2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (2 Viewers)

[steelers1080]

I think that the Bears might be willing to move down ~5-8 spots since that's their second pick. We might be able to leap frog some teams for a QB if the front office falls in love, but I think the only target would be Daniels. Only Williams, Maye, and Daniels are worth a 1st imo at this point.

That said, they'd need to get Art II to buy in.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I see almost no chance that the team moves on from Pickett after 2 years when they already took the step of firing the offensive coordinator. He should never have been drafted there in the first place, but I can't see them giving up on him...

... unless Tomlin is gone and a new coach wants to find his own QB to lead his team. Again, I think that's wishful thinking and I fully expect Tomlin to get an undeserved but short extension to see if he can turn things around.

Everything will hinge on what they do at OC and DC., but I refuse to get my hopes up that the Steelers move on from Tomlin OR Pickett. I'll just be pleasantly surprised if they do.

 

[steelers1080]

Per the Rich Eisen show he discussed Tomlin's coaching with TJ Watt and got some semi-clear answers. Essentially it sounds like Tomlin's coaching style is to lead you to improvement, but doesn't hold your hand. He inspires players to improve but treats them like adults. TJ Watt said basically "I love Tomlin's style, but I don't know why it doesn't work on some of our other (younger) players."

It feels like the methods Tomlin uses resonate with "old-school" players or ones that have a deep love of the game/drive to get better, but doesn't engage younger players with different mindsets.

If they keep Tomlin, they have to do what the Pats did (successfully for many years, now not so much) and get players that fit that Steelers mentality that existed ~10+ years ago. Players who feel like Steelers and have a drive to be the best they can be. AB might have been nuts and a diva, but at least he honed his craft incessantly and worked to be the best WR in the NFL. Bell on the other hand did not have that drive to be the best and focus on football.

It feels obvious which players have that drive and mindset that resonates with Tomlin, because those players seem to do the best in our system. When I think of that old school Steelers style the players that fit are those like Watt, Heyward, Minkah, Highsmith, Najee and Warren. It feels like some of the rookies like Broderick Jones, Nick Herbig, Keanu Benton, and Joey Porter Jr also fit that mindset.

Hopefully, even if we get a new coach, the Steelers will continue to find a middle-ground between talent and mindset. I think we did a great job of that in the last draft, but we'll see.

Would not be shocked to see both Pickens and Diontae traded this offseason, but I'd rather keep Pickens and find an OC who can keep him engaged (if that's possible).

 

[Steelers4Life]

Per the Rich Eisen show he discussed Tomlin's coaching with TJ Watt and got some semi-clear answers. Essentially it sounds like Tomlin's coaching style is to lead you to improvement, but doesn't hold your hand. He inspires players to improve but treats them like adults. TJ Watt said basically "I love Tomlin's style, but I don't know why it doesn't work on some of our other (younger) players."

It feels like the methods Tomlin uses resonate with "old-school" players or ones that have a deep love of the game/drive to get better, but doesn't engage younger players with different mindsets.

If they keep Tomlin, they have to do what the Pats did (successfully for many years, now not so much) and get players that fit that Steelers mentality that existed ~10+ years ago. Players who feel like Steelers and have a drive to be the best they can be. AB might have been nuts and a diva, but at least he honed his craft incessantly and worked to be the best WR in the NFL. Bell on the other hand did not have that drive to be the best and focus on football.

It feels obvious which players have that drive and mindset that resonates with Tomlin, because those players seem to do the best in our system. When I think of that old school Steelers style the players that fit are those like Watt, Heyward, Minkah, Highsmith, Najee and Warren. It feels like some of the rookies like Broderick Jones, Nick Herbig, Keanu Benton, and Joey Porter Jr also fit that mindset.

Hopefully, even if we get a new coach, the Steelers will continue to find a middle-ground between talent and mindset. I think we did a great job of that in the last draft, but we'll see.

Would not be shocked to see both Pickens and Diontae traded this offseason, but I'd rather keep Pickens and find an OC who can keep him engaged (if that's possible).

