2025 Detroit Lions: 0-0 HOF Game on tape, as DC said..."We got work to do" (59 Viewers)

[BobbyLayne]

Defensively, the Lions could certainly add more to the defensive line, even with their re-signings. They cut last year’s stopgap replacement, Za’Darius Smith. Al-Quadian Muhammad and Pat O’Connor remain free agents. Plus, Alim McNeill’s recovery from a torn ACL will likely extend into the regular season.

The linebacker corps looks solid for the time being, even with the release of Jalen Reeves-Maybin and Malcolm Rodriguez recovering from an ACL injury. The Lions opened last season with seven — which many thought was excessive — and already have at least that many under contract who should have roster cases.

The starting secondary is in good shape, with Reed signing on to replace the departing Carlton Davis III. The depth is another matter. Ennis Rakestraw, last year’s second-round pick, is a nice piece with a reasonably high ceiling if he can stay healthy. Regardless, the Lions could use another cornerback or two. And safety is even thinner after Ifeatu Melifonwu flew the coop for a one-year deal from Miami. The other safeties under contract are unproven youngsters Loren Strickland, Erick Hallett and Morice Norris.

While you might not love the options at every spot, it’s difficult to suggest the Lions don’t have a complete starting lineup already under contract.

QB: Jared Goff

RB: David Montgomery/Jahmyr Gibbs

WR: Amon-Ra St. Brown, Jameson Willimas, Tim Patrick

TE: Sam LaPorta/Brock Wright

OL: Taylor Decker/Graham Glasgow/Frank Ragnow/Christian Mahogany/Penei Sewell

DL: Aidan Hutchinson/Levi Onwuzurike (Alim McNeill when healthy)/DJ Reader/Marcus Davenport

LB: Alex Anzalone/Jack Campbell/Derrick Barnes

CB: D.J. Reed/Terrion Arnold/Amik Roberson

S: Kerby Joseph/Brian Branch

So what more can or should the Lions do ahead of next month’s draft, an event where the team holds eight selections? Let’s reset the lingering needs, even if it’s mostly projected to be depth at this stage. The Lions could use reinforcements at guard, wide receiver, defensive end, defensive tackle, cornerback and safety.

Let’s take a look at what remains at each position and some types the Lions could potentially target to bolster the roster.

Guard​

Best available: Brandon Scherff, Teven Jenkins, Andre James, David Andrews, Shaq Mason

Potential fits: Will Hernandez, Dalton Risner, Cody Whitehair, Dillon Radunz, Trystan Colon

Thoughts: After struggling across the finish line while playing through multiple injuries last season, fans would like to see some competition for Glasgow. It’s not a reach to suggest an option is potentially already on the roster with Muti. Still, there’s little doubt the team needs to think long-term, with Glasgow nearing his 33rd birthday and carrying an $8.4 million cap hit (with $2.9 million in dead money) in 2026.

Even if the Lions seek to address guard in the draft, nothing guarantees the board will fall in a way that offers an opportunity to draft the right guy. Therefore, experienced depth who could capably start is still on the table.

I’d imagine the team would target versatility with any possible signing, whether that’s the ability to play both right and left guard or some snapping experience. Hernandez fits the mold of what the Lions might target, a gritty and productive starter who has something to prove coming off a knee injury.

Risner and Whitehair, two players the Lions know well from division battles, are older veterans with the desired versatility. Meanwhile, Radunz and Colon are younger options who fit that mold. Radunz has played both guard spots and right tackle, while Colon filled in for Hernandez at right guard last season and also played center.

Wide receiver​

Best available: Amari Cooper, Stefon Diggs, Keenan Allen, Tyler Lockett, Brandin Cooks

Potential fits: Chris Conley, Robert Woods, Zach Pascal

Thoughts: When you think about how few targets were available for Detroit’s non-starting pass-catchers last season, it’s difficult to even suggest a big-name addition. Allen Robinson appeared in 12 games in 2024 but saw just seven targets, resulting in three receptions. Hell, Kalif Ramond’s production is down 60% from two years ago.

There’s certainly a need to think long-term about replacing the 31-year-old Patrick, but like at guard, that’s a better draft conversation. If Detroit were to add another veteran via free agency, they would have to be content to play a mentor role like Robinson, contribute something to special teams, or both.

It’s why Conley tops our list. He’s older, a good special teamer, doesn’t command a lot of targets and is an excellent blocker, which adds value when he sees the field.

Robert Woods also fits the Allen mold, and Woods has played more special teams snaps late in his career. There’s the added connection with general manager Brad Holmes from their overlapping time in Los Angeles.

Defensive end​

Best available: Azeez Ojulari, Za’Darius Smith, Matt Judon, Von Miller, Charles Omenihu, Dennis Gardick

Potential fits: Emmanuel Ogbah, Preston Smith, Muhammad

Thoughts: There’s understandable skepticism around the returning Davenport, who has missed most of the past two seasons with injuries. But the Lions clearly believe in and are banking on him and Josh Paschal filling most of the reps opposite Hutchinson.

This is also another logical spot to target in the draft, as early as the first round, especially given Davenport and Paschal will be operating on expiring deals. Still, veteran depth carries value.

Many have asked if the team could still bring back Za’Darius Smith on a cheaper deal. While I’d never shut the door on something like that, you don’t usually push out a thank you message to a city on social media if that option was discussed when you were released.

The outside possibility of adding a bigger name lingers, especially if it’s an older option on a short-term deal, like Von Miller. You have to imagine he’s looking to land with a contender and might be willing to take a small discount for the right situation.

Otherwise, I’m focused on body types. Ogbah and Preston Smith are thicker-framed options who can crush the pocket the way the Lions like and set a firm edge against the run. Alternatively, they could always run it back with Muhammad, who was solid depth and won’t break the bank.

Defensive tackle​

Best available: Calais Campbell, John Jenkins, Jonathan Bullard, Daniel Ekuale

Potential fits: Campbell, Pat O’Connor, William Gholston

Thoughts: The signing of Lopez caught me off guard. I hadn't considered nose tackle as a need, especially with the team planning to keep Reader. Regardless, that doesn't change the long-term calculus on the inside, with both those contracts expiring in a year and Brodric Martin yet to show signs he's the answer.

Detroit is better set at the 3-technique with McNeill locked up on a long-term contract and Onwuzurike back for another season. Still, the team could use some depth while the former recovers.

The simplest solution would be bringing back O'Connor, who should come cheap and was a solid contributor last season. But I'm going to continue to bang the table for Campbell, a longtime favorite at the position. Even as he nears his 39th birthday, he's a dominant run defender with pass-rush juice. Plus, he's highly durable. It makes too much sense.

