Kiddnets
Footballguy
Agreed - I hate to use another premium pick for a WR but the Mims flop and C Davis being just so so necessitates it. Would also love to get a solid TE - would really help Wilson.
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2023 New York Jets (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
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TLEF316
Footballguy
I like Berrios for what he is, but I sure as hell hope they dont pay him anywhere close to 8-10 Million dollars.
The guy has 38 catches and 1 TD...and that's with Davis and Moore (plus Crowder) all missing extensive time. I get that he'd likely produce more if the offense was better, but the dude is a bit player. Not saying he's untalanted, but he's easily replaceable IMO.
A 9 Million dollar deal would put among the top 30 paid WR's in football. I understand that average/yr salary isn't a GREAT metric (since so many guys are still on rookie deals and making less than $5M....Jefferson, Lamb, Mike Williams, Samuel, Metcalf, AJ Brown) but still.
IMO, he's a really nice 4th WR...and that's how he should paid. You want to tell me he's worth like 4 for $16-20M (with a slight bump for his return ability and continuity with Zach)? I'll buy that. But if someone wants to pay him 7-8M a year to be a top slot guy...let them have him and take a shot at a similar talent in the middle rounds.
The guy has 38 catches and 1 TD...and that's with Davis and Moore (plus Crowder) all missing extensive time. I get that he'd likely produce more if the offense was better, but the dude is a bit player. Not saying he's untalanted, but he's easily replaceable IMO.
A 9 Million dollar deal would put among the top 30 paid WR's in football. I understand that average/yr salary isn't a GREAT metric (since so many guys are still on rookie deals and making less than $5M....Jefferson, Lamb, Mike Williams, Samuel, Metcalf, AJ Brown) but still.
IMO, he's a really nice 4th WR...and that's how he should paid. You want to tell me he's worth like 4 for $16-20M (with a slight bump for his return ability and continuity with Zach)? I'll buy that. But if someone wants to pay him 7-8M a year to be a top slot guy...let them have him and take a shot at a similar talent in the middle rounds.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yeah, I was trying to say that’s the ceiling of his market. If they sign him earlier it should be cheaper. But, sure, even that may be overstating the market, but he’s also a valuable special teamer. I hope they keep him but let’s see what happens.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Some really nice throws today, especially given the opponent and the lack of weapons.
Gotta be fair, he has shown a little improvement the last couple of games. Shame (for Zach, it obviously helps the draft position) that Lafleur blew the 4th down call. QB sneak? Give me a break
Gotta be fair, he has shown a little improvement the last couple of games. Shame (for Zach, it obviously helps the draft position) that Lafleur blew the 4th down call. QB sneak? Give me a break
Crash Davis
Footballguy
Zach made some really nice throws today, lasers on target. That's what we've been waiting for all year long. If he can play nearly as well next week against the Bills i'll feel a whole lot better about him than I did a few weeks ago. Almost as encouraging for me is that the run game is taking off. The SF offenses run the ball really well which makes things a lot easier on the QBs. That's starting to translate with MLF. Keep improving the OL in the draft and FA and you can see how this can be a solid offense next year.
The defense needs an infusion of talent, but there are some bright spots too. I really hope Lawson comes back close to what he was before and they can add an top edge rusher in the draft , that can really change the dynamic of that defense.
The defense needs an infusion of talent, but there are some bright spots too. I really hope Lawson comes back close to what he was before and they can add an top edge rusher in the draft , that can really change the dynamic of that defense.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
At the game and got sucked into a same old jets blowing one to Brady narrative in the moment - but stepping back it was anything but -
this was a legit super bowl contending team and the JEts should have beat them - playing with 3rd and 4th stringers all over the place. Wilson was poised and showed some huge growth against a very good defense. Loved the poise and elusiveness in the pocket. This was without a doubt his signature high potential game. I hope he repeats it in Buffalo but even if he doesnt this was a hang your hat on optimism moment.
Coaches blew this one but I do think it was a learning moment as well - trying to keep in mind they are rookies as well and being in a close game like this was a great learning experience.
2021 draft keeps looking better - If Wilson is a legit franchise QB it is awesome as it is....but AVT, E Moore, Carter, Carter II and Ecols not only contributed but look to be legit starters and building blocks - thats an insane 6 players from one draft. It makes up for the horrific 2020 draft. IF Becton comes back next year and Hall keeps developing then 8 legit contributors in 2 yrs is a great job by JD.
Tough ask going into Buffalo with them needing the win for the division - if they can be competitive it would really end the season on a high note - for a 4 win team that would be something.
this was a legit super bowl contending team and the JEts should have beat them - playing with 3rd and 4th stringers all over the place. Wilson was poised and showed some huge growth against a very good defense. Loved the poise and elusiveness in the pocket. This was without a doubt his signature high potential game. I hope he repeats it in Buffalo but even if he doesnt this was a hang your hat on optimism moment.
Coaches blew this one but I do think it was a learning moment as well - trying to keep in mind they are rookies as well and being in a close game like this was a great learning experience.
2021 draft keeps looking better - If Wilson is a legit franchise QB it is awesome as it is....but AVT, E Moore, Carter, Carter II and Ecols not only contributed but look to be legit starters and building blocks - thats an insane 6 players from one draft. It makes up for the horrific 2020 draft. IF Becton comes back next year and Hall keeps developing then 8 legit contributors in 2 yrs is a great job by JD.
Tough ask going into Buffalo with them needing the win for the division - if they can be competitive it would really end the season on a high note - for a 4 win team that would be something.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Honestly the season really couldn’t have ended better. I’m not 100% sold on Wilson but he’s improved enough since coming back from injury and has now showed us some great arm ability and athleticism carrying the ball. We’ve probably said this before but this is a huge offseason for the Jets.
The game next week was moved to 4:25 so I hope they at least make a nice showing for a National audience.
The game next week was moved to 4:25 so I hope they at least make a nice showing for a National audience.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
Bills need to keep the division away from the Pats. Jets need a good draft pick.
Let’s get this done
Let’s get this done
TLEF316
Footballguy
So....that's that.
