done evaluating White based on what an elite DEF did to him versus what defences have been doing to T. Lawrence (for instance). Apples and oranges, sure
As to this point, Lawrence also indeed got schooled by the extremely tough defense that Buffalo has. I think the game was 9-6 in favor of the Jags? They hardly beat the world on offense. He only threw for 118 yards, but he didn't throw four picks. White looked hopeless and they got creamed. Just lit up. I'm not sure that more Mike White eval is the answer for the Jets. I think they know what they have. 

 
I'm not sure that more Mike White eval is the answer for the Jets. I think they know what they have. 


Yup. We're discussing "evaluating" the backup quarterback.

One game doesn't say much either way. Except if maybe you have a history of being not-so-good (like being cut multiple times). White came in and played great against CIN throwing the short / intermediate stuff that caught them off guard. Had one nice drive the following week, then got hurt. Then he completely melted down - that was beyond brutal. Based on his history, I'm not sure there's really anything to evaluate there. He's not a rookie. 

I'm 100% on board that Moore should be in there over Cole and Crowder.  But Flacco over White is not something I'll criticize. 

 
What did Saleh say about benching White. Feel bad for Jets fans, I honestly thought Saleh was going to turn it around but doesn’t seem like he has a clue.

There is no valid reason to start Flacco over White. None. 
While I don't agree with the decision to start Flacco, the bolded is not true. Part of establishing a winning culture is to actually win games and the staff may feel Flacco gives them the best chance. I know as fans we start thinking at some point "what's the point of making our draft pick worse" but NFL HCs can't think that way. They want to win each and every week.

Mike White had one good game in a four year career and that was by dinking and dunking down the field in comeback mode. Maybe the coaching staff also feels like it has to develop other young guys like Elijah Moore, Michael Carter and (hopefully at some point  Mims) and Flacco being in more control of the offense helps accomplish that better than Mike White dump offs would. Zach Wilson will be starting when healthy either way so as much as I don't need to see Joe Flacco out there, it's kind of being made into a bigger deal than it probably deserves.

 
And really, nobody is entirely sure because the Jets have been a horror show for so long that it beggars belief. So it's easy to put dirt on the graves of Saleh and company, but one doesn't know for sure the internal decision-making that is going on here. It will indeed invite questions because it's the Jets, but I can imagine a fully plausible scenario to start Flacco and have it not be deleterious to the organization. 

This isn't DEFCON 5 or anything. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah, it's really just the meme factor because it's the Jets. LOL the Jets traded for and are starting joe Flacco. Its low hanging fruit.

I'm sure Wilson will play next week if he's healthy.  Hopefully he can get things going against the Texans 

 
I understand wanting to stop the bleeding and try to keep the game closer with Flacco...but this season is shot...whether they lose this game by 1 point or 40 pts or even win....they should absolutely be in the mode of winning games...while developing and evaluating young talent that could have a future with the team.  Flacco does not fit that mold and White does....Jets have been without a legit backup for yrs...they just threw away a draft pick to get one.  White should be played to further evaluate if he can be the backup or at least get some trade value....some QBs turned 1 great game into a starting gig...maybe a desperate team flips a mid round pick for him to compete.  Long shot but better than no shot watching a washed up Flacco.  

 
Mike White had one good game in a four year career and that was by dinking and dunking down the field in comeback mode. Maybe the coaching staff also feels like it has to develop other young guys like Elijah Moore, Michael Carter and (hopefully at some point  Mims) and Flacco being in more control of the offense helps accomplish that better than Mike White dump offs would. 
I can get on board with this line of thought.  It is entirely possible that with what they've seen over his 4 years in the NFL and particularly his time at the helm for them this year that they have decided that White is nothing more than a backup and so there is no longer any benefit to the rest of the team to trot him out there any more.

 
At least Moore looks like a keeper. Obviously we've seen flashes in the pan before, but he's starting to show exactly what everyone was talking about all summer. 

 
jets have some must lose games coming up against the texans and jags.  would like to see them get and then waste a pair of top 5 picks.

i still have no idea why this team traded for flacco.  his attitude seems piss poor.  i mean, they could have spent a couple of extra bucks to sign him back last year.  but, they would’ve wasted that pick anyway i figure.  it would be nice if one season wasn’t over by october.  

