2025 College Football Thread: Coach previously left at airport sparking bidding war amongst states with lowest SAT scores (8 Viewers)

[General Malaise]

Also, I have the POV that matters - rankings are dumb. Standings are good. We're heading towards standings that mirror the NFL style of scheduling. It's just bumpy to get there.

Right, I think this is where the sport is ultimately headed. Divisions inside mega conferences. Win your division by virtue of playing every team in that division, and the record is everything. Yeah, sometimes you'll get a division winner with an awful resume but that's what the NFL has had in the past on rare occasion and that sport soldiers on.

Settle it all out on the field. Forget humans and computers. Your record says who you are. We have made this far more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[Chadstroma]

Let me make it easy for you. I don't think there should be any sort of relied upon rankings used for valuation of "good/bad" until the first of Nov. However, I know that won't fly so the least you can do is evaluate the games in the moment and under the immediate circumstances they played. It seems really dumb and lazy to simply give a team a "good" win against a team who was terrible when played but got better as the year went on.

You made it easy for me but it is still a poor position. You want half of the season not to count. And then you want a game where a team doesn't play well to not be a good win even though that is the only game they lose through the year because they didn't look good that day. It totally ignore everything about football.... like sometimes good teams play poorly because of the superior competition that they are facing or because they did not prepare or were not coached well or mentally dropped the ball or a million other things. The whole season tells you what a team is about not a game. You can't ignore the whole first half of a season because.... you think it is lazy I guess? Everything had to be taken into account to judge a team and this argument directly works against my own interests with ND. The loss to Miami is less excusable after Miami has lost games Florida St and Louisville. The loss to Texas A&M is very excusable as they are clearly one of the top three teams in the country.... and when they were losing the game this last weekend, my thought was "crap, that is going to hurt ND". I just really do not think your position is reasonable or is "football". Sorry. I don't see it.

 

[Chadstroma]

Two wrinkles for consideration that always seem to come up around this time each year and/or when ND looks good and people start talking.....

• The NBC deal was originally offered to Oklahoma ; ND was the backup plan
• Up until payouts for CFB Playoff started, it was financially disadvantageous for ND to be an independent
  • I've long since lost the data or articles on this, but I know it was discussed many times in ND circles that had they been a member of the Big Ten or SEC, in particular, they've have made more money despite people being upset about the first bullet and assuming how much the NBC deal was relative to the media rights of those two conferences in particular.

To that second bullet, I can admit it might have since changed. But for all of the financial hate ND gets for its independence, I really do wonder at what point people will believe an institution that has forever done things "because it's tradition" might actually mean it. They like the identity of playing a random game in New York or Texas or Florida instead of solely historically being boxed into only a specific area of the country.

With the playoffs, it might just finally be additionally financially advantageous for their identity to align with their pocket books provided they can sustain a program that makes the playoffs on a semi-regular cadence.

I addressed it above. Purely based on income from their tv deal and then the ACC money, they are bringing in just about, if not more, than the B10, which has the biggest media deal pool for it's teams. B10 gives more to their teams than SEC by a decent margin... around $10 million a year more... except for the new schools. Maybe that gets lowered for all schools once those new schools are treated as equals.

Then the money in playoffs not going to the conference but going to them directly is another huge benefit.

Now this is the first I have ever heard about Oklahoma being the first choice. I did several Google searches and found nothing that stated this. I also did ChatGPT and it said it was myth.

Further, it doesn't make any sense at all. ND has the second largest fanbase that is truly national. A national TV deal for Oklahoma would be a failure for NBC because they would not be able to sell ad time in most of their markets except the greater Oklahoma area. MAYBE Oklahoma was the backup to ND if they couldn't get an agreement but I doubt it. OU and Texas were big additions to SEC to get more fanbase and more money out of their conference deal but a deal for either alone just doesn't make any sense. However, @Instinctive might have some insight on that matter. If he said this was true, I would defer to him but would be absolutely dumbfounded.

 

[urbanhack]

Fun Big Ten scenario I saw online - Michigan and USC win out, Indiana loses to Purdue. That leaves a 4-way tie at 8-1. Michigan and USC both go to the championship game based on common opponent records.

ETA - this guy for the Sporting News has good articles laying out all the tiebreaker scenarios for the big conferences.

Big Ten standings, explained: Updated 2025 tiebreakers for Ohio State, Indiana, Oregon, USC and Michigan | Sporting News

There are still five teams battling for a spot in Indianapolis in the Big Ten.

www.sportingnews.com

Let's be clear about one thing....Indiana is not beating Purdue.

LOL...sorry I typed this out wrong. THERE IS NO WAY PURDUE IS BEATING INDIANA.

 

[Chadstroma]

Also, I have the POV that matters - rankings are dumb. Standings are good. We're heading towards standings that mirror the NFL style of scheduling. It's just bumpy to get there.

Right, I think this is where the sport is ultimately headed. Divisions inside mega conferences. Win your division by virtue of playing every team in that division, and the record is everything. Yeah, sometimes you'll get a division winner with an awful resume but that's what the NFL has had in the past on rare occasion and that sport soldiers on.

Settle it all out on the field. Forget humans and computers. Your record says who you are. We have made this far more complicated than it needs to be.

It would be the death of conferences.... I don't think you can carry the same structure over to other sports and without football the other sports could not exist in a conference. Basketball can't carry the rest of the sports. Then again, many non-money sports are under pressure as the resources that used to be shared from football is being reinvested all into football in order to keep up with the Jonses on spending on NIL.

 

[QuizGuy66]

@QuizGuy66 do you do college football? I need some conference championship tiebreaker breakdowns

Per our convos off board I realized that I actually have a good link for this - though I only ever went there for B1G Basketball Tournament scenarios so didn't pay any mind to the menu at the top.

Here's the site for everyone's benefit. Good stuff.

mred's Big 10 MBB Tournament Seeding Tiebreaker

Big 10 Conference Men's Basketball Tournament Seeding and Tiebreakers

bball.notnothing.net

-QG

 

[Moe.]

Two wrinkles for consideration that always seem to come up around this time each year and/or when ND looks good and people start talking.....