If you're a sucker for connections, there's Gholston. The Detroit native and former Michigan State standout has played the past several seasons under new Lions defensive line coach Kacy Rodgers in Tampa Bay.

Cornerback​

Best available: Asante Samuel Jr., Rasul Douglas, Mike Hilton, Stephon Gilmore, Kendall Fuller, Ronald Darby

Potential fits: Avonte Maddox, Khalil Dorsey, Siran Neal

Thoughts: This is another position where I’m not sure the Lions are looking to spend significant resources with four under-30 cornerbacks under contract.

If they add another veteran, they’ll want someone who has had some success playing man coverage and can contribute on special teams. The ability to play both outside and in the slot would be a plus.

These narrow parameters don’t return many available names in this market. Dorsey has been such an important part of Detroit’s special teams the past couple of years, yet there are medical concerns after he broke his leg last season. Maddox, a reserve for the Super Bowl champs, played a career-high 231 special teams snaps last season. He’s logged far more time in the slot, especially in recent seasons, but has more than 800 reps on the outside if pressed into playing wide.

Safety​

Best available: Justin Simmons, Julian Blackmon, Juan Thornhill, Marcus Williams, Jordan Whitehead, Rayshawn Jenkins

Potential fits: Quandre Diggs, Tony Jefferson, John Johnson III, Mike Edwards

Thoughts: When you have two All-Pro caliber starters, you can’t justify committing too many resources to a backup unless they have the talent to push a coordinator to consider three-safety packages.

Most of my favorites to backfill Melifonwu’s role as the No. 3 safety have been signed, including pie-in-the-sky option Jeremy Chinn and versatile special teamer Ashytn Davis.

Of the remaining alternatives, Diggs and Jefferson are versatile veterans who could back up both spots and see some work in nickel and dime packages, presuming Diggs is healing nicely from last year’s Lisfranc injury.

As for Johnson, he missed most of last season due to an injury but was activated for the playoffs. There’s the connection with Holmes from L.A. and some more recent special teams experience.

 

[Zeppelin]

Rams have greatly improved their defense through the draft and its been done cheaply.

So did the Super Bowl champion Eagles.

 

[msudaisy26]

Rams have greatly improved their defense through the draft and its been done cheaply.

So did the Super Bowl champion Eagles.

They were much earlier picks than the Lions had and the Eagles took a couple of years for them to develop. Verse is just a freak.

 

[Ilov80s]

Lions starting roster is fantastic. Priorities should be depth, resigning their own stars and gettng good deals on value short term FAs who aren't getting the big/long deals they hoped for.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Lions starting roster is fantastic. Priorities should be depth, resigning their own stars and gettng good deals on value short term FAs who aren't getting the big/long deals they hoped for.

That's how you do it.

As an aside, if you don't change that avatar you have approximately 24 hours to live after what that little ******* did to break my heart yesterday

 

[BobbyLayne]

Free agent film study: What the Detroit Lions are getting in cornerback D.J. Reed​

Allen Park — Welcome to our first tape study of the Detroit Lions' offseason additions. We're kicking the series off with the expected crown jewel of the team's free-agency class, cornerback D.J. Reed, who scored a three-year, $48 million contract from the club.

The format for these posts will include a short bio, recent statistics, injury history, athletic profile, schematic usage and a comprehensive evaluation of the player’s skill set with supporting clips from their 2024 tape.

Games watched​

Significant portions of all 14 of Reed’s starts from the 2024 season, including all 59 targets while in coverage.

Bio​

Reed will turn 29 years old in November. Born and raised in Bakersfield, Calif., he was late to commit to football and started his college career as a walk-on at Fresno State. When coaches at the school told him he didn’t have a future on the team playing cornerback after his freshman season, Reed transferred to Cerritos College, a JUCO just outside of Los Angeles. He performed well enough there to earn an opportunity at Kansas State, where he played in 24 games across two seasons, recording 103 tackles, seven interceptions and 25 pass defenses.

Reed was selected in the fifth round of the 2018 draft by the San Francisco 49ers. A reserve who saw most of his playing time in the slot, he was let go during his third training camp after suffering an injury during training. Claimed by the Seahawks, Reed became a starter on the outside after he was medically cleared, starting 22 games for the franchise the next two seasons.

Reed parlayed that success into a three-year, $33 million contract with the New York Jets in 2022.

Recent statistics​

• 2022: 17 starts, 80 tackles, 12 pass defenses, one forced fumble, one interception, 73.7 passer rating when targeted
• 2023: 15 starts, 76 tackles, nine pass defenses, one forced fumble, one interception, 80.4 passer rating when targeted
• 2024: 14 starts, 64 tackles, 11 pass defenses, 1.0 sack, 80.4 passer rating when targeted

Durability​

Reed tore his pec while lifting weights, leading to his release from San Francisco in 2020. Upon returning to action with Seattle, he missed one game in two years with a groin strain.

In three seasons with the Jets, Reed missed two games in 2023 with a concussion and three non-consecutive games last season, one because of a knee concern and two others due to another groin issue.

Athletic profile​

Reed is unquestionably on the smaller side for an outside cornerback, measuring in at 5-foot-9 and 188 pounds with 31 5/8-inch arms. During the pre-draft process in 2018, he posted outstanding agility numbers in the short shuttle and three-cone drill, paired with above-average speed (4.51 40-yard dash) and leaping ability.

Usage​

Since becoming a starter in Seattle in 2020, Reed has primarily played on the outside, with the vast majority of his snaps coming on the right side of the formation.

Despite logging 250 snaps in the slot and box for the Jets when adjusting to offensive formations, Reed was rarely used as a blitzer, coming after the quarterback 10 times across the past three seasons.

The Jets played a healthy mix of man and zone coverage, with Cover-1, Cover-3 and Cover-4 accounting for the majority of their looks. When playing man, Reed frequently pressed.

Skill assessment​

Coverage: The two traits that immediately jump out with Reed’s tape are his ability to turn and run — staying attached to his assignment on deeper routes — and his capacity to rapidly accelerate and close ground when triggering on throws in front of him.

Reed has fluid hips. And although he does not have elite speed, he regularly shows an ability to stay in phase with speedy vertical threats such as Denver’s Troy Franklin and Minnesota’s Jordan Addison.

Note: Reed is wearing No. 4 in the attached clips.
(unfortunately the embedded video clips can't be linked from behind the Substack firewall)

Reed’s ability to drive on the football shows up in a variety of coverages, and his adequate arm length allows him to reach around the intended target for pass-breakups when coming downhill, whether playing man or zone.

