Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
2025 Detroit Lions: 0-0 Draft, FAs, trades? (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Calendar of Events - Now until Week 1:
OTA 1 5/24 - 5/26
OTA 2 6/1 - 6/3
Mandatory Minicamp 6/5 - 6/7
OTA 3 6/13 - 6/16
Training Camp* 7/26 - 8/16
Open TC To Season Ticket Holders* 7/30
Family Fest* 8/8
Hard Knocks Ep 1 8/9
Preseason Game 1 8/12
Open TC To Season Ticket Holders* 8/16
Hard Knocks Ep 2* 8/16
Preseason Game 2 8/20
Hard Knocks Ep 3* 8/23
Preseason Game 3 8/28
Hard Knocks Ep 4* 8/30
Hard Knocks Ep 5 9/6
WEEK ONE Game 9/11
*estimated based on prior years
OTA 1 5/24 - 5/26
OTA 2 6/1 - 6/3
Mandatory Minicamp 6/5 - 6/7
OTA 3 6/13 - 6/16
Training Camp* 7/26 - 8/16
Open TC To Season Ticket Holders* 7/30
Family Fest* 8/8
Hard Knocks Ep 1 8/9
Preseason Game 1 8/12
Open TC To Season Ticket Holders* 8/16
Hard Knocks Ep 2* 8/16
Preseason Game 2 8/20
Hard Knocks Ep 3* 8/23
Preseason Game 3 8/28
Hard Knocks Ep 4* 8/30
Hard Knocks Ep 5 9/6
WEEK ONE Game 9/11
*estimated based on prior years
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Moonlight
Footballguy
I'm expecting major improvement. The Lions having been unlucky and getting jobbed in the past can make one cautious. But I think that when you play with confidence, optimism and purpose those things turn around. Its rubs off on how others see you as well.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Peter King (I know, he’s a buffoon) came out with his early Power Rankings yesterday.
20. Detroit (3-13-1, out of the playoffs)
I did some reporting on the Lions in Detroit this month, and I’m higher on them than most. Consider how hard they played in a disastrous rookie year of coach Dan Campbell, and how, despite winning only three games, they were 11-6 against the spread, indicative of a team outperforming expectations. Consider a schedule that includes eight games against the NFL’s netherworld (Giants, Jets, Carolina, Jacksonville, Washington, Seattle, Chicago, Chicago). Consider a team that entered December winless and finished 3-3, though the last one was against the Pack playing out the string. “There’s a lot of reasons for us to be very optimistic,” Jared Goff told me this month, “and I can tell you the guys in the locker room are feeling good about our chances.” Of course, it’s Goff who has to be more productive for the Lions to play meaningful December football, and to stave off the team looking for a new quarterback in 2023. This is one of the most interesting teams in football—and, their starved fans hope, for the right reasons.
I don’t really care about all the media bandwagoners. I mean they have to justify their existence somehow. Slow news day other than OTA 1. But man, could we wait to see if they’ve learned how to win games before we move them up 9 spots?
NFL Power Rankings
20. Detroit (3-13-1, out of the playoffs)
I did some reporting on the Lions in Detroit this month, and I’m higher on them than most. Consider how hard they played in a disastrous rookie year of coach Dan Campbell, and how, despite winning only three games, they were 11-6 against the spread, indicative of a team outperforming expectations. Consider a schedule that includes eight games against the NFL’s netherworld (Giants, Jets, Carolina, Jacksonville, Washington, Seattle, Chicago, Chicago). Consider a team that entered December winless and finished 3-3, though the last one was against the Pack playing out the string. “There’s a lot of reasons for us to be very optimistic,” Jared Goff told me this month, “and I can tell you the guys in the locker room are feeling good about our chances.” Of course, it’s Goff who has to be more productive for the Lions to play meaningful December football, and to stave off the team looking for a new quarterback in 2023. This is one of the most interesting teams in football—and, their starved fans hope, for the right reasons.
I don’t really care about all the media bandwagoners. I mean they have to justify their existence somehow. Slow news day other than OTA 1. But man, could we wait to see if they’ve learned how to win games before we move them up 9 spots?
NFL Power Rankings
Last edited by a moderator:
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
Is this offense going to surprise people next year? Jameson Williams, AMSB, Swift, Hock is a talented skill position group. Even Chark is a solid WR3. The Oline was above average last year. I'm thinking about trying to acquire Goff cheaply in some 2qb dynasty leagues.
I know no one views them as a playoff team but I think they could be the 2nd best team in their division. It feels weird thinking that the Lions are headed in the right direction.
I know no one views them as a playoff team but I think they could be the 2nd best team in their division. It feels weird thinking that the Lions are headed in the right direction.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I mentioned Goff in another thread as a possible cheap QB2 in a redraft league. They project to be behind a lot so lots of junk time yards. As far as dynasty he has 3 years left but could be cut after this year if he flames out. Goff pretty much controls his own destiny, the more games he loses the higher the draft pick that could replace him. But for this year he should be safe as there is nobody behind him.Wise Old Owl said:
Moonlight
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
[Birkett] Campbell on the competition at LB this summer: "It’s going to be a bloodbath in there. There’s a ton of experience. There’s a ton of youth. There’s a ton of energy."
