2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (10 Viewers)

[steelers1080]

Let's be honest, the 2000's / 2010's Steelers got royally F***ED by having to compete with Peyton and the Brady-led Patriots. They represented the AFC in the vast majority of Super Bowls during those decades. People think the AFC is stacked now, but those 2 QBs had a strangle hold on the playoff bye year after year. If the Steelers were in the NFC during the last 20 years I think we have at least 1-2 more Super Bowls.

It's wasn't because of the Colts or Broncos coaches that Peyton-led teams were amazing, and it might not have been because of BB that the Pats were the dynasty they were. Peyton and Brady wrecked the AFC and we were one of their victims. Even if we didn't end up reaching the AFC Championship to play them, we missed out on byes and there's no guarantee we would have gotten past them if we did win the 1st game.

If nothing changes over the next 2 years, aka if we don't get a playoff win within 2 years, then yeah it's probably time to move on (excluding obvious circumstances, like making the playoffs at 14-3 but losing our QB to injury).

 

[steelers1080]

Let's be honest, the 2000's / 2010's Steelers got royally F***ED by having to compete with Peyton and the Brady-led Patriots. They represented the AFC in the vast majority of Super Bowls during those decades. People think the AFC is stacked now, but those 2 QBs had a strangle hold on the playoff bye year after year. If the Steelers were in the NFC during the last 20 years I think we have at least 1-2 more Super Bowls.

It's wasn't because of the Colts or Broncos coaches that Peyton-led teams were amazing, and it might not have been because of BB that the Pats were the dynasty they were. Peyton and Brady wrecked the AFC and we were one of their victims. Even if we didn't end up reaching the AFC Championship to play them, we missed out on byes and there's no guarantee we would have gotten past them if we did win the 1st game.

If nothing changes over the next 2 years, aka if we don't get a playoff win within 2 years, then yeah it's probably time to move on (excluding obvious circumstances, like making the playoffs at 14-3 but losing our QB to injury).

The Chiefs have been similarly dominant in the regular season, but less so in the playoffs.

 

[Dizzy]

Let's be honest, the 2000's / 2010's Steelers got royally F***ED by having to compete with Peyton and the Brady-led Patriots. They represented the AFC in the vast majority of Super Bowls during those decades. People think the AFC is stacked now, but those 2 QBs had a strangle hold on the playoff bye year after year. If the Steelers were in the NFC during the last 20 years I think we have at least 1-2 more Super Bowls.

It's wasn't because of the Colts or Broncos coaches that Peyton-led teams were amazing, and it might not have been because of BB that the Pats were the dynasty they were. Peyton and Brady wrecked the AFC and we were one of their victims. Even if we didn't end up reaching the AFC Championship to play them, we missed out on byes and there's no guarantee we would have gotten past them if we did win the 1st game.

If nothing changes over the next 2 years, aka if we don't get a playoff win within 2 years, then yeah it's probably time to move on (excluding obvious circumstances, like making the playoffs at 14-3 but losing our QB to injury).

Could have just left it at Ben Roethlisberger was a level below Brady and Manning. Period. Nobody got screwed... they just had superior QBs.

Regarding the Patriots, they never went to the Super Bowl without having homefield locked up. During most of the BB/TB era they played in one of the weakest Divisions in the NFL. It felt like they went 6-0 or 5-1 in their Division every year. Smooth sailing for most of their regular seasons.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Tomlin has had a mixed bag when it comes to his playoff career:

--He was successful from 2008-2010 with 2 superbowl appearances (and one win) in 3 years
--He struggled from 2011-2014 with a couple first round exits
--I thought the team did well in 2015-2016 with ultimate losses against stacked Denver and New England teams
--He's struggled from 2017 to the current

I don't think anyone can argue about his regular season success. He doesn't seem like a good Xs and Os type of guy. I feel like he makes a lot of in-game, mind boggling decisions but I'm also biased and not observing what other coaches are doing. Perhaps they're making the same mistakes. Hey coaching an NFL team is probably not an easy job! What I do know is Tomlin's results speak for themselves. He somehow wins and has now shown that he can do it without having a hall of fame QB and after losing his best defensive player.

I'm not ready to get rid of him but I do potentially see him following the Andy Reid path in a couple years. I really don't believe this team will win a superbowl in the next 2 years and I think his time may run out. Hopefully if that happens, we end up with a Doug Pedersen/Nick Sirianni type coach as his replacement. Good coaches don't grow on trees these days.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Let's be honest, the 2000's / 2010's Steelers got royally F***ED by having to compete with Peyton and the Brady-led Patriots.

I'd agree if those were the teams that had consistently knocked the Steelers out of the playoffs. Aside from the win vs Arizona in his second year of coaching and the loss to the Packers, the playoff losses under Tomlin have mostly been huge disappointments and they've given up 45+ points in their last THREE playoff losses.

In 2007, they lost at home to David Garrard and the Jaguars
In 2011, it was Tebow and the Broncos
In 2014, it was a loss to the Ravens at home in Primtime
In 2015, it was the Broncos and their defense led by what was left of Manning
In 2016, it was in the AFCC vs Brady and the Pats
in 2017, they gave up 45 points to the Blake Bortles led Jags and lost at home
In 2020, they gave up 48 points to the Baker Mayfield led Browns and lost at home
In 2021, they gave up 45 points to the Chiefs

People can decide for themselves what that means.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Let's be honest, the 2000's / 2010's Steelers got royally F***ED by having to compete with Peyton and the Brady-led Patriots.

I'd agree if those were the teams that had consistently knocked the Steelers out of the playoffs. Aside from the win vs Arizona in his second year of coaching and the loss to the Packers, the playoff losses under Tomlin have mostly been huge disappointments and they've given up 45+ points in their last THREE playoff losses.

In 2007, they lost at home to David Garrard and the Jaguars
In 2011, it was Tebow and the Broncos
In 2014, it was a loss to the Ravens at home in Primtime
In 2015, it was the Broncos and their defense led by what was left of Manning
In 2016, it was in the AFCC vs Brady and the Pats
in 2017, they gave up 45 points to the Blake Bortles led Jags and lost at home
In 2020, they gave up 48 points to the Baker Mayfield led Browns and lost at home
In 2021, they gave up 45 points to the Chiefs

People can decide for themselves what that means.

