2024 Quarterback class revisited (1 Viewer)

[BlackCrowes]

Just remember last year at this time Stroud was a top 5 QB and Bryce was a bust. Things will change...

Things might change. Everyone is different

 

[Snotbubbles]

Just remember last year at this time Stroud was a top 5 QB and Bryce was a bust. Things will change...

Things might change. Everyone is different

Both those guys are only 23, so in 2 years they'll be the same age as Bo Nix.

 

[mcd]

Really had no interest in Nix until he was drafted by Payton. Being in that QB friendly system will payoff over time. Daniels averaged 4.25 points a game over Nix over the full 17 game fantasy season (in my league). If you realize Nix started really slow and remove the 1st 4 games and look at weeks 5-17, Daniels only averaged 1.3 points a game over Nix (they were ranked #7 and #8).

I still have Daniels over Nix (and like Mayes also), but being in Payton's system, Nix could certainly be the long term winner.

 

[travdogg]

Really had no interest in Nix until he was drafted by Payton. Being in that QB friendly system will payoff over time. Daniels averaged 4.25 points a game over Nix over the full 17 game fantasy season (in my league). If you realize Nix started really slow and remove the 1st 4 games and look at weeks 5-17, Daniels only averaged 1.3 points a game over Nix (they were ranked #7 and #8).

I still have Daniels over Nix (and like Mayes also), but being in Payton's system, Nix could certainly be the long term winner.

Have to factor in that Daniels week 7 shouldn't count (he played 1 series) and he played less than a half against Dallas in week 18. So, subtract 44 passing yards and 77 rushing yards, and give him 15 games played.

Do that, and Daniels is at 23.2 PPG, which bumps him up to QB3 on the season, and is a 2.3 PPG increase. So really Nix (even accounting for the slow start) was roughly 3.6 PPG lower.

Also, Daniels played through a painful injury that limited his both his rushing, and his accuracy for a few weeks. Both his worst completion percentage and fewest rush attempts came during that stretch.

Not trying to take anything away from Nix, just reiterating that Daniels is already elite.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Daniels
Maye
Caleb
Nix
McCarthy
Penix

I like this order!

Penix has shown enough that I put him above McCarthy who we saw nothing. Still have hopes for JJ.

I agree with this as we have no idea what JJMC looks like at the pro level. However, I do like his odds with the Vikings coaching staff.

 

[mcd]

Really had no interest in Nix until he was drafted by Payton. Being in that QB friendly system will payoff over time. Daniels averaged 4.25 points a game over Nix over the full 17 game fantasy season (in my league). If you realize Nix started really slow and remove the 1st 4 games and look at weeks 5-17, Daniels only averaged 1.3 points a game over Nix (they were ranked #7 and #8).

I still have Daniels over Nix (and like Mayes also), but being in Payton's system, Nix could certainly be the long term winner.

Have to factor in that Daniels week 7 shouldn't count (he played 1 series) and he played less than a half against Dallas in week 18. So, subtract 44 passing yards and 77 rushing yards, and give him 15 games played.

Do that, and Daniels is at 23.2 PPG, which bumps him up to QB3 on the season, and is a 2.3 PPG increase. So really Nix (even accounting for the slow start) was roughly 3.6 PPG lower.

Also, Daniels played through a painful injury that limited his both his rushing, and his accuracy for a few weeks. Both his worst completion percentage and fewest rush attempts came during that stretch.

Not trying to take anything away from Nix, just reiterating that Daniels is already elite.

I agree with most everything you are saying. I did say I still have Daniels over Nix.
That said, I only used week 5-17, so Nix's huge game against the KC backups (and Daniels poor half game) in week 18 were not factored into the numbers. If it had been included, Nix would have flat out outscored Daniels by over 20 points from week 5-18 and jumped him in the rankings for that time period.
As far as Daniels missing time and playing hurt, it's going to happen with his size and style of play.

 

[Born to Run]

Really had no interest in Nix until he was drafted by Payton. Being in that QB friendly system will payoff over time. Daniels averaged 4.25 points a game over Nix over the full 17 game fantasy season (in my league). If you realize Nix started really slow and remove the 1st 4 games and look at weeks 5-17, Daniels only averaged 1.3 points a game over Nix (they were ranked #7 and #8).

I still have Daniels over Nix (and like Mayes also), but being in Payton's system, Nix could certainly be the long term winner.

Have to factor in that Daniels week 7 shouldn't count (he played 1 series) and he played less than a half against Dallas in week 18. So, subtract 44 passing yards and 77 rushing yards, and give him 15 games played.

Do that, and Daniels is at 23.2 PPG, which bumps him up to QB3 on the season, and is a 2.3 PPG increase. So really Nix (even accounting for the slow start) was roughly 3.6 PPG lower.