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Up until 9 months ago this slacker was writing for The Aspen Times (circulation: 11,500.)
Off to a flying start at Deadspin,
related tweet (low effort & lazy reporting)
***************
HFS the dude can’t read soccer tables
****************
He’s not exactly crushing life so #### off then eh.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
[Twentyman] DC Aaron Glenn mentioned Alim McNeill, Amani Oruwariye and Charles Harris as guys he’s really excited about heading into the season.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
PFF: Lions have a Top 3 offensive line
No doubt there is talent. They’ve invested a lot of draft capital at both OT, Pro Bowl caliber at C and LG, big $$ FA at RG.
Of course it’s often times more about staying healthy and jelling as a unit. Hope all the pundits are right. This is probably the strongest position group on the roster.
No doubt there is talent. They’ve invested a lot of draft capital at both OT, Pro Bowl caliber at C and LG, big $$ FA at RG.
Of course it’s often times more about staying healthy and jelling as a unit. Hope all the pundits are right. This is probably the strongest position group on the roster.
FairWarning
Footballguy
I don’t know what to make of them, but the division has taken a major step back. can get to 9 wins,? 7-8 is a possibility with the schedule.
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Grand Marshall of the 2022 Detroit Grand Prix goes for a ride around the circuit
MCDC last year, #58 this year
MCDC last year, #58 this year
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Most people would call that reasonable progress for Y2 of a top to bottom rebuild, right? They’re not really under pressure to contend fir the division. Personally I think they have enough weapons to have a decent offensive output.
The key will be the defense IMO. We love the DC and have some outstanding people on staff, but the players have to step up.
Last year we lost four games on the final play because in the closing minutes or seconds we could not get A stop - v BAL, @ MIN, @ CLE, & CHI. We lost three more where we got blown out & played like poo from the get go (PHI, @ DEN & @ SEA.) Week 1 @ SF was another blowout but garbage time made it look closer. Two more losses vs good teams on the road where we outplayed them in the first half (@ GB + @ LAR) but the D fell apart after the half.
You can woulda coulda shoulda your way to 17-0, that’s not realistic. But just marginally better defense, with consistent pressure, and some of those ten losses turn into wins.
Pressure on the QB. Great Edge plays makes everyone else’s responsibility so much easier.
Detroit has a top 5 offensive line and they’ve invested heavily in the defensive line. I love the way they are constructing this roster.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Successful rebuilds since I became a fan in 1967:
1967-70
HoF MLB Joe Schmidt was only 35, two years removed from his final game, when he took over a depleted team that had won only 10 games the previous two seasons. The first couple drafts were astonishing.
Y1 - produced both the ORotY and the DRoptY (RB Mel Farr and HoF CB Lem Barney), along with Paul Naumoff and Mike Weger. Though Farr was often injured, he was dynamic whenever he was healthy in his 7 years. Weger was the starting SS for 6 years (68-73), and anytime you find a 10 year player in the 9th round, that is a huge value in any era. Barney and Naumoff were both 11 year starters. Tremendous foundation draft.
Y2 - franchise QB in Greg Landry (only Lions PB quarterback between Layne and Stafford), speedy Earl McCullouch - a four year starter - and a HoF TE in Charlie Sanders in the 3rd round.
Y3 - despite not having a 1st round pick, they picked a 6 year starting RB in Altie Taylor, a 9 year starting OT, Jim Yarborough, a 7 year starter at WR (Larry Walton), and a solid starting G in the 9th round, Rock Rasley.
After two losing years (5-7-2 & 4-8-2), the Lions finished 1969 by going 6-1-1 over their final 8 years games. They started (5-1) and finished (5-0) 1970 strong, but a 3 game losing streak in the middle relegated them to the first NFC Wild Card game, which they lost in Dallas 5-0.
Schmidt had two more winning seasons (7-6-1 & 8-5-1) but never saw the postseason again. He quit in frustration after the [1972] season. “The job no longer is fun; I don't enjoy coaching anymore. It has gotten to be more burden than fun."
There have been 14 Lions Head Coaches since Joe Schmidt (plus three interim HC), and only one left town with a winning record: Jim Caldwell (36-28-0.)
Eight of them were unmitigated disasters.
1973 Don McCafferty - died in TC one year into the job.
1974-76 Rick Forzano - was in over his head, a losing college coach who had no business being a NFL HC. WTH, it was late July, somebody has to do it. Best accomplishment was giving a 24 year Bill Belichick his first full time gig.
1976-77 Tommy Hudspeth - deja vu all over again. 4 games into the season they give the gig to a losing college coach who was the director of scouting. Nane snothef franchise that picks coaches more haphazardly.
1978-1984 Monte Clark. How do you keep your job for 7 years when the peak is 9-7 (x2)?
1985-88 Darryl Rogers. Hey, let’s try a winning college coach instead. At least this guy was honest. “What the hell do you have to do around here to get fired?” he asked reporters when his record was 18-40. #truestory
1988-1996 Wayne Fontes. “Players coach” was a euphemism. Wasn’t the most organized guy. Everybody loved him though. Winningest HC in franchise history at 66-67. Again, #truestory
1997-2000 Bobby Ross. Squeezed a couple playoff berths out of a group of underachievers, the second after Barry retired unexpectedly at the beginning of TC. Like Schmidt & Forzano, quit in frustration at not being able to change the culture. SOL
2001-2008 Mornhinweg - Mariucci - Marinelli plus a couple interims. ####### Matt Millen. #### everything about him. ####### ####.