Below, he reads quarterback Brock Purdy’s eyes and knocks away a slant intended for Deebo Samuels.

Reed meshes his football IQ and downhill trigger on screens to the perimeter. He routinely processes these looks quickly and is often able to beat a block to disrupt the play.

Reed occasionally gets in trouble when he opens his hips to the sideline on an outside release, allowing the receiver to cross back inside on an in-breaking pattern. Occasionally, his quickness will enable him to recover, as he did for a PBU against Denver’s Josh Reynolds. But more often than not, he can’t close the manufactured separation, surrendering a completion across the middle.

Reed is also hit or miss on double moves. He’ll occasionally get overaggressive trying to make a play in front of him, allowing the receiver to accelerate by him down the field. One of the worst examples from his 2024 tape was against Seattle’s D.K. Metcalf.

Reed can similarly get stuck on an underneath pattern when he has deep-third responsibilities. Against Indianapolis, he got focused on an out-breaking route to the sideline, losing Josh Downs through the seam for a 31-yard pickup.

Reed’s deep ball-tracking is average. He forces a lot of incompletions simply by being in tight coverage but doesn’t make many plays on the ball on throws over his head. His most egregious lapse came while initially in phase on a double-move by Houston’s Tank Dell. But when the deep throw drifted inside, only the receiver adjusted, resulting in a 50-yard gain.

Reed’s penalty issues have been highlighted as part of this transaction. Like many aggressive corners, he draws a significant number of flags, including 11 last season. Going through that tape, some are obvious calls.

Against Buffalo, Reed got hit for a pair of pass interferences against Mack Hollins, one for grabbing the receiver’s wrist on a deep ball and another for arriving early on an underthrown ball at the end of a scramble drill after stumbling early in the snap. Reed also got busted for tugging on the jerseys of Tyreek Hill and Justin Jefferson on their route breaks.

On some of the others, including a second DPI against Jefferson, replays showed the flag was touchy and probably unnecessary. But given how often Reed is in tight coverage, he’s going to draw a few more penalties than an average defensive back.

Reed also had a few illegal contact penalties last season, including two in a second matchup with Buffalo, where he got up too high with his jam and made contact with a receiver’s helmet. Those are easy cleanups.

In terms of his size, it’s generally not an issue. Reed can be a bulldog, even jamming 6-foot-3, 215-pound Keon Coleman to the grass on a snap.

There were only a couple of examples on his 2024 tape where a bigger receiver won the route because of a physical mismatch. Alec Pierce, who is listed at 6-foot-3, 211 pounds, was able to keep Reed off his frame on a deep crosser that netted 16 yards. And the cornerback had no answer for a slot fade to Marvin Harrison Jr. that resulted in a 9-yard touchdown, one of just two Reed allowed in 2024. Even with that one, the coverage was strong, but the throw was better.

Run Defense: With an outside corner, more than anything, you want to see consistent effort against the run. There’s no concern in that department with Reed. He rallies to the ball, and there are several cleanup tackles on tape after a teammate fails to make the initial stop. And even when the play is going the other direction, Reed stays active, keeping the blocker off his frame in case the ball carrier reverses field.

Reed doesn’t hesitate to wade into the box and contribute in support, making physical stops inside the tackles against Minnesota, San Francisco and Seattle.

When responsible for an edge, Reed is decisive and typically capable of making a solo tackle in the open field.

His size and quickness work to his advantage when fending off blocks. His narrow frame and lateral agility provide a limited target for striking and latching.

Conversely, he can occasionally get overpowered in the open field. Against the Patriots, he gave up an edge when he was stiff-armed by 246-pound running back Rhamondre Stevenson. And while not a run play, Buffalo tight end Dalton Kincaid ran through the corner’s tackle attempt on a pass to the flat.

Pass rush: Like most outside cornerbacks, Reed is rarely sent on the blitz. Still, his 10 pass-rush efforts over the past two years resulted in three pressures, including a sack on C.J. Stroud against Houston in 2024.

Unblocked on that snap, Reed showed an ability to corner with an impressive closing burst. While it won't ever be a regular part of Detroit's game plan, there's demonstrable ability on film to merit occasional deployment as a surprise rusher.

​

 

[BobbyLayne]

Conclusion​

The Lions got a good one in Reed, which should be obvious by the fact he's cashing in on a second multi-year contract following the expiration of his rookie deal in 2021.

Despite concerns naturally attached to a corner with his size, Reed is physical and not intimidated by the prospect of defending bigger receivers. His man-to-man capabilities fit Detroit's preferred playing style, but he also brings extensive experience in zone, dating back to his time with Seattle. That versatility keeps coordinator Kelvin Sheppard's call sheet options open.

Reed is aggressive when playing downhill, whether on short throws, against perimeter screens, or in run support. He uses his length well when pressing at the line of scrimmage or reaching around a target to break up a pass.

Reed has the long speed to stay in phase on deep routes, regularly putting him in position to contest those throws, as long as he doesn't bite on double moves. He can get handsy, leading to an above-average number of penalties, but within the expected range for a physical cornerback playing a heavy percentage of man coverage snaps.

Entering his eighth season, Reed's footwork can be refined further. He can be susceptible to inside releases at the line of scrimmage, which are occasionally exacerbated by prematurely opening his hips. This can lead to awkward recovery efforts.

Reed didn't have an interception last season but demonstrated good hands when opportunities presented themself in previous years, including a spectacular one-handed pick on a deep ball while at Kansas State.

 

[Zeppelin]

He can get handsy, leading to an above-average number of penalties, but within the expected range for a physical cornerback playing a heavy percentage of man coverage snaps.

The above (especially being within the expected range) is vastly overlooked.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

He can get handsy, leading to an above-average number of penalties, but within the expected range for a physical cornerback playing a heavy percentage of man coverage snaps.

The above (especially being within the expected range) is vastly overlooked.

Yes, better than the good old days when our DBs rarely got flagged, because they were always 5 yards behind an open receiver.

 

[Payne]

Check the Mic winners and losers: The Lions are playing The Long Game in Free Agency

The outcome of the Lions free agency 2025 will be re-signing their own over the next 2-3 years. Aggressive moves now likely would have resulted in parts of the core departing.

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

 

[BobbyLayne]

The folks running the show think they’re going about it the right way.

Would be fun to pull up FA grades from past seasons. Seems like there is little correlation between teams that “win free agency” and overall success.