Tried to watch the game today but it just wasn't watchable. Hard to blame anyone considering what they had to work with. Their top 4 Wr's were out once Crowder went down and they were obviously missing linemen as well. Going up against the #1 Defense in the league (I believe) playing for a division title...I'm shocked they were competitive.
Other than the TD pass (which was a laser. Great throw) and a few other throws...not much out of Wilson tonight. 7/20 is ROUGH. But again....NOBODY to throw to. A couple of brain farts (taking that 10 yard sack before the FG was bad) but no turnovers. Oh well.
Overall, another really tough year. They were totally non competitive on several occasions and the coaching staff had some serious growing pains. A defense that ranked dead last. That's tough to take.
Picking 4th and 10th(would have been nice if Seattle had laid down today) and then 35th and 38th (thanks Carolina) Really need to hit on all 4. Hopefully a QB or 2 will rise up the boards and we can snag an impact defender at 4. I'm not really a college football guy (so I can't comment on individual prospects)
Supposedly this Linderbaum kid is the best center prospect in a LONG time. But as far as I can tell (I looked going back to like 1990) a center has never gone in the top 15. In an absolute ideal world, maybe they drop back and get a bigger package than what they gave up to get AVT.
Assuming no tradebacks, and not knowing how the pre-draft process is gonna shake out, I'd hope they spend those first 4 picks on a pass rusher, a WR, and O-lineman and a DB.
Tried to watch the game today but it just wasn't watchable. Hard to blame anyone considering what they had to work with. Their top 4 Wr's were out once Crowder went down and they were obviously missing linemen as well. Going up against the #1 Defense in the league (I believe) playing for a division title...I'm shocked they were competitive.
Other than the TD pass (which was a laser. Great throw) and a few other throws...not much out of Wilson tonight. 7/20 is ROUGH. But again....NOBODY to throw to. A couple of brain farts (taking that 10 yard sack before the FG was bad) but no turnovers. Oh well.
Overall, another really tough year. They were totally non competitive on several occasions and the coaching staff had some serious growing pains. A defense that ranked dead last. That's tough to take.
Picking 4th and 10th(would have been nice if Seattle had laid down today) and then 35th and 38th (thanks Carolina) Really need to hit on all 4. Hopefully a QB or 2 will rise up the boards and we can snag an impact defender at 4. I'm not really a college football guy (so I can't comment on individual prospects)
Supposedly this Linderbaum kid is the best center prospect in a LONG time. But as far as I can tell (I looked going back to like 1990) a center has never gone in the top 15. In an absolute ideal world, maybe they drop back and get a bigger package than what they gave up to get AVT.
Assuming no tradebacks, and not knowing how the pre-draft process is gonna shake out, I'd hope they spend those first 4 picks on a pass rusher, a WR, and O-lineman and a DB.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
We've said this before but this is one of the most important offseason's for the franchise - the picks, cap space and young corp players have put this team in good position going forward but Wilson will need to take a big step forward if the team wants to be serious contenders. The second half of the season for Wilson was encouraging but we're still going to go into Year 2 with some apprehension. They need to add at lease one quality WR (preferably through the draft and I would like for them to re-sign Berrios to the extent the contract is reasonable (Crowder coming off the books helps with that).
I've read a lot about Linderbaum, and it does seem he's a "can't miss" prospect but of course it's hard to take a Center at pick 4. I will say the team's only periods of recent success came with Mawae and Mangold manning the center position. It's a bit early though at this point to say what their draft will look like. It would be nice if a QB or 2 gain some steam which drops a prospect to the Jets.
I've read a lot about Linderbaum, and it does seem he's a "can't miss" prospect but of course it's hard to take a Center at pick 4. I will say the team's only periods of recent success came with Mawae and Mangold manning the center position. It's a bit early though at this point to say what their draft will look like. It would be nice if a QB or 2 gain some steam which drops a prospect to the Jets.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Agree that it was tough to watch - almost like watching the second half of a preseason game with the lack of talent out there. Unlike other teams, cough Giants, the Jets fought until the end and that looks good on Saleh and his staff. Few thoughts
QB: Wilson was running for his life and literally had trash to throw to. Except for the stupid backwards scramble that Pineiro bailed him out of and that laser TD there was nothing to take out of this game except happy he made it out in one piece. He finished the season much better - looked more in command. Made solid reads and most importantly didnt turn the ball over. Definitely not a slam dunk but I think we all feel good about him going into next year - will be the same system/coordinators - and more talent next year so I expect a solid jump in year 2 - honeymoon over. Interesting to se what they so with Mike White or go vet backup
RB - Buff D shut it down yesterday - you could tell Carter was less than 100% - I like him for next year but they need to add another RB in FA - they are cheap and it would help to have another solid option - cant count on Coleman
WR - what a mess - did you guys see Mims sleepwalking through his patterns? What a bust. They had out there bottom tier starters. I thought we were past this with Elijah, Davis, Crowder, Berrios, Cole but none of them were out there by the end of Buffalo game. chalk that up to bad luck I guess but they need to add one more top playmaker - whether through FA - A-Rob's price just dropped big time - or draft.
TE - Ive seen enough of this draft - Id like to sign a real TE like Gesiski and draft another in 3rd rd - nothing helps young QB more than having a huge target to throw to - time to invest in this position.
OL - it was a MASH unit out there and it showed. In general the OL improved this year even without Becton. He's the one to watch - if he comes back trim and ready then they may not need to add too much - but if hes looking shaky then I can see them adding another stud - everyone is talking Lindabury and Im interested as well - if they trade down. Even studs like MAngold were late 1sts. If they fall in love with him Id do the reverse AVT deal and grab another 2d to get him
DL - Im concerned - out of all the units they had Q and JFM - they got run all over as usual. Q took a step back this year - still deserves an extension but should get a discount after this year. Now may be the time to strike - JFM looks like an overpay at this point - hope he shows mroe next year. Watching Akers come back so quick from the achilles team gives me hope for Lawson - if he comes back and they draft/add another pass rusher this unit could improve quickly.
LBs - Mosely was the best but thats not saying much - I think he did play good enough to restructure his contract and lower that salary but keep him another year. Besides him the rest are depth pieces - needs to be rebuilt.
