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2023 Philadelphia Eagles - Complete waste of a season finally comes to an end. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter The Noid
- Start date
The Noid
Avoid me!
Wonder how much CCJGJ is feeling some animosity about switching to S and seeing that market compared to CBs. The CB market isn't exactly booming but it's a big amount more than what safeties are getting. If he decides to take a 1-year prove it deal and see what next off-season brings, he could decide to do it somewhere else if he thinks the Eagles moving him affected him negatively.
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
I'm way past the point of knowing any inside info. My buddy isn't even in the NFL anymore. He's working as a high level exec at a investment firm now.Possibly, we're just speculating. Strange things happen on draft day. IF he's there, I'd still want him on the Eagles.
I didn't think the legal issues would cause much of a draft day slide, but coupled with his pro day tape he could drop further than we anticipate. Of course if my memory is correct, you may have some knowledge of how teams view him that we don't.
Always good to see you post here.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Would've rather they talked to AJ McCarron and see if he was interested in coming back to the NFL and be on a good football. Not a fan of signing a guy who quit on his team unless that was just some ******** cover that ATL was trying to use just get Ridder playing time.
Honestly should've just kept Minshew
DJackson10
Footballguy
Thats a lot of ******** right there. Just from experience talking to coaches they don't give a **** about this as long as you play well. Most will just see it as him voicing frustration and there were others upset as well. Slay would've done it himself but he was too worried about his own contract and having a **** measuring contest with JuJu.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Do you know how many of these guys talk like that though? Quiet a few. I was around the Saint Joe's Prep squad. Now you'd think for a private school the kids there would have better grammar and not talk in ghetto slang, etc. Wrong My cousin and others said if you around them long enough you learn to translate what they are saying. I remember reading an article awhile back how some teachers in Philly wanted a dictionary of all the slang the kids were using so they could understand them. There was a black kid in my special ed classes I took back in HS that talked like this constantly too. It's more of a cultural thing then anything else. You might think these guys are dumb because of how they talk but quiet a few are very smart. IF the dude can play football and understands it coaches don't give a flying **** how you talk, when the production speaks for itself. Teams are just getting smarter with how they spend their $$$ IMHO.
Plus it's a buyers market at Safety this year. Even top guy didn't get that much in Jessie Bates.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Wouldn't take him at that position too risky. If we traded back and he was there at 15 or lower I'd seriously consider it
DJackson10
Footballguy
Jessie Bates got a lower deal then expected himself too. However CJGJ and Bates plus Vonn Bell are all better then Love to begin with
DJackson10
Footballguy
Combines and pro days do nothing but hurt the top guys most times. Even scouts I've talked to said this. They wouldn't hold it against the a top Hundred guys if he skipped the combine or the pro day especially if they had a good combine. These are more so for the guys who need to up their draft stock. Only thing these top guys would participate in this time is the interview process and height weight and measurements since you can't get up close and personal with these guys on college game days. It sucks because not everyone gets invited to the combine who really should. Thankfully with the XFL becoming more of a developmental league and the USFL some of these fringe guys have more opportunities to put some game tape up. Theres a few guys from last USFL season who got on and contributed to NFL Teams this past year.
Honestly if I'm a scout GM I'm more worried about what's on the game tape and then I want to get in the film room and talk to them. See how they think, give them plays ask what they'd do in certain situations came up in locker room or media how they'd act. Because frankly anyone could show up and be a work out warrior. What does that really prove other then you work out well? The Senior bowl and other bowls for the prospects are good for them too.
DJackson10
Footballguy
If teams are worried about how to handle that while allowing rapist, domestic abusers, drug users and complete scumbags into their locker room I have to question a lot of these owners GMs then if how a player like CJGJ is perceived instead of a Kareem Hunt, Watson, Mike Vick, etc are. I'm be way more concerned about having those guys join my locker room then anyone else.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I think the argument for him was he wanted to be paid like a safety seeing what they were getting. Saints wanted to pay him as a Nickel CB who could play Safety a little. The Saints didn't even want to pay him #1 or #2 CB money nor viewed him as a safety.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Now it looks like Mills and possibly Byard, who’s from Philly I believe, may also hit the market. Gonna be very interesting
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Haven’t watched much of them but I think I read that Love graded out better then CJGJ this year
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Can you unpack this a bit? I don’t see it the same and just would like some perspective.
Deamon
Footballguy
Minshew was horrible last year. He had a fun little run the couple years before that, but he's fizzled out.