Monte Clark and Bobby Ross at least got to the playoffs twice riding the two best RBs the franchise has ever seen, going 0-4 collectively [in the postseason] - all as road teams. Other than the magical one for the thumb campaign of 1991, Fontes lost 4 first round playoff games (3 as the WC road team.)
Caldwell was the only HC who inherited a roster that was ready to be competitive.
Which leaves us with Jim Schwartz and Dan Campbell, the only true rebuilds from scratch the Lions have attempted in the last 50 years.
2009-2011
Y1 - Martin Mayhew's first team (built entirely by his mentor, Matt Millen) went 0-16. His first four picks in the Schwartz era were Stafford, Brandon Pettigrew, Louis Delmas, and DeAndre Levy. Best franchise QB they ever had plus three guys who put in 18 years as starters. Pettigrew never quite lived up to his draft capital but he was a decent TE. Delmas, when healthy, was a terrific S. Levy is probably the Lions best LB of the millenium.
Y2 - Good new, bad news. Suh was a great player for 5 years with four Pro Bowls and three 1st Team All Pro years. But incredibly bad timing for the Lions - Stafford and Suh were the last two draft classes before the rookie wage scale. Detroit made a competitive offer to keep #90 but he made a business decision. He's been a good but not great player since leaving the D. The oh what might have been 2nd round pick, Jahvid Best (22 G career) was the only other player of any value. Terrible draft.
Y3 - Nick Fairley, Titus Young, and Mikel Leshoure were all taken in the first 57 picks. The first rounder was underwhelming all but one season. The two second rounders were both tragic figures, one for mental illness/CTE, the other for his string of injuries. Both played only 2 seasons. No other notable picks....HTH did Mayhew keep his job another 4 years? He had a few other hits in his next 4 drafts (notably 2013) but was very inconsistent.
He did make sine good FA signings. Kyle Vanden Bosch, Nate Burleson, Rashean Mathis, Reggie Bush, Glover Quinn, Golden Tate, Steven Tulloch, Matt Prater, et al. Sheesh no wonder we never got compensatory picks.
Schwartz went 2-14 with no expectations, 6-10 with Stafford missing all but three years games, and then 10-6 in Matthew's first healthy season - albeit after starting 5-0. First round WC loss to the Saints, who had zero punts. Two more losing seasons (4-12 and 7-9) in which they finished 0-8 and 1-6. The latter was especially galling as they were 6-3, in first place, and the other three starting QBs in the division missed 5-7 games each.
Caldwell inherited a ready made team. After posting three winning seasons in his four year tenure, he was replaced because 9-7 wasn't good enough. We will not mention his successor by name.
That's it when it comes to rebuilds in my 56 seasons as a Lions fan. Every other team was "we have no idea what we're trying to get done", or slapping band aids on teams because we had a few playmakers that put butts in the seats.
***************
Brad Holmes and MCDC are not only the rare complete rebuild - 3 in six decades - they are also perhaps the only time this franchise has gone about it's business the right way.
I don't really have to recap last year and this one. Holmes pulled off a monster trade and has killed the draft two years in a row. He has done a good job with UDFAs and low price FAs (Jamaal being the only one who wasn't a one-year prove it deal.) They've only just begun with roster construction but already you can see there is a solid foundation. They have a very clear vision: build from the inside out. The investment in the O-line and the D-line is really unprecedented. There's not another era in Lions history where we have built up both lines simultaneously.
Overall, the draft strategy has seen two years of drafting productive players with a high RAS. Get the athletes, get your guys, and let the staff coach 'em up.
MCDC is leadership personified. He attracted a great staff. Made a bold move last year putting A Lynn on the shelf and taking the reins of the offense. Handled their internal business quietly, and the offense showed genuine improvement despite a rash of injuries and overall lack of talent on the roster. Fought hard every game.
I have never been so optimistic about the direction of the franchise.
Sooner or later all that positivity has to translate into wins. Right now they're a 3.5 win team with a bright future. I think they can be competitive this year and play meaningful games in December, but probably 6-8 wins will be enough to call Year 2 a success.
That said, almost one third of the league's franchises have seen a one year turnaround of 8 or 9 games. Why can't that be us? Why can't that be this year?
Not saying it has to be, and I'm not expecting it. But if this truly is a special HC then it would be super awesome if just one freaking time they did something extraordinary.
1967-70
HoF MLB Joe Schmidt was only 35, two years removed from his final game, when he took over a depleted team that had won only 10 games the previous two seasons. The first couple drafts were astonishing.
Y1 - produced both the ORotY and the DRoptY (RB Mel Farr and HoF CB Lem Barney), along with Paul Naumoff and Mike Weger. Though Farr was often injured, he was dynamic whenever he was healthy in his 7 years. Weger was the starting SS for 6 years (68-73), and anytime you find a 10 year player in the 9th round, that is a huge value in any era. Barney and Naumoff were both 11 year starters. Tremendous foundation draft.