Also, Daniels played through a painful injury that limited his both his rushing, and his accuracy for a few weeks. Both his worst completion percentage and fewest rush attempts came during that stretch.

Not trying to take anything away from Nix, just reiterating that Daniels is already elite.

I agree with most everything you are saying. I did say I still have Daniels over Nix.
That said, I only used week 5-17, so Nix's huge game against the KC backups (and Daniels poor half game) in week 18 were not factored into the numbers. If it had been included, Nix would have flat out outscored Daniels by over 20 points from week 5-18 and jumped him in the rankings for that time period.
As far as Daniels missing time and playing hurt, it's going to happen with his size and style of play.

Really hope that Daniels learns to run more like Mahomes (take what is offered and get down or get out of bounds) and less like Allen and Lamar (I can give as good as I can take).

 

[Born to Run]

It says a lot about the 2024 QB class that McCarthy, as good a prospect as he is, still consistently falls at the bottom of the list. Typically one or more of the rookies flops bad enough to take that spot.

So where does McCarthy fit in with the 2025 class? I would take Ward first then McCarthy then Sanders. Those three well ahead of the rest of the pack.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

1. Daniels, already a top-5 NFL player.

(big dropoff)

2. McCarthy, I think Darnold is a fringe starter, and look what he did in this offense, McCarthy is an upgrade in every way. Huge dynasty target in my eyes. There's a Burrow ceiling here if everything breaks right.

(dropoff)

3. Maye, showed a lot with little around him. Has some Josh Allen to his game, we'll see how he develops. I wasn't thrilled by the Vrabel hire.

(dropoff)

WOW. The Daniels declaration is a reach at such an early point, but I can respect it.

The McCarthy pick makes little sense to me. You are going on what exactly? A good college season surrounded by a great team and coach? And you actually lean on on Sam Darnold as some sort of "proof" of JJ being good? How does that jibe exactly? That runs counter -- or at a minimum, makes little sense -- to any point regarding his individual talent. I mean you are literally talking about the talent surrounding him, again (Michigan). This proves what about him?

Please, explain that part of your JJ #2 reasoning. That smells of more than just a little bias. Hello, we are how far into his career? And Sam Darnold, again, is what sort of barometer for a JJ McCarthy argument how?

We don't even have to go into the part he hasn't really played. Or should we? Reading this, you'd think it was JJ that took them to 14-2, got injured, and the team collapsed.

Your "drop-offs", btw, are interesting, to say the least. You have that much to go on, already?

With only 1 year of NFL play, I'm still weighing college play, and prospect analysis quite a bit. I think that makes sense for young players, and I'd even argue its not until year 3 or so, when we should start looking an NFL-only returns. In that regard, I was one of the people still defending Bryce Young at this time last year, though I'd still have him behind all 6 of these guys.

I think QB in general has some steep dropoffs. Overall I think:
1. Josh Allen
(big dropoff)
2. Lamar Jackson/Patrick Mahomes
(dropoff)
4. Joe Burrow/Jayden Daniels
(dropoff)
6. Justin Herbert

After the top-5, if I were starting an NFL team, I think its reasonable to start looking outside of QB, though I'd probably still go Herbert over guys like Myles Garrett, Nick Bosa, or Micah Parsons. Though maybe not Garrett if he were younger.

The reason I bring that up, is I really liked JJ McCarthy as a prospect. I will 100% admit, as much as I attempt not to, the occasional bias will slip in. I am a Michigan guy, but I think more often than not, that makes me harder on Wolverines than easier on them. I did in 2022 say Aidan Hutchinson was the best defensive prospect since Myles Garrett, I didn't think that was bias.

Which brings me back to McCarthy. I think JJ McCarthy has a Joe Burrow level ceiling. I think the Wolverines offense held him back, because they were blowing teams out so much, that he wasn't asked to do much. Whenever he was, he came through. I bring up Darnold, because I think Darnold is a fringe starting talent, who had a career year in an extremely QB friendly offense. JJ McCarthy is better than Darnold at pretty much everything. More accurate, more mobile (assuming the meniscus is fully healed) better decision maker, and better under pressure, the one advantage Darnold may have is arm strength, and even then, I'd probably call that a tie.

I feel like JJ McCarthy in this extremely QB friendly offense, has a shot to be viewed in a similar light this time next year, as Justin Herbert.

Its possible I'm answering a different question than what is being asked. I took this as more of a how would you rank them going forward question. Not a what have they shown so far question. So, situation took some precedence. If it was just off how they played this season, I'd say:

Daniels
(huge dropoff)
Nix
Maye
(dropoff)
Caleb
(dropoff)
Penix
McCarthy

So was it you that reported me?

Simple question.

Did JJ's shortcomings do enough for you to "report" another poster? Be honest, old friend.