• The NBC deal was originally offered to Oklahoma ; ND was the backup plan
• Up until payouts for CFB Playoff started, it was financially disadvantageous for ND to be an independent
  • I've long since lost the data or articles on this, but I know it was discussed many times in ND circles that had they been a member of the Big Ten or SEC, in particular, they've have made more money despite people being upset about the first bullet and assuming how much the NBC deal was relative to the media rights of those two conferences in particular.

To that second bullet, I can admit it might have since changed. But for all of the financial hate ND gets for its independence, I really do wonder at what point people will believe an institution that has forever done things "because it's tradition" might actually mean it. They like the identity of playing a random game in New York or Texas or Florida instead of solely historically being boxed into only a specific area of the country.

With the playoffs, it might just finally be additionally financially advantageous for their identity to align with their pocket books provided they can sustain a program that makes the playoffs on a semi-regular cadence.

I addressed it above. Purely based on income from their tv deal and then the ACC money, they are bringing in just about, if not more, than the B10, which has the biggest media deal pool for it's teams. B10 gives more to their teams than SEC by a decent margin... around $10 million a year more... except for the new schools. Maybe that gets lowered for all schools once those new schools are treated as equals.

Then the money in playoffs not going to the conference but going to them directly is another huge benefit.

Now this is the first I have ever heard about Oklahoma being the first choice. I did several Google searches and found nothing that stated this. I also did ChatGPT and it said it was myth.

Further, it doesn't make any sense at all. ND has the second largest fanbase that is truly national. A national TV deal for Oklahoma would be a failure for NBC because they would not be able to sell ad time in most of their markets except the greater Oklahoma area. MAYBE Oklahoma was the backup to ND if they couldn't get an agreement but I doubt it. OU and Texas were big additions to SEC to get more fanbase and more money out of their conference deal but a deal for either alone just doesn't make any sense. However, @Instinctive might have some insight on that matter. If he said this was true, I would defer to him but would be absolutely dumbfounded.

ND has been exclusive with NBC since like 1988 or something. He’s probably talking about back then, not anything recent.

OU started all of this in 1984: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_v._Board_of_Regents_of_the_University_of_Oklahoma

 

[bagger]

This whole B1G versus USC and Michigan is getting really interesting. Really glad USC is saying no to this ********.

What I can’t figure out is why Oregon appears to be willing to go along with this. Agreeing to be a Tier 2 school in the conference, making less money than Penn State until 2046. Heck, at this point, why would Indiana agree to be a Tier 3 school in the Big 10???

Makes no sense. I would have reservations letting in private equity into your conference in any scenario, but arbitrarily tiering schools that will be locked in for the next 20 years is insane.

I don’t know if this Indiana thing is a flash in the pan or real but that was the same question of Oregon who arose out of complete historic mediocrity into a perennial powerhouse. Why would Indiana say yes to a tier 3 status if they could be one of the best schools in the conference the next 10 years? If you’re going to do it it should be equitable and everyone get the same amount.

I assume the schools have been arguing over share allocation over the past year or so and schools like Indiana and the other Tier 3 schools are all now on board. The point of Big Ten Enterprises is to consolidate media, marketing, sponsorship assets of all the schools and package it together to add value and attract outside capital. Some schools' brands are more valuable than others so it makes sense to have different tiers based on what each school brings to the table. Under the current proposal (which is on hold until everyone is on board), the University of California employee fund would invest $2.4 billion up front for a 20 year 10% stake in that revenue stream. Tier 1 schools (Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State) would receive approximately $190 million, Tier 2 (USC and Oregon) would get roughly $150 million, and the remaining 13 schools would receive about $110 million each. I don't think we really know what Michigan and USC's issues are, but it likely revolves around the money. I'm sure every athletic conference in the country has been having these same internal debates for at least the past year and we're going to see these deals rolling out across the board in the coming 12 months or so.

No way in hell USC should be a tier 2 school below Penn State. Like our AD said, we know the value of our brand.

 

[Chadstroma]

Two wrinkles for consideration that always seem to come up around this time each year and/or when ND looks good and people start talking.....

• The NBC deal was originally offered to Oklahoma ; ND was the backup plan
• Up until payouts for CFB Playoff started, it was financially disadvantageous for ND to be an independent
  • I've long since lost the data or articles on this, but I know it was discussed many times in ND circles that had they been a member of the Big Ten or SEC, in particular, they've have made more money despite people being upset about the first bullet and assuming how much the NBC deal was relative to the media rights of those two conferences in particular.

To that second bullet, I can admit it might have since changed. But for all of the financial hate ND gets for its independence, I really do wonder at what point people will believe an institution that has forever done things "because it's tradition" might actually mean it. They like the identity of playing a random game in New York or Texas or Florida instead of solely historically being boxed into only a specific area of the country.

With the playoffs, it might just finally be additionally financially advantageous for their identity to align with their pocket books provided they can sustain a program that makes the playoffs on a semi-regular cadence.

I addressed it above. Purely based on income from their tv deal and then the ACC money, they are bringing in just about, if not more, than the B10, which has the biggest media deal pool for it's teams. B10 gives more to their teams than SEC by a decent margin... around $10 million a year more... except for the new schools. Maybe that gets lowered for all schools once those new schools are treated as equals.

Then the money in playoffs not going to the conference but going to them directly is another huge benefit.

Now this is the first I have ever heard about Oklahoma being the first choice. I did several Google searches and found nothing that stated this. I also did ChatGPT and it said it was myth.

Further, it doesn't make any sense at all. ND has the second largest fanbase that is truly national. A national TV deal for Oklahoma would be a failure for NBC because they would not be able to sell ad time in most of their markets except the greater Oklahoma area. MAYBE Oklahoma was the backup to ND if they couldn't get an agreement but I doubt it. OU and Texas were big additions to SEC to get more fanbase and more money out of their conference deal but a deal for either alone just doesn't make any sense. However, @Instinctive might have some insight on that matter. If he said this was true, I would defer to him but would be absolutely dumbfounded.

ND has been exclusive with NBC since like 1988 or something. He’s probably talking about back then, not anything recent.

OU started all of this in 1984: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_v._Board_of_Regents_of_the_University_of_Oklahoma

"The Committee initially determined that there would be only one televised game every Saturday and that no team would appear in a televised game more than once per season. In addition, it was determined that the revenue would be shared by the teams playing the televised game and the NCAA."