Mariota also runs the read option and can run with the ball well. So not only is he a better QB than Minshew (maybe marginally), if he has to step in for Hurts then they can run the same plays/offense for him.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Not sure he's really an upgrade overall, but he certainly fits the Eagles scheme wise a bit better.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Mariota had just as many touchdown passes as a divisional rival QB that just signed a $160M extension.
Well strictly from an ability standpoint. I'd call Mariota a D+ and Minshew a D-, and that's assuming a neutral scheme, obviously the gap becomes wider when much of the scheme involves a QB running. To apply some numbers to it:
Last season Mariota had a higher completion %, with a similar aDOT, and a better TD/INT %. That was despite Minshew's starts coming with arguably the best supporting cast in the NFL, and Mariota's being a rookie WR and part of a season with a good TE.
One of my favorite PFF stats is Big time throw vs Turnover worthy throw, think of it like TD/INT ratio, if the WR/CB didn't matter. Mariota's ratio wasn't good at 8/15, which basically means he had 6 passes that should have been INTs but weren't and 7 TDs that were more about the pass catcher making a great play. Minshew on the other hand had a 0/5 ratio, meaning all 3 of his TD passes, were deemed pass catcher wins, where as even in just 2 games, Minshew had 2 more passes that should have been INTs.
The Eagles lost 3 regular season games last year, Minshew was the QB in 2 of them, and I'd put both losses on him. His 3 turnovers in the Dallas game led directly to 17 Dallas points in a game Philly lost by 6, and his leading the offense to literally nothing but 3 and outs in the 1st half of the Saints game (5 total) and a game sealing pick six.
Ultimately these are both backup caliber players, but I think Mariota is a quality backup, and Minshew is more of a desperation backup. If Minshew plays like he did last year, with the Colts supporting cast instead of the NFL's best, I think he may be XFL bound before long.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Name names please haha. And being real, he is/was. But backups are backups for a reason. Just the scheme we had this year didn't quite matchup well and he definitely had more faith in Quez than us.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Looks like Seumalo to Stealers for 3 years.
Insein
Footballguy
Good for him. Hope he got a ton.
Deamon
Footballguy
Gained a Duck and lost a Beaver. Bad day for me.
Terpman22
Footballguy
3 years 28M or something like that. Will be counting toward the compensatory picks next year.
Eagles are right now projected to have TWELVE (12) 2024 draft picks including 5 in the first 3 rounds.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I'd still take Gardner over MM any day of the week
Deamon
Footballguy
And now Cooks to Dallas. This is a nightmare.
Terpman22
Footballguy
LOL what. Cooks is nice, but he ain't Hopkins. YPC the last 2 years were his lowest since his rookie year, has at least 3 known concussions, 2 out of last 4 years *did not* get to 1k yards and even still never topped 1200 ever. He's a solid role player that will be in/out of the slot, but let's not act like he's going to come in a be a WR1. They probably got a true WR1 in CeeDee and 2 WR3 guys if we are being honest, and that is if Gallup is actually back to being his old self, which we do not know yet.
Eagles are still the class of the NFC b/c we have the best QB in the conference, and we don't know how much he is going to improve next year, but considering he has *every single year* of his college and pro career I think we are in a good spot. Certainly not having nightmares about Brandin Cooks who is so good, he's on his *checks note* 5th team in 9 seasons.
Deamon
Footballguy
I do think it's a good fit for them, but I said it was a nightmare because of the above post. Am a big Oregon State fan and always loved Cooks so hate seeing him there.
DJackson10
Footballguy
And CJGJ goes to Get on 1 year deal. Eagles desperately need safeties now
The Noid
Avoid me!
Took $6.5M guaranteed from DET for a 1-year prove it. Have to think Eagles would have paid that.
The Noid
Avoid me!
CJGJ deal not being what we expected also doesn’t help our comp picks. Now that everything is pretty much settled, we’re likely coming away with a 3, 5, 5, 6 in 2024. There’s going to be a record amount of 3rd round comp picks overall (with all the exec/coach ones), which pretty much inserts an extra round after the real 3rd round, so a comp 5th rounder is almost like a 7th rounder.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The fact we didn’t match is more telling. Loved him while he was here but there’s more to this story.
Doug B
Footballguy
Gardner-Johnson felt slighted when the Saints offered him a multi-year deal at around $9.5 - 10 million/year to make him the highest-paid nickel defender in the league. His agent was pushing for $12-14 million/year.
Terpman22
Footballguy
CJGJ to the Lions. Eagles offered a multi year contact at the outset, but after he declined, they moved on to retain Bradberry and extend Slay. Always was gonna be tough to bring em all back. Time to really trust in Howie here. Seems this agent and player definitely misplayed their market and position.