DBs - Held their own vs a very strong Buf pass O - Need to add 1 solid CB and 2 safeties - gonna read a lot about Hamilton and Stingley next few months....
ST - May have finally found a kicker - Piniero looks solid. Mann took another step back and should be facing a camp battle. Get Berrios back as long as he doesnt get a monster deal - its so nice to have a solid returner.
Coaches - I think the coaches did enough to come back intact - not sure if they get new QB coach or keep Wilson's guy bu they need one.
Lots of time for FA/draft thoughts - but for now I think the season was acceptable considering how inexperienced they were across the board. Honeymoon is over- not giving a playoff mandate but they must be playing games that count in late Nov/early Dec at the least. This offseason is huge - I dont think the gaps between Dolphins and Pats is that huge - Buff is a bit better but they hung in there with scrubs - I fully expect to be competing for division title in 2023 if JD plays it right.
QB: Wilson was running for his life and literally had trash to throw to. Except for the stupid backwards scramble that Pineiro bailed him out of and that laser TD there was nothing to take out of this game except happy he made it out in one piece. He finished the season much better - looked more in command. Made solid reads and most importantly didnt turn the ball over. Definitely not a slam dunk but I think we all feel good about him going into next year - will be the same system/coordinators - and more talent next year so I expect a solid jump in year 2 - honeymoon over. Interesting to se what they so with Mike White or go vet backup
RB - Buff D shut it down yesterday - you could tell Carter was less than 100% - I like him for next year but they need to add another RB in FA - they are cheap and it would help to have another solid option - cant count on Coleman
WR - what a mess - did you guys see Mims sleepwalking through his patterns? What a bust. They had out there bottom tier starters. I thought we were past this with Elijah, Davis, Crowder, Berrios, Cole but none of them were out there by the end of Buffalo game. chalk that up to bad luck I guess but they need to add one more top playmaker - whether through FA - A-Rob's price just dropped big time - or draft.
TE - Ive seen enough of this draft - Id like to sign a real TE like Gesiski and draft another in 3rd rd - nothing helps young QB more than having a huge target to throw to - time to invest in this position.
OL - it was a MASH unit out there and it showed. In general the OL improved this year even without Becton. He's the one to watch - if he comes back trim and ready then they may not need to add too much - but if hes looking shaky then I can see them adding another stud - everyone is talking Lindabury and Im interested as well - if they trade down. Even studs like MAngold were late 1sts. If they fall in love with him Id do the reverse AVT deal and grab another 2d to get him
DL - Im concerned - out of all the units they had Q and JFM - they got run all over as usual. Q took a step back this year - still deserves an extension but should get a discount after this year. Now may be the time to strike - JFM looks like an overpay at this point - hope he shows mroe next year. Watching Akers come back so quick from the achilles team gives me hope for Lawson - if he comes back and they draft/add another pass rusher this unit could improve quickly.
LBs - Mosely was the best but thats not saying much - I think he did play good enough to restructure his contract and lower that salary but keep him another year. Besides him the rest are depth pieces - needs to be rebuilt.
DBs - Held their own vs a very strong Buf pass O - Need to add 1 solid CB and 2 safeties - gonna read a lot about Hamilton and Stingley next few months....
ST - May have finally found a kicker - Piniero looks solid. Mann took another step back and should be facing a camp battle. Get Berrios back as long as he doesnt get a monster deal - its so nice to have a solid returner.
Coaches - I think the coaches did enough to come back intact - not sure if they get new QB coach or keep Wilson's guy bu they need one.
Lots of time for FA/draft thoughts - but for now I think the season was acceptable considering how inexperienced they were across the board. Honeymoon is over- not giving a playoff mandate but they must be playing games that count in late Nov/early Dec at the least. This offseason is huge - I dont think the gaps between Dolphins and Pats is that huge - Buff is a bit better but they hung in there with scrubs - I fully expect to be competing for division title in 2023 if JD plays it right.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Re: John Beck...our resident not so likeable beat reported Rich Cimini brought up an interesting point.
If Beck is not officially part of the staff, he and Wilson can work together all Winter. If he is...they can't.
I'm guessing the NFL wouldn't take too kindly to any team gaming the system on this sort of thing. Could the Jets get away with not officially retaining Beck after the season and then "re-hiring" him prior to mini-camp if they wanted to? (as an assistant QB coach or whatever). PROBABLY not.
My guess is they probably just let him go (he was only hired for the end of the season) and revisit the QB coach position over the winter. Obviously the death of Knapp was unexpected and far from ideal. So the Beck hiring was probably just a gap-filling move to try and get Wilson more comfortable. Assuming that's the case, they better hire someone damn good.
If Beck is not officially part of the staff, he and Wilson can work together all Winter. If he is...they can't.
I'm guessing the NFL wouldn't take too kindly to any team gaming the system on this sort of thing. Could the Jets get away with not officially retaining Beck after the season and then "re-hiring" him prior to mini-camp if they wanted to? (as an assistant QB coach or whatever). PROBABLY not.
My guess is they probably just let him go (he was only hired for the end of the season) and revisit the QB coach position over the winter. Obviously the death of Knapp was unexpected and far from ideal. So the Beck hiring was probably just a gap-filling move to try and get Wilson more comfortable. Assuming that's the case, they better hire someone damn good.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Saw that too - I definitely think Wilson played better after Beck arrived...the Knapp death was really a much bigger hit football wise than expected. I think they get a more seasoned QB coach in the off season and Beck goes back to his business of working with QBs privately.
Crash Davis
Footballguy
The key thing is that they have the assets to really upgrade and round out the talent level. A lot left to play out but as has been mentioned they have 2 of the top 10 picks, 4 of the top 38 and ultimately 7 of the top 114 which means they can do just about whatever they want in the draft. The cap space is a nice compliment to that. There shouldn't be many excuses for glaring roster holes next year.