 
Luckily I missed this terrible game - 

Offense - Carter and Moore look legit which is a huge upgrade....Davis is faltering and will likely settle into the option B to Elijah.  If they can draft/sign one more stud OL and a legit TE this offense could be very solid.  

The D is still brutal - may need a complete overhaul ala the O last draft.  I thought Saleh could scheme his way to at least a respectable defense - I was wrong - he needs some more horses.  

I know they are probably happy with Flacco and keeping the game close - but they can not allow Zach to sit anymore if hes healthy - the kid has had 3 full games to watch and learn..need to give him the last 7 games to develop and grade.  

Texans/Jags are the only 2 winnable games I see on the schedule - they will probably lose one of those then win another meaningless one down the stretch - but if its with Wilson developing Im fine with it...not with Flacco winning.  

 
Currently as we sit - Jets have the #2 and #5 picks in the 1st round in 2022.  Also have the 2d and 12th picks in the second rd.....dont expect it to stay that way but that would be some impressive draft ammo!  

 
jets have some must lose games coming up against the texans and jags.  would like to see them get and then waste a pair of top 5 picks.

i still have no idea why this team traded for flacco.  his attitude seems piss poor.  i mean, they could have spent a couple of extra bucks to sign him back last year.  but, they would’ve wasted that pick anyway i figure.  it would be nice if one season wasn’t over by october.  
Actually Joe D’s track record in the draft is starting to look pretty good - especially this most recent draft class. Of course the Wilson pick is going to be the one that really matters and that’s still up in the air right now.

 
I still don’t get the Flacco choice.  The other two backups looked pretty effective.  
Flacco brought Elijah Moore to a higher level versus a blitzing Miami defense. He moved the team into scoring positions 3 times that didn't pan out: 2 missed FGs and the fumble on a blindsided CB blitz. Let Wilson sit and learn for a few games, while Moore develops. I guess that's the plan. Unexpectedly, Flacco looked good. It could be the coaches wanting to prove that their system is working. 

 
Flacco brought Elijah Moore to a higher level versus a blitzing Miami defense. He moved the team into scoring positions 3 times that didn't pan out: 2 missed FGs and the fumble on a blindsided CB blitz. Let Wilson sit and learn for a few games, while Moore develops. I guess that's the plan. Unexpectedly, Flacco looked good. It could be the coaches wanting to prove that their system is working. 
I thought Flacco looked terrible. He missed so many easy passes and can't move at all.

 
I still don’t get the Flacco choice.  The other two backups looked pretty effective.  
White had one good game and one horrific game.

Josh Johnson is even a bigger waste of time than Flacco (guy has started 8 games in 13 years) - although he did look good against Indy in catch up mode.

 
JD spent a pick on Flacco and wants to not look so bad - still not a fan of the decision.  I also believe the 6th rder jumps up to a 5th if Flacco meets playing time criteria - not sure what it is but why the heck risk that???

 
Actually Joe D’s track record in the draft is starting to look pretty good - especially this most recent draft class. Of course the Wilson pick is going to be the one that really matters and that’s still up in the air right now.
1st draft still looking shaky but it was for a different coaching regime/system - still bad though.....if Becton and Hall can be starters then its not that bad.  

This draft looks really good - if Wilson hits Id say perhaps best Jets draft since the 4 1st rders.  3 sure fire starters in AVT, E Moore and Carter - with upside potential.   Very good draft class so far

 
TLEF316 said:
Another 8 yard throw misfired at 100mph to complete a 3 and out.  
He looked a little better in the second half but overall a very disappointing game after seeing what this offense could look like with three scrub QBs under center.

 
He looked a little better in the second half but overall a very disappointing game after seeing what this offense could look like with three scrub QBs under center.


Did he "look better"? I guess. But man that's a low bar.

His 2nd half stats....(as far as I can tell. Just went through the drives real quick)

8/12 for 101 yards and no passing TD's, About half of that was the Berrios 46 yarder where Houston had a guy fall down and missed 2 tackles. It should have been about an 8 yard pickup.  Their only score only happened because Houston took a stupid leverage penalty on the FG.