Good to see NCAA making horrible decisions and sucking at it's job isn't just a modern thing.

 

[Chadstroma]

Two wrinkles for consideration that always seem to come up around this time each year and/or when ND looks good and people start talking.....

• The NBC deal was originally offered to Oklahoma ; ND was the backup plan
• Up until payouts for CFB Playoff started, it was financially disadvantageous for ND to be an independent
  • I've long since lost the data or articles on this, but I know it was discussed many times in ND circles that had they been a member of the Big Ten or SEC, in particular, they've have made more money despite people being upset about the first bullet and assuming how much the NBC deal was relative to the media rights of those two conferences in particular.

To that second bullet, I can admit it might have since changed. But for all of the financial hate ND gets for its independence, I really do wonder at what point people will believe an institution that has forever done things "because it's tradition" might actually mean it. They like the identity of playing a random game in New York or Texas or Florida instead of solely historically being boxed into only a specific area of the country.

With the playoffs, it might just finally be additionally financially advantageous for their identity to align with their pocket books provided they can sustain a program that makes the playoffs on a semi-regular cadence.

I addressed it above. Purely based on income from their tv deal and then the ACC money, they are bringing in just about, if not more, than the B10, which has the biggest media deal pool for it's teams. B10 gives more to their teams than SEC by a decent margin... around $10 million a year more... except for the new schools. Maybe that gets lowered for all schools once those new schools are treated as equals.

Then the money in playoffs not going to the conference but going to them directly is another huge benefit.

Now this is the first I have ever heard about Oklahoma being the first choice. I did several Google searches and found nothing that stated this. I also did ChatGPT and it said it was myth.

Further, it doesn't make any sense at all. ND has the second largest fanbase that is truly national. A national TV deal for Oklahoma would be a failure for NBC because they would not be able to sell ad time in most of their markets except the greater Oklahoma area. MAYBE Oklahoma was the backup to ND if they couldn't get an agreement but I doubt it. OU and Texas were big additions to SEC to get more fanbase and more money out of their conference deal but a deal for either alone just doesn't make any sense. However, @Instinctive might have some insight on that matter. If he said this was true, I would defer to him but would be absolutely dumbfounded.

ND has been exclusive with NBC since like 1988 or something. He’s probably talking about back then, not anything recent.

OU started all of this in 1984: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_v._Board_of_Regents_of_the_University_of_Oklahoma

So basically they sued and opened the door. Even this has nothing to do with NBC wanting OU over ND. As I noted, it would not make any sense. The fact that ND is uniquely positioned in colleges to have a true national fanbase and not regional thanks to owning the Catholic fans (BYU would be there if there were more Mormons) is what positions it well for a TV deal. No other school has the national appeal though certainly the 5 I noted have regional power.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

This whole B1G versus USC and Michigan is getting really interesting. Really glad USC is saying no to this ********.

What I can’t figure out is why Oregon appears to be willing to go along with this. Agreeing to be a Tier 2 school in the conference, making less money than Penn State until 2046. Heck, at this point, why would Indiana agree to be a Tier 3 school in the Big 10???

Makes no sense. I would have reservations letting in private equity into your conference in any scenario, but arbitrarily tiering schools that will be locked in for the next 20 years is insane.

I don’t know if this Indiana thing is a flash in the pan or real but that was the same question of Oregon who arose out of complete historic mediocrity into a perennial powerhouse. Why would Indiana say yes to a tier 3 status if they could be one of the best schools in the conference the next 10 years? If you’re going to do it it should be equitable and everyone get the same amount.

I assume the schools have been arguing over share allocation over the past year or so and schools like Indiana and the other Tier 3 schools are all now on board. The point of Big Ten Enterprises is to consolidate media, marketing, sponsorship assets of all the schools and package it together to add value and attract outside capital. Some schools' brands are more valuable than others so it makes sense to have different tiers based on what each school brings to the table. Under the current proposal (which is on hold until everyone is on board), the University of California employee fund would invest $2.4 billion up front for a 20 year 10% stake in that revenue stream. Tier 1 schools (Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State) would receive approximately $190 million, Tier 2 (USC and Oregon) would get roughly $150 million, and the remaining 13 schools would receive about $110 million each. I don't think we really know what Michigan and USC's issues are, but it likely revolves around the money. I'm sure every athletic conference in the country has been having these same internal debates for at least the past year and we're going to see these deals rolling out across the board in the coming 12 months or so.

No way in hell USC should be a tier 2 school below Penn State. Like our AD said, we know the value of our brand.

No doubt. I’m about 99% certain both schools are just pushing for more money. They’ll figure it out soon enough and this deal will get done. All the lip service to idealistic notions of amateurism in college sports is hilarious, especially coming from USC and Michigan.

 

[Moe.]

Two wrinkles for consideration that always seem to come up around this time each year and/or when ND looks good and people start talking.....

• The NBC deal was originally offered to Oklahoma ; ND was the backup plan
• Up until payouts for CFB Playoff started, it was financially disadvantageous for ND to be an independent
  • I've long since lost the data or articles on this, but I know it was discussed many times in ND circles that had they been a member of the Big Ten or SEC, in particular, they've have made more money despite people being upset about the first bullet and assuming how much the NBC deal was relative to the media rights of those two conferences in particular.

To that second bullet, I can admit it might have since changed. But for all of the financial hate ND gets for its independence, I really do wonder at what point people will believe an institution that has forever done things "because it's tradition" might actually mean it. They like the identity of playing a random game in New York or Texas or Florida instead of solely historically being boxed into only a specific area of the country.

With the playoffs, it might just finally be additionally financially advantageous for their identity to align with their pocket books provided they can sustain a program that makes the playoffs on a semi-regular cadence.

I addressed it above. Purely based on income from their tv deal and then the ACC money, they are bringing in just about, if not more, than the B10, which has the biggest media deal pool for it's teams. B10 gives more to their teams than SEC by a decent margin... around $10 million a year more... except for the new schools. Maybe that gets lowered for all schools once those new schools are treated as equals.

Then the money in playoffs not going to the conference but going to them directly is another huge benefit.

Now this is the first I have ever heard about Oklahoma being the first choice. I did several Google searches and found nothing that stated this. I also did ChatGPT and it said it was myth.