Y2 - franchise QB in Greg Landry (only Lions PB quarterback between Layne and Stafford), speedy Earl McCullouch - a four year starter - and a HoF TE in Charlie Sanders in the 3rd round.
Y3 - despite not having a 1st round pick, they picked a 6 year starting RB in Altie Taylor, a 9 year starting OT, Jim Yarborough, a 7 year starter at WR (Larry Walton), and a solid starting G in the 9th round, Rock Rasley.
After two losing years (5-7-2 & 4-8-2), the Lions finished 1969 by going 6-1-1 over their final 8 years games. They started (5-1) and finished (5-0) 1970 strong, but a 3 game losing streak in the middle relegated them to the first NFC Wild Card game, which they lost in Dallas 5-0.
Schmidt had two more winning seasons (7-6-1 & 8-5-1) but never saw the postseason again. He quit in frustration after the [1972] season. “The job no longer is fun; I don't enjoy coaching anymore. It has gotten to be more burden than fun."
There have been 14 Lions Head Coaches since Joe Schmidt (plus three interim HC), and only one left town with a winning record: Jim Caldwell (36-28-0.)
Eight of them were unmitigated disasters.
1973 Don McCafferty - died in TC one year into the job.
1974-76 Rick Forzano - was in over his head, a losing college coach who had no business being a NFL HC. WTH, it was late July, somebody has to do it. Best accomplishment was giving a 24 year Bill Belichick his first full time gig.
1976-77 Tommy Hudspeth - deja vu all over again. 4 games into the season they give the gig to a losing college coach who was the director of scouting. Nane snothef franchise that picks coaches more haphazardly.
1978-1984 Monte Clark. How do you keep your job for 7 years when the peak is 9-7 (x2)?
1985-88 Darryl Rogers. Hey, let’s try a winning college coach instead. At least this guy was honest. “What the hell do you have to do around here to get fired?” he asked reporters when his record was 18-40. #truestory
1988-1996 Wayne Fontes. “Players coach” was a euphemism. Wasn’t the most organized guy. Everybody loved him though. Winningest HC in franchise history at 66-67. Again, #truestory
1997-2000 Bobby Ross. Squeezed a couple playoff berths out of a group of underachievers, the second after Barry retired unexpectedly at the beginning of TC. Like Schmidt & Forzano, quit in frustration at not being able to change the culture. SOL
2001-2008 Mornhinweg - Mariucci - Marinelli plus a couple interims. ####### Matt Millen. #### everything about him. ####### ####.
Monte Clark and Bobby Ross at least got to the playoffs twice riding the two best RBs the franchise has ever seen, going 0-4 collectively [in the postseason] - all as road teams. Other than the magical one for the thumb campaign of 1991, Fontes lost 4 first round playoff games (3 as the WC road team.)
Caldwell was the only HC who inherited a roster that was ready to be competitive.
Which leaves us with Jim Schwartz and Dan Campbell, the only true rebuilds from scratch the Lions have attempted in the last 50 years.
2009-2011
Y1 - Martin Mayhew's first team (built entirely by his mentor, Matt Millen) went 0-16. His first four picks in the Schwartz era were Stafford, Brandon Pettigrew, Louis Delmas, and DeAndre Levy. Best franchise QB they ever had plus three guys who put in 18 years as starters. Pettigrew never quite lived up to his draft capital but he was a decent TE. Delmas, when healthy, was a terrific S. Levy is probably the Lions best LB of the millenium.
Y2 - Good new, bad news. Suh was a great player for 5 years with four Pro Bowls and three 1st Team All Pro years. But incredibly bad timing for the Lions - Stafford and Suh were the last two draft classes before the rookie wage scale. Detroit made a competitive offer to keep #90 but he made a business decision. He's been a good but not great player since leaving the D. The oh what might have been 2nd round pick, Jahvid Best (22 G career) was the only other player of any value. Terrible draft.
Y3 - Nick Fairley, Titus Young, and Mikel Leshoure were all taken in the first 57 picks. The first rounder was underwhelming all but one season. The two second rounders were both tragic figures, one for mental illness/CTE, the other for his string of injuries. Both played only 2 seasons. No other notable picks....HTH did Mayhew keep his job another 4 years? He had a few other hits in his next 4 drafts (notably 2013) but was very inconsistent.
He did make sine good FA signings. Kyle Vanden Bosch, Nate Burleson, Rashean Mathis, Reggie Bush, Glover Quinn, Golden Tate, Steven Tulloch, Matt Prater, et al. Sheesh no wonder we never got compensatory picks.
Schwartz went 2-14 with no expectations, 6-10 with Stafford missing all but three years games, and then 10-6 in Matthew's first healthy season - albeit after starting 5-0. First round WC loss to the Saints, who had zero punts. Two more losing seasons (4-12 and 7-9) in which they finished 0-8 and 1-6. The latter was especially galling as they were 6-3, in first place, and the other three starting QBs in the division missed 5-7 games each.
Caldwell inherited a ready made team. After posting three winning seasons in his four year tenure, he was replaced because 9-7 wasn't good enough. We will not mention his successor by name.