If I'm early dreaming, I would love Linderbaum. Having one of the Edge rushers fall to them at 4 and then trading back from 10 to say 15 and grabbing a stud C to anchor the line for the next decade while picking up a 2nd or something as well would be a dream scenario for me. I know everyone is clamoring for a WR, but I'll beat the drum for building a dominant OL forever. Protect Zach, run the ball down people's throats and yes definitely get a reliable TE and another WR to add to the mix. Those can be found in the 2nd and 3rd rounds or FA though IMHO. Build an offense that wins up front and lets your skill guys thrive. I don't want to see Zach running for his life anymore.
If I'm early dreaming, I would love Linderbaum. Having one of the Edge rushers fall to them at 4 and then trading back from 10 to say 15 and grabbing a stud C to anchor the line for the next decade while picking up a 2nd or something as well would be a dream scenario for me. I know everyone is clamoring for a WR, but I'll beat the drum for building a dominant OL forever. Protect Zach, run the ball down people's throats and yes definitely get a reliable TE and another WR to add to the mix. Those can be found in the 2nd and 3rd rounds or FA though IMHO. Build an offense that wins up front and lets your skill guys thrive. I don't want to see Zach running for his life anymore.
Chemical X
Footballguy
the jets need to turn 4 & 10 into 4-6 picks IMO, with 4 of those being in the 1st round. they need so much help, may as well leverage to get bodies in the building. if 1 of the edge rushers are at 4, take him, otherwise…..deal away. oh and fixing the front 11 on defense would help.
rockaction
Footballguy
That was a mess this past Sunday. Outclassed in every respect. Seattle losing to drop/rise (however you're looking at it) into the tenth spot in the draft due to SOS, when just a few weeks before, they'd been at five and would have been at six if they'd lost to AZ. That hurt. That's four spots down. Damn Kyler and the Cards.
We've got a long way to go to be the Bills. It can happen, though. Look at what the Bills have done over the past five years. We just need to have Wilson turn out like Allen, and voila, we're set.
Oof.
We've got a long way to go to be the Bills. It can happen, though. Look at what the Bills have done over the past five years. We just need to have Wilson turn out like Allen, and voila, we're set.
Oof.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
A mess is an understatement but cant forget they had 4th stringers out there. At some point when do injuries stop being flukes and start being about coaching/players. It seems they lose a ton every year
I analyzed the schedule and knew the Seattle pick was going to end up 10 or later - quite frankly its a gift at #10. Tey are a pretty good team and if Russell didnt miss all those games it would likely be at #20+.
Buffalo did it right and quick....not sure Jets can emulate but Allen played just as bad as Wilson his rookie year so its possible to make the leap - he sure seemed to get better once they brought in Diggs. Would like the Jets to do the same and add an alpha #1 WR through FA or draft. I trust that Saleh will get the defense right and hoping MLF's progress continues.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is extraordinarily true, but when they're down, you'd hope they'd stay down and that they wouldn't win that last game against a playoff team to jump almost out of the top ten. That was a bummer. Legit thought we had a chance of at least the six spot if they had lost.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
watching Buff crush NE was pleasing in many ways - the Jets scout team they put out there was more competitive than the Pats. Made me a bit more optimistic that if they nail the off season and actually stay healthy for once we could see a competitive squad as early as next year.
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh my, ever the optimist. I don't think so. I think we need to nail about two drafts in order to get that right. So far, Alijah Vera-Tucker and Elijah Moore look like great picks, the jury is more than out on Wilson, etc.
Considering what Buffalo just did to us, I'm betting that we've got a long, long way to go. If it weren't for their punter shanking everything, we would have been in even more trouble. Yes, Buffalo just boatraced NE, which warmed the porcelain cockles of my heart, that's for sure. But that doesn't have too much bearing on us, really.
We did beat the #1 seed, though. Albeit without A.J. Brown and Julio Jones, but we beat them.
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TLEF316
Footballguy
Given the cap space, draft picks (assuming they hit at a decent rate....) and all the injuries they had this year.....I dont think .500 should be out of the question next year if Wilson takes a decent step forward. He's not gonna be Herbert all of a sudden, but if he's even a slightly below average starter in year 2...its a big jump in production.
Just look at what they missed this year.....
-An entire season of Lawson
-Basically the entire season of Becton
-Wilson missed a quarter of the season (although...to be fair...they were more productive without him....)
-Davis missed 7 games
- Moore missed 6+ games
- Carter missed 3+ games
- Maye (I know he wont be back next year) missed 9+ games.
You could basically argue that each of the 5 most important offensive players (QB1, RB1, LT WR1 and WR2) all missed at least 3 games. And 2 of their 4 best defensive players coming into the year (I think most of us would have said Lawson, Q, Maye and Mosley) missed at least half the year. That's pretty nuts.
It all comes down to Wilson, obviously. Assuming Douglas does his job(at least 3 of those first 4 picks need to be day 1 starters) ....and year 2 Wilson is somewhere near year 1 Mac Jones (Is something like 3800 yards, 23 TD's, 15 picks with a little running production on 60-65% completion that much to ask? I really dont think so)
Just look at what they missed this year.....
-An entire season of Lawson
-Basically the entire season of Becton
-Wilson missed a quarter of the season (although...to be fair...they were more productive without him....)
-Davis missed 7 games
- Moore missed 6+ games
- Carter missed 3+ games
- Maye (I know he wont be back next year) missed 9+ games.
You could basically argue that each of the 5 most important offensive players (QB1, RB1, LT WR1 and WR2) all missed at least 3 games. And 2 of their 4 best defensive players coming into the year (I think most of us would have said Lawson, Q, Maye and Mosley) missed at least half the year. That's pretty nuts.
It all comes down to Wilson, obviously. Assuming Douglas does his job(at least 3 of those first 4 picks need to be day 1 starters) ....and year 2 Wilson is somewhere near year 1 Mac Jones (Is something like 3800 yards, 23 TD's, 15 picks with a little running production on 60-65% completion that much to ask? I really dont think so)
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
exactly - I know they are never healthy but if they are with their top players and you add all of the above guys that missed huge chunks of the season, another 3-4 solid starters through FA and another 3 or 4 solid starters through the draft - plus a real offseason not learning a new O or Def - this team should be competitive. Now by competitive I dont mean taking on the Bills for the division yet - I mean not being eliminated by Halloween and playing games that matter into late Nov/early Dec which would be a huge step fwd. Im usually a pessimist but I see a lot of things to be optimistic on
TLEF316
Footballguy
Kiper's mock has the Jets drafting Kyle Hamilton and Drake London.