Further, it doesn't make any sense at all. ND has the second largest fanbase that is truly national. A national TV deal for Oklahoma would be a failure for NBC because they would not be able to sell ad time in most of their markets except the greater Oklahoma area. MAYBE Oklahoma was the backup to ND if they couldn't get an agreement but I doubt it. OU and Texas were big additions to SEC to get more fanbase and more money out of their conference deal but a deal for either alone just doesn't make any sense. However, @Instinctive might have some insight on that matter. If he said this was true, I would defer to him but would be absolutely dumbfounded.

ND has been exclusive with NBC since like 1988 or something. He’s probably talking about back then, not anything recent.

OU started all of this in 1984: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_v._Board_of_Regents_of_the_University_of_Oklahoma

So basically they sued and opened the door. Even this has nothing to do with NBC wanting OU over ND. As I noted, it would not make any sense. The fact that ND is uniquely positioned in colleges to have a true national fanbase and not regional thanks to owning the Catholic fans (BYU would be there if there were more Mormons) is what positions it well for a TV deal. No other school has the national appeal though certainly the 5 I noted have regional power.

I was just trying to explain his comment. I know nothing about what NBC wanted in the late 80s when trying to secure broadcast rights for college football. The reasons you listed are more modern reasons though so I thought you misunderstood what he was trying to say. OU and most schools haven’t controlled their media rights in a long time, so he has to be talking about something from a long time ago.

The Wikipedia article about the court case was just me adding info to the thread. When I say OU started “this” I was referring to media rights being a driving force in college football and conference alignment. In the late 80s OU was one of the few programs that had a national following or brand because so few games were on TV. Again I know nothing about what NBC wanted back then but it seems reasonable that other teams would have been on their radar. It was a much different landscape back then, obviously.

 

[Chadstroma]

Two wrinkles for consideration that always seem to come up around this time each year and/or when ND looks good and people start talking.....

• The NBC deal was originally offered to Oklahoma ; ND was the backup plan
• Up until payouts for CFB Playoff started, it was financially disadvantageous for ND to be an independent
  • I've long since lost the data or articles on this, but I know it was discussed many times in ND circles that had they been a member of the Big Ten or SEC, in particular, they've have made more money despite people being upset about the first bullet and assuming how much the NBC deal was relative to the media rights of those two conferences in particular.

To that second bullet, I can admit it might have since changed. But for all of the financial hate ND gets for its independence, I really do wonder at what point people will believe an institution that has forever done things "because it's tradition" might actually mean it. They like the identity of playing a random game in New York or Texas or Florida instead of solely historically being boxed into only a specific area of the country.

With the playoffs, it might just finally be additionally financially advantageous for their identity to align with their pocket books provided they can sustain a program that makes the playoffs on a semi-regular cadence.

I addressed it above. Purely based on income from their tv deal and then the ACC money, they are bringing in just about, if not more, than the B10, which has the biggest media deal pool for it's teams. B10 gives more to their teams than SEC by a decent margin... around $10 million a year more... except for the new schools. Maybe that gets lowered for all schools once those new schools are treated as equals.

Then the money in playoffs not going to the conference but going to them directly is another huge benefit.

Now this is the first I have ever heard about Oklahoma being the first choice. I did several Google searches and found nothing that stated this. I also did ChatGPT and it said it was myth.

Further, it doesn't make any sense at all. ND has the second largest fanbase that is truly national. A national TV deal for Oklahoma would be a failure for NBC because they would not be able to sell ad time in most of their markets except the greater Oklahoma area. MAYBE Oklahoma was the backup to ND if they couldn't get an agreement but I doubt it. OU and Texas were big additions to SEC to get more fanbase and more money out of their conference deal but a deal for either alone just doesn't make any sense. However, @Instinctive might have some insight on that matter. If he said this was true, I would defer to him but would be absolutely dumbfounded.

ND has been exclusive with NBC since like 1988 or something. He’s probably talking about back then, not anything recent.

OU started all of this in 1984: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_v._Board_of_Regents_of_the_University_of_Oklahoma

So basically they sued and opened the door. Even this has nothing to do with NBC wanting OU over ND. As I noted, it would not make any sense. The fact that ND is uniquely positioned in colleges to have a true national fanbase and not regional thanks to owning the Catholic fans (BYU would be there if there were more Mormons) is what positions it well for a TV deal. No other school has the national appeal though certainly the 5 I noted have regional power.

I was just trying to explain his comment. I know nothing about what NBC wanted in the late 80s when trying to secure broadcast rights for college football. The reasons you listed are more modern reasons though so I thought you misunderstood what he was trying to say. OU and most schools haven’t controlled their media rights in a long time, so he has to be talking about something from a long time ago.

The Wikipedia article about the court case was just me adding info to the thread. When I say OU started “this” I was referring to media rights being a driving force in college football and conference alignment. In the late 80s OU was one of the few programs that had a national following or brand because so few games were on TV. Again I know nothing about what NBC wanted back then but it seems reasonable that other teams would have been on their radar. It was a much different landscape back then, obviously.

I would say that if anything back then it would be even more regional than now. In general, schools are very regional in their fanbases. TV is what started to get schools more exposure outside of their regional areas.

Anecdotally, the 80's was still very much region centered (except my oddball non-Catholic self with ND) growing up in the L.A. area, pretty much everyone was either USC or UCLA fans. In the late 80's and 90's is when I remember people starting to follow successful basketball schools like Duke, NC, UNLV (remember that? lol) etc. Maybe my experience was different but my thinking on that is that in the 80's is when the tv deals and ESPN started to expose people to other schools outside of the regions more to the point that they could be fans of them.

 

[bigbottom]

This whole B1G versus USC and Michigan is getting really interesting. Really glad USC is saying no to this ********.

What I can’t figure out is why Oregon appears to be willing to go along with this. Agreeing to be a Tier 2 school in the conference, making less money than Penn State until 2046. Heck, at this point, why would Indiana agree to be a Tier 3 school in the Big 10???

Makes no sense. I would have reservations letting in private equity into your conference in any scenario, but arbitrarily tiering schools that will be locked in for the next 20 years is insane.