In 2007, I believe the Steelers were home dogs? Regardless, that was a 4/5 matchup and Jacksonville had a very good team. 2011 was a horrible loss no doubt. 2014 may have been a home loss but at the time, I felt like the Ravens were as good or better than the Steelers on paper. In 2015, I thought the Steelers put up a valiant effort against the best D in football given all of the injuries on offense they were dealing with. The Steelers were actually the toughest out for the Broncos that year on the way to their super bowl. 2016 - it's the Patriots so we all knew what the outcome was going to be. 2017 was a bad loss - Tomlin was severely outcoached and Ben's Jekyll and Hyde performance that game didn't help. 2020 was meh - the Steelers were not a great team that year and Cleveland looked like the better team heading into the playoffs. I expected a loss. In 2021, they got walloped by a much better team.

I don't typically defend Tomlin but when I look back at these results individually, I only really see 2 (maybe 3) bad losses. Coaches can only do so much when the talent level on the field is inferior to their opponent's. One thing I will admit is that Tomlin might not have even a single playoff win when the team was expected to lose. To me, that means he hasn't outcoached anyone. That's more of a flag to me than his actual overall playoff record.

 

[Boston]

Let's be honest, the 2000's / 2010's Steelers got royally F***ED by having to compete with Peyton and the Brady-led Patriots. They represented the AFC in the vast majority of Super Bowls during those decades. People think the AFC is stacked now, but those 2 QBs had a strangle hold on the playoff bye year after year. If the Steelers were in the NFC during the last 20 years I think we have at least 1-2 more Super Bowls.

It's wasn't because of the Colts or Broncos coaches that Peyton-led teams were amazing, and it might not have been because of BB that the Pats were the dynasty they were. Peyton and Brady wrecked the AFC and we were one of their victims. Even if we didn't end up reaching the AFC Championship to play them, we missed out on byes and there's no guarantee we would have gotten past them if we did win the 1st game.

If nothing changes over the next 2 years, aka if we don't get a playoff win within 2 years, then yeah it's probably time to move on (excluding obvious circumstances, like making the playoffs at 14-3 but losing our QB to injury).

Could have just left it at Ben Roethlisberger was a level below Brady and Manning. Period. Nobody got screwed... they just had superior QBs.

Regarding the Patriots, they never went to the Super Bowl without having homefield locked up. During most of the BB/TB era they played in one of the weakest Divisions in the NFL. It felt like they went 6-0 or 5-1 in their Division every year. Smooth sailing for most of their regular seasons.

The Pats beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship games in 02 and 05 and KC in KC in 19...that means 1/2 of the Pats Super Bowl titles were won while winning the AFC Championship game on the road.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Let's be honest, the 2000's / 2010's Steelers got royally F***ED by having to compete with Peyton and the Brady-led Patriots. They represented the AFC in the vast majority of Super Bowls during those decades. People think the AFC is stacked now, but those 2 QBs had a strangle hold on the playoff bye year after year. If the Steelers were in the NFC during the last 20 years I think we have at least 1-2 more Super Bowls.

It's wasn't because of the Colts or Broncos coaches that Peyton-led teams were amazing, and it might not have been because of BB that the Pats were the dynasty they were. Peyton and Brady wrecked the AFC and we were one of their victims. Even if we didn't end up reaching the AFC Championship to play them, we missed out on byes and there's no guarantee we would have gotten past them if we did win the 1st game.

If nothing changes over the next 2 years, aka if we don't get a playoff win within 2 years, then yeah it's probably time to move on (excluding obvious circumstances, like making the playoffs at 14-3 but losing our QB to injury).

Could have just left it at Ben Roethlisberger was a level below Brady and Manning. Period. Nobody got screwed... they just had superior QBs.

Regarding the Patriots, they never went to the Super Bowl without having homefield locked up. During most of the BB/TB era they played in one of the weakest Divisions in the NFL. It felt like they went 6-0 or 5-1 in their Division every year. Smooth sailing for most of their regular seasons.

The Pats beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship games in 02 and 05 and KC in KC in 19...that means 1/2 of the Pats Super Bowl titles were won while winning the AFC Championship game on the road.

Yup that was a weird post lol

 

[travdogg]

Tomlin has had a mixed bag when it comes to his playoff career:

--He was successful from 2008-2010 with 2 superbowl appearances (and one win) in 3 years
--He struggled from 2011-2014 with a couple first round exits
--I thought the team did well in 2015-2016 with ultimate losses against stacked Denver and New England teams
--He's struggled from 2017 to the current

I don't think anyone can argue about his regular season success. He doesn't seem like a good Xs and Os type of guy. I feel like he makes a lot of in-game, mind boggling decisions but I'm also biased and not observing what other coaches are doing. Perhaps they're making the same mistakes. Hey coaching an NFL team is probably not an easy job! What I do know is Tomlin's results speak for themselves. He somehow wins and has now shown that he can do it without having a hall of fame QB and after losing his best defensive player.

I'm not ready to get rid of him but I do potentially see him following the Andy Reid path in a couple years. I really don't believe this team will win a superbowl in the next 2 years and I think his time may run out. Hopefully if that happens, we end up with a Doug Pedersen/Nick Sirianni type coach as his replacement. Good coaches don't grow on trees these days.

I'd feel very comfortable calling Tomlin a top-5 NFL HC.

Honestly, I thought the Steelers exceeded expectations this season, especially considering how much time Watt missed. They went 8-2 in the games he played in.

Also thought Pickett looked like the light clicked on down the stretch, and I am excited about his future. Still certainly some holes, but I feel better about the Steelers than I do Baltimore or Cleveland going forward, Bengals probably aren't going anywhere though.

 

[steelers1080]

Lots of people seem to put the playoff losses squarely on Tomlin, but in my memory they were more often on Ben's shoulders.