The 2018 Bears, 2023 Broncos, 2020 Dolphins, 2022 Jaguars, 2019 Jets, 2024 Panthers, 2021 + 2025 Pats, 2025 Vikings all spent over $200M in free agency. Some of those are TBD but not good, eh.

Biggest spenders 2020-2023:

Top 16 NFL Teams by Free Agent Spending:

• ⁠New York Jets: $346MM; 0 PA
• ⁠Jacksonville Jaguars $324MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Cincinnati Bengals: $287MM; 2 PA; 1 CC
• ⁠Miami Dolphins: $270MM; 2 PA
• ⁠Las Vegas Raiders: $249MM; 1 PA
• ⁠New York Giants: $240MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Carolina Panthers: $234MM; 0 PA
• ⁠New England Patriots: $230MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Denver Broncos: $229MM; 0 PA
• ⁠Chicago Bears: $227MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Los Angeles Chargers: $222MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Houston Texans: $206MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Cleveland Browns: $204MM; 2 PA
• ⁠Buffalo Bills: $198MM; 4 PA
• ⁠Washington Commanders: $197MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Tennessee Titans: $159MM; 2 PA

50% of NFL teams who spent the most in free agency during the past four years combined for a grand total of 20/56 playoff appearances, 1/8 conference championships, and zero Super Bowls during that period. To get a little more granular, the 10 highest spending franchises made nine total playoff appearances and won one conference championship - with three top 10 teams missing the playoff in all four seasons.

Bottom 16 NFL Teams by Free Agent Spending:

• ⁠Kansas City Chiefs: $157MM; 4 PA; 3 CC; 2 SB
• ⁠Detroit Lions: $148MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Baltimore Ravens: $144MM; 3 PA
• ⁠Atlanta Falcons: $141MM; 0 PA
• ⁠Pittsburgh Steelers: $130M; 3 PA
• ⁠New Orleans Saints: $130MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Minnesota Vikings: $126MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Arizona Cardinals: $126MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Seattle Seahawks: $122MM; 2 PA
• ⁠San Francisco 49ers: $111MM; 3 PA; 1 CC
• ⁠Philadelphia Eagles: $111MM; 3 PA; 1 CC
• ⁠Indianapolis Colts: $96MM; 1 PA
• ⁠Los Angeles Rams: $93MM; 3 PA; 1 CC; 1 SB
• ⁠Tampa Bay Buccaneers: $84MM; 4 PA; 1 CC; 1 SB
• ⁠Dallas Cowboys: $54MM; 3 PA
• ⁠Green Bay Packers: $21MM: 3 PA

50% of NFL teams who spent the least in free agency have been much more successful over the previous four seasons - combining for 36/56 playoff appearances, 7/8 conference championships, and all four Super Bowl titles. That holds true even if we exclude the Chiefs, as the 10 lowest spending franchises made 24 playoff appearances and won four conference championships and two Super Bowls. Notably, unlike their high-rolling counterparts, every team in the bottom 10 made the playoffs at least once during the period in question.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Data is good. Data is our friend.

 

[Zeppelin]

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

So you say keeping your own like the 49ers is bad, that re-signing them will be cap hell. So you think we should be aggressive and go all in to make a move for someone like Crosby or Garrett for example (which by the way would not guarantee you win a Super Bowl). That would add a $35 million contract. If it was cap hell before, what would it be after a move like that? How many MORE players would we lose?

I don't understand your logic.

 

[MAC_32]

Check the Mic winners and losers: The Lions are playing The Long Game in Free Agency

The outcome of the Lions free agency 2025 will be re-signing their own over the next 2-3 years. Aggressive moves now likely would have resulted in parts of the core departing.

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

The 49ers traded a buncha picks for Trey Lance and most of the ones they kept with the exception of the obvious, Purdy, flopped. That's why they are where they are now. Knowing guys like Garrett and Crosby weren't available, who would've you pushed all in for?

 

[msudaisy26]

Check the Mic winners and losers: The Lions are playing The Long Game in Free Agency

The outcome of the Lions free agency 2025 will be re-signing their own over the next 2-3 years. Aggressive moves now likely would have resulted in parts of the core departing.

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

The 49ers traded a buncha picks for Trey Lance and most of the ones they kept with the exception of the obvious, Purdy, flopped. That's why they are where they are now. Knowing guys like Garrett and Crosby weren't available, who would've you pushed all in for?

I don't know about Payne, but I am not asking them to go all Rams and f them picks or even blow all their money.

They should be taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman to win a Super Bowl because that is the weak spot going into this season with a really good team that can win it all. Like the Chiefs did with their offensive line, like the Eagles did with a few skill players.

 

[MAC_32]

Check the Mic winners and losers: The Lions are playing The Long Game in Free Agency

The outcome of the Lions free agency 2025 will be re-signing their own over the next 2-3 years. Aggressive moves now likely would have resulted in parts of the core departing.

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

The 49ers traded a buncha picks for Trey Lance and most of the ones they kept with the exception of the obvious, Purdy, flopped. That's why they are where they are now. Knowing guys like Garrett and Crosby weren't available, who would've you pushed all in for?

I don't know about Payne, but I am not asking them to go all Rams and f them picks or even blow all their money.

They should be taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman to win a Super Bowl because that is the weak spot going into this season with a really good team that can win it all. Like the Chiefs did with their offensive line, like the Eagles did with a few skill players.

Is 32 yo Grady Jarrett ~$26m better than 27 yo Levi?

 

[Payne]

Check the Mic winners and losers: The Lions are playing The Long Game in Free Agency

The outcome of the Lions free agency 2025 will be re-signing their own over the next 2-3 years. Aggressive moves now likely would have resulted in parts of the core departing.

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

The 49ers traded a buncha picks for Trey Lance and most of the ones they kept with the exception of the obvious, Purdy, flopped. That's why they are where they are now. Knowing guys like Garrett and Crosby weren't available, who would've you pushed all in for?

I don't know about Payne, but I am not asking them to go all Rams and f them picks or even blow all their money.

They should be taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman to win a Super Bowl because that is the weak spot going into this season with a really good team that can win it all. Like the Chiefs did with their offensive line, like the Eagles did with a few skill players.

I want ONE big move.

 

[MAC_32]

Check the Mic winners and losers: The Lions are playing The Long Game in Free Agency

The outcome of the Lions free agency 2025 will be re-signing their own over the next 2-3 years. Aggressive moves now likely would have resulted in parts of the core departing.

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

The 49ers traded a buncha picks for Trey Lance and most of the ones they kept with the exception of the obvious, Purdy, flopped. That's why they are where they are now. Knowing guys like Garrett and Crosby weren't available, who would've you pushed all in for?