I don’t know if this Indiana thing is a flash in the pan or real but that was the same question of Oregon who arose out of complete historic mediocrity into a perennial powerhouse. Why would Indiana say yes to a tier 3 status if they could be one of the best schools in the conference the next 10 years? If you’re going to do it it should be equitable and everyone get the same amount.

I assume the schools have been arguing over share allocation over the past year or so and schools like Indiana and the other Tier 3 schools are all now on board. The point of Big Ten Enterprises is to consolidate media, marketing, sponsorship assets of all the schools and package it together to add value and attract outside capital. Some schools' brands are more valuable than others so it makes sense to have different tiers based on what each school brings to the table. Under the current proposal (which is on hold until everyone is on board), the University of California employee fund would invest $2.4 billion up front for a 20 year 10% stake in that revenue stream. Tier 1 schools (Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State) would receive approximately $190 million, Tier 2 (USC and Oregon) would get roughly $150 million, and the remaining 13 schools would receive about $110 million each. I don't think we really know what Michigan and USC's issues are, but it likely revolves around the money. I'm sure every athletic conference in the country has been having these same internal debates for at least the past year and we're going to see these deals rolling out across the board in the coming 12 months or so.

No way in hell USC should be a tier 2 school below Penn State. Like our AD said, we know the value of our brand.

No doubt. I’m about 99% certain both schools are just pushing for more money. They’ll figure it out soon enough and this deal will get done. All the lip service to idealistic notions of amateurism in college sports is hilarious, especially coming from USC and Michigan.

Do you have a link to the bolded? I haven’t read anything from USC about why they are opposing the deal other than the statement from Jen Cohen which was exceedingly vague (though we know the Tier 2 status is a non-starter). The statements from the Michigan Board of Regents has been far more pointed but seem to be focused on this simply being a terrible deal that trades the future for near term gain (it’s been characterized as a “payday loan”). I haven’t seen anything about idealistic notions of amateurism in sports but I easily could have missed it as I haven’t been following as closely as others.

 

[Instinctive]

Two wrinkles for consideration that always seem to come up around this time each year and/or when ND looks good and people start talking.....

• The NBC deal was originally offered to Oklahoma ; ND was the backup plan
• Up until payouts for CFB Playoff started, it was financially disadvantageous for ND to be an independent
  • I've long since lost the data or articles on this, but I know it was discussed many times in ND circles that had they been a member of the Big Ten or SEC, in particular, they've have made more money despite people being upset about the first bullet and assuming how much the NBC deal was relative to the media rights of those two conferences in particular.

To that second bullet, I can admit it might have since changed. But for all of the financial hate ND gets for its independence, I really do wonder at what point people will believe an institution that has forever done things "because it's tradition" might actually mean it. They like the identity of playing a random game in New York or Texas or Florida instead of solely historically being boxed into only a specific area of the country.

With the playoffs, it might just finally be additionally financially advantageous for their identity to align with their pocket books provided they can sustain a program that makes the playoffs on a semi-regular cadence.

I addressed it above. Purely based on income from their tv deal and then the ACC money, they are bringing in just about, if not more, than the B10, which has the biggest media deal pool for it's teams. B10 gives more to their teams than SEC by a decent margin... around $10 million a year more... except for the new schools. Maybe that gets lowered for all schools once those new schools are treated as equals.

Then the money in playoffs not going to the conference but going to them directly is another huge benefit.

Now this is the first I have ever heard about Oklahoma being the first choice. I did several Google searches and found nothing that stated this. I also did ChatGPT and it said it was myth.

Further, it doesn't make any sense at all. ND has the second largest fanbase that is truly national. A national TV deal for Oklahoma would be a failure for NBC because they would not be able to sell ad time in most of their markets except the greater Oklahoma area. MAYBE Oklahoma was the backup to ND if they couldn't get an agreement but I doubt it. OU and Texas were big additions to SEC to get more fanbase and more money out of their conference deal but a deal for either alone just doesn't make any sense. However, @Instinctive might have some insight on that matter. If he said this was true, I would defer to him but would be absolutely dumbfounded.

Yall asking me stuff before my time.

 

[Instinctive]

Also, I have the POV that matters - rankings are dumb. Standings are good. We're heading towards standings that mirror the NFL style of scheduling. It's just bumpy to get there.

Right, I think this is where the sport is ultimately headed. Divisions inside mega conferences. Win your division by virtue of playing every team in that division, and the record is everything. Yeah, sometimes you'll get a division winner with an awful resume but that's what the NFL has had in the past on rare occasion and that sport soldiers on.

Settle it all out on the field. Forget humans and computers. Your record says who you are. We have made this far more complicated than it needs to be.

It would be the death of conferences.... I don't think you can carry the same structure over to other sports and without football the other sports could not exist in a conference. Basketball can't carry the rest of the sports. Then again, many non-money sports are under pressure as the resources that used to be shared from football is being reinvested all into football in order to keep up with the Jonses on spending on NIL.

Eventually, everyone will carve out football, possibly basketball, and get the old conferences for most other sports. Too much money.

 

[Instinctive]

Horrible rankings

Top ten looks pretty good to me. After that there’s a fair amount to criticize. But my view is that many/most of those issues may become moot over the next couple weeks.

oregon and ND have no business being over bama. they have no good wins. and easy as hell schedules.

They don't have a loss to Florida State either. Committee made it clear when comparing ND to Miami that bad losses count more than head to head or good wins. I don't agree with it.

They also said Oregon gets credit for beating a top 5 Penn State team. But Georgia Tech is not getting credit for beating a top 10 Clemson and Miami isn't getting credit for beating ranked FSU and Florida when those games were played. This committee is as bad and inconsistent as any NCAA committee.

Good news for Alabama though is they can move up with a tough win against Eastern Illinois this weekend.

penn state is not a top 5 team though. they fired their damn coach. its not what they were its where they are today. i just wish biased humans were not a part of the process and we had a firm criteria to go off of. for the record i dont think bama can beat both auburn and texas AM

Maybe we could get a computer formula, or even some competing computer formulas that we trust to do it right.

Everyone hated the BCS computers more than anything.

I remember when people were saying we needed to expand the playoffs and then that would fix everything. I waa telling them unless you expanded it to every school there would still be people upset. How many teams get into March Madness and there is STILL upset people talking about teams being robbed.

Just so we all understand, that was the joke.