• 2007 loss to Jags - Big Ben had 3 costly INTs. The game started TD, Punt, Punt, INT, INT, Punt, INT. Ben had some 2nd half heroics to get it close, and then the game ended because a Big Ben Fumble when we were down 2.
• 2010 Super Bowl Loss - Ben had costly picks and the backbreaking Mendenhall fumble that lead to a Packers TD.
• 2011 Loss to Tebow - Big Ben throws a pick to the Broncos within FG range, game goes to OT and defense blows coverage and allows an 80 yard TD. Ben threw another pick that would have iced the game earlier if not for a defensive offsides penalty. The last drive we had the ball with 1:37 left and needed a FG to win. Ben had some nice passes but was sacked 3 times on the final drive eating up precious clock and yards. Also, Lebeau called the defense, so it's not on Tomlin that the defense couldn't stop Thomas all game.
• 2014 Loss to Ravens - We ended the game INT, INT, Fumble. The first INT was at the Pittsburgh 26 and gifted the Ravens a TD. The next INT was at the Baltimore 14 and ended up being 2 points for us because of a Safety, but down 30 - 15 we needed 7. The next drive Heath fumbled to ice the game, but down 13 it was already over. Our main issue this game was Big Ben getting sacked at the most inopportune times. Late in the down on 2nd or 3rd down he would get sacked for ~8-10 yards and kill drives. Still not really a coaching issue.
• 2015 Loss to Broncos - They were on their way to a SB win and we gave them their toughest matchup. Early in the game we went for it on 4th and 1 from the Denver 32, but I like that aggression. Jordan Berry had a 27 yard punt from our own 4 yard line. Denver basically caught the ball in FG range, gifted 3 pts. At the end of the 1st quarter Pitt was up 7-6. Later in the game we're up 13-12 and Fitz Toussaint fumbled at the Denver 34, almost in FG range. Denver proceeds to drive all the way down the field and score a TD and 2 pt conversion. The following drive we're down 7 with 2 min left and on 4th and 5 Big Ben gets sacked for -13 yards. Denver gets a FG after driving 3 yards making it a 2-score game. We get a FG with 24 seconds left but can't get the onside kick. Again, Big Ben gets sacked at the least opportune moment and a key turnover kills us by giving Denver an 11 pt swing.
• 2016 Loss to the Pats - The Pats were juggernauts that year. Neither team could rush, averaging like 2 yards per carry, but Brady threw 3 TDs to Ben's 1, and we had 2 turnovers to their 0. Leveon Bell got hurt early and that killed us. First and goal from the 1 and Deangelo Williams lost 1, then lost 3, and then incomplete settle for FG. Could have got it to 13 - 17 but instead 9 - 17. Drives stalled in the 2nd half due to incomplete passes or Eli Rogers fumbles and the game got out of reach because NE scored on most of their opportunities. Rogers fumble, turnover on Downs at the 2, and Ben INT on 3 consecutive drives. Down multiple scores, going for it at the NE 2 is the right call, nothing here that's Tomlin's fault.
• 2017 Loss to Jags - Our 2nd drive Ben throws a pick at the 13 yard line, Jags get a TD the next play. Next drive, 4th and 1 from the Jags 21 and we're down 2 TDs. Go for it with Leveon Bell and he loses 4 yards. 0 issue with going for it, wish it was a QB sneak, but as we all know now, Big Ben took that off the table. Jags score on their next drive, down 21 - 0. Big Ben was sacked and fumbled returned for a TD making it 28 - 7. Big Ben does his heroics to get us back in the game, but later we go for it again from the Jags 39 but Haley calls a deep pass to Juju that goes incomplete... we needed 1 yard. There's a reason this was Haley's last season with the Steelers. Jags score again, and Steelers score again, still 7 pt game. At this point teams basically trade scores back and forth and the game is out of reach. Again, lose the turnover differential and it lead directly to scores and taking pts away from the Steelers.
• 2020 Steelers Loss to Browns - The Steelers had 5 turnovers including the game starting with a bad snap recovered for a TD by the Browns.
• 2021 Loss to Chiefs - The Chiefs were way more talented and Ben was washed. Our game started 3 and out, 3 and out, 3 and out, 5 and out, 6 and out, 3 and out, 3 and out, Fumble. I don't think anyone thought we had a great shot to win, but our inept offense (a combo of Ben and Canada in my opinion) doomed us. This is the first loss where we won the turnover differential I believe.

Big Ben would often have heroics where he would lead amazing comebacks, but that leads people to forget what lead to those heroics and why they were necessary. For much of his career sacks, fumbles, and INTs were not uncommon. People look at the playoff record and go "Look what Tomlin has failed to do!" but that's just a surface level argument without looking at any of the details. Tomlin didn't throw picks, he didn't miss tackles, he didn't fumble the ball away, he didn't call long bombs on 4th and 1 (thanks, Haley), he didn't have terrible punts. Did he manage the clock poorly or miss challenges? Probably. But making key mistakes at key moments is what cost the Steelers, and more often than not the one making the mistake was Ben, not Tomlin.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Anytime Pittsburgh 'struggles' the talk about Tomlin starts.
Ridiculous.
Look at what he did this year.

Moves on from a HOF QB.
Gets handed a retread and a rookie to replace the HOFer with a so-so offensive line after getting rid of Ju-Ju and then dealt away Claypool going with a rookie wideout and a #1 WR who has a lot of dropped passes.
The TE is solid, and the RB is decent but what did anyone expect of this offense?
The highest paid defense in the league is stacked and played well.

Team has a winning record and barely misses playoffs by the skin of their teeth after a poor start but instead of looking at the improvement of Pickett over the course of the year and projecting overall better play from the rookie WR we see the same Tomlin takes.

I don't know how 'good' Pickett is or what he will develop into, however he improved.

Look back one year where a bill was due at quarterback. The Steelers hadn't addressed QB and were looking into the void with a hope-and-a-prayer.

Tomlin pulled off a miracle, he isn't going anywhere.

 

[crushedspirit]

Tomlin doesn't even sniff all those playoff appearances without Ben pulling his magic act during those regular seasons. So to place the blame mostly on Ben for the failures is being very harsh. Is he a part of the playoff failures, yes, but also the D bent over easily, and the team just looked totally unprepared and predictable.

2017, Jags take opening kickoff and march down for 7. Tempo is set as the Steeler D is a turnstile. Ben makes a bad pass, then Fournette breaks for 18 and a TD, D nowhere to be found. After Bell gets stuffed, Jags march 75 yards against the turnstile D and another TD. Ben brought them back to striking distance, only to see the D bend over repeatedly. Fournette finished over 100 yards and 3 TDs against the 5th ranked D vs yards.

2020, A comedy of errors on offense for sure, but that D couldn't stop a College team that day, let alone the Browns. Baker finished with 263 yds and 3 TDs against the 3rd ranked D vs yards. Browns drove at will in that first half with 3 scoring drives of 65 yds like a walk in the park.

2021, An embarrassment vs a team they couldn't beat on their best day even if they tried 10 times in a row.