That's it when it comes to rebuilds in my 56 seasons as a Lions fan. Every other team was "we have no idea what we're trying to get done", or slapping band aids on teams because we had a few playmakers that put butts in the seats.
***************
Brad Holmes and MCDC are not only the rare complete rebuild - 3 in six decades - they are also perhaps the only time this franchise has gone about it's business the right way.
I don't really have to recap last year and this one. Holmes pulled off a monster trade and has killed the draft two years in a row. He has done a good job with UDFAs and low price FAs (Jamaal being the only one who wasn't a one-year prove it deal.) They've only just begun with roster construction but already you can see there is a solid foundation. They have a very clear vision: build from the inside out. The investment in the O-line and the D-line is really unprecedented. There's not another era in Lions history where we have built up both lines simultaneously.
Overall, the draft strategy has seen two years of drafting productive players with a high RAS. Get the athletes, get your guys, and let the staff coach 'em up.
MCDC is leadership personified. He attracted a great staff. Made a bold move last year putting A Lynn on the shelf and taking the reins of the offense. Handled their internal business quietly, and the offense showed genuine improvement despite a rash of injuries and overall lack of talent on the roster. Fought hard every game.
I have never been so optimistic about the direction of the franchise.
Sooner or later all that positivity has to translate into wins. Right now they're a 3.5 win team with a bright future. I think they can be competitive this year and play meaningful games in December, but probably 6-8 wins will be enough to call Year 2 a success.
That said, almost one third of the league's franchises have seen a one year turnaround of 8 or 9 games. Why can't that be us? Why can't that be this year?
Not saying it has to be, and I'm not expecting it. But if this truly is a special HC then it would be super awesome if just one freaking time they did something extraordinary.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Antoine Randal-El’s reaction to the Lions drafting Jamo
Took long enough - team finally uploaded Inside the Den Episide 4: Behind the Scenes of the 2022 Lions Draft day tonight
Took long enough - team finally uploaded Inside the Den Episide 4: Behind the Scenes of the 2022 Lions Draft day tonight
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
NFC North Division Champions 1994-2021 (28 years)
(neé NFC Central 1976-2001)
(neé NFC Central 1976-2001)
- Green Bay 15 (1995-97, 2002-04, 2007, 2011-14, 2016, 2019-21)
- Minnesota 7 (1994, 1998, 2000, 2008-09, 2015, 2017)
- Chicago 5 (2001, 2005-06, 2010, 2018)
- Tampa Bay 1 (1999)
- Detroit
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
My divisional skills when it comes to divisions tell me that an average team should have won it's division about 7 times in that time span.
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
From 1994-2001 there were 5 teams.My divisional skills when it comes to divisions tell me that an average team should have won it's division about 7 times in that time span.
8x5=40
From 2002-2021 there were 4 teams.
20x4=80
120 / 28 = 4.28571429
28 / 4.28571429 = 6.533
(rounding to nearest whole number)
7
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Cross posted from the Jamo thread:
New PUP/NFI rules issued May 26 allows players to return after 4 weeks instead of the previous 6 weeks.
New PUP/NFI rules issued May 26 allows players to return after 4 weeks instead of the previous 6 weeks.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Lions rookie receiving records:
Receptions 90 ARSB
Yards 912 ARSB
Touchdowns 8 RoY Williams
OBJ 12 G rookie season (missed 1st 4)
91-1305-12
Randy Moss
69-1313-17
**************
Anyway, yeah, 40-500-5 would be amazing
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Challenge: Rank the Lions Position Groups
1. OL
2. RB
3. TE
4. WR
5. DB
6. DL
7. P/PK
8. QB
9. LB
WHADDAYATHINK
1. OL
2. RB
3. TE
4. WR
5. DB
6. DL
7. P/PK
8. QB
9. LB
WHADDAYATHINK
I think our WR group is our 2nd best unit once Williams get healthy. IMHO, Amon-Ra, Chark and Williams are all pro-bowl caliber talent. I also see our DL group being higher, maybe even being our 3rd best group. But we have not seen the full potential of Alim and what Hutch can do yet in an NFL game. But that is my projection as them being the strength of the defense.
I also think Goff is better than the narrative around him, especially with the disrespect he gets from the national media. Even the local media is pretty harsh on him and everyone expects him to be replaced in the next draft. With the weapons and protection he has, Goff is going to be near the top in most categories. I am buying into the Ben Johnson hype that he will be the next NFL Guru and Goff will be the biggest beneficiary. I think Goff is here to stay.
Last edited by a moderator:
The latest Inside the Den video of the last draft was awesome. It is great to see such a competent group of people running the team. The dedication, enthusiasm, the football knowledge is a thing of beauty. Last years draft was easily a top 3 Lions draft. This year's draft is even going to be better assuming full recoveries from injuries. Sheila bringing in Brad and Dan. Dan bringing in outstanding coaches. Brad executing drafts as well as anyone and putting us in great shape with the cap. You see so much SOL crap on the interwebs, but damn if you are paying attention, this is the exact opposite of SOL.
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Agree on all points. But until Jamo is in the lineup and playing the way we expect him to, I can’t that higher yet. Still, the WR room was probably 8th or 9th a year - kudos to Holmes.
Alim is gonna make a big leap forward this year IMO.
Very excited about Ben Johnson. Def one the most respected young minds in the game.