I hate that approach. If Tomlin's approach is too narrowly focused on that type of player, they're going to miss out on a ton of talent that simply needs a different style of coaching. I'd rather have a coach whose style is adaptable and more in tune with a wider range of personalities, because it takes all kinds to be successful.

And again, it's not just about this year. It's about the past 13 years, and a ton of different players have come and gone during that time with similar results. At some point, the messaging has to change and the coaching style has to adapt with more innovation and better schemes on both sides of the ball.

 

[H8fulHuck]

PFF grades for the OL this week were abysmal. Daniels somehow scored a 0.0 pass block grade. Broderick Jones 19.3 Dan Moore 27.5 Seumalo 47.0 and the best pass block grade was Mason Cole at 50.9
Link to article

Tom Brady would have a bad day behind that trash. If a true franchise QB falls in the first, run to the podium. Otherwise, I like the approach of building up the trenches. Bring in an offensive genius as OC or HC and work with Omar to acquire the pieces we need.

 

[sm8680]

In theory you could fix the offensive line. But Pickett will be at best a competent QB. I tend to agree with Mike Mayock's assessment. Steelers don't want a competent QB. A competent QB is a run of the mile, average, C type of guy. There's no hope for KP. A horrible scheme\coaching will hinder even a talented QB like Justin Herbert. Reality is that we are stuck with KP for 2 more years. If we are lucky as a backup QB. Then like what happened to Devin Bush, that will soon happen to Najee will then happen to KP no 5th year for you.

The offensive line is a massive sore point so over paid. Performing poorly.

One of the best management books I've read was manage people not personnel. It provides practical guidance on what works and what doesn’t when it comes to achieving top performance from employees. What may work on one person may not work on someone else. Have to find out what motivates people and hone in on that.

 

[steelers1080]

Per the Rich Eisen show he discussed Tomlin's coaching with TJ Watt and got some semi-clear answers. Essentially it sounds like Tomlin's coaching style is to lead you to improvement, but doesn't hold your hand. He inspires players to improve but treats them like adults. TJ Watt said basically "I love Tomlin's style, but I don't know why it doesn't work on some of our other (younger) players."

It feels like the methods Tomlin uses resonate with "old-school" players or ones that have a deep love of the game/drive to get better, but doesn't engage younger players with different mindsets.

If they keep Tomlin, they have to do what the Pats did (successfully for many years, now not so much) and get players that fit that Steelers mentality that existed ~10+ years ago. Players who feel like Steelers and have a drive to be the best they can be. AB might have been nuts and a diva, but at least he honed his craft incessantly and worked to be the best WR in the NFL. Bell on the other hand did not have that drive to be the best and focus on football.

It feels obvious which players have that drive and mindset that resonates with Tomlin, because those players seem to do the best in our system. When I think of that old school Steelers style the players that fit are those like Watt, Heyward, Minkah, Highsmith, Najee and Warren. It feels like some of the rookies like Broderick Jones, Nick Herbig, Keanu Benton, and Joey Porter Jr also fit that mindset.

Hopefully, even if we get a new coach, the Steelers will continue to find a middle-ground between talent and mindset. I think we did a great job of that in the last draft, but we'll see.

Would not be shocked to see both Pickens and Diontae traded this offseason, but I'd rather keep Pickens and find an OC who can keep him engaged (if that's possible).

I hate that approach. If Tomlin's approach is too narrowly focused on that type of player, they're going to miss out on a ton of talent that simply needs a different style of coaching. I'd rather have a coach whose style is adaptable and more in tune with a wider range of personalities, because it takes all kinds to be successful.

And again, it's not just about this year. It's about the past 13 years, and a ton of different players have come and gone during that time with similar results. At some point, the messaging has to change and the coaching style has to adapt with more innovation and better schemes on both sides of the ball.

I agree that this isn't optimal. One way to offset it would be to have Coordinators who resonate with the players, but then what's the point of having a HC who doesn't.

He has yet to adapt and at a certain point it's too late. Like a significant other promising to change, but it's like, it wasn't working, why didn't you change until right before the breakup.