What is Tomlin's job if it's up the players? Is he not in charge of ensuring the team is prepared in all phases, and a proper game plan installed? What I saw was a team totally unprepared and predictable in 2017 and 2020. In 2021 they never should have showed up.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

And Pickett showed lots of good things down the stretch. He still has things to learn and improve, but I’m encouraged

I don't get this narrative. I think he looks terrible. He skys balls constantly. He is bailed out by guys making crazy catches a lot. The terrible redzone play is also on Canada, but really does reflect on Pickett. He finished the season with 6 TD passes. That is a good game for a top QB

I didn’t get to watch today’s game but he did not look horrible against Baltimore. I’m not saying he’s going to be a star but he showed enough to give me some optimism for next year. He is still just a rookie after all.

Until the final drive he was 10 for 21 for 104 yards and no TD's

He can improve on accuracy IMO. He showed some intangibles by coming up clutch when needed. I feel it’s still hard to evaluate him because the play calling was so horrendous.

I do think Canada has complicated his evaluation. Clutch is mostly nonsense.

 

[Godsbrother]

Big Ben would often have heroics where he would lead amazing comebacks, but that leads people to forget what lead to those heroics and why they were necessary. For much of his career sacks, fumbles, and INTs were not uncommon. People look at the playoff record and go "Look what Tomlin has failed to do!" but that's just a surface level argument without looking at any of the details. Tomlin didn't throw picks, he didn't miss tackles, he didn't fumble the ball away, he didn't call long bombs on 4th and 1 (thanks, Haley), he didn't have terrible punts. Did he manage the clock poorly or miss challenges? Probably. But making key mistakes at key moments is what cost the Steelers, and more often than not the one making the mistake was Ben, not Tomlin.

I love Ben and he did some great things, both in the regular season and playoffs, but he had some real duds too. Not all of the interceptions and turnovers were his fault and some of them were a result of being under duress and/or trying to make something out of nothing.

What I find funny is how so many Tomlin detractors will use the "despite having a HOF QB" line without acknowledging that some of those losses were at least partly a result of less than stellar play from that HoF QB. Also so many people talk about the Patriot's post season successes being due to the Bill Belichik/Tom Brady combo while placing the Steeler's post season losses squarely on Mike Tomlin.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

There are a lot of unrealistic expectations flying around. The average team will win a superbowl every 32 seasons

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I really hope Flores doesn't go to the Browns. I would hope he would stay out of the division if he has multiple options for just a DC type role. But I wonder if he still is a HC candidate next year if he just stays with us as a ILB coach?

 

[crushedspirit]

Nobody mention SB except for the Tomlin defenders.

 

[crushedspirit]

Big Ben would often have heroics where he would lead amazing comebacks, but that leads people to forget what lead to those heroics and why they were necessary. For much of his career sacks, fumbles, and INTs were not uncommon. People look at the playoff record and go "Look what Tomlin has failed to do!" but that's just a surface level argument without looking at any of the details. Tomlin didn't throw picks, he didn't miss tackles, he didn't fumble the ball away, he didn't call long bombs on 4th and 1 (thanks, Haley), he didn't have terrible punts. Did he manage the clock poorly or miss challenges? Probably. But making key mistakes at key moments is what cost the Steelers, and more often than not the one making the mistake was Ben, not Tomlin.

I love Ben and he did some great things, both in the regular season and playoffs, but he had some real duds too. Not all of the interceptions and turnovers were his fault and some of them were a result of being under duress and/or trying to make something out of nothing.

What I find funny is how so many Tomlin detractors will use the "despite having a HOF QB" line without acknowledging that some of those losses were at least partly a result of less than stellar play from that HoF QB. Also so many people talk about the Patriot's post season successes being due to the Bill Belichik/Tom Brady combo while placing the Steeler's post season losses squarely on Mike Tomlin.

You are correct. He played some dud games that played a part in some playoff losses, but ask yourself if they even get there without him most of the time? His big play ability also came with risks, which payed off more often than not. Can't have one without the other. Nobody said Tomlin was the only reason, but he is the coach, and his job is to game plan and have his team prepared come playoff time. That hasn't happened since 2016. If you don't agree, and blame it all on Ben and the players, then that's cool. I guess coaches can be cardboard cutouts on the sideline in the future since they're not needed for anything but witty blurbs and interviews.

In 2008 Ben had 5 game winning drives, and saved the biggest one for the SB. He missed 1 game in 2009 and they lost it, which cost them a playoff chance. The 2011 loss to Tebow is one for the ages LOL. Fast track to last season and they don't even sniff the 7th seed without Ben's 7 game winning drives, 6 of them while trailing in the 4th Q. He is a HOF QB that came with some bad play sometimes, but he usually put them in a position to even try a playoff run many times over.

 

[Steelers4Life]

There are a lot of unrealistic expectations flying around. The average team will win a superbowl every 32 seasons

Well, sure, if you assume every team has equal talent and equal coaching. Of course, that's not the case.

The case against Tomlin isn't based on 2022. It's based on his body of work, especially as it started to become his team.

If someone wants to make the case that the Steelers have one of the best coaches in the NFL with a perenially strong defense and an offense that's been led by a future 1st ballot HOF QB, then the expectations should be far higher. FAR higher than 3 playoff wins in 12 years after his inherited team started fading away.

A lot of Steelers fans have lowered their expectations from what they used to be, because they've accepted that the team will show up flat and lose a few games every year because of bad coaching decisions or failed strategy. They kind of accept that Tomlin isn't a good gameday coach or a strong strategic thinker, but they like that he has an canned answer and funny catch phrases, and his teams are always just good enough to win more than they lose but not good enough to do anything against playoff competition.

If that's the goal, he's great at it. And I think they drafted the perfect QB to be exactly that... good enough to remain in the middle of the pack and playoff hunt, but not good enough to win with unless everything else is perfect.

 

[steelers1080]

I agree that if we didn't have Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins, and that there's always multiple facets to a win and a loss. My main point, by over emphasizing Ben's flaws, was to just point out that it's not squarely on Tomlin's shoulders, when that's what the anti-Tomlin crowd seems to imply.

I do think that coaching stagnation is real, but I also think that the amount of turnover this team saw from last year to this year, and will see over the next 2 years, will be enough of a shakeup. If the team doesn't get a playoff win in the next 2 years, I think that Tomlin will be on the hot seat.

 

[steelers1080]

Hopefully Flores doesn't take the Browns DC job, it would be much better for us if he got a HC job somewhere. Two 3rds better.