I'm sure Hamilton is a great player.....but are we doing this again? Still a safety....... Even if he becomes Derwin James without the health concerns.....where does that get us? You want to tell me we can get him at 10? I'll listen. At 4? Come on.....
Drake London doesn't seem to make much sense either. They need a WR1 for sure, but from everything I read...this kid's strength is definitely not route running. So I just dont see the scheme fit.
Starting to like a trade down more and more.
I'm sure Hamilton is a great player.....but are we doing this again? Still a safety....... Even if he becomes Derwin James without the health concerns.....where does that get us? You want to tell me we can get him at 10? I'll listen. At 4? Come on.....
Drake London doesn't seem to make much sense either. They need a WR1 for sure, but from everything I read...this kid's strength is definitely not route running. So I just dont see the scheme fit.
Starting to like a trade down more and more.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
saw it as well and had same concerns - I will say this - from the tape Ive seen Hamilton is a much more complete player than Adams. He's a ball hawk and can cover which leads to way more potential. I agree that if you pick a safety that high he better be an elite player - but if they are convinced he is elite and is the best value Id rather have an elite safety than mediocre pass rusher/often injured CB.
As for WR - He chose London who is a monster WR from USC - watching his tape he looks like Evans. Huge target, especially in the endzone - Im sure Wilson would love that - didnt get much separation or show wheels but he looked legit.
Also liking what I am seeing out of the Ohio St WRs Wilson and Olave - watching tape on these guys they may be able to trade down from #10 and get one. I really think adding another weapon for Wilson would be huge. The OL was decent when healthy last year and adding Becton should be a huge upgrade assuming hes recovered and in shape. They can grab another guard in FAs and mid rds. Im focusing on a WR and TE to make the O legit - go defense with the other 2 top 4 picks. Lawson return along with the CBs getting another offseason to grow will be a huge improvement.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, I get that. I'm obviously no football genius, but I know enough to realize that prospects (even "elite" prospects) can have varying skill sets. We all know what Adams was/is and what he isn't. If Hamilton is an elite cover man/ball hawk as well, that's obviously a totally different (and much more valuable) dimension. Obviously twitter headlines will write themselves ("LOL, the Jets trade an all pro safety just to get another one 2 years later. ROFL") but at the end of the day, this defense needs impact guys. If they feel Hamilton brings more to the table than someone like Stingley (who never progressed from his all-world freshman year) or Karlaftis (who seems to be a reach from a talent standpoint in some people's opinions) so be it.
As for the WR's.....I honestly dont care what "type" they get. Just get someone really good...please. I was thinking about this yesterday....when is the last time the Jets had a top 10 skill player in the league at ANY offensive position? I guess its probably Brandon Marshall's 2015 season. Other than that, the last time the Jets had an ELITE skill player was probably Curtis Freaking Martin. OOF.
Just get me SOMEONE who can rush or receive 1,500 yards...please.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
good pts-
As for the Adams headlines - I look at it this way - JEts got a stud OL in AVT and 4 yrs of a more complete better on paper safety who will be dirt cheap compared to one dimensional Adams $20M contract and when Hamilton would be up for an extension it would hopefully be when the JEts are contenders and not paying for a high end safety on a crappy team
completely agree on WRs - watching some of these big time offensive teams, you cant have too many weapons. I think a tandem of a stud 1st rd WR, Davis, Elijah in slot with Berrios coming in as a 5th WR and gadget plays gives them serious weapons...if the OL continues to improve and Carter improves add a TE in FA and you have the best Jets O on paper in years. Yes the defense is still neglected a bit but I have more faith in Saleh scheming improvement with adding Lawson and a pick or 2 vs the O which is critical for Wilson's improvement. I can live with a year of losing 35-31 and go all defense in 2023.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yup. Very interested to see what they do at Tight end. Its time. They have to get something. Seen plenty of mock off-seasons that have them going after Schultz to the tune of like 4 years for 50. To me, that's a total pipe dream. If he makes to free agency (I have to imagine Dallas has some cap concerns given their overall talent level and what they're paying Zeke. Plus they'll have to pay Lamb and Diggs soon) everyone is gonna go for him. Seems unlikely he'd choose the Jets barring a massive overpay.
One of the two 2nd rounders seems like a logical spot if someone is worth it.
One of the two 2nd rounders seems like a logical spot if someone is worth it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Jets havent had a good TE since the 80s. Id like to get Schultz, Gesicki, Everett or Uzomah - the top TEs last year were paid $12.5M yr. They should have $70M to spend - I personally think a solid vet TE even for $13M yr would be a good investment.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't even need to click the link to let you know that nobody cares, really.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Jets have made themselves as easy target. They have only themselves to blame for being the butt of jokes. Imagine thinking you’re so cool running into a bad teams thread (ironic from a Browns fan) to let them know that team is the butt of a joke. Maybe he should worry about Broken Mayfield instead.
rockaction
Footballguy
I love Bracie and pray for his mental health every day.
Heh. You do you Bracie, I’m just kidding.
kind of.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Great games this weekend - I cant help thinking of the Jets future watching them - few thoughts
SF - SF success shows that the system and blueprint works - Saleh is a disciple and I think we can see some trends that they may follow. The SF def and pass rush is tremendous. I can see them going pass rush with the top pick looking to emulate with Lawson and a blue chip prospect. If the value isnt there at 4 perhaps there is a trade down. SF has a lot of mid rders on offense and seem to trust the Shanny system - Im hoping the Jets are different there. From 2015-18 they averaged 6 or less wins per season. It took 3 yrs under Shanny and the GM before they finally broke out with a 13 win season.