 

[McBokonon]

Diontae showing pure heart here: https://x.com/barstoolsports/status/1728848323061444983?s=46

Straight up heart from Pickens here: https://twitter.com/_MLFootball/status/1736164425629884851

This is what the team has turned into. This is what you get when strive for mediocrity and want to be a buddy to your players.

I think he wasn’t in a good position to block there without getting a flag.

Well, it would have sounded better if he said that instead of what he said today when asked about it(which is likely the truth):

George Pickens: "I was just trying to prevent the Tank Dell situation...I ain't want to get an injury. When you stay up on those blocks you can get ran up on. That's the reason."

 

[Godsbrother]

PFF grades for the OL this week were abysmal. Daniels somehow scored a 0.0 pass block grade. Broderick Jones 19.3 Dan Moore 27.5 Seumalo 47.0 and the best pass block grade was Mason Cole at 50.9
Link to article

Tom Brady would have a bad day behind that trash. If a true franchise QB falls in the first, run to the podium. Otherwise, I like the approach of building up the trenches. Bring in an offensive genius as OC or HC and work with Omar to acquire the pieces we need.

This is why I think it is imperative to concentrate on vastly improving the offensive line and worry about QB now. If this team had a consistently good running game and above average pass protection they could adequately evaluate QB talent. As I said before I wanted them to do this in 2022 rather than take Kenny Pickett.

 

[steelers1080]

PFF grades for the OL this week were abysmal. Daniels somehow scored a 0.0 pass block grade. Broderick Jones 19.3 Dan Moore 27.5 Seumalo 47.0 and the best pass block grade was Mason Cole at 50.9
Link to article

Tom Brady would have a bad day behind that trash. If a true franchise QB falls in the first, run to the podium. Otherwise, I like the approach of building up the trenches. Bring in an offensive genius as OC or HC and work with Omar to acquire the pieces we need.

This is why I think it is imperative to concentrate on vastly improving the offensive line and worry about QB now. If this team had a consistently good running game and above average pass protection they could adequately evaluate QB talent. As I said before I wanted them to do this in 2022 rather than take Kenny Pickett.

You know what might immediately improve the offensive line? A coaching change at OC/O-line.

After even Kendrick Green had success, how do we know our line is really that bad... (aside from Mason who can't win 1 on 1 blocks ever or block downfield).

 

[karl.Racki]

Got a weird vibe Steelers are winning Saturday

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

PFF grades for the OL this week were abysmal. Daniels somehow scored a 0.0 pass block grade. Broderick Jones 19.3 Dan Moore 27.5 Seumalo 47.0 and the best pass block grade was Mason Cole at 50.9
Link to article

Tom Brady would have a bad day behind that trash. If a true franchise QB falls in the first, run to the podium. Otherwise, I like the approach of building up the trenches. Bring in an offensive genius as OC or HC and work with Omar to acquire the pieces we need.

This is why I think it is imperative to concentrate on vastly improving the offensive line and worry about QB now. If this team had a consistently good running game and above average pass protection they could adequately evaluate QB talent. As I said before I wanted them to do this in 2022 rather than take Kenny Pickett.

You know what might immediately improve the offensive line? A coaching change at OC/O-line.

After even Kendrick Green had success, how do we know our line is really that bad... (aside from Mason who can't win 1 on 1 blocks ever or block downfield).

We have had horrid O-Line coaching and play since we lost Munchak.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Do we want Pickett to play so we get more of a look at him, or do we want to see what Rudy can do -- and what if he is better than the other two (like he was in camp)??

 

[irish eyes]

I would have cut Pickens or at the very least benched him rest of the season. What does Tomlin do.... nothing. Apparently he's starting from what I hear.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I didn't think the Pickens block was even half as egregious as what Dionte did a few weeks ago.

 

[Max55]

Do we want Pickett to play so we get more of a look at him, or do we want to see what Rudy can do -- and what if he is better than the other two (like he was in camp)??

Steelers season is done. Pickett will be back next year imo no matter what but I can see them either drafting a QB in the mid rounds or signing somebody. Pickett will have a short leash as the starter imo in 2024 season.