 

[culdeus]

Also, I have the POV that matters - rankings are dumb. Standings are good. We're heading towards standings that mirror the NFL style of scheduling. It's just bumpy to get there.

Right, I think this is where the sport is ultimately headed. Divisions inside mega conferences. Win your division by virtue of playing every team in that division, and the record is everything. Yeah, sometimes you'll get a division winner with an awful resume but that's what the NFL has had in the past on rare occasion and that sport soldiers on.

Settle it all out on the field. Forget humans and computers. Your record says who you are. We have made this far more complicated than it needs to be.

It would be the death of conferences.... I don't think you can carry the same structure over to other sports and without football the other sports could not exist in a conference. Basketball can't carry the rest of the sports. Then again, many non-money sports are under pressure as the resources that used to be shared from football is being reinvested all into football in order to keep up with the Jonses on spending on NIL.

Eventually, everyone will carve out football, possibly basketball, and get the old conferences for most other sports. Too much money.

What year iteration of this?

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Let me make it easy for you. I don't think there should be any sort of relied upon rankings used for valuation of "good/bad" until the first of Nov. However, I know that won't fly so the least you can do is evaluate the games in the moment and under the immediate circumstances they played. It seems really dumb and lazy to simply give a team a "good" win against a team who was terrible when played but got better as the year went on.

You made it easy for me but it is still a poor position. You want half of the season not to count. And then you want a game where a team doesn't play well to not be a good win even though that is the only game they loss through the year because they didn't look good that day. It totally ignore everything about football.... like sometimes good teams play poorly because of the superior competition that they are facing or because they did not prepare or were not coached well or mentally dropped the ball or a million other things. The whole season tells you what a team is about not a game. You can't ignore the whole first half of a season because.... you think it is lazy I guess? Everything had to be taken into account to judge a team and this argument directly works against my own interests with ND. The loss to Miami is less excusable after Miami has lost games Florida St and Louisville. The loss to Texas A&M is very excusable as they are clearly one of the top three teams in the country.... and when they were losing the game this last weekend, my thought was "crap, that is going to hurt ND". I just really do not think your position is reasonable or is "football". Sorry. I don't see it.

No. The whole season counts as the rankings start in Nov. It's all taken into account then. At no point did I say not to look at all the games. You're making stuff up to avoid the obvious. Good example this year is OSU. I've asked a ton of people here and elsewhere what their "best win" is to date. Almost all of them, sans a few sane ones, say Texas. The ONLY reasons this could be justified are subjective ones. Objectively it was a terrible game and it was made clear that Texas at that time didn't belong anywhere near their ranking and that's the version of Texas OSU got. To date, there's a much stronger argument for the Washington game or Illinois game as their best win. Anyone looking back at OSU's schedule for this year saying Texas is their best win is falling victim to confirmation bias of really wrong rankings at the beginning of the year IMO. That's the stuff that needs to be avoided.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

This whole B1G versus USC and Michigan is getting really interesting. Really glad USC is saying no to this ********.

What I can’t figure out is why Oregon appears to be willing to go along with this. Agreeing to be a Tier 2 school in the conference, making less money than Penn State until 2046. Heck, at this point, why would Indiana agree to be a Tier 3 school in the Big 10???

Makes no sense. I would have reservations letting in private equity into your conference in any scenario, but arbitrarily tiering schools that will be locked in for the next 20 years is insane.

I don’t know if this Indiana thing is a flash in the pan or real but that was the same question of Oregon who arose out of complete historic mediocrity into a perennial powerhouse. Why would Indiana say yes to a tier 3 status if they could be one of the best schools in the conference the next 10 years? If you’re going to do it it should be equitable and everyone get the same amount.

I assume the schools have been arguing over share allocation over the past year or so and schools like Indiana and the other Tier 3 schools are all now on board. The point of Big Ten Enterprises is to consolidate media, marketing, sponsorship assets of all the schools and package it together to add value and attract outside capital. Some schools' brands are more valuable than others so it makes sense to have different tiers based on what each school brings to the table. Under the current proposal (which is on hold until everyone is on board), the University of California employee fund would invest $2.4 billion up front for a 20 year 10% stake in that revenue stream. Tier 1 schools (Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State) would receive approximately $190 million, Tier 2 (USC and Oregon) would get roughly $150 million, and the remaining 13 schools would receive about $110 million each. I don't think we really know what Michigan and USC's issues are, but it likely revolves around the money. I'm sure every athletic conference in the country has been having these same internal debates for at least the past year and we're going to see these deals rolling out across the board in the coming 12 months or so.

No way in hell USC should be a tier 2 school below Penn State. Like our AD said, we know the value of our brand.

No doubt. I’m about 99% certain both schools are just pushing for more money. They’ll figure it out soon enough and this deal will get done. All the lip service to idealistic notions of amateurism in college sports is hilarious, especially coming from USC and Michigan.

Do you have a link to the bolded? I haven’t read anything from USC about why they are opposing the deal other than the statement from Jen Cohen which was exceedingly vague (though we know the Tier 2 status is a non-starter). The statements from the Michigan Board of Regents has been far more pointed but seem to be focused on this simply being a terrible deal that trades the future for near term gain (it’s been characterized as a “payday loan”). I haven’t seen anything about idealistic notions of amateurism in sports but I easily could have missed it as I haven’t been following as closely as others.

I think its more a media thing than something coming directly from the schools. I'm not following it very closely either so I guess its possible the deal will fall through.

 

[Jayded]

Two wrinkles for consideration that always seem to come up around this time each year and/or when ND looks good and people start talking.....

• The NBC deal was originally offered to Oklahoma ; ND was the backup plan
• Up until payouts for CFB Playoff started, it was financially disadvantageous for ND to be an independent
  • I've long since lost the data or articles on this, but I know it was discussed many times in ND circles that had they been a member of the Big Ten or SEC, in particular, they've have made more money despite people being upset about the first bullet and assuming how much the NBC deal was relative to the media rights of those two conferences in particular.

To that second bullet, I can admit it might have since changed. But for all of the financial hate ND gets for its independence, I really do wonder at what point people will believe an institution that has forever done things "because it's tradition" might actually mean it. They like the identity of playing a random game in New York or Texas or Florida instead of solely historically being boxed into only a specific area of the country.