Cincy - If ever a team is a blueprint for hope its the Bengals. They won 2 games in 2019 and 4 games last season - young coach they stuck with but everything changed with 2 drafts - stud QB and WR. Getting Chase was monsterous for the Bengals but cant forget they also had some solid 2d tier WRs and a good RB around them - defense was solid too. OL is a disasters. Looking at this for the Jets - I really think Zach needs his Chase. Elijah and Davis would be akin to the Higgins/Boyd but Wilson needs an alpha like Chase. Also cant underestimate how huge Uzomah was to Burrow - lots of big catches. Im very high on replicating this with a stud WR in the 1st rd (understand they are not getting a stud like Chase but there seems to be a few blue chip WR1 alphas out there). They also must get a solid TE - coincidentally Uzomah may be available although Cincy has a lot of cap space and would be crazy to lose him - they must either sign or draft a premium TE.
Buff - Watching that team last 2 games I was shocked the JEts B team kept it as close as they did. They are the new Pats and will be a tough out the next decade. Allen is an elite QB but they can be beat - must admit I was a bit depressed watching Allen but I know there is no way he would be that QB is drafted by the JEts.
KC - Same with KC - seems that the AFC has all the elite QBs - going to be very tough to get back to the Super Bowl in the next decade without Zach turning into one of the elite as well. Heres hoping!
SF - SF success shows that the system and blueprint works - Saleh is a disciple and I think we can see some trends that they may follow. The SF def and pass rush is tremendous. I can see them going pass rush with the top pick looking to emulate with Lawson and a blue chip prospect. If the value isnt there at 4 perhaps there is a trade down. SF has a lot of mid rders on offense and seem to trust the Shanny system - Im hoping the Jets are different there. From 2015-18 they averaged 6 or less wins per season. It took 3 yrs under Shanny and the GM before they finally broke out with a 13 win season.
Cincy - If ever a team is a blueprint for hope its the Bengals. They won 2 games in 2019 and 4 games last season - young coach they stuck with but everything changed with 2 drafts - stud QB and WR. Getting Chase was monsterous for the Bengals but cant forget they also had some solid 2d tier WRs and a good RB around them - defense was solid too. OL is a disasters. Looking at this for the Jets - I really think Zach needs his Chase. Elijah and Davis would be akin to the Higgins/Boyd but Wilson needs an alpha like Chase. Also cant underestimate how huge Uzomah was to Burrow - lots of big catches. Im very high on replicating this with a stud WR in the 1st rd (understand they are not getting a stud like Chase but there seems to be a few blue chip WR1 alphas out there). They also must get a solid TE - coincidentally Uzomah may be available although Cincy has a lot of cap space and would be crazy to lose him - they must either sign or draft a premium TE.
Buff - Watching that team last 2 games I was shocked the JEts B team kept it as close as they did. They are the new Pats and will be a tough out the next decade. Allen is an elite QB but they can be beat - must admit I was a bit depressed watching Allen but I know there is no way he would be that QB is drafted by the JEts.
KC - Same with KC - seems that the AFC has all the elite QBs - going to be very tough to get back to the Super Bowl in the next decade without Zach turning into one of the elite as well. Heres hoping!
rockaction
Footballguy
The mocks they're doing have some good players going to the Jets. They're often mocking an offensive lineman to them, which would a thing of beauty if Becton were to round into form, too.
Watching the games this weekend just let me know how far away the Jets are, actually. Aside from Cincinnati, most of those teams have had sustained excellence or imported excellence for about three years now, and it all starts at QB. I was heartened reading Chris Simms's ranking of Wilson (yes, I know. Chris Simms.) as the number one his draft class. It got me thinking to the Tennessee game and the end of the Carolina game and the flashes of talent there before he started spraying five yard throws at guys' feet. I think maybe there was a huge confidence thing going on.
I remember seeing Drew Brees play live in San Diego when he was lost first starting out. He looked as bad against the Raiders one day as I'd ever seen a promising QB, and I walked away thinking, "This guy is horrible." Well, he was in his second year and it came to pass that the light went on and this guy who couldn't throw a screen without getting turned around on his own and picked (swear I've never seen a pick as bad as the one he threw that day) was a Hall of Famer. So who knows with Wilson? Maybe he surprises us all and turns out awesome. Would be nice to see a DL and an OL in the draft and a receiver in free agency, actually.
Anyway, there's hope, fellas. Let's ride this train and see if it takes us somewhere nice.
Watching the games this weekend just let me know how far away the Jets are, actually. Aside from Cincinnati, most of those teams have had sustained excellence or imported excellence for about three years now, and it all starts at QB. I was heartened reading Chris Simms's ranking of Wilson (yes, I know. Chris Simms.) as the number one his draft class. It got me thinking to the Tennessee game and the end of the Carolina game and the flashes of talent there before he started spraying five yard throws at guys' feet. I think maybe there was a huge confidence thing going on.
I remember seeing Drew Brees play live in San Diego when he was lost first starting out. He looked as bad against the Raiders one day as I'd ever seen a promising QB, and I walked away thinking, "This guy is horrible." Well, he was in his second year and it came to pass that the light went on and this guy who couldn't throw a screen without getting turned around on his own and picked (swear I've never seen a pick as bad as the one he threw that day) was a Hall of Famer. So who knows with Wilson? Maybe he surprises us all and turns out awesome. Would be nice to see a DL and an OL in the draft and a receiver in free agency, actually.
Anyway, there's hope, fellas. Let's ride this train and see if it takes us somewhere nice.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Theres hope - Allen's 1st season was as bad as Wilson's. If you told me he'd be this good during his rookie year Id have been shocked. He took a big step yr 2 but not a quantum elite leap until yr 3. Coincidentally enough when they got him an alpha WR. Allen/Diggs; MAhomes/Hill; Burrow/Chase; Rodgers/Adams; Staffford/Cupp; Brady/Evans; Jimmy G/Deebo - the blueprint seems to suggest the need for a big time WR to help make that leap. Im all in on a WR in the 1st rd.
Crash Davis
Footballguy
I'll really might brake something if they take anything other than OT or EDGE at 4. If you don't like the guys available at those positions when you are up then you try your absolute best to trade down and pick up another 1st/2nd depending on how far down to add more players in the needed positions (which is to say all of them).