I don't know about Payne, but I am not asking them to go all Rams and f them picks or even blow all their money.

They should be taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman to win a Super Bowl because that is the weak spot going into this season with a really good team that can win it all. Like the Chiefs did with their offensive line, like the Eagles did with a few skill players.

I want ONE big move.

Dan Moore for $82m, done.

 

[BobbyLayne]

r/NFL had some interesting charts & graphs Sunday illustrating the contributions teams received from their 2021-24 draft classes

How much value did each team get in 2024 from their recent draft picks?​

 

[msudaisy26]

Check the Mic winners and losers: The Lions are playing The Long Game in Free Agency

The outcome of the Lions free agency 2025 will be re-signing their own over the next 2-3 years. Aggressive moves now likely would have resulted in parts of the core departing.

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

The 49ers traded a buncha picks for Trey Lance and most of the ones they kept with the exception of the obvious, Purdy, flopped. That's why they are where they are now. Knowing guys like Garrett and Crosby weren't available, who would've you pushed all in for?

I don't know about Payne, but I am not asking them to go all Rams and f them picks or even blow all their money.

They should be taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman to win a Super Bowl because that is the weak spot going into this season with a really good team that can win it all. Like the Chiefs did with their offensive line, like the Eagles did with a few skill players.

Is 32 yo Grady Jarrett ~$26m better than 27 yo Levi?

Who is saying that?

 

[BobbyLayne]

What a market-resetting extension for Kerby Joseph could look like for Lions​

Allen Park — If you haven’t figured it out by now, the cornerstone of the Detroit Lions’ roster-building strategy during the Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell era has been draft, develop and re-sign.

With Holmes’ first draft class, the team has re-upped with five of the selections, including top-of-the-market deals for a trio from that group: Penei Sewell, Amon-Ra St. Brown and Alim McNeill. Derrick Barnes isn’t doing too badly, either, with a fresh three-year, $24 million pact.

Now, it’s time for the team to take care of its 2022 class. To be clear, the team has a little more time with edge defender Aidan Hutchinson and wide receiver Jameson Williams, holding fifth-year options on their rookie contracts as first-round picks.

There’s more urgency with safety Kerby Joseph — a first-team All-Pro in 2024 — as he enters the final year of his deal. Here’s what Holmes had to say about a possible extension with the star defensive back in January.

“That’s on the docket, in terms of to be looked at and discussed,” Holmes said. “We know where he’s at from an eligibility (standpoint). Look, he’s an All-Pro player. I mean, I don’t know how you don’t make the Pro Bowl with nine interceptions, whatever that is, but he’s an All-Pro player, and he’s been — he’s another one that’s gotten better and better. He’s one that has proven that he’s a Detroit Lion.

“He fits,” Holmes said. “He fits our culture. It’s hard to find ballhawk guys that will tackle like how he does, and I think that’s what makes him unique. Again, we haven’t had any intense dialogue about that yet, but, obviously, we want to keep the good players here.”

Joseph, a third-round pick out of Illinois in 2022, was pushed into the starting lineup earlier than expected after Tracy Walker suffered a season-ending Achilles injury in Week 3 of Joseph’s rookie campaign.

Almost immediately, he revealed his playmaking potential. As a rookie, Joseph tallied four interceptions and two forced fumbles. He followed that up with another four interceptions in 2023 before exploding for a league-leading nine last season.

Beyond the takeaways, Joseph made noticeable and significant improvements in his risk-taking and tackling. He reduced the receiving yards he allowed when targeted by more than half and slashed his missed tackle rate from 15.0% to 6.3% from 2023 to 2024.

In one year, he transformed from a solid starter with some boom-or-bust tendencies to a well-rounded and reliable performer with genuinely elite playmaking ability.

This is why he’s poised to reset the safety market. Along with the desire to extend Hutchinson, it’s likely why the Lions have been relatively conservative with their cap space during free agency. Remember, unused cap carries over each year.

Below are the contract figures for the league’s seven highest-paid safeties and when those deals were signed.

• Antoine Winfield Jr., four years, $84.1 million, $45 million guaranteed (2024 extension after receiving the franchise tag)
• Derwin James, four years, $76 million, $42 million guaranteed (2022 extension)
• Minkah Fitzpatrick, four years, $73 million, $36 million guaranteed (2022 extension)
• Xavier McKinney, four years, $67 million, $23 million guaranteed (2024 free agency)
• Budda Baker, three years, $54 million, $29.4 million guaranteed (2024 extension)
• Trevor Moehrig, three years, 51 million, $34.5 million guaranteed (2025 free agency)
• Jessie Bates, four years, $64 million, $36 million guaranteed (2024 free agency)

Mirroring Winfield, Joseph is coming off an All-Pro season as his next contract is being weighed. Additionally, Winfield was PFF’s highest-graded safety in 2023, a distinction Joseph earned last season.

Like it or not, Winfield’s deal is the benchmark. Plus, considering it’s being negotiated a year later and would kick in two seasons after that agreement, Joseph’s argument is strengthened by the salary cap’s overall inflation, having jumped more than 24% across the past two offseasons. It’s up 34% since James and Fitzpatrick, second and third on the above list, signed their extensions.

While Joseph’s representation could potentially push for even more, we’ll project a new agreement at four years, $86 million with more than $47 million guaranteed.

Here’s a hypothetical structure for that deal, which includes a $15 million signing bonus.

2025

Base salary: $3.37 million (pre-existing)
Signing bonus: $3.21 million (a prorated portion of the $15 million plus a lingering $212,500 from Joseph’s rookie contract signing bonus
Workout bonus: $35,000 (pre-existing)
Cap hit: $6.62 million

2026

Base salary: $5.8 million (fully guaranteed)
Signing bonus: $3 million
Per game bonus: $250,000
Workout bonus: $50,000
Cap hit: $9.1 million

2027

Base salary: $14 million (fully guaranteed)
Signing bonus: $3 million
Option bonus: $2.4 million (a prorated portion of a $12 million bonus)
Per game bonus: $250,000
Workout bonus: $50,000
Cap hit: $19.7 million

2028

Base salary: $17 million
Signing bonus: $3 million
Option bonus: $2.4 million
Per game bonus: $250,000
Workout bonus: $50,000
Cap hit: $22.7 million
Dead money: $15.6 million

2029

Base salary: $21 million
Signing bonus: $3 million
Option bonus: $2.4 million
Per game bonus: $250,000
Workout bonus: $50,000
Cap hit: $26.7 million
Dead money: $10.2 million
2030 (Void year)
Option bonus: $2.4 million
Dead money: $4.8 million
2031 (Void year)
Option bonus: $2.4 million

Breaking down the contract

As noted, this hypothetical calls for $86 million in new money across four seasons. For cap purposes, a signing bonus is divided over the remaining length of the contract, up to five seasons, and can include pre-existing years.