 

[Godsbrother]

I agree that if we didn't have Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins, and that there's always multiple facets to a win and a loss. My main point, by over emphasizing Ben's flaws, was to just point out that it's not squarely on Tomlin's shoulders, when that's what the anti-Tomlin crowd seems to imply.

I do think that coaching stagnation is real, but I also think that the amount of turnover this team saw from last year to this year, and will see over the next 2 years, will be enough of a shakeup. If the team doesn't get a playoff win in the next 2 years, I think that Tomlin will be on the hot seat.

I agree without Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins but Tomlin was responsible for a large number of wins too. I don't buy into the theory that when we won it was because of Ben and Tomlin was just along for the ride. It is BS

And I also don't get this nonsense that Steelers fans have lowered expectations. Aside from maybe Irish Eyes, most fans I know tend to over-estimate rather than under-estimate the team. We expect the Steelers to win every game and compete for the AFC Championship every season and when they don't we start the blame game. It's Tomlin and Canada now but Colbert, Arians, Todd Haley and others have all taken the heat. I am old enough to remember fans calling for the heads of Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll too.

That's part of being a fan, I get it, but if some of us believe that Tomlin did a good job this season it doesn't mean we're okay with 9-8. We aren't. And like you say, if Tomlin can't turn it around in 2 years I am fine giving him the boot.

 

[steelers1080]

I agree that if we didn't have Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins, and that there's always multiple facets to a win and a loss. My main point, by over emphasizing Ben's flaws, was to just point out that it's not squarely on Tomlin's shoulders, when that's what the anti-Tomlin crowd seems to imply.

I do think that coaching stagnation is real, but I also think that the amount of turnover this team saw from last year to this year, and will see over the next 2 years, will be enough of a shakeup. If the team doesn't get a playoff win in the next 2 years, I think that Tomlin will be on the hot seat.

I agree without Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins but Tomlin was responsible for a large number of wins too. I don't buy into the theory that when we won it was because of Ben and Tomlin was just along for the ride. It is BS

And I also don't get this nonsense that Steelers fans have lowered expectations. Aside from maybe Irish Eyes, most fans I know tend to over-estimate rather than under-estimate the team. We expect the Steelers to win every game and compete for the AFC Championship every season and when they don't we start the blame game. It's Tomlin and Canada now but Colbert, Arians, Todd Haley and others have all taken the heat. I am old enough to remember fans calling for the heads of Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll too.

That's part of being a fan, I get it, but if some of us believe that Tomlin did a good job this season it doesn't mean we're okay with 9-8. We aren't. And like you say, if Tomlin can't turn it around in 2 years I am fine giving him the boot.

It's the old adage that everything becomes normal. The nicest house in the world is just a house to the person that lives there. Steelers fans have gotten used to winning in the regular season and competing every year, so they expect the next step which is playoff wins. If you ask 1/2 the league they would love to be in our shoes right now. The other half is in the playoffs, but would almost certainly rather have what we've had the last 20 years than be in the playoffs this year. There are exceptions, but almost all of the teams that wouldn't rather be us have locked down Franchise QBs.

I think a good comparison is the Ravens. If they somehow lose Lamar and have to start Huntley or Carr or something next year, they could easily be a team with a losing record. I have more faith that with similar talent, Tomlin would have a better year than Harbaugh. Harbaugh only has a SB because Flacco played out of his mind in the playoffs that year, and the Broncos CB mis-timed his jump.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I agree that if we didn't have Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins, and that there's always multiple facets to a win and a loss. My main point, by over emphasizing Ben's flaws, was to just point out that it's not squarely on Tomlin's shoulders, when that's what the anti-Tomlin crowd seems to imply.

I do think that coaching stagnation is real, but I also think that the amount of turnover this team saw from last year to this year, and will see over the next 2 years, will be enough of a shakeup. If the team doesn't get a playoff win in the next 2 years, I think that Tomlin will be on the hot seat.

I agree without Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins but Tomlin was responsible for a large number of wins too. I don't buy into the theory that when we won it was because of Ben and Tomlin was just along for the ride. It is BS

And I also don't get this nonsense that Steelers fans have lowered expectations. Aside from maybe Irish Eyes, most fans I know tend to over-estimate rather than under-estimate the team. We expect the Steelers to win every game and compete for the AFC Championship every season and when they don't we start the blame game. It's Tomlin and Canada now but Colbert, Arians, Todd Haley and others have all taken the heat. I am old enough to remember fans calling for the heads of Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll too.

That's part of being a fan, I get it, but if some of us believe that Tomlin did a good job this season it doesn't mean we're okay with 9-8. We aren't. And like you say, if Tomlin can't turn it around in 2 years I am fine giving him the boot.

No one blames Tomlin for everything and even his detractors like me say he's a fine coach and a guy a lot of player respect and respond to. But to me, that's all he is. A lot of coaches could have walked into the same situation and had just as much success or more. He isn't special, he isn't unique, and he isn't good at a lot of the basic functions you'd expect from the head coach. I want my coach to be strategic. To know how to manage the clock. To understand how to make in-game adjustments and adjust on the fly. The cliches and coachspeak are great for the media, but it doesn't solve issues on the field.

What he gets the blame for is a consistently undisciplined culture. Often playing down to competition and losing winnable games that cost (at minimum) playoff seeding. Is stability nice? Sure it is. Expecting and hoping to win as a fanbase is great, but in my opinion, the fanbase has been way too accepting of the lack of postseason success over the past 12 years.

Blame Blame Arians, blame Fichtner, blame Haley, blame Canada.... those are the 4 OC's he's hired. Arians was a success, but a lot of the blame falls on Tomlin too, because he's consistently shown over his entire tenure that he's not good at choosing strong, innovative offensive assistants. LeBeau leading the defense and then keeping it in house with Butler was easy.

If they don't turn it around in 2 years and Tomlin is canned or on the hot seat, fantastic. The problem to me is that he should've already been on the hot seat well before now based on his teams' performance.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Hopefully Flores doesn't take the Browns DC job, it would be much better for us if he got a HC job somewhere. Two 3rds better.

Next year though. He needs to be with us for two seasons before we are entitled to compensation.

 

[crushedspirit]

Cards have requested permission to interview Flores for their HC spot.

 

[belljr]

I agree that if we didn't have Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins, and that there's always multiple facets to a win and a loss. My main point, by over emphasizing Ben's flaws, was to just point out that it's not squarely on Tomlin's shoulders, when that's what the anti-Tomlin crowd seems to imply.