At 10 I'm more flexible, but I'm still on an island that you don't waste that pick on a S or WR. Yes, all the best offenses have lots of weapons, but Diggs, Hill, Adams, Kupp, and Deebo were all picked in the 2nd round or later. It's not QB, OT, or Edge where you generally have to get lucky where a top pick lines up with a premium player at that position being available. Seems to me the best teams get their offensive weapons in the 2nd/3rd. Chase is the exception, not the rule. If you told me you can come away from this draft with one of the top EDGE guys at 4, a stud for the OL and then a WR/TE combo in the 2nd and 3rd that is going to pull from a talented list in their own right I'm all over that. McBride is a guy I'd love to see the Jets land. I'm not saying he's Kittle, but get a guy that can play that role for Zach and add another WR at the top of the 2nd from the group that drops. Build a wall in front of Zach and deepen the skill position talent pool around him so teams don't know who to cover or what is coming.
At 10 I'm more flexible, but I'm still on an island that you don't waste that pick on a S or WR. Yes, all the best offenses have lots of weapons, but Diggs, Hill, Adams, Kupp, and Deebo were all picked in the 2nd round or later. It's not QB, OT, or Edge where you generally have to get lucky where a top pick lines up with a premium player at that position being available. Seems to me the best teams get their offensive weapons in the 2nd/3rd. Chase is the exception, not the rule. If you told me you can come away from this draft with one of the top EDGE guys at 4, a stud for the OL and then a WR/TE combo in the 2nd and 3rd that is going to pull from a talented list in their own right I'm all over that. McBride is a guy I'd love to see the Jets land. I'm not saying he's Kittle, but get a guy that can play that role for Zach and add another WR at the top of the 2nd from the group that drops. Build a wall in front of Zach and deepen the skill position talent pool around him so teams don't know who to cover or what is coming.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
The draft experts are saying that the #1 guy this year wouldn't even make the top 10 of last year. That's a bit disheartening considering we have 2 top 10 picks. Just our luck as usual.
If one of the two top pass rushers aren't available (and neither one is expected to be elite), I would go o-line. God knows that Becton can't stay healthy. Fant may be gone in another year. You can always play one at guard while they gain experience and it's good having a good swingman unlike the usual garbage that we roll out.
If we add to both the o-line and d-line with our first 2 picks, then that's probably as good as it gets for us.
We definitely need a TE (or two) and another WR. Use both of our second rounders. They can go defense after that. No way in hell do I want a Safety or CB at 4. I keep seeing these mocks taking the CB at 4. Puke. An oft-injured CB that peaked 2 years ago in a system where they never go CB early seems like the laziest of mock draft selections. Hamilton seems ok, but that safety position is so de-valued. No thanks, but I rather have him than Stingley Jr by far.
This team needs some speed on offense and defense. Hopefully JD doesn't waste money on crappy free agents again. I'm not sold on JD. Does some things well (trades) and some things awful. We'll see if he changes his philosophy in FA.
They should probably add a TE and S in free agency. Maybe a WR,LB,CB, G. Too early to see who will make it to free agency after franchise tags and releases at this point. Please JD, no more spending on crap like Jarrad Davis, Freeney, Kroft, etc.
Round 1: 2 picks (4, 10) Edge/O-line
Round 2 - 2 picks (35, 38) WR/TE
Round 3 - 1 pick (69) Safety
Round 4 - 2 picks (108, 114) RB/LB
Round 5 - 2 picks (144, 159) CB and FB/TE.
If one of the two top pass rushers aren't available (and neither one is expected to be elite), I would go o-line. God knows that Becton can't stay healthy. Fant may be gone in another year. You can always play one at guard while they gain experience and it's good having a good swingman unlike the usual garbage that we roll out.
If we add to both the o-line and d-line with our first 2 picks, then that's probably as good as it gets for us.
We definitely need a TE (or two) and another WR. Use both of our second rounders. They can go defense after that. No way in hell do I want a Safety or CB at 4. I keep seeing these mocks taking the CB at 4. Puke. An oft-injured CB that peaked 2 years ago in a system where they never go CB early seems like the laziest of mock draft selections. Hamilton seems ok, but that safety position is so de-valued. No thanks, but I rather have him than Stingley Jr by far.
This team needs some speed on offense and defense. Hopefully JD doesn't waste money on crappy free agents again. I'm not sold on JD. Does some things well (trades) and some things awful. We'll see if he changes his philosophy in FA.
They should probably add a TE and S in free agency. Maybe a WR,LB,CB, G. Too early to see who will make it to free agency after franchise tags and releases at this point. Please JD, no more spending on crap like Jarrad Davis, Freeney, Kroft, etc.
Round 1: 2 picks (4, 10) Edge/O-line
Round 2 - 2 picks (35, 38) WR/TE
Round 3 - 1 pick (69) Safety
Round 4 - 2 picks (108, 114) RB/LB
Round 5 - 2 picks (144, 159) CB and FB/TE.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I get the value of positions at #4 but if the safety is a clear all world player vs crap shoots then Id rather go for the player with the most talent. This team needs leaders and blue chip players - even if at a lesser impact position.
I think #10 is far back enough to grab a WR if a clear alpha is available - I understand that WRs can be had in the 2d rd but if they think there is a game changer in the 1st Im fine with that.
Im also down with a OT/Edge - I dont like CB at #4 - maybe #10 but I think they can get one later or in FA and work with what they have so far.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Sooo the Jets beat the AFC Super Bowl representative - I guess thats something
Cincy has shown a blueprint on how to do this - solid across the board on defense and offense but not a ton of all world players. The key obviously is the QB but they developed him well and surrounded him with a solid core. He doesnt have an elite OL as we've seen and it didnt hurt them badly. Chase was the missing link but they also have 2 other very solid WR, above average RB and TE.
Obviously most hinges on Wilson taking the next step and developing like Burrow - Zach didnt have a rookie year close to JB but he also came out healthy and the Jets will be able to add a lot to the roster. This makes me really want to invest even more in the offense. the QB is the key period - defenses can be schemed and fixed much quicker - ZW's development and weapons has to be #1 priority. Add a top end or blue chip WR and TE with FA or two of the top 4 picks.