Thus, the proposed $15 million signing bonus would count $3 million against the cap each year.

Joseph’s base salaries would be guaranteed in 2025 and 2026, totaling $19.8 million.

Additionally, I’ve included a $12 million option bonus in 2027, which acts like a signing bonus for cap purposes, divided evenly across the remaining years of the contract. I’ve added two void years at the end of the deal to spread that option bonus out across five years, lessening the 2027-29 cap hits. If Joseph were to play out the full contract, it would leave a relatively modest $4.8 million in dead money in 2030.

The structure is similar to Amon-Ra St. Brown’s extension, signed last year, but with less dead money attached to the void years.

Now, you might balk at the Lions having to pay a market-resetting deal for Joseph, but it’s a reality. With cap inflation, James’ four-year extension would be worth more than $100 million. Even after one year, the 9.32% increase in the overall cap raises Winfield’s contract's value to nearly $92 million.

Yes, a Joseph extension would add to an already overburdened 2026 cap figure for the Lions, but quarterback Jared Goff’s $69.6 million cap hit is almost certain to be reduced through a restructure that moves some of that burden to the future.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Key note from previous post:

“ Allen Park — If you haven’t figured it out by now, the cornerstone of the Detroit Lions’ roster-building strategy during the Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell era has been draft, develop and re-sign.”

This strategy has turned the franchise around and has provided an opportunity to win now and in the future. Hopefully we can stay healthier this year and get to the playoffs running on all cylinders. Go us.

 

[rockaction]

You guys are going to love Grant Stuard on special teams if he makes the club. This is a young man I began to follow last year because of IDP leagues and a breakout game with the Colts when he made something like 17 or 18 tackles at LB when the two guys ahead of him went down.

I know you have Alex Anzalone, Jack Campbell, Malcolm Rodriguez (who might not be totally okay to start the season if memory serves), and Derrick Barnes, but this guy just flat works his tail off. I'm surprised he signed for so little and for so little protection (he might even be a cut candidate), but watch his journey this year with you guys. Something to keep an eye on. He'll probably be competing with Ezekiel Turner for a job.

 

[Zeppelin]

You guys are going to love Grant Stuard on special teams if he makes the club. This is a young man I began to follow last year because of IDP leagues and a breakout game with the Colts when he made something like 17 or 18 tackles at LB when the two guys ahead of him went down.

I know you have Alex Anzalone, Jack Campbell, Malcolm Rodriguez (who might not be totally okay to start the season if memory serves), and Derrick Barnes, but this guy just flat works his tail off. I'm surprised he signed for so little and for so little protection (he might even be a cut candidate), but watch his journey this year with you guys. Something to keep an eye on. He'll probably be competing with Ezekiel Turner for a job.

Stuard has such a great story that makes him easy to root for. He is so good on special teams and can play LB in a pinch so he's pretty much locked into a roster spot. He's the replacement for LB and special teams standout Jalen Reeves-Maybin and has his leadership skills to boot.

 

[Zeppelin]

As a rookie, Joseph tallied four interceptions and two forced fumbles. He followed that up with another four interceptions in 2023 before exploding for a league-leading nine last season.

Beyond the takeaways, Joseph made noticeable and significant improvements in his risk-taking and tackling. He reduced the receiving yards he allowed when targeted by more than half and slashed his missed tackle rate from 15.0% to 6.3% from 2023 to 2024.

Based on the above, it's a pretty easy decision to extend Joseph.

 

[BobbyLayne]

As a rookie, Joseph tallied four interceptions and two forced fumbles. He followed that up with another four interceptions in 2023 before exploding for a league-leading nine last season.

Beyond the takeaways, Joseph made noticeable and significant improvements in his risk-taking and tackling. He reduced the receiving yards he allowed when targeted by more than half and slashed his missed tackle rate from 15.0% to 6.3% from 2023 to 2024.

Based on the above, it's a pretty easy decision to extend Joseph.

He has really improved his weaker areas over the last two years. Hoping the Branch/Joseph duo stays together for a lont time, they are very complementary with little overlap. Elite tandem.

 

[MAC_32]

Check the Mic winners and losers: The Lions are playing The Long Game in Free Agency

The outcome of the Lions free agency 2025 will be re-signing their own over the next 2-3 years. Aggressive moves now likely would have resulted in parts of the core departing.

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

The 49ers traded a buncha picks for Trey Lance and most of the ones they kept with the exception of the obvious, Purdy, flopped. That's why they are where they are now. Knowing guys like Garrett and Crosby weren't available, who would've you pushed all in for?

I don't know about Payne, but I am not asking them to go all Rams and f them picks or even blow all their money.

They should be taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman to win a Super Bowl because that is the weak spot going into this season with a really good team that can win it all. Like the Chiefs did with their offensive line, like the Eagles did with a few skill players.

Is 32 yo Grady Jarrett ~$26m better than 27 yo Levi?

Who is saying that?

You said they should be 'taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman,' but didn't name anyone. Consider this an opportunity to name some.

 

[Payne]

Check the Mic winners and losers: The Lions are playing The Long Game in Free Agency

The outcome of the Lions free agency 2025 will be re-signing their own over the next 2-3 years. Aggressive moves now likely would have resulted in parts of the core departing.

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

The 49ers traded a buncha picks for Trey Lance and most of the ones they kept with the exception of the obvious, Purdy, flopped. That's why they are where they are now. Knowing guys like Garrett and Crosby weren't available, who would've you pushed all in for?

I don't know about Payne, but I am not asking them to go all Rams and f them picks or even blow all their money.

They should be taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman to win a Super Bowl because that is the weak spot going into this season with a really good team that can win it all. Like the Chiefs did with their offensive line, like the Eagles did with a few skill players.

Is 32 yo Grady Jarrett ~$26m better than 27 yo Levi?

Who is saying that?

You said they should be 'taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman,' but didn't name anyone. Consider this an opportunity to name some.

Mack
Reddick
Bosa

Any of those over often injured Davenport

Also think they really dropped the ball with Zeitler.

 

[msudaisy26]

Check the Mic winners and losers: The Lions are playing The Long Game in Free Agency

The outcome of the Lions free agency 2025 will be re-signing their own over the next 2-3 years. Aggressive moves now likely would have resulted in parts of the core departing.

