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2025 Detroit Lions: 1-1 Lion crush Da Bears. Still seats available on the Bandwagon. (180 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
As a Florida teacher, she should sell the tickets and double her salary...
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Ben Johnson just gave the Chargers a dream offensive coordinator on a silver platter
The LA Chargers didn't hire Ben Johnson as head coach and can steal one of his most important offensive coaches.
boltbeat.com
Would kinda suck if the cost of keeping Johnson is losing Engstrand and having to start a new succession plan. But I guess that’s just the way things work
Wingnut
Footballguy
Get used to coaches being poached, it's what happens to good teams.Ben Johnson just gave the Chargers a dream offensive coordinator on a silver platter
The LA Chargers didn't hire Ben Johnson as head coach and can steal one of his most important offensive coaches.
Would kinda suck if the cost of keeping Johnson is losing Engstrand and having to start a new succession plan. But I guess that’s just the way things work
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
One thing I’m not overly concerned about is Dan Campbell’s ability to hire good coaches. They have an outstanding staff. The only holdover he kept from the previous regime was Ben Johnson.
Still a bit of a head scratcher he stayed. A year ago it made sense. Was in line to take the Carolina job, mercurial owner, they had just traded up for #1, didn’t have draft capital or a good infrastructure.
What’s not to like about the Commanders job? Better QB class, draft capital, they’ve already shredded cap, blank slate with a new ownership group.
I’m of course pumped they are running it back but I’m not sure what made him say no to a pretty great opportunity. Hope it works out for him down the road. Ben is not just an offensive guru, he’s an elite communicator, fits his offense to player’s strengths, he’s the kind of boss people love to work for bc it’s a collaborative partnership.
Still a bit of a head scratcher he stayed. A year ago it made sense. Was in line to take the Carolina job, mercurial owner, they had just traded up for #1, didn’t have draft capital or a good infrastructure.
What’s not to like about the Commanders job? Better QB class, draft capital, they’ve already shredded cap, blank slate with a new ownership group.
I’m of course pumped they are running it back but I’m not sure what made him say no to a pretty great opportunity. Hope it works out for him down the road. Ben is not just an offensive guru, he’s an elite communicator, fits his offense to player’s strengths, he’s the kind of boss people love to work for bc it’s a collaborative partnership.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Right, but what sucks about this is that a year from now they could be without both coaches. But I get what you’re saying. As a Niners fan, you saw Saleh and Ryans leave in quick successionGet used to coaches being poached, it's what happens to good teams.Ben Johnson just gave the Chargers a dream offensive coordinator on a silver platter
The LA Chargers didn't hire Ben Johnson as head coach and can steal one of his most important offensive coaches.
Would kinda suck if the cost of keeping Johnson is losing Engstrand and having to start a new succession plan. But I guess that’s just the way things work
massraider
Footballguy
The way it was portrayed during the playoffs games was as a foregone conclusion. We have definitely seen that before, where everyone knows once Team X is eliminated, Coach Y will be taking over for Team Z. Pretty unusual for these deals to not happen once they reach the 'open secret' level. I cannot remember any offhand, but obviously, deals have fallen apart at the last minute before.
Adam Schefter:
Ben Johnson was not the head-coaching lock that people thought and his asking price spooked some teams, per sources.
Schefter tweets that after some DC reporter announces Ben Johnson is out on the NFL jobs. We didn't hear anything like this before Johnson announced he wasn't taking a HC job.
I would not be surprised if it wasn't the money, but the offset language. Coaches get fired, and they collect their full contract, plus whatever they get at their next job. The team wants to be able to fire these guys after two years, but not pay the full guarantees. It is definitely an eyebrow raiser that the Josh Harris couldn't get the deal done, financially. You would think they would be fine with a little overpay. Even if you do, no one really cares.
Maybe that new Harbaugh deal made BJ up his price?? I thought about that.
In terms of the WAS job, there is a bunch of unknowns. They don't have a QB, and no one knows what kind of ownership they have. Better than Snyder. Definitely. For sure. But they might still be below average to terrible to......Tepper.
If they take Drake Maye, and he's Zach Wilson, and Josh Harris is Woody Johnson, maybe that's a terrible job.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Schefter trades on information. An agent or owner feeds him “inside info” which he relays verbatim. Somebody wanted to control the narrative.
Maybe he really likes it in Detroit working for Dan. Maybe he doesn’t really want to be a HC. I know that’s a foreign concept to most but not everyone wants all of the headaches that come along with being the HC. Not everyone who coaches in the NFL is hardwired the same way. Who knows, maybe his wife wants the stability of being in the same community. Or maybe he really did ask for $15M but he didn’t want to leave so he asks for a ridiculous number & they make the decision for him.
massraider
Footballguy
Yeah, kinda smells like BJ said I am out, and WAS is spinning this
Schefter trades on information. An agent or owner feeds him “inside info” which he relays verbatim. Somebody wanted to control the narrative.