With the playoffs, it might just finally be additionally financially advantageous for their identity to align with their pocket books provided they can sustain a program that makes the playoffs on a semi-regular cadence.

I addressed it above. Purely based on income from their tv deal and then the ACC money, they are bringing in just about, if not more, than the B10, which has the biggest media deal pool for it's teams. B10 gives more to their teams than SEC by a decent margin... around $10 million a year more... except for the new schools. Maybe that gets lowered for all schools once those new schools are treated as equals.

Then the money in playoffs not going to the conference but going to them directly is another huge benefit.

Now this is the first I have ever heard about Oklahoma being the first choice. I did several Google searches and found nothing that stated this. I also did ChatGPT and it said it was myth.

Further, it doesn't make any sense at all. ND has the second largest fanbase that is truly national. A national TV deal for Oklahoma would be a failure for NBC because they would not be able to sell ad time in most of their markets except the greater Oklahoma area. MAYBE Oklahoma was the backup to ND if they couldn't get an agreement but I doubt it. OU and Texas were big additions to SEC to get more fanbase and more money out of their conference deal but a deal for either alone just doesn't make any sense. However, @Instinctive might have some insight on that matter. If he said this was true, I would defer to him but would be absolutely dumbfounded.

Yall asking me stuff before my time.

I'm willing to admit it if I'm wrong, but it has always been my understanding that others were explored at the time, including Oklahoma. It's been forever since those deals went down and while I'm also unable to track down evidence to prove it, I would still say my underlying point remains.

I do think there is overreaction to ND's posture being solely financial both now and historically. When they were blackballed from the Big Ten, they had to go national to try to stay viable as a program. It became their identity and they have wished to continue it as others who were previous independents (like Penn State or Miami) started to join conferences. NBC deal hit at the right time to help continue to allow for that position, etc.

But I also agree that overall I see big time college football moving to a mega-conference, maybe with divisions. I, personally, like ND's independence because I get to see them in my area from time to time, but I don't have as much of the "tradition" concern as fellow ND fans, and especially if it goes mega-conference. The Big Ten makes sense for historic rivalries and geographically if we must, but I realize I'm the outlier of ND fans who generally put their foot down about changing tradition and risking becoming "just another school" lost in the shuffle of a conference.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

@bigbottom your boys were the better team. Good win. Better days ahead for Michigan.

Send what you've got on over when you want to collect.

Really sucks that Haynes went out. That was a huge difference maker. Thanks for the friendly banter, and wager. I’ll give it some thought and link you to something (I didn’t already have one picked out!). Cheers my friend and best of luck the rest of the season.

Well, I had a bunch of ideas that were probably way worse, like a close up of Ryan Day’s smiling mug, but honestly I didn’t want to have to look at that every day in this thread. So let’s just go with this. Apologies in advance.

https://i.etsystatic.com/56541470/r/il/b6a4d1/7226849663/il_794xN.7226849663_35qx.jpg

Could be worse, could be much much better. I accept my fate and am glad the month is up before oSU makes the trip north in November.

Eta. Now i need a shower

I love it @The Longtime Lurker! You want to set a similar wager for the 11/29 game?

@Beef Ravioli Part 2 one more week. We still on for this? I'm guessing yes . I'm pretty confident oSU has no answer for playing at the Big House so straight up works for me.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

What is missing from all the coach talk for replacements and the like is the mention of Sanders. I've been in/out of the weekly shows for a few weeks now and I think I've heard him mentioned once or twice. After the fanfare he received here and throughout the country when he went to Colorado, I thought he'd be brought up more.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

@bigbottom your boys were the better team. Good win. Better days ahead for Michigan.

Send what you've got on over when you want to collect.

Really sucks that Haynes went out. That was a huge difference maker. Thanks for the friendly banter, and wager. I’ll give it some thought and link you to something (I didn’t already have one picked out!). Cheers my friend and best of luck the rest of the season.

Well, I had a bunch of ideas that were probably way worse, like a close up of Ryan Day’s smiling mug, but honestly I didn’t want to have to look at that every day in this thread. So let’s just go with this. Apologies in advance.

https://i.etsystatic.com/56541470/r/il/b6a4d1/7226849663/il_794xN.7226849663_35qx.jpg

Could be worse, could be much much better. I accept my fate and am glad the month is up before oSU makes the trip north in November.

Eta. Now i need a shower

I love it @The Longtime Lurker! You want to set a similar wager for the 11/29 game?

@Beef Ravioli Part 2 one more week. We still on for this? I'm guessing yes . I'm pretty confident oSU has no answer for playing at the Big House so straight up works for me.

GL to you GB. This is a bigger hill to climb this year than last and I didn't think they got bigger than what they faced last year. All that youth. All the injuries. BTW, what's the word on Marshall? Does he play or are they rolling third string walk on type? Freshman line will have their hands full. But there's always a good chance Day craps the bed and short circuits again.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

@bigbottom your boys were the better team. Good win. Better days ahead for Michigan.

Send what you've got on over when you want to collect.

Really sucks that Haynes went out. That was a huge difference maker. Thanks for the friendly banter, and wager. I’ll give it some thought and link you to something (I didn’t already have one picked out!). Cheers my friend and best of luck the rest of the season.

Well, I had a bunch of ideas that were probably way worse, like a close up of Ryan Day’s smiling mug, but honestly I didn’t want to have to look at that every day in this thread. So let’s just go with this. Apologies in advance.

https://i.etsystatic.com/56541470/r/il/b6a4d1/7226849663/il_794xN.7226849663_35qx.jpg

Could be worse, could be much much better. I accept my fate and am glad the month is up before oSU makes the trip north in November.

Eta. Now i need a shower

I love it @The Longtime Lurker! You want to set a similar wager for the 11/29 game?

@Beef Ravioli Part 2 one more week. We still on for this? I'm guessing yes . I'm pretty confident oSU has no answer for playing at the Big House so straight up works for me.

GL to you GB. This is a bigger hill to climb this year than last and I didn't think they got bigger than what they faced last year. All that youth. All the injuries. BTW, what's the word on Marshall? Does he play or are they rolling third string walk on type? Freshman line will have their hands full. But there's always a good chance Day craps the bed and short circuits again.