No. You make aggressive moves to win and rely on your great GM to plug those holes with cheap draft picks. Resigning everyone will be cap hell.

I just don't get how some of you can't see this.

The 49ers kept their own and look at them now.

The 49ers traded a buncha picks for Trey Lance and most of the ones they kept with the exception of the obvious, Purdy, flopped. That's why they are where they are now. Knowing guys like Garrett and Crosby weren't available, who would've you pushed all in for?

I don't know about Payne, but I am not asking them to go all Rams and f them picks or even blow all their money.

They should be taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman to win a Super Bowl because that is the weak spot going into this season with a really good team that can win it all. Like the Chiefs did with their offensive line, like the Eagles did with a few skill players.

Is 32 yo Grady Jarrett ~$26m better than 27 yo Levi?

Who is saying that?

You said they should be 'taking calculated risks on a few free agent defensive lineman,' but didn't name anyone. Consider this an opportunity to name some.

That is what you meant by that?

 

[Zeppelin]

Mack
Reddick
Bosa

Any of those over often injured Davenport
Also think they really dropped the ball with Zeitler.

Mack got $18 million, all guaranteed, from the Chargers and imo he was never leaving. He also only had 6 sacks last year and that along with his age (34) is too much money imo.

Reddick doesn't fit the type of player Holmes and Campbell want in terms of high character players. They would never sign a player like him and he's not a good scheme fit.

Bosa has barely played half the games the last 3 years. He did play in 14 games last year but wasn't all that good (only 5 sacks and 22 tackles). I might have taken a flyer on him but there is no way I would give him $12.6 million guaranteed. For me to sign him it would be half that guaranteed and the other half in games played incentives.

Davenport's guaranteed money is really low $1.65 million so that is a very low risk high reward move. If he's hurt, you don't lose much in money. When healthy, he is a very good football player. Nothing to lose there.

I wish they would have kept Zeitler but my guess is they weren't going that high in salary.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

r/NFL had some interesting charts & graphs Sunday illustrating the contributions teams received from their 2021-24 draft classes

How much value did each team get in 2024 from their recent draft picks?​

Interesting chart, very illuminating.

 

[MAC_32]

That is what you meant by that?

Yes, it was after 9 pm on St Paddy's Day. I'm pleasantly surprised I was that coherent

 

[BobbyLayne]

Folks who understand defensive schemes way better than me say Shepp (& previously AG) want pocket crushers who can set the edge on running downs. A lot of sub-250 lb speed rushers we think they should sign are the kind of guys who get swallowed up by pulling OL.

Really the only player they tried in that vein (lighter Edge with speed-to-power) was James Houston IV, and he could neither set the edge or drop off into coverage. Square peg round hole deal. They seem to prefer guys who are either speed rushers 260+ on the Edge or strong guys 285-290+. They also have a very strong preference for guys who can fulfill multiple roles in the run fits.

Pure pass rushers who can’t play the run are likely never going to be a thing unless they make a fundamental shift in their defensive philosophy. Priority #1 is stopping the run. You earn the right to rush the passer. Even then, everything is gap dependent, maintaining integrity / seal vs the rush and rushing the passer in defined lanes. They stunt/twist less than almost any team.

 

[Payne]

Mack
Reddick
Bosa

Any of those over often injured Davenport
Also think they really dropped the ball with Zeitler.

Mack got $18 million, all guaranteed, from the Chargers and imo he was never leaving. He also only had 6 sacks last year and that along with his age (34) is too much money imo.

Reddick doesn't fit the type of player Holmes and Campbell want in terms of high character players. They would never sign a player like him and he's not a good scheme fit.

Bosa has barely played half the games the last 3 years. He did play in 14 games last year but wasn't all that good (only 5 sacks and 22 tackles). I might have taken a flyer on him but there is no way I would give him $12.6 million guaranteed. For me to sign him it would be half that guaranteed and the other half in games played incentives.

Davenport's guaranteed money is really low $1.65 million so that is a very low risk high reward move. If he's hurt, you don't lose much in money. When healthy, he is a very good football player. Nothing to lose there.

I wish they would have kept Zeitler but my guess is they weren't going that high in salary.

For every opinion you just want to fire back why it's all bad. That is YOUR opinion.

In YOUR opinion Mack was never going to leave. In YOUR opinion Garrett or Crosby were never coming here.
Reality is you don't know any of that.

I could play this game with you too. Explain how they can sign free agents AND keep the majority of their own. Or draft replacements.
But that you don't want to hear. That isn't possible. Yet many other teams do it constantly. You see my point?

It isn't your way or the wrong way. Your way has just as much of a chance as any other way, right?
There is no right or wrong here. People can have different opinions. Yet some of you act like signing a big name free agent is flat out wrong.

Forget it. It's just not worth it anymore.

 

[BobbyLayne]

All that said, one of the more frustrating aspects of the defense 2021-24 has been converting pressure (which they’re good at) into sacks (which only one guy seemingly does.)

 

[Zeppelin]

In YOUR opinion Mack was never going to leave. In YOUR opinion Garrett or Crosby were never coming here.

Mack was my opinion but the Raiders and Browns both said those 2 were not being traded.

 

[msudaisy26]

In YOUR opinion Mack was never going to leave. In YOUR opinion Garrett or Crosby were never coming here.

Mack was my opinion but the Raiders and Browns both said those 2 were not being traded.

Teams back track all the time, Johnathan Taylor was given permission to seek a trade and then the Colts made the asking price too high, teams have also said they won't trade a guy to drive up value. Clearly that wasn't the case here, but had a team made some god father offer I bet Cleveland or Vegas would reconsider.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Mack
Reddick
Bosa

Any of those over often injured Davenport
Also think they really dropped the ball with Zeitler.

Mack got $18 million, all guaranteed, from the Chargers and imo he was never leaving. He also only had 6 sacks last year and that along with his age (34) is too much money imo.

Reddick doesn't fit the type of player Holmes and Campbell want in terms of high character players. They would never sign a player like him and he's not a good scheme fit.

Bosa has barely played half the games the last 3 years. He did play in 14 games last year but wasn't all that good (only 5 sacks and 22 tackles). I might have taken a flyer on him but there is no way I would give him $12.6 million guaranteed. For me to sign him it would be half that guaranteed and the other half in games played incentives.

Davenport's guaranteed money is really low $1.65 million so that is a very low risk high reward move. If he's hurt, you don't lose much in money. When healthy, he is a very good football player. Nothing to lose there.

I wish they would have kept Zeitler but my guess is they weren't going that high in salary.