I do think that coaching stagnation is real, but I also think that the amount of turnover this team saw from last year to this year, and will see over the next 2 years, will be enough of a shakeup. If the team doesn't get a playoff win in the next 2 years, I think that Tomlin will be on the hot seat.

I agree without Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins but Tomlin was responsible for a large number of wins too. I don't buy into the theory that when we won it was because of Ben and Tomlin was just along for the ride. It is BS

And I also don't get this nonsense that Steelers fans have lowered expectations. Aside from maybe Irish Eyes, most fans I know tend to over-estimate rather than under-estimate the team. We expect the Steelers to win every game and compete for the AFC Championship every season and when they don't we start the blame game. It's Tomlin and Canada now but Colbert, Arians, Todd Haley and others have all taken the heat. I am old enough to remember fans calling for the heads of Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll too.

That's part of being a fan, I get it, but if some of us believe that Tomlin did a good job this season it doesn't mean we're okay with 9-8. We aren't. And like you say, if Tomlin can't turn it around in 2 years I am fine giving him the boot.

No one blames Tomlin for everything and even his detractors like me say he's a fine coach and a guy a lot of player respect and respond to. But to me, that's all he is. A lot of coaches could have walked into the same situation and had just as much success or more. He isn't special, he isn't unique, and he isn't good at a lot of the basic functions you'd expect from the head coach. I want my coach to be strategic. To know how to manage the clock. To understand how to make in-game adjustments and adjust on the fly. The cliches and coachspeak are great for the media, but it doesn't solve issues on the field.

What he gets the blame for is a consistently undisciplined culture. Often playing down to competition and losing winnable games that cost (at minimum) playoff seeding. Is stability nice? Sure it is. Expecting and hoping to win as a fanbase is great, but in my opinion, the fanbase has been way too accepting of the lack of postseason success over the past 12 years.

Blame Blame Arians, blame Fichtner, blame Haley, blame Canada.... those are the 4 OC's he's hired. Arians was a success, but a lot of the blame falls on Tomlin too, because he's consistently shown over his entire tenure that he's not good at choosing strong, innovative offensive assistants. LeBeau leading the defense and then keeping it in house with Butler was easy.

If they don't turn it around in 2 years and Tomlin is canned or on the hot seat, fantastic. The problem to me is that he should've already been on the hot seat well before now based on his teams' performance.

This is exactly what people said and still say about Andy Reid.... Especially in game coaching. Its one reason he was let go in Philly

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

There are a lot of unrealistic expectations flying around. The average team will win a superbowl every 32 seasons

Well, sure, if you assume every team has equal talent and equal coaching. Of course, that's not the case.

The case against Tomlin isn't based on 2022. It's based on his body of work, especially as it started to become his team.

If someone wants to make the case that the Steelers have one of the best coaches in the NFL with a perenially strong defense and an offense that's been led by a future 1st ballot HOF QB, then the expectations should be far higher. FAR higher than 3 playoff wins in 12 years after his inherited team started fading away.

A lot of Steelers fans have lowered their expectations from what they used to be, because they've accepted that the team will show up flat and lose a few games every year because of bad coaching decisions or failed strategy. They kind of accept that Tomlin isn't a good gameday coach or a strong strategic thinker, but they like that he has an canned answer and funny catch phrases, and his teams are always just good enough to win more than they lose but not good enough to do anything against playoff competition.

If that's the goal, he's great at it. And I think they drafted the perfect QB to be exactly that... good enough to remain in the middle of the pack and playoff hunt, but not good enough to win with unless everything else is perfect.

You are also way overrating the talent on Pittsburgh's roster. This season was a really bad roster. Most picked the Steelers to be in last and draft in the top 10 preseason. They haven't had a roster that belongs in Superbowl contention since 2017. Honestly, it is a miracle any of the teams since 2018 have been in contention. 2019 didn't have a QB, and the roster was aging fast after that. There have been some drafts that have contributed to this, but mostly it is a product of the NFL's system. It is supposed to turn over who is at the top. A great QB can keep you there, but Ben hasn't been a great QB since 2018, maybe even 2017.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I agree that if we didn't have Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins, and that there's always multiple facets to a win and a loss. My main point, by over emphasizing Ben's flaws, was to just point out that it's not squarely on Tomlin's shoulders, when that's what the anti-Tomlin crowd seems to imply.

I do think that coaching stagnation is real, but I also think that the amount of turnover this team saw from last year to this year, and will see over the next 2 years, will be enough of a shakeup. If the team doesn't get a playoff win in the next 2 years, I think that Tomlin will be on the hot seat.

I agree without Ben we wouldn't have nearly as many wins but Tomlin was responsible for a large number of wins too. I don't buy into the theory that when we won it was because of Ben and Tomlin was just along for the ride. It is BS

And I also don't get this nonsense that Steelers fans have lowered expectations. Aside from maybe Irish Eyes, most fans I know tend to over-estimate rather than under-estimate the team. We expect the Steelers to win every game and compete for the AFC Championship every season and when they don't we start the blame game. It's Tomlin and Canada now but Colbert, Arians, Todd Haley and others have all taken the heat. I am old enough to remember fans calling for the heads of Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll too.

That's part of being a fan, I get it, but if some of us believe that Tomlin did a good job this season it doesn't mean we're okay with 9-8. We aren't. And like you say, if Tomlin can't turn it around in 2 years I am fine giving him the boot.

No one blames Tomlin for everything and even his detractors like me say he's a fine coach and a guy a lot of player respect and respond to. But to me, that's all he is. A lot of coaches could have walked into the same situation and had just as much success or more. He isn't special, he isn't unique, and he isn't good at a lot of the basic functions you'd expect from the head coach. I want my coach to be strategic. To know how to manage the clock. To understand how to make in-game adjustments and adjust on the fly. The cliches and coachspeak are great for the media, but it doesn't solve issues on the field.

What he gets the blame for is a consistently undisciplined culture. Often playing down to competition and losing winnable games that cost (at minimum) playoff seeding. Is stability nice? Sure it is. Expecting and hoping to win as a fanbase is great, but in my opinion, the fanbase has been way too accepting of the lack of postseason success over the past 12 years.

Blame Blame Arians, blame Fichtner, blame Haley, blame Canada.... those are the 4 OC's he's hired. Arians was a success, but a lot of the blame falls on Tomlin too, because he's consistently shown over his entire tenure that he's not good at choosing strong, innovative offensive assistants. LeBeau leading the defense and then keeping it in house with Butler was easy.