With that mouthful I want to take another look at Rudolph to either keep him or move on.

 

[karl.Racki]

I would have cut Pickens or at the very least benched him rest of the season. What does Tomlin do.... nothing. Apparently he's starting from what I hear.

If Steelers cut everyone who doesn't try or takes a play off, we wouldn't have a team..

 

[karl.Racki]

Do we want Pickett to play so we get more of a look at him, or do we want to see what Rudy can do -- and what if he is better than the other two (like he was in camp)??

Pickett.. He needs all the reps and play time he can use.. Mason sucks, 2019 showed us that.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Trouble in paradise? “I would have blocked for Pickens”, - Jaylen Warren

 

[H8fulHuck]

Do we want Pickett to play so we get more of a look at him, or do we want to see what Rudy can do -- and what if he is better than the other two (like he was in camp)??

First, we could all use a chuckle. Steelers Reddit someone made a Rudolph the third string QB song to Rudolph the red nose reindeer. Worth a listen over there. Tweaked a version here inspired by his jingle…

Rudy the third string QB, had a very dented head. After Miles Garret mashed it, you might even think he's dead.
All of the other QBs, used to laugh and call him names, they never thought poor Rudy, could win us any Steelers games.
In this crappy football year, Tomlin came to say. Rudolph with your arm so bright, won’t you guide our team tonight?
Though all the yinzers boo him, as he throws pick number three, Rudy the third string QB, you’ll go down in history!

Second, I’m glad Rudy has a good shot to play. If he does well, it gives him a better shot at more playing time with us or another team like the Vikings. Good luck Rudy! Would be awesome if he utilizes Cal Austin and ARob. Get the ball to players who work hard every day and hungry to succeed. Would have so much respect if he asks coach to bench Pickens because he doesn’t trust him. Warren and Najee have been max effort guys too.

 

[3C's]

Got a weird vibe Steelers are winning Saturday

Probably will. And make their draft position worse and build a little hope that they can eek out 9 wins so the media can keep up the "no losing season" BS. I don't think they'll lose 6 in a row so a win has to come in somewhere. Might as well be this one. If they do lose 6 in a row...ho boy will it get ugly.

 

[Steeler]

This is the approach they should have taken in 2022.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

"Need to see Rudolph"? C'mooon. We already know. Dude is a smacked a$$'s smacked a$$.

Rather see Najee go full wildcat the whole game.

 

[Zeppelin]

Trouble in paradise? “I would have blocked for Pickens”, - Jaylen Warren

Dan Campbell reacting to someone not blocking.

I posted this in the Detroit Lions thread but it fits here.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Watching all-22 or whatever, Pickens does initiate his block. And if Moore blocked better and Warren went outside instead of cutting inside, he has a TD. But the play took a little long to develop and I really don't see how Pickens maintains that block without a penalty. Remember he was a more aggressive blocker earlier in the season, but was called for a few penalties. Also, he did almost get rolled up on at the end of the play.

 

[Max55]

Watching all-22 or whatever, Pickens does initiate his block. And if Moore blocked better and Warren went outside instead of cutting inside, he has a TD. But the play took a little long to develop and I really don't see how Pickens maintains that block without a penalty. Remember he was a more aggressive blocker earlier in the season, but was called for a few penalties. Also, he did almost get rolled up on at the end of the play.

For me it’s not how long Pickens can or can’t hold his block. It’s the optics of making no effort. The play that is arguably even worse is on one of Mitch’s interceptions where Pickens just kind of runs downfield paying no attention to the play or the defender with the ball.

With multiple lazy plays by Pickens over the past couple of weeks, poor body language, and poor interviews I don’t know how anybody can defend him at this point.

I thought the Jaylen Warren comment of “I’d block for him” says a lot.

I’m in the camp to get rid of him for the best return available even if it’s pennies on the dollar.