Maybe he really likes it in Detroit working for Dan. Maybe he doesn’t really want to be a HC. I know that’s a foreign concept to most but not everyone wants all of the headaches that come along with being the HC. Not everyone who coaches in the NFL is hardwired the same way. Who knows, maybe his wife wants the stability of being in the same community. Or maybe he really did ask for $15M but he didn’t want to leave so he asks for a ridiculous number & they make the decision for him.
Ben's current salary is not publicly known. It is probably north of $1 million and south of $3 million. For a rookie HC, I could see Washington wanting to offer in the $5 million range. Certainly numbers played a role. But the reality was, Ben needed a bigger raise to uproot his family and leave a great gig, and the new Washington management was probably playing hardball on their salary number which turned off Ben.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Amon-Ra said on his podcast that Ben called him at 9:30 a.m. yesterday. Johnson said he hadn’t slept much the night before, there is unfinished business and he’s staying another year.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Remember when the Lions went 5 years without a player reaching 100 yards rushing in a game?
They had 5 this year:
David Montgomery
Week 4 - 121 yards
Week 5 - 109 yards
Week 10 - 116 yards
Jahmyr Gibbs
Week 8 - 152 yards
Week 15 - 100 yards
They had 5 this year:
David Montgomery
Week 4 - 121 yards
Week 5 - 109 yards
Week 10 - 116 yards
Jahmyr Gibbs
Week 8 - 152 yards
Week 15 - 100 yards
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
It might have already been covered, but going into FA the Lions have the 7th most cap space out of the 32 teams . Of the 6 teams ahead of them only Washington (at #1) is in the NFC.
www.pff.com
2024 NFL Salary Cap Tracker: All 32 NFL teams ranked by cap space
Here is how all 32 NFL teams currently stand, keeping in mind that cap space is a constantly changing number as teams maneuver throughout the offseason.
www.pff.com
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’m not sure what the market looks like but a legit CB1 is a screaming need. We tried to address it with values last year and it just didn’t work.It might have already been covered, but going into FA the Lions have the 7th most cap space out of the 32 teams . Of the 6 teams ahead of them only Washington (at #1) is in the NFC.
2024 NFL Salary Cap Tracker: All 32 NFL teams ranked by cap space
Here is how all 32 NFL teams currently stand, keeping in mind that cap space is a constantly changing number as teams maneuver throughout the offseason.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Franchise tag ($18.8m) seems likely
L’Jarius Sneed probably hits the open market; his projection is 3-yrs 52.5M $35m GTD
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Snead would be a very nice addition. 27 so those 3 years should be prime.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
All 3 Detroit coordinators will return.
Ben Johnson tied for the longest-tenured OC in the league.
Aaron Glenn tied for the 3rd-longest tenured DC in the league.
(I wasn’t able to find a STC list but Dave Fipp is going his 4th year with Detroit; he was the Eagles coordinator for 8 years prior to coming here.)
10 Head Coaches have been with their team longer than Dan Campbell.
Ben Johnson tied for the longest-tenured OC in the league.
Aaron Glenn tied for the 3rd-longest tenured DC in the league.
(I wasn’t able to find a STC list but Dave Fipp is going his 4th year with Detroit; he was the Eagles coordinator for 8 years prior to coming here.)
10 Head Coaches have been with their team longer than Dan Campbell.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
By a vote of their peers, Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes were chosen as The Sporting News 2023 NFL Coach of the Year and 2023 NFL Executive of the Year.
The instability around the league in coordinator and HC positions had to play into Ben staying. Ben has a job here for as long as he wants.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Yeah they seem to have a sustainable system in place for the inevitable movement of coaches. I really like the new d line coach they just hired today.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I wonder how much David Tepper had to do with Ben staying in Detroit for another year. He has to look at what happened to Reich and think, "There but for the grace of God go I." I could see that making him even more cautious about not leaving if he's anything less than 100% confident in the new situation
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I don't know if that's true, but it's totally plausible. I always assume that anyone leaking to Schefty has an agenda. Remember the time Dalvin Cook's agent tried to get out ahead of a domestic abuse allegation by getting Schefter to write that Cook's ex was cray-cray?Yeah, kinda smells like BJ said I am out, and WAS is spinning this
Schefter trades on information. An agent or owner feeds him “inside info” which he relays verbatim. Somebody wanted to control the narrative.
Maybe he really likes it in Detroit working for Dan. Maybe he doesn’t really want to be a HC. I know that’s a foreign concept to most but not everyone wants all of the headaches that come along with being the HC. Not everyone who coaches in the NFL is hardwired the same way. Who knows, maybe his wife wants the stability of being in the same community. Or maybe he really did ask for $15M but he didn’t want to leave so he asks for a ridiculous number & they make the decision for him.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
After the game on Sunday, I said that I was bummed, but also that I simply don't get as emotionally invested in sports like I did when I was younger. (You should have seen me storming around the house and breaking things after Bird stole the ball in the '87 Eastern Conference Finals). But I realized today that the result actually did hit me pretty hard; it was just more of a slow burn. I've been kind of moping around all week and have been incredibly unproductive at work. I also can't remember the last time I had so little interest in a Super Bowl matchup
I have high confidence this organization has turned the corner and will put out legitimate contenders for the foreseeable future. My biggest disappointment was that the Las Vegas setting was super cool for a Super Bowl and would have been so much fun.