And this is against the 2nd worst team in the league.

I get it...No Davis....No Carter....No Becton. Yadda yadda yadda.  Just tired of the excuses.  Mike freaking White threw for 400 yards with this offense against a playoff team.  This kid just reeks of bust to me.   Now we have to listen to the broadcast team talk about how his personal QB coach/babysitter has to calm him down in between series because he gets too emotional/in his own head?  I mean...come on.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Did he "look better"? I guess. But man that's a low bar.

His 2nd half stats....(as far as I can tell. Just went through the drives real quick)

8/12 for 101 yards and no passing TD's, About half of that was the Berrios 46 yarder where Houston had a guy fall down and missed 2 tackles. It should have been about an 8 yard pickup.  Their only score only happened because Houston took a stupid leverage penalty on the FG.

And this is against the 2nd worst team in the league.

I get it...No Davis....No Carter....No Becton. Yadda yadda yadda.  Just tired of the excuses.  Mike freaking White threw for 400 yards with this offense against a playoff team.  This kid just reeks of bust to me.   Now we have to listen to the broadcast team talk about how his personal QB coach/babysitter has to calm him down in between series because he gets too emotional/in his own head?  I mean...come on.
Actually I used the phrase "a little better" and didn't make any excuses - you did leave off his rushing TD though. I also clearly pointed out how 3 scrub QBs have moved the offense better.

However I'm not ready to call him a bust yet - but obviously his performance has been tremendously disappointing and time is running out. I wouldn't be against letting Mike White finish out the season and starting over with Wilson next season.

 
Actually I used the phrase "a little better" and didn't make any excuses - you did leave off his rushing TD though. I also clearly pointed out how 3 scrub QBs have moved the offense better.

However I'm not ready to call him a bust yet - but obviously his performance has been tremendously disappointing and time is running out. I wouldn't be against letting Mike White finish out the season and starting over with Wilson next season.


Yeah....little better is probably accurate. Again....couldn't have looked much worse. Kid constantly misses high school level throws.

The rushing TD happened. So yeah....it counts. He showed some speed and toughness there. But it only happened because that idiot on Houston decided to take a leverage penalty on the FG (after the drive stalled in the red zone). Then he took an offsides penalty on the next play to get the Jets even closer.

Certainly not saying YOU'RE making excuses. But I'm sure that will be the corporate line from the Jets (and the wilson backers) re: wilson.

Chris Simms has been awfully quiet lately.....

 
Kid constantly misses high school level throws.
This is the most disappointing aspect - he's missing simple short throws that guys like White and Flacco used to move the offense.

The toss to the back of the RB (when he could have just run for at least five yards) was one of the dumbest things I've seen a QB do - and as a Jets' fan that's saying something.

 
This is the most disappointing aspect - he's missing simple short throws that guys like White and Flacco used to move the offense.

The toss to the back of the RB (when he could have just run for at least five yards) was one of the dumbest things I've seen a QB do - and as a Jets' fan that's saying something.


Yeah, this play is REALLY scary. Its a potential canary in the coal mine.

not quite on this level, but it sort of reminded me of when Geno Smith did this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eno0i_xKa_w

Someone with the mental capacity to be a good NFL QB wouldn't do that. That was pretty much the day I decided Geno wasn't the guy. Zach's ill advised flip isn't that, but its really bad.

On the short throws....it just so odd. Literally all we heard all during the pre-draft process was how Wilson was automatic on the short/medium range stuff...and that's why he was such a better fit for the scheme than all the other QB's.  But for whatever reason...he just panics and rifles those throws way too hard like 75% of the time.

 
And yes, the only thing that's saving the Jets front office from being absolutely obliterated Re: Wilson is that Lawrence has mostly stunk (although his stinking SEEMS like rookie stuff + a bad coach....not inherent lack of ability) Fields has mostly stunk and Lance has been injured.

Nobody reasonable is gonna criticize them for not taking Jones at 2. That was obviously never on the table. He's not that level of talent. He just has a very smart coaching staff that is putting him in position to not fail and he's bright and talented enough to take advantage.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think you have to play Wilson the rest of the year to see what you have. While we hope he lives up to our expectations, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to give some thought on moving on if he doesn’t seem to get it (or continues to look lost). 