If they don't turn it around in 2 years and Tomlin is canned or on the hot seat, fantastic. The problem to me is that he should've already been on the hot seat well before now based on his teams' performance.

This is exactly what people said and still say about Andy Reid.... Especially in game coaching. Its one reason he was let go in Philly

What I know about Reid is that he adapts and surrounds himself with innovate assistants.

Tomlin doesn't. Never has.

 

[Steelers4Life]

There are a lot of unrealistic expectations flying around. The average team will win a superbowl every 32 seasons

Well, sure, if you assume every team has equal talent and equal coaching. Of course, that's not the case.

The case against Tomlin isn't based on 2022. It's based on his body of work, especially as it started to become his team.

If someone wants to make the case that the Steelers have one of the best coaches in the NFL with a perenially strong defense and an offense that's been led by a future 1st ballot HOF QB, then the expectations should be far higher. FAR higher than 3 playoff wins in 12 years after his inherited team started fading away.

A lot of Steelers fans have lowered their expectations from what they used to be, because they've accepted that the team will show up flat and lose a few games every year because of bad coaching decisions or failed strategy. They kind of accept that Tomlin isn't a good gameday coach or a strong strategic thinker, but they like that he has an canned answer and funny catch phrases, and his teams are always just good enough to win more than they lose but not good enough to do anything against playoff competition.

If that's the goal, he's great at it. And I think they drafted the perfect QB to be exactly that... good enough to remain in the middle of the pack and playoff hunt, but not good enough to win with unless everything else is perfect.

You are also way overrating the talent on Pittsburgh's roster. This season was a really bad roster. Most picked the Steelers to be in last and draft in the top 10 preseason. They haven't had a roster that belongs in Superbowl contention since 2017. Honestly, it is a miracle any of the teams since 2018 have been in contention. 2019 didn't have a QB, and the roster was aging fast after that. There have been some drafts that have contributed to this, but mostly it is a product of the NFL's system. It is supposed to turn over who is at the top. A great QB can keep you there, but Ben hasn't been a great QB since 2018, maybe even 2017.

I don't think I'm overrating anything about what they've been and haven't been. And my opinion(s) aren't based on 2022.

It's based on everything he's done and not done since 2011, not just since 2017. It's been mediocre at best since they lost to Tebow. I get that there are always reasons beyond just the coach, but for a team to play in 3 playoff games in 6 years and lose all 3 of them (2 as home favorites) while giving up 45+ points in all 3? That's indicative of a coach who didn't have his team ready to play and elevate themselves in the playoffs. I think Tomlin is a good enough regular season coach with lots of unnecessary ups and downs. But I think he's just overmatched come playoff time when small decisions and strategic decisions can end the season.

Ben was never the same after his elbow injury, but they've had talent - maybe not Super Bowl winning talent, but certainly enough talent to not be on the longest streak in Steelers Super Bowl era history without a playoff win. Not even the 1980's teams led by Malone and Brister went this long.

 

[crushedspirit]

Actually there is a correlation between some below average drafts and their not so elite roster. It's Tomlin and Colbert to share that blame. We all know the roster he inherited, and it's been a decline ever since for the most part.

Yes 2019 was Tomlin's first test without Ben, and they missed out, but they still had a line anchored by stars Pouncey and DeCastro. Defense had Heyward, Minkah, TJ, and Haden, all good enough for the 5th ranked D, with 3 of them making All-Pro that year. That's not a bad roster at all in key parts, especially on D. Problem was no Ben, no playoffs.

2020, Ben throws 33 TDs, and leads them to 4 comeback wins in the 4th Q. Defense finished 3rd, and 2 of them make All-Pro. Not a miracle led by Ben, the D, and a capable set of WRs and RB.

2021, If not for an aging Ben's 7 4th Q comebacks, the team doesn't sniff that coveted 44 percentile 7th seed finish. Defense was a joke for most of the season.

This season I didn't expect much due to a rookie QB and tough early season schedule.. They have maintained their purgatory status, and coach MT was good enough to keep them out of the lowest tier. The roster on both sides of the ball is a concern going into next season. Aging vets, lack of depth, a questionable oline, and a D that needs guys who can cover when the pass rush doesn't get there. Also need an alpha-type WR in my opinion to help Kenny.

 

[Godsbrother]

While I enjoyed the Tomlin discussion I think it has run it's course for me. On to 2023...

 

[pghrob]

While I enjoyed the Tomlin discussion I think it has run it's course for me. On to 2023...

On to 2023 it shall be...

...Any thought on ILB Mark Robinson?

 

[Steelers4Life]

Watching what the 49ers can do with a 7th round QB by running imaginative routes and moving the QB around to make plays makes me really happy that it seems like Mike Tomlin isn't going to fire Matt Canada.

Can't wait to see what's in store for the offense in 2023 lol

 

[steelers1080]

While I enjoyed the Tomlin discussion I think it has run it's course for me. On to 2023...

On to 2023 it shall be...

...Any thought on ILB Mark Robinson?

Lots of potential but raw. He seemed to be out of position sometimes in that final game, but he was running downhill and putting himself in good positions more often than not. I think with a full offseason/preseason he could end up being our starter, and he has a high ceiling, but he's only been a LB for ~2 years so he's going to need experience. He had one blitz where it appeared he left his assignment to rush the QB when he saw an opportunity, and left his area of the field open for a screen. He'll learn better when to take those chances.

Definitely worth a 7th round pick.

 

[Godsbrother]

While I enjoyed the Tomlin discussion I think it has run it's course for me. On to 2023...

On to 2023 it shall be...

...Any thought on ILB Mark Robinson?

Lots of potential but raw. He seemed to be out of position sometimes in that final game, but he was running downhill and putting himself in good positions more often than not. I think with a full offseason/preseason he could end up being our starter, and he has a high ceiling, but he's only been a LB for ~2 years so he's going to need experience. He had one blitz where it appeared he left his assignment to rush the QB when he saw an opportunity, and left his area of the field open for a screen. He'll learn better when to take those chances.

Definitely worth a 7th round pick.

Agreed. Definitely has a potential to be a starter, looked real good in camp, but he's not ready for primetime yet.