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The Noid
Avoid me!
Eagles “side” of the story, via 3 different beats (Reuben Frank, Jeff McClean, John Clark) reporting some version of the same thing:
I'm told the Eagles did indeed make an offer at the start of free agency, but it wasn't what C.J. wanted, and he turned it down, and by the time he realized he had misjudged the market, the Eagles had moved onto other priorities. So he signed for less with Detroit.
Not sure how much of that is spin, as they certainly could have matched the DET offer after Slay restructured.
I'm told the Eagles did indeed make an offer at the start of free agency, but it wasn't what C.J. wanted, and he turned it down, and by the time he realized he had misjudged the market, the Eagles had moved onto other priorities. So he signed for less with Detroit.
Not sure how much of that is spin, as they certainly could have matched the DET offer after Slay restructured.
nightmare
Footballguy
Eagles can't match the offer with $1.2 mill in cap space.
Bad timing. Once C.J knew he wasn't getting his bigger bag of cash, Howie had moved on.
Howie had a plan on spending and was on a tight budget AND timeline. The Eagles had a lot of
free agents ranked in the top 50 and are going to lose a few.
Deamon
Footballguy
Wow that blows. How would he not take that from us?
@The Noid might be right and he might have been mad about us moving him to S. Definitely more going on to it than simply money, cause have to think Howie would have found a way to get him 8M for 1 year.
Wonder if we should have franchised him in hindsight (though he prob wouldn't have been happy with that... but if he's taking 1/8 anyways, whats even the S Franchise dollar amount anyways?
@The Noid might be right and he might have been mad about us moving him to S. Definitely more going on to it than simply money, cause have to think Howie would have found a way to get him 8M for 1 year.
Wonder if we should have franchised him in hindsight (though he prob wouldn't have been happy with that... but if he's taking 1/8 anyways, whats even the S Franchise dollar amount anyways?
No biggie in my opinion. He was the least valuable one. I've always found CJGJ to be overrated. I'm not sure they'd lose too much if they make Blankenship a full-time player, though I suspect DB was always going to be a draft target anyway.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Franchise tag woulda been 14 mil I think
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m also confused by that. He was relatively cheap.
Slay is a much better player at a more valuable position.
Cox is a team leader, and still contributes a bit.
I don't really get the love of Gardner-Johnson. He's ok, but both NO and Philly decided he wasn't worth paying, and I'm struggling to see any reason why either team is wrong.
Deamon
Footballguy
I don't think it was an OR. If it was, I agree with you that they should have signed CJ over them. I really don't think he would have taken a 1 year/8M deal in Philly. I'm confident if he would have taken that BEFORE we re-signed slay and cox, that we would have signed him to that.
Terpman22
Footballguy
It's simply team philosophy really. The Birds value the Defensive Line and Cornerbacks above all other positions outside of QB. Cox is a team leader, and there really isn't a replacement for him on the roster at the moment. Cox is a team leader and a big voice in the locker room, an Eagles legend and possible Hall of Famer. Also he had 7 sacks last year, which only 6 other DT's had at least or more. One was on our roster last year in Hargrave. CJ, as much as I personally loved him due to his playmaking and personality, PFF had him ranked in the 50's for safety play last year, for what value you put in their grading, if any, or a lot. Howie always has a backup plan, but he likes going into the draft without a glaring need, and if we had NOT signed Cox, it was a pretty big need going into the draft.
Kevin Byard is a name to watch now. Philly native, just cut. Played with AJ Brown, so he can give a good pitch on our culture here to him.
modogg
Footballguy
i agree a bit with the Cox thing, but DT is a little light after Hargrave left, in particular one who can rush the passer. Cox is a little long in the tooth, but he can still get pressure occasionally.
I did enjoy CJGJ on the team, but i think his numbers are a little misleading. He led the league in INTs while missing multiple games, but 3-4 of those INTs were little bit of gifts. he probably was a hardest hitter in the secondary which will be missed too, but getting Byard from Tennessee who i think had 103 tackles last year is a fine replacement there. i think Byard is around 30, but i am sure he has some good years left and will be much cheaper.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Because he took too long to decide.
I think they would have signed Gardner over them...but when he didnt take the Eagles initial offerings, they moved on. By the time he realized he wasnt getting the multi year contract he wanted, the Eagles had already spent the money they would have allocated for him. There's also a lot less cap flexibility in one year deals - multi year deals you spread out the hit, Howie adds extra years to spread out the bonus, etc.. If its a straight one year deal it's harder to fit. So once the Eagles had moved on, he had to too.
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