I'm gonna disagree that it's a bigger hill than last year when a forward pass was damn near impossible and it was played in Columbus. It's still quite the climb, but until proved otherwise oSU isn't going to march into Ann Arbor and walk out with anything easy. Day has a Michigan problem and I'm here for it until he proves otherwise.

You make good points as to the challenges and we'll see if it's too much. Marshall sounds likely to play next week, this week probably not.

Regardless I. Can. Not. Wait. I know how badly Day needs this and every part of me wants to watch him fail one more time.

GO BLUE!!!!

 

[identikit]

What is missing from all the coach talk for replacements and the like is the mention of Sanders. I've been in/out of the weekly shows for a few weeks now and I think I've heard him mentioned once or twice. After the fanfare he received here and throughout the country when he went to Colorado, I thought he'd be brought up more.

I'm of the mind that most top-tier programs recognize the hype vs the reality of Coach Sanders

More desperate programs may want that.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

@bigbottom your boys were the better team. Good win. Better days ahead for Michigan.

Send what you've got on over when you want to collect.

Really sucks that Haynes went out. That was a huge difference maker. Thanks for the friendly banter, and wager. I’ll give it some thought and link you to something (I didn’t already have one picked out!). Cheers my friend and best of luck the rest of the season.

Well, I had a bunch of ideas that were probably way worse, like a close up of Ryan Day’s smiling mug, but honestly I didn’t want to have to look at that every day in this thread. So let’s just go with this. Apologies in advance.

https://i.etsystatic.com/56541470/r/il/b6a4d1/7226849663/il_794xN.7226849663_35qx.jpg

Could be worse, could be much much better. I accept my fate and am glad the month is up before oSU makes the trip north in November.

Eta. Now i need a shower

I love it @The Longtime Lurker! You want to set a similar wager for the 11/29 game?

@Beef Ravioli Part 2 one more week. We still on for this? I'm guessing yes . I'm pretty confident oSU has no answer for playing at the Big House so straight up works for me.

GL to you GB. This is a bigger hill to climb this year than last and I didn't think they got bigger than what they faced last year. All that youth. All the injuries. BTW, what's the word on Marshall? Does he play or are they rolling third string walk on type? Freshman line will have their hands full. But there's always a good chance Day craps the bed and short circuits again.

I'm gonna disagree that it's a bigger hill than last year when a forward pass was damn near impossible and it was played in Columbus. It's still quite the climb, but until proved otherwise oSU isn't going to march into Ann Arbor and walk out with anything easy. Day has a Michigan problem and I'm here for it until he proves otherwise.

You make good points as to the challenges and we'll see if it's too much. Marshall sounds likely to play next week, this week probably not.

Regardless I. Can. Not. Wait. I know how badly Day needs this and every part of me wants to watch him fail one more time.

GO BLUE!!!!

Im all in if Day decides to try and "tough" it out. If they let 19 be a factor in the run game, it changes things greatly

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

@bigbottom your boys were the better team. Good win. Better days ahead for Michigan.

Send what you've got on over when you want to collect.

Really sucks that Haynes went out. That was a huge difference maker. Thanks for the friendly banter, and wager. I’ll give it some thought and link you to something (I didn’t already have one picked out!). Cheers my friend and best of luck the rest of the season.

Well, I had a bunch of ideas that were probably way worse, like a close up of Ryan Day’s smiling mug, but honestly I didn’t want to have to look at that every day in this thread. So let’s just go with this. Apologies in advance.

https://i.etsystatic.com/56541470/r/il/b6a4d1/7226849663/il_794xN.7226849663_35qx.jpg

Could be worse, could be much much better. I accept my fate and am glad the month is up before oSU makes the trip north in November.

Eta. Now i need a shower

I love it @The Longtime Lurker! You want to set a similar wager for the 11/29 game?

@Beef Ravioli Part 2 one more week. We still on for this? I'm guessing yes . I'm pretty confident oSU has no answer for playing at the Big House so straight up works for me.

I’m in!

 

[Moe.]

OU is in serious trouble today

 

[Osaurus]

OU is in serious trouble today

Sure looks like it so far. Tough sledding

 

[Osaurus]

….and then again….

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

If they let 19 be a factor in the run game, it changes things greatly

They get through today mostly intact and I want to see this. I believe they've held Underwood back all year with regard to using his legs. I'm sure there's a plan for his long term development, but cut him loose and win the game by any means necessary.

 

[Jayded]

I’m convinced this schedule week for many in the SEC is why the conference builds up the toughness.

The media and fans would rake them over the coals for these bye games if they didn’t hold the toughness impression.

 

[GregR]

Samford? Are they letting FBS teams play JUCO schools now?

 

[crushedspirit]

Looks like easy targeting call, lowered his head and launched

Dumb hit

 

[crushedspirit]

Coleman had a chance to make a game of it

 

[Chadstroma]

14-0 ND
Haven't even had the ball on offense yet.

 

[Chadstroma]

Samford? Are they letting FBS teams play JUCO schools now?

Only SEC teams because it just means more

 

[Insein]

Anyone see this UAB story? Apparently a player stabbed 2 of his teammates before their game today.

UAB football players stabbed by teammate at team facility, per reports

The two injured players are in stable condition, the school said

www.cbssports.com

 

[Chadstroma]

21-0 ND STILL hasn't had the ball on offense

 

[crushedspirit]

USC offense came out firing

Lemon is fun to watch

 

[Chadstroma]

Two plays on offense... 28-0

 

[crushedspirit]

Nice response by the Ducks

This game shaping up

 

[Chadstroma]

1st Q over...
35-0.

ND ran 7 offensive plays.

 

[Jayded]

1st Q over...
35-0.

ND ran 7 offensive plays.

8 for 42-0 now

 

[dickey moe]

What a catch

 

[Major]

Decent start for the Irish

 

[Jayded]

Decent start for the Irish

Literally the best first half ever in team history. Previous was 45-0 in the 1970s.

Yup, it’s 3-7 Syracuse, but that’s what you need to do against a team like that.

 

[AAABatteries]

Well, that was incredibly stupid

 

[NutterButter]

1st Q over...
35-0.

ND ran 7 offensive plays.

Embarrassing they couldn't punch it in from 3 yards to make it 42