Cincy has shown a blueprint on how to do this - solid across the board on defense and offense but not a ton of all world players. The key obviously is the QB but they developed him well and surrounded him with a solid core. He doesnt have an elite OL as we've seen and it didnt hurt them badly. Chase was the missing link but they also have 2 other very solid WR, above average RB and TE.
Obviously most hinges on Wilson taking the next step and developing like Burrow - Zach didnt have a rookie year close to JB but he also came out healthy and the Jets will be able to add a lot to the roster. This makes me really want to invest even more in the offense. the QB is the key period - defenses can be schemed and fixed much quicker - ZW's development and weapons has to be #1 priority. Add a top end or blue chip WR and TE with FA or two of the top 4 picks.
TLEF316
Footballguy
To me, the NFL is just turning more and more into.....
- Keep your QB upright, surround him with explosive weapons and score as many points as you can
- Build your defense around opportunistic plays, sacrificing "solid defensive principles" for sacks and turnovers.
Obviously you can't be so weak against the run that the opposing team just runs it down your throat all game, but if you can just be decent there while scoring touchdowns, you eventually force them to try and keep up.
- Keep your QB upright, surround him with explosive weapons and score as many points as you can
- Build your defense around opportunistic plays, sacrificing "solid defensive principles" for sacks and turnovers.
Obviously you can't be so weak against the run that the opposing team just runs it down your throat all game, but if you can just be decent there while scoring touchdowns, you eventually force them to try and keep up.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
agree completely - even teams with good defenses are letting up a lot of pts. In order to win it seems a big time offense is the way. There were a few games where the defense kept it close enough for the offense to pull it out - and the D was terrible this year. I expect even with just Lawson back and a full offseason with what they have it would be better - add in a few Fas and rookies and this should be a respectable defense. Gotta build the offense tho - give ZW a wall and a lot of weapons. It can be done in one season and still have enough draft picks/cap room to improve the defense more.
OL - with Becton hopefully healthy they are 1 above avg OL away from this being a very good unit. Id use the 2d or 3rd rder on another guard or center.
RB - Id like one more dynamic RB to pair with Carter as he's too small to be a bell cow - good news is RBs are cheap and you can get them in the mid rds.
TE - Id love to see them sign one of the better TEs and draft one in the 2d rd.
WR - Im sold on the chase effect - Elijah, Davis and Berrios are a nice base - add a real #1 and you are talking very good array of weapons. Id like to see a Mike Williams or A-Rob in FA - if not draft one in the 1st with $#10 or trade down.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'd be a little worried about over-paying either of these guys. Williams played like a guy in his contract year and Robinson seems in decline.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
We got a great deal for Adams and he's way over-paid now but this does describe what he brings to the table.
I think the key is a (hopefully) healthy Lawson and a top rookie edge rusher on the other side. Being able to get pressure with 4/5 man rushing is the key.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
MWill will probably need to be overpaid - though I heard he may be franchised - I think A-Rob had Chicago fatigue and they may be able to get a on reasonable contract. Hes only 28 - but Id be all for passing and drafting a possible stud WR with #10
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Watching SF its all about their pass rush - healthy Lawson and a rookie edge would really transform this defense. Id much rather go pass rush in draft with one of the 1st rders
TLEF316
Footballguy
So I have to say.....after watching some Kyle Hamilton tape....I get it. His ball skills, range and fluidity in coverage REALLY jump out on tape.
He's obviously a tall, sort of lean guy....so I'm a little skeptical about him holding up in the run game (in terms of in-the-box stuff. He makes some really nice read and react plays on the edge) but that's not why you're drafting him anyway.
Still not saying I want to take him at 4 (which is where I think you;d have to take him) but I dont doubt that he's absolutely an impact player.
Still not worth hemming and hawing about it though. So much can change between now and the draft. I still believe SOMEONE is gonna fall in love with a QB and want to trade up. Plus a lot of people are speculating that Ekwonu could force his way into the top 3. So I think there's a good chance one of the edges could fall to #4.
He's obviously a tall, sort of lean guy....so I'm a little skeptical about him holding up in the run game (in terms of in-the-box stuff. He makes some really nice read and react plays on the edge) but that's not why you're drafting him anyway.
Still not saying I want to take him at 4 (which is where I think you;d have to take him) but I dont doubt that he's absolutely an impact player.
Still not worth hemming and hawing about it though. So much can change between now and the draft. I still believe SOMEONE is gonna fall in love with a QB and want to trade up. Plus a lot of people are speculating that Ekwonu could force his way into the top 3. So I think there's a good chance one of the edges could fall to #4.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
His tape is really impressive - much better than Adams which is really saying something. Hes a much more all around safety and would instantly upgrade the defense. That being said he's still a safety and if an as good or better prospect is there at one of the premium positions they need then I get going with that - but If they ae graded lower Id rather go with a lesser position with a guaranteed high end player then roll the dice just due to position.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, that's the thing. If its Hamilton or Karloftis (who was mocked to the Jets in a few early mocks. Seems like that's cooled down) I'm certainly rather have Hamilton. Even Stingley....There's some question marks there and they can just as easily sign a CB in free agency.
If its him vs Neal or Ekwonu.....I dont know. Tough call. I would feel SO much better if I knew that Becton was the player we thought he would be a year ago. His fall really creates a GIANT potential hole that they could obviously address right now if needed.
Gun to my head right now (assuming no trades and the top 3 remains the 2 pass rushers and one of the tackles) I think I'm just taking the other tackle at 4. If Becton rebounds....great. Move him to the right side. If he doesn't, you're covered. Too important of a position to F around. Fant is the variable of course. Do they believe in him as a semi-long term solution on the left side? It seems so. So again....its about Becton. (could you just play him on the right side?)
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don't think the Jets are in any position to draft for "need" or "by positional value" - they need impact players - PERIOD. If Kyle Hamilton is the best player left at 4, I have no issue with them taking him. Just because Adams wasn't worth the high pick (and there's arguments to be made that he was) doesn't mean drafting Hamilton would be a mistake.
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