For every opinion you just want to fire back why it's all bad. That is YOUR opinion.

In YOUR opinion Mack was never going to leave. In YOUR opinion Garrett or Crosby were never coming here.
Reality is you don't know any of that.

I could play this game with you too. Explain how they can sign free agents AND keep the majority of their own. Or draft replacements.
But that you don't want to hear. That isn't possible. Yet many other teams do it constantly. You see my point?

It isn't your way or the wrong way. Your way has just as much of a chance as any other way, right?
There is no right or wrong here. People can have different opinions. Yet some of you act like signing a big name free agent is flat out wrong.

Forget it. It's just not worth it anymore.

OK, cya tomorrow.

Look I don’t speak for anyone else, but it seems like you simply want a different philosophy. Your longing for a big signing doesn’t seem to match their reality. Similarly, you suggest guys who don’t fit what they are trying to accomplish on defense, e.g., you seemingly also want a different defensive philosophy.

The constraints for discussion (to my way of thinking) is we should try to view moves through the prism of their established philosophy. This is year 5, we have a pretty good idea of 1) their preferred roster construction, and 2) the style of defense they want to play.

Now you’re more than welcome to keep arguing they’re doing things wrong. But they will not have lost consecutive games in 34+ months when the 2025 season begins. I would think a .795 win percentage over a 44 game stretch would indicate they are worthy of our trust.

No one is suggesting they can do no wrong or they never err. Those men are humans just like us. But they are pretty good in their field of expertise.

 

[Zeppelin]

For every opinion you just want to fire back why it's all bad. That is YOUR opinion.

And I gave detailed reasons for each player and of course it's my opinion. Basically the 3 above players probably had too much guaranteed money for the Lions liking, especially given what Brad Holmes has said about managing the cap.

I want an edge rusher but I would not overpay for one. There's still plenty of time to get one. They will undoubtedly use a high pick on one and there will be cuts between now and the start of the season. If Holmes signs one or trades for one, it won't be a bad contract.

By the way, the Eagles lost Josh Sweat and aren't going hog wild in free agency to replace him.

 

[Zeppelin]

Teams back track all the time, Johnathan Taylor was given permission to seek a trade and then the Colts made the asking price too high, teams have also said they won't trade a guy to drive up value. Clearly that wasn't the case here, but had a team made some god father offer I bet Cleveland or Vegas would reconsider.

There is always a price that teams would accept an offer but what would that price be? At least one first plus more or maybe 2 firsts. In addition, they would want their contracts extended and that is the biggest issue because it would blow a hole in our cap. You can be great at managing the cap but there's a point where it goes from kicking some of it down the road (which might be ok) to bring reckless. The above would be reckless and irresponsible in my opinion.

 

[Zeppelin]

By the way, if this was an older team then I would go for it but this is a young team with a great core and their window is nowhere near closing.

 

[msudaisy26]

Teams back track all the time, Johnathan Taylor was given permission to seek a trade and then the Colts made the asking price too high, teams have also said they won't trade a guy to drive up value. Clearly that wasn't the case here, but had a team made some god father offer I bet Cleveland or Vegas would reconsider.

There is always a price that teams would accept an offer but what would that price be? At least one first plus more or maybe 2 firsts. In addition, they would want their contracts extended and that is the biggest issue because it would blow a hole in our cap. You can be great at managing the cap but there's a point where it goes from kicking some of it down the road (which might be ok) to bring reckless. The above would be reckless and irresponsible in my opinion.

We will have to agree to disagree. I don't think it would have ruin their cap. We will also never know because Crosby has said several times that he wants to stay in Vegas and help turn it around, Garrett got over paid to do the same thing, we have heard nothing about Micah either way and Hendricks is being held up like Taylor was.

 

[msudaisy26]

By the way, if this was an older team then I would go for it but this is a young team with a great core and their window is nowhere near closing.

It is football windows close fast unless you have an all time great at qb and as good as Goff is and has been he isn't close to Brady or Mahomes.

 

[Zeppelin]

It is football windows close fast unless you have an all time great at qb and as good as Goff is and has been he isn't close to Brady or Mahomes.

They don't close fast when you have a great core and they're almost all young. Also, nobody is as good as Brady or Mahomes.

 

[msudaisy26]

It is football windows close fast unless you have an all time great at qb and as good as Goff is and has been he isn't close to Brady or Mahomes.

They don't close fast when you have a great core and they're almost all young. Also, nobody is as good as Brady or Mahomes.

They do though, it doesn't mean they get bad or even bottom out, but they go for super bowl contenders to playoffs contenders, sometimes they make it, and maybe even win a game and sometimes they just miss.

Look at us making a break through with Brady and Mahomes!

 

[BobbyLayne]

By the way, if this was an older team then I would go for it but this is a young team with a great core and their window is nowhere near closing.

I tend to agree, they have a fantastic core on both sides of the ball. And Fipp consistently has one of the best units in the league, which he always has to do with new players each year because of roster turnover.

One way or another though, gotta keep restocking the trenches. The Not-For-Long can change fast. Legitimate concerns being raised, seems like the main disagreement is how to resolve it.

They are built to last in a way that has never been true in our lifetimes.

IMO (of course), but I have to say, the Campbell-Holmes has been consistent. This is our core philosophy, we want to be a gritty, tough team that imposes its physicality. Which is exactly what they did. The deceptive schemes & trick plays are the fun glitter stuff, but at a base level they are a physical team on offense/defense that has the speed to hurt you with explosives.

Same level of consistency with roster construction. Step 1) communicate the process, openly and transparently. Step 2) execute that process. Plug holes with short term value signings, draft for talent irrespective of needs or depth chart,

They have not deviated from the things they said they wanted to do in 2021-2022. It has worked almost to perfection, they’re the envy of any team trying to build a winner (excluding the already there teams.)

Past results are no guarantee of future performance. But it is reassuring having a competent management team making the decisions.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Forget it. It's just not worth it anymore.

Can we hold you to this?

 

[msudaisy26]

Forget it. It's just not worth it anymore.

Can we hold you to this?

Don't be like that because he disagrees with you. He shouldn't be like that either.

We are just talking here.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Forget it. It's just not worth it anymore.

Can we hold you to this?

Don't be like that because he disagrees with you. He shouldn't be like that either.

We are just talking here.

I'm not the one who said it.

 

[msudaisy26]

Forget it. It's just not worth it anymore.

Can we hold you to this?

Don't be like that because he disagrees with you. He shouldn't be like that either.

We are just talking here.

I'm not the one who said it.

No you are just needling him.