IDK if Goff is the long term answer. I would say they are not undermining or limiting him in any way. They are moving forward with the belief he deserves to have the chance to work with the talent upgrades and the new offense should give him a schematic advantage.
What I love most about this team is the commitment to invest heavily in both lines. The O line should be a Top 5 unit. The D line has to prove it on the field but man have we got great depth Edge to Edge,
Last year we ran more Dime than Nickel, and more 4-2-5 than the “base.” LB is devalued in today’s game. But I think the rookie Rodriguez is going to end up being a steal.
DB should be a solid group IF Jerry Jacobs & Jeff Okudah both come back 100% (ACL, Achilles.) Good reports which is encouraging but means nothing until they get on the field.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Good vibes are awesome
Dubs are better
Dubs are better
For the casual fan that is true. But if you are watching tape and seeing interviews, you have to be excited and impressed with these kids. The level of talent that you see in Hutch, Jamo, Amon-Ra, and Penei is off the charts and then to watch their character and just how dedicated they are to being the absolute best is refreshing. They absolutely love and live football.
I get that Detroit football has a pathetic 60 year history and fans are skeptical. But this organization from top to bottom has never been so good. The wins are coming and it is going to be fun watching the team blossom into a juggernaut.
The DB group could be the biggest surprise. There is some good NFL level talent. Okudah still has a ton of potential. It helps to have Aubrey Pleasent. I am sold on them being good. Just not great.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
it’s a real shame Jacobs tore up his knee, he was an outstanding rookiejon_mx said:
feels like they’re trying to make them all be versatile. Iffy getting reps at S - even though with his length his long term upside would be as a press corner. Harris working at CB again this spring after finishing last year as a slot corner (he’s been a horrendous S.) Elliot should be an upgrade at SS, Walker was a very good resigning, Oruwariye is a stud, Parker is very capable.
def potential but they’ll only be great if we generate more pressure than we did last year.
That is a good point. Having an improved line will be a huge help to the secondary. As a group the defense will make a big leap from being a 30th ranked defense to a mid-tier unit. I think next year's draft will remain heavily focused on defense. Also we can start using the cap space to attract a shut-down corner (wish we still had Slay...f-ing Fatrica). The biggest worry will be who replaces Aaron Glenn.
Last edited by a moderator:
Seriously, if you have not watched this Packers fan reaction to the Jameson pick, it is must see TV. Will make your day.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
He seems pretty sharp. None of the Lions podcasts had the Lions going after Jameson, while he nailed it. That call may have been out of fear, but he saw the pick coming. Also while much of the national media was going on how much the Lions gave up, he correctly pointed out the Lions hardly gave up anything to move up. But the end where he blames the Vikings and declares them the 'purple incarnation of satan b-tards' is a classic.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
PFF Offensive Line rankings
3. DETROIT LIONS
Projected Starting Lineup
LT: Taylor Decker
LG: Jonah Jackson
C: Frank Ragnow
RG: Halapoulivaati Vaitai
RT: Penei Sewell
With three first-rounders, a third-rounder and a highly paid free agent along their offensive line, the Lions look primed to recoup big time on their investments in 2022. They not only have high-end talent in Frank Ragnow and Penei Sewell, who both can be top-five players at their respective positions, but they also don’t have any glaring holes. Big V was the unit's lowest-graded starter last season, and he still earned a 68.4 overall mark.
3. DETROIT LIONS
Projected Starting Lineup
LT: Taylor Decker
LG: Jonah Jackson
C: Frank Ragnow
RG: Halapoulivaati Vaitai
RT: Penei Sewell
With three first-rounders, a third-rounder and a highly paid free agent along their offensive line, the Lions look primed to recoup big time on their investments in 2022. They not only have high-end talent in Frank Ragnow and Penei Sewell, who both can be top-five players at their respective positions, but they also don’t have any glaring holes. Big V was the unit's lowest-graded starter last season, and he still earned a 68.4 overall mark.
The Captain
Footballguy
Moonlight
Footballguy
I'd rank these groups based on past performance and potential future performance.
I think that RBs are ranked much too highly and as part of this believe that RB will be seen as a major need going into next year's offseason. Swift's 4.1 ypc and Williams 3.9 ypc are meh. Swift's inability to run between the tackles and William's lack of elusiveness and inability to run outside the tackles limit this group. Swift has some big play ability but is always nicked and usually limited by some type of injury. Tho Swift has shown better in the passing game he has not been outstanding. The other RBs have all shown some potential in limited samples and may improve the running game. Also the UDFA Bell is said to possess starter ability but we haven't seen him on the field yet.
I'd rank the DL higher just based on potential due to the Hutchinson and Pascal picks and if you believe that Levi O. was significantly hampered by injury.
I'd rank P/PK higher because Fox is a top notch punter and our PK should be at least average.
I'd also bump up QB based on Goff's last third of the season and expect more consistent overall play.
My rankings would be like this
1. OL
2. WR
3. TE
4. PK/P
5. DL
6. QB
7. RB
8. DB
9. LB
Pretty good list. I would probably bump our PK/P down a few spots as i think our PK is below average.