We're just curious why and who? My call is it what it is, super simple. And could totally be wrong. But reason for "BANNING"?

I actually don't think it was you, Travisdadawg, we get along, no?

But who cares, means nothing, tell us why or why not if it was you, if you don't mind, and thanks bud!

 

[travdogg]

1. Daniels, already a top-5 NFL player.

(big dropoff)

2. McCarthy, I think Darnold is a fringe starter, and look what he did in this offense, McCarthy is an upgrade in every way. Huge dynasty target in my eyes. There's a Burrow ceiling here if everything breaks right.

(dropoff)

3. Maye, showed a lot with little around him. Has some Josh Allen to his game, we'll see how he develops. I wasn't thrilled by the Vrabel hire.

(dropoff)

WOW. The Daniels declaration is a reach at such an early point, but I can respect it.

The McCarthy pick makes little sense to me. You are going on what exactly? A good college season surrounded by a great team and coach? And you actually lean on on Sam Darnold as some sort of "proof" of JJ being good? How does that jibe exactly? That runs counter -- or at a minimum, makes little sense -- to any point regarding his individual talent. I mean you are literally talking about the talent surrounding him, again (Michigan). This proves what about him?

Please, explain that part of your JJ #2 reasoning. That smells of more than just a little bias. Hello, we are how far into his career? And Sam Darnold, again, is what sort of barometer for a JJ McCarthy argument how?

We don't even have to go into the part he hasn't really played. Or should we? Reading this, you'd think it was JJ that took them to 14-2, got injured, and the team collapsed.

Your "drop-offs", btw, are interesting, to say the least. You have that much to go on, already?

With only 1 year of NFL play, I'm still weighing college play, and prospect analysis quite a bit. I think that makes sense for young players, and I'd even argue its not until year 3 or so, when we should start looking an NFL-only returns. In that regard, I was one of the people still defending Bryce Young at this time last year, though I'd still have him behind all 6 of these guys.

I think QB in general has some steep dropoffs. Overall I think:
1. Josh Allen
(big dropoff)
2. Lamar Jackson/Patrick Mahomes
(dropoff)
4. Joe Burrow/Jayden Daniels
(dropoff)
6. Justin Herbert

After the top-5, if I were starting an NFL team, I think its reasonable to start looking outside of QB, though I'd probably still go Herbert over guys like Myles Garrett, Nick Bosa, or Micah Parsons. Though maybe not Garrett if he were younger.

The reason I bring that up, is I really liked JJ McCarthy as a prospect. I will 100% admit, as much as I attempt not to, the occasional bias will slip in. I am a Michigan guy, but I think more often than not, that makes me harder on Wolverines than easier on them. I did in 2022 say Aidan Hutchinson was the best defensive prospect since Myles Garrett, I didn't think that was bias.

Which brings me back to McCarthy. I think JJ McCarthy has a Joe Burrow level ceiling. I think the Wolverines offense held him back, because they were blowing teams out so much, that he wasn't asked to do much. Whenever he was, he came through. I bring up Darnold, because I think Darnold is a fringe starting talent, who had a career year in an extremely QB friendly offense. JJ McCarthy is better than Darnold at pretty much everything. More accurate, more mobile (assuming the meniscus is fully healed) better decision maker, and better under pressure, the one advantage Darnold may have is arm strength, and even then, I'd probably call that a tie.

I feel like JJ McCarthy in this extremely QB friendly offense, has a shot to be viewed in a similar light this time next year, as Justin Herbert.

Its possible I'm answering a different question than what is being asked. I took this as more of a how would you rank them going forward question. Not a what have they shown so far question. So, situation took some precedence. If it was just off how they played this season, I'd say:

Daniels
(huge dropoff)
Nix
Maye
(dropoff)
Caleb
(dropoff)
Penix
McCarthy

So was it you that reported me?

Simple question.

Did JJ's shortcomings do enough for you to "report" another poster? Be honest, old friend.

We're just curious why and who? My call is it what it is, super simple. And could totally be wrong. But reason for "BANNING"?

I actually don't think it was you, Travisdadawg, we get along, no?

But who cares, means nothing, tell us why or why not if it was you, if you don't mind, and thanks bud!

I've never reported anyone and especially wouldn't for simply having a difference of opinion. I don't even have anyone on the ignore list.

 

[Zow]

Daniels
Maye
Caleb
Nix
McCarthy
Penix

Yeah, I'm pretty close to this. Daniels is the clear #1.

I think the only change I may make is moving Caleb to #2 and dropping Maye. The latter obviously looked god and Pats fans should be quite happy with how it all worked out, but I still think Caleb has more talent and he showed flashes of it.

With McCarthy out with injury it's hard to change his ranking and the consensus at the time of the draft is that he was better than Penix so I'd still have him ranked above. Nix showed he is a viable starter in the league so can't argue with him at #4.