 

[sm8680]

Watching all-22 or whatever, Pickens does initiate his block. And if Moore blocked better and Warren went outside instead of cutting inside, he has a TD. But the play took a little long to develop and I really don't see how Pickens maintains that block without a penalty. Remember he was a more aggressive blocker earlier in the season, but was called for a few penalties. Also, he did almost get rolled up on at the end of the play.

Leroy I normally love what you're saying. The overall problem that I have with Pickens is that he didn't even attempt to fake effort. He just dogged the play looked like a fool just standing there like the Tin Man in the Wizard of Oz and would have stood still if it hadn't been for the defensive back that forced him to jump over him. George is extremely talented granted he's not the best route runner. But his hands, feet, jumping to get the ball, and blocking when he wants to block are what has Steelers fans/fantasy footballers salivating at his potential.

What's going against George is the offensive play calling, porous QB play, lack of head coach getting in players faces calling them out on their lack of effort or inadequacies. I was looking up great receivers with Top 15 WRs Who Were Stuck with Bad QBs. But I kept coming back to how awful the coaching is this year. I'm definitely giving George the benefit of the doubt. I don't want to see him go because if he does go and just happens to have a QB he will blossom. I want to see him blossom here.

The Pat McAfee Show had a really good discussion on the George Pickens situation. They talked about the culture in Detroit, San Fran to name a few. Showed how their WR's sustain their blocks. In essence my takeaway is that it's more on the Steeler's culture the way they are trending downward than it is on George. George recently received some massive creds when Belichick stated that his game plan was to neutralize George and TJ.

 

[3C's]

Rudy Rudy Rudy! Pickett is out.

 

[sm8680]

Rudy Rudy Rudy! Pickett is out.

When something bad happens, you have three choices. You can either let if define you, let it destroy, or can let it strengthen you.
Dr. Seuss

Unfortunately, the Steelers 3 choices are Pickett, TooRisky and Rudolph

 

[3C's]

Rudy Rudy Rudy! Pickett is out.

When something bad happens, you have three choices. You can either let if define you, let it destroy, or can let it strengthen you.
Dr. Seuss

Unfortunately, the Steelers 3 choices are Pickett, TooRisky and Rudolph

I'm still on the Kenny train but I'm hanging out over the rails. Better coaching and Oline could really help. Not expecting Mahomes/Allen, or even Cousins, but as Mayock said he could be "competent" and that's better than what we've seen.

 

[steelers1080]

It still feels like we win at least one of these final games. With Chase out, we have a decent shot if the offense can do anything... which is a big ask right now.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Steeler fan Florio saying Steelers wanna extend Tomlin

Linky

-QG

 

[irish eyes]

Steeler fan Florio saying Steelers wanna extend Tomlin

Linky

-QG

Of course, while extending fan misery for whatever number of years it's for.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Rudy was the best QB in camp too.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Steeler fan Florio saying Steelers wanna extend Tomlin

Linky

-QG

He isn’t going anywhere.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Wish he got 10 more yards.

Rudolph threw some darts and actually went through progressions. Who knews that could lead to points??

 

[3C's]

Happy for Mason. Hopefully he'll get another shot.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Rudy was the best QB in camp too.

That's not saying a ton, though.

Good for him for tonight. He's still not a long-term starting caliber NFL QB. I'm totally fine risking that he'd prove me wrong on some other team.

 

[VikingFrog]

Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in.

Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in.

youtu.be

 

[steelers1080]

Now, let's keep fingers crossed it wasn't a 1-week fluke because bad Bengals D and they didn't have recent tape on Rudolph. Real test next week.

 

[steelers1080]

Do they let Rudolph keep starting if Kenny is healthy enough to play next week?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Do they let Rudolph keep starting if Kenny is healthy enough to play next week?

Probably not. Not Tomlin's style. "You can't lose your job to injury blah, blah." sound like something he'd have cross-stitched on sampler over his desk.

Buuuut..."healthy enough" is pretty subjective. If Kenny isn't fully 100%? He's got an out there, if he wanted to go back to the Rudolph well again. I wouldn't expect a repeat performance, and I doubt Tomlin would either, but I could see him at least having the discussion with himself if Pickett were only, say, "75%".