I think our biggest need is still in the secondary, just because it is much more critical than LB. Amani was a very pleasent surprise last season and looks like a fringe top 10 guy. Signing him to a long-term contract should be our #1 priority, but it won't be cheap. Okuda and Huges should be adequate, but we really need a shut down CB. I hope Kerby Joseph steps up in a starting role with Tracey Walker.
Linebacker is a total dart board. We have lots of decent guys who do some things well but have significant weaknesses. I hope someone can step up and be a complete player....Malcolm Rodriguz perhaps.
I somewhat agree that are RB's are not as strong as the local media believes. But then again, I think they are adequate for their role in our offense. Swift could squeak out 1,000 yard season. Our offense is ready to compete for the playoffs this season. But our defense still has a couple missing players. Unless a couple players really rise up and become surprise studs. Then this team could win 11 games, but more likely 8.
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Stale article (Veteran Minicamp ended 6 days ago) but still informative:
TWENTYMAN: 5 players who impressed at Lions minicamp
***************
Lions signed Devin Funchess and intend to line him up at TE. Hasn't caught a pass in three years, and has three receptions since 2018. After the Colts - $13M for 1 year (1G) is a nice gig if you can get it - was with the Packers for a couple off-seasons but opted out of 2020 (Covid) and was a practice squad player for the 49ers for a few weeks last year. Doubtful he makes the team. Lions have been without two TEs - rookie 5th-round pick James Mitchell and UDFA Derrick Deese - most of the spring so Funchess adds depth for TC.
***************
Per the box score, last night Golden Tate went 2-for-4 with an RBI, a double and a stolen base in a 5-2 win for the Port Angeles Lefties.
***************
paywalled but I know a lot of people read The Athletic
roster review: 88 thoughts on 88 players as Lions offseason workouts conclude
***************
Impressive number of Veterans still in the building working with rookies doing unofficial voluntary workouts. Okudah may never become what they hoped when they took him at #3 but it won't be for lack of effort. Seems he and Levi Onwuzurike have been putting in work every day since the season ended.
***************
The Lions media availability this week included a bunch of staff we don't normally hear from. Interesting perspectives.
tight ends/passing game coordinator coach Tanner Engstrand
quarterbacks coach Mark Brunell
defensive line coach Todd Wash
linebackers coach Kelvin Sheppard
offensive line coach Hank Fraley
safeties coach Brain Duker speak
wide receivers coach Antwaan Randle El
passing game coordinator/defensive backs coach Aubrey Pleasant
And for the gazillioneth time, wow do we have a great culture these days. I also love the small things Sheila Hamp has done. Hiring full time mental health professionals to be in the building (not even football matters....just basic life maintenance.) Just hired a rising star from USC to be Director of Football Administration. Again, won't be noticed and has little to do with winning on Sundays. But it goes a long ways toward creating an environment everyone loves to be a part of, it's a fun and caring place to work. MCDC says she's there every day at Allen Park but totally stays out of the way. She's knows everything that is going on whether it's roster moves or equipment that broke in the weight room - but doesn't micromanage. She's a good executive; hire smart people, get out of the way.
TWENTYMAN: 5 players who impressed at Lions minicamp
***************
Lions signed Devin Funchess and intend to line him up at TE. Hasn't caught a pass in three years, and has three receptions since 2018. After the Colts - $13M for 1 year (1G) is a nice gig if you can get it - was with the Packers for a couple off-seasons but opted out of 2020 (Covid) and was a practice squad player for the 49ers for a few weeks last year. Doubtful he makes the team. Lions have been without two TEs - rookie 5th-round pick James Mitchell and UDFA Derrick Deese - most of the spring so Funchess adds depth for TC.
***************
Per the box score, last night Golden Tate went 2-for-4 with an RBI, a double and a stolen base in a 5-2 win for the Port Angeles Lefties.
***************
paywalled but I know a lot of people read The Athletic
roster review: 88 thoughts on 88 players as Lions offseason workouts conclude
***************
Impressive number of Veterans still in the building working with rookies doing unofficial voluntary workouts. Okudah may never become what they hoped when they took him at #3 but it won't be for lack of effort. Seems he and Levi Onwuzurike have been putting in work every day since the season ended.
***************
The Lions media availability this week included a bunch of staff we don't normally hear from. Interesting perspectives.
tight ends/passing game coordinator coach Tanner Engstrand
quarterbacks coach Mark Brunell
defensive line coach Todd Wash
linebackers coach Kelvin Sheppard
offensive line coach Hank Fraley
safeties coach Brain Duker speak
wide receivers coach Antwaan Randle El
passing game coordinator/defensive backs coach Aubrey Pleasant
And for the gazillioneth time, wow do we have a great culture these days. I also love the small things Sheila Hamp has done. Hiring full time mental health professionals to be in the building (not even football matters....just basic life maintenance.) Just hired a rising star from USC to be Director of Football Administration. Again, won't be noticed and has little to do with winning on Sundays. But it goes a long ways toward creating an environment everyone loves to be a part of, it's a fun and caring place to work. MCDC says she's there every day at Allen Park but totally stays out of the way. She's knows everything that is going on whether it's roster moves or equipment that broke in the weight room - but doesn't micromanage. She's a good executive; hire smart people, get out of the way.