Arizona did it with Rosen (granted a 10 vs a 2) and it worked out for them. 

Having 2 picks in the top 5 gives us options though (still lots of football left and until the draft). 

 
Jeez that was the toughest win to watch in a long time.  I am not interested in tanking with Wilson so happy for the win in that maybe it gives him some confidence.  If they would have lost that game he would have been crushed in the media all week.  

All the posts here are fair so far - the offense moved very well and looked better with a 2d yr QB with zero experience and 2 washed up journeyman.  No one is looking for Zach to light it up but watching him I cant help but compare him to...gulp....Browning Nagle.  For those of you not as old and weather as me - Browning had a rocket arm but couldnt  figure out how to harness it.  Zero touch and made bad decisions all the time.  Looks eerily familiar

OL was shakier than in the past few weeks but the Running game was very good - no one is looking for Zach to play flawless but he is consistently launching balls to high or too low..making poor decisions and just looking completely overmatched.  Not so different than all the other rookie QB except Mac but we all agree thats more the system.  

Im willing to give the kid a mulligan for the last game as it was his 1st back -  he had the yips and is still obviously concerned about his knee.  I really hope he stays healthy because he needs to be evaluated and show some improvement.  If he keeps looking like this then it does open the door to other options - but I think its a longshot.  This is JD's biggest pick and I dont see a QB like Kyler out there to even tempt JD to dump Wilson over.  I think we have to just hope he shows any improvement game by game and gets confidence - but I think its fair to say that everyone should be concerned at this point.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
We won? 

We won.

We won! 

I can't bear to watch the kid. He's pretty much dead last in all those advanced graphs I see, even among historical rookies. Down and to the left on the graph, that's where you find Wilson (success is up and to the right). We're likely going to have two top fifteen picks. They'll never do it, but you'd think they need help at QB. Just sayin'...I wanted to pick Kyler Murray when we had Darnold, but he didn't even last past the Cardinals at one. There is no QB as good as Murray in this year's draft by all accounts, so that muddies the waters. I'm just saying if there was one, I'd feel comfortable pulling the trigger on that selection. But it's moot. 

So here we sit with a rattled kid on our hands. 

 
We won? 

We won.

We won! 

I can't bear to watch the kid. He's pretty much dead last in all those advanced graphs I see, even among historical rookies. Down and to the left on the graph, that's where you find Wilson (success is up and to the right). We're likely going to have two top fifteen picks. They'll never do it, but you'd think they need help at QB. Just sayin'...I wanted to pick Kyler Murray when we had Darnold, but he didn't even last past the Cardinals at one. There is no QB as good as Murray in this year's draft by all accounts, so that muddies the waters. I'm just saying if there was one, I'd feel comfortable pulling the trigger on that selection. But it's moot. 

So here we sit with a rattled kid on our hands. 
Consider the positives: He's shown some ability. He has a good arm. One thing that hurt Wilson a LOT was losing his QB coach to a tragic accident - I'm certain that hindered his development. (I should have know the R word would be masked, despite using it correctly) 

If the Jets have 2x top 15 picks, that will only help the Jets. Another offseason of work will only help Wilson develop. 

I am not ready to bury the kid yet. He's very young and I've seen enough of his college play to believe he's a talent.  Someone offered me 2x 2nds (2022 & 2023) in a superflex for him yesterday & I rejected it. I'd rather hold and see what he becomes. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You ####ed up. 

How did I #### up? 

You listened to us! 
Nah - this was before the draft. I was betting on Saleh, and I liked the weapons they had, and they always seem to have a pretty good defense + a defensive-minded coach could be an upgrade there as well.

I figured they'd draft a RB & everyone pretty well knew they'd take Wilson by that point. I thought with the extra game, they had that much better shot at 6 wins.  

These are the thoughts of 5 gin & tonics and a couple of hits off a vape. ;)  

 
On a positive note, both Seattle and Carolina lost again.  Douglas will have plenty of high picks to build around his "franchise QB".

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top