 

[steelers1080]

Lamar Jackson apparently didn't travel with the Ravens to Cincy for the game. I know we've done pretty well against him, but I'd be pretty happy if the Ravens moved on from him and were stuck with mediocre QBs for a few years. Would be nice if we had an easier path to AFC North wins.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

FWIW, my friend who had given me the draft information (which proved accurate) told me they are not firing Canada. He told me that two days after the final game.

 

[steelers1080]

FWIW, my friend who had given me the draft information (which proved accurate) told me they are not firing Canada. He told me that two days after the final game.

I think that once a week passed after the final game the odds of him staying went up to ~90%. It's unfortunate because he's not good at his job. I'm thoroughly convinced that any success we have will be in spite of him, not because of him.

We might do better next year than this year, but I think he definitely limits the Steelers upside, and if he's kept and fails again, Omar should have 100% autonomy to make the next OC pick. If they promote from within for a 3rd time in a row, I think we'll all just lose hope.

 

[steelers1080]

FWIW, my friend who had given me the draft information (which proved accurate) told me they are not firing Canada. He told me that two days after the final game.

I think that once a week passed after the final game the odds of him staying went up to ~90%. It's unfortunate because he's not good at his job. I'm thoroughly convinced that any success we have will be in spite of him, not because of him.

We might do better next year than this year, but I think he definitely limits the Steelers upside, and if he's kept and fails again, Omar should have 100% autonomy to make the next OC pick. If they promote from within for a 3rd time in a row, I think we'll all just lose hope.

The guy I want us to hire is Bobby Slowik, the 49ers passing game coordinator. They can't interview him yet anyways, but I'm still holding out hope we fire Canada and hire him.

 

[pghrob]

I am excited to see what Andy Weidl brings this coming draft season. The Eagles seemed to make draft related trades while he was serving their front office.

 

[crushedspirit]

Lamar Jackson apparently didn't travel with the Ravens to Cincy for the game. I know we've done pretty well against him, but I'd be pretty happy if the Ravens moved on from him and were stuck with mediocre QBs for a few years. Would be nice if we had an easier path to AFC North wins.

I would like to see them duplicate the Flacco error though. Would ne nice if Lamar eats into all their cap space.

 

[crushedspirit]

I am excited to see what Andy Weidl brings this coming draft season. The Eagles seemed to make draft related trades while he was serving their front office.

Weidl and Khan need to help hit some nice ones in this draft. Andy brings a good track record over, so there's hope.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I would like to see them duplicate the Flacco error though. Would ne nice if Lamar eats into all their cap space.

Seems likely they'll be doing it for at least a year, to me at least. Can't imagine they won't tag him, and I can't see a ton of teams lining up to pay the tag/plus pick to acquire him when they do. His style of play is going to catch up with him at some point, and teams get that.

Actually, he's already on a couple/three year swing of missing time, isn't he?

 

[Godsbrother]

I would like to see them duplicate the Flacco error though. Would ne nice if Lamar eats into all their cap space.

Seems likely they'll be doing it for at least a year, to me at least. Can't imagine they won't tag him, and I can't see a ton of teams lining up to pay the tag/plus pick to acquire him when they do. His style of play is going to catch up with him at some point, and teams get that.

Actually, he's already on a couple/three year swing of missing time, isn't he?

Yes and I think his play style HAS caught up with him. At some point I think Lamar is going to need to become more of a passer and less of a runner and I'm not convinced he is up to it.

I'm with crushed. While Lamar is clearly a much better player than Huntley or anyone else they might get in FA, signing him to a long-term deal with most of it guaranteed is a pretty big risk. I'm betting the Ravens are smart enough to realize that and will probably franchise him in 2023 and prepare to move on after that.

 

[steelers1080]

I would like to see them duplicate the Flacco error though. Would ne nice if Lamar eats into all their cap space.

Seems likely they'll be doing it for at least a year, to me at least. Can't imagine they won't tag him, and I can't see a ton of teams lining up to pay the tag/plus pick to acquire him when they do. His style of play is going to catch up with him at some point, and teams get that.

Actually, he's already on a couple/three year swing of missing time, isn't he?

Yes and I think his play style HAS caught up with him. At some point I think Lamar is going to need to become more of a passer and less of a runner and I'm not convinced he is up to it.

I'm with crushed. While Lamar is clearly a much better player than Huntley or anyone else they might get in FA, signing him to a long-term deal with most of it guaranteed is a pretty big risk. I'm betting the Ravens are smart enough to realize that and will probably franchise him in 2023 and prepare to move on after that.

True, it could/most likely would hamstring them for a few years, but if he happened to stay healthy it also gives them a chance to contend.

I do think that in 2-3 years he'll be mostly done.

 

[steelers1080]

I am excited to see what Andy Weidl brings this coming draft season. The Eagles seemed to make draft related trades while he was serving their front office.

Weidl and Khan need to help hit some nice ones in this draft. Andy brings a good track record over, so there's hope.

I mean, I think they did pretty well this past draft. I didn't want Pickett over some of the other options, but I really wanted Davis and Hamilton, and both were gone by our pick. Pickett, Pickens, Leal, Heyward all looking like good picks. Calvin Austin looked good in camp and preseason before the injury, he could be a steal next year if he can get right. If he can return kicks too, this draft will have been very successful.

Now we just need to lock down OT, OG, WR, ILB, DT, NT, CB, S. No big deal...
I think we should be able to get at least 3-4 players out of the draft that make a difference, and then hopefully some FAs / Re-signings work out. I think they only fix one of the OL positions through the draft early, maybe a late Guard pick to compete with Dotson, and cut bait on Green. I'm hopeful for Austin coming back, but still think WR is an early need. Depending on BPA I think the 3 first picks are some combo of OL/WR/CB/DL, not a hot take, but makes a lot of sense. ILB could be in play if a player falls, but I'm betting it's Jack, Robinson, and Spillane next year, for better or worse.

 

[crushedspirit]

Let's build an oline to pave the way please, and get Pickett an alpha WR.

Franchise was always led by an all pro C, would be nice to have another Webster, Dawson, or Hartings anchoring this line. Need better bookends as well, especially at LT.

 

[steelers1080]

Noooo, Flores emerging as a favorite for the Cards HC job. 1 more year and we'd have gotten a pair of 3rd rounders.

 

[Godsbrother]

Noooo, Flores emerging as a favorite for the Cards HC job. 1 more year and we'd have gotten a pair of 3rd rounders.

Yeah. We kind of knew he was only here for a cup of coffee...