 

[-OZ-]

Steeler fan Florio saying Steelers wanna extend Tomlin

Linky

-QG

Of course, while extending fan misery for whatever number of years it's for.

Coach has 16 straight seasons without a Losing record, fans still miserable.

 

[sm8680]

2019 Mason 2nd year in the league he had 13 TDs, 1,765 passing yards and 9 Ints in 10 games. Keep in mind Ben was injured.
2023 KP 2nd year in the league has 6 TDs, 2,070 passing yards and 4 Ints in 12 games.

KP is 25 years old, and Mason is 28 years old. Mason's growth in his early years could have been stunted due to Ben who was 36 at the time who wasn't happy that his potential heir apparent being drafted.

11/26 against the Bengals KP threw for 276 yards and 0 TDs.
12/23 against the Bengals Mason threw for 290 yards and 2 TDs.

Steelers last 4 games that KP played he threw for 0 TDs. Granted the last of those games against the Cardinals he was injured.

Chris Hoke all season long stood by his comments that Mason was the best QB in camp.

Keep in mind could this be a potential misevaluation of the talent. You have to respect the fact that Mason who in 2019 thought he was the heir apparent. 2022 Steelers sign TooRisky and draft KP in the first round. Mason rides the pine as the 3rd string QB. 2023 season he's a free agent finds no takers returns to the Steelers on a 1-year deal for 1 million. Rides the pine then called upon due to KP beng injured and TooRisky not performing up to expectations.

 

[sm8680]

Steeler fan Florio saying Steelers wanna extend Tomlin

Linky

-QG

Of course, while extending fan misery for whatever number of years it's for.

Coach has 16 straight seasons without a Losing record, fans still miserable.

Unfortunately, Steeler fans want to see post season wins as well as Superbowl's. You obviously haven't been following the Steelers closely the last x amount number of years. You're biting on the most over quoted line ever. Statistics are meant to be manipulated. Eagles fired Pederson 2 years after a superbowl win. Lakers fired the head coach a few years after the NBA title. There's a number of organizations that don't settle for middle of the pack.

 

[-OZ-]

Steeler fan Florio saying Steelers wanna extend Tomlin

Linky

-QG

Of course, while extending fan misery for whatever number of years it's for.

Coach has 16 straight seasons without a Losing record, fans still miserable.

Unfortunately, Steeler fans want to see post season wins as well as Superbowl's. You obviously haven't been following the Steelers closely the last x amount number of years. You're biting on the most over quoted line ever. Statistics are meant to be manipulated. Eagles fired Pederson 2 years after a superbowl win. Lakers fired the head coach a few years after the NBA title. There's a number of organizations that don't settle for middle of the pack.

I grew up a lions fan. that’s misery.
Adopted the titans when they moved to Nashville. We’ve had a few fun years for sure, but y’all are spoiled.

Philly fired Peterson after a 4-11 season, which Tomlin has never had.
Go ahead and fire him, if he landed with the chargers or a few other teams he’d probably be in the Super Bowl before the Steelers make it back.

 

[karl.Racki]

Do they let Rudolph keep starting if Kenny is healthy enough to play next week?

I don't know.. I feel like it's a double edge sword with Mason.. He caught lightning in a bottle yesterday. He QB for a wounded team with a lot of talent that cam,e out and played their A Game against a team without their best 2 players. I am not sure he will repeat that in Seattle.

In terms of Kenny, I know he isn't Dan Marino out there, but one thing about him is how well he protects the ball. I still am not ready to throw him to the curve like others are.

If Pickett is healthy, I would start him, but if he isn't 100%, I would go with Mason and have Kenny on ready status.

 

[pecorino]

Which teams should I be rooting for or against this week? I have idea what needs to happen (aside from the minor detail that the Steelers need to win out) to make the playoffs.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Which teams should I be rooting for or against this week? I have idea what needs to happen (aside from the minor detail that the Steelers need to win out) to make the playoffs.

Merry Christmas

From an irritated Bengals fan

-QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

It's nothing mean just a link to the Steelers rooting calculator on the NYT site.

-QG