Never viewed Devin Funchess as a TE, but he is kind of a tweener. Did not think much of this, but when you see Mitchell has not been practicing and Hock is usually banged up, it makes a lot of sense. Funchess is a good pass catcher.
Been a huge fan of Sheila for a while. It sickens me to see much of the fan base lumps her with the rest of the Ford's. She has done nothing but great things since she took over. Really cares about the players, the team, and creating a winning environment. Players really feel appreciated when they see the owner so engaged, but yet not in an interfering way.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Maybe summer 2020 people felt that way. I don't think any Lions fan who has paid attention holds that view any longer.
The constant drumbeat for decades has been they'll never win as long as the Ford family owns the team. Given their 60 year track record (minority stake 1960-63; principal owner since 11/22/1963) that wasn't an unreasonable position.
Mrs. Hamp has transformed the culture. An owner hasn't won NFL Executive of the Year since Rooney in 2005. If the Lions have a successful rebuild she should receive consideration. Holmes would be more deserving, but remember, unlike her mother, the GM and HC searches were in house instead of hiring consultants. Spielman was a great early hire as an advisor, Dorsey was a contributor, they've invested a lot in building up the scouting department. But Brad has been OUTSTANDING in execution.
I think her parents and her brother Bill loved football and had a passion for the game. But she's the first one who actually went about things the right way. I also like her personality. She's a little more down to earth and the Holmes/MCDC hires reflect her infectious enthusiasm.
When WCF owned the team and I lived in Grosse Pointe Park I became acquainted with folks involved with the business side of the Lions (my firm, PriceWaterhouseCoopers neé Coopers & Lybrand had Ford as a client.) Heard a lot of stories about how dysfunctional the non-football environment was, the administrative side was a hot mess and very toxic. This was 20 years before Quintricia turned it into a super unhealthy workplace.
That's a tough ask, changing an organization that has been wack-a-doodle decade after decade. Major props to SFH.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
"wack-a-doodle decade after decade"
Not a bad description, lol.
Not a bad description, lol.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Nice post. A change of culture is what was desperately needed. Quinn/Patricia seemed like a continuation of the WCF/Russ Thomas brand. I wanted a change of culture for so long. Knew it wasn't pretending to be the Patriots.BobbyLayne said:
It was establishing their own identity. I couldn't define what the change of culture would like exactly but knew I would recognize it when I saw it. Accountability, aggressiveness and embracing Detroit and its history were part of it. I see a change in culture for the Lions.
Speaking of aggressiveness both Holmes and Campbell have it. Fans who closely follow the team know a change is underway.
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Prime example is how he handled the A Lynn situation last year. Past years the SOL would have said well got a let him try the rest of the year. Or do something ridiculous like publicly firing them & making a scapegoat out of him. MCDC was like “OK I respect the hell out of you but this ain’t good enough. I have to try something else.” He took over playcalling, got better at it as the year went on, and let Lynn continue doing the OC press conferences. Whatever was going on - they kept it private, they kept it in house. That’s the way you’re supposed to handle your business. With dignity & class.
that was a leadership move. That was a declaration that “whatever went on before I got here - that’s not we’ll do things on my team. Everyone’s accountable, including me.” He really won a lot of respect by 1) doing right by Lynn, who has a good rep & got another gig after he left Detroit, and 2) hey, buck stops here. We’ve got issues. Let’s call that what it is. Let’s fix that.”
Or cutting Mule. Hell, 17 years doing the same job, on his 40th birthday. He could have just said “hey we made a decision that is best for the team.” That was enough. But not MCDC. “This sucks. It’s the guys 40th birthday and he’s second all time in games played for the franchise, and I’m an #######. It had be done, but I don’t like it.”
Dude is all heart, and it’s in his sleeve.
Coach is stacked. You don’t gotta be an athlete to be a winning HC (lol obviously) but it’s pretty cool he is out there mixing it up with the boys.
Players are all in.
People mock MCDC, the knee caps, the oversharing. It’s a cynical age, they think it’s schtick. He talks like The Dude abides and all this folksy shoot man west Texas stuff - they think he’s thick headed. He is whip smart but doesn’t have to feed his ego showing everyone. He is as authentic and genuine as you will find.
Love the tone Holmes and MCDC set. It permeates all through the building. “This is what we’re about. These are our guys - athletes, gritty, love ball, smart, ready to be coached. LFG.” From Day 1 they had a clear shared vision of the way they wanted to build the roster from the outside in. Just getting started, but this time around, it really is different than any regime before them.
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
There’s likely very little chance Malcolm Rodriguez is a actual green dot helmet, 3 down off ball this year. But it’s incredible a 5the round rookie is that good. It’s amazing he knows the playbook so well less than two months after the drafted, is such a tremendous on field communicator, that they’re already considering him for that role.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
We don`t know yet if the Lions will have success under DC yet, it is trending that way right now. One thing for sure though is the culture has finally changed.
Mayhew never talked to the press, Quinn never talked so fans never really knew what was going on. Holmes has been on TV and the radio and talked in depth.
Caldwell's presser were horrible, he acted like a KBG agent who could not give up any info, Matty-Patty just talked coach speak in circles.
DC lays it all out there like you are sitting next to him in a bar. Very refreshing.