Brad and Dan well deserved their awards for the job they have done. When we fired Caldwell, I thought it was stupid because Detroit did not have the ability to attract a top coach. But after the Patricia disaster, Sheila was somehow able to find two gems to turn Detroit into a football destination for coaches and talent.
Brad and Dan well deserved their awards for the job they have done. When we fired Caldwell, I thought it was stupid because Detroit did not have the ability to attract a top coach. But after the Patricia disaster, Sheila was somehow able to find two gems to turn Detroit into a football destination for coaches and talent.
I see nothing wrong with Ben saying I need $12 or $15 million or whatever to leave here. It is not Ben being a Diva, it is Ben saying I love my position and what we have going on here in Detroit. Schefter is being a cuck to spin stories for NFL teams and not even attempt to get a comment from Ben.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Assume you mean Stephon? Steven Gilmore, his kid brother, is already on the Lions, where he barely plays
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Assuming he still has something left -- IIRC he looked good this year in Dallas -- I think I'd prefer someone like him over Sneed. I just hate paying at the top of the FA market. The best signings are always the decent guys who teams wait out through the initial gold rush and then sign to cheaper deals a few weeks later
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I agree. High-end one-year rentals make a lot of sense for the Lions this offseason. They've got space for now, but the bills start rolling in for Holmes' draft picks in 25, and I'd hate for a core guy to become a cap casualty because we overpaid for a shiny toy.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The Lions seem to be on everyone's minds, many of the most popular threads here seem to involve them.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Nope
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I think maybe he knows that QB is everything, and Washington doesn't have one. They don't just show up out of nowhere, so the possibility that they don't have a viable one in the future is very real.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Good luck, Teddy: https://x.com/whiticar/status/1753487375555334594?s=46&t=QBN6NSNmFw6g7C0xqBnz2A
ETA: And welcome back!
ETA: And welcome back!
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Moonlight
Footballguy
That’s how I feel as well except it hit me Monday. I’m 73 years old and don’t know how many more chances the Lions will have. But I do have the memory of listening to the 57 championship game on my father’s transistor radio on my grandmother’s front porch steps.
The analogy to what happened to the Pistons is a good one. Had our hearts ripped out when victory was so close.
That Pistons team then lost in the finals the next year on the phantom Bill Laimbeer foul.
Those Piston teams went through a lot of adversity before winning consecutive championships. Hopefully Lions can do the same
The complex magic of salary cap and the moves the Lions should be working on.
IMO two easiest cuts are Tracey Walker and John Cominski, which will free up about $10 million in cap space ($19 million in salary savings minus $9 million in dead cap money).
Guys I would probably not resign would be Romeo Okwara, CJGJ, Vaitai, and Charles Harris. If the price was right, I might reconsider Vaitai or CJGJ. But their production did not come close to justifying at their current price. They all contribute about $11.3 milllion in dead cap money in 2024, but that is sunk money regardless.
I think Goff is a lock for an extension. Current year is at $33 million cap hit with only $5 million in dead cap. I would target something in the 4-year $160 range with at least one option/voidable year to keep the cap hit around the same level. That gives him a $7 million raise for next season over his existing contract, so effectively is like a $42 million offer for years 2 thru 4. I don't think I am interested in Goff at anything above $45 million per year.
Saint is perhaps the highest priority for an extension, as he earns only $1.25 million next season before becoming a free agent. Now is the time to pay him before he hits the free market and we still have some leverage. I would dangle about a 4-year $80-85 million offer in from of him. That gives him a huge $20 million raise over his current number for next year. He could wait and get a bigger number in the open market next season, but he would have to get a 3-year $80 million contract just to come out even, which is probably close to what his market value will be. I think it would be wise for St. Brown to get the money now and not risk injury or something that might decrease his value. And he is still young enough to have one more huge payday after that contract runs out.
Penei makes a decent amount at $7.67 million, but way under his market value. I would put some feelers out to him, but since we still have an additional option year which of course we will exercise, it is not as urgent. But I would applaud the Lions if they could get something done here.
Iffy and Alim are two pieces we should extend. Both were valuable pieces and are coming to the end of their rookie deals set to make $1.4 and $1.6 million in 2024. I am not sure their market values, but I would try to lock them up for 2 or 3 additional years. But not a priority.
Glasgow needs to be resigned. He want one and deserves a raise. Guessing ww sign him the $4-5.5 million range.
Jonah Jackson is a tougher one. It sounds like he is looking for as big of a contract as possible. Maybe for $6-7 million, we resign him. I am guessing he goes somewhere else for $9-10 million.
Probably pick up Josh Reynolds for another year in the $3 million range.
The Lions currently have an estimated $60 plus million in cap space for next season. With the two cuts that goes up to $70 million. I don't think the Goff extension will not impact the cap space that much if they structure it right. Depending on the structure, St. Brown's deal would take about $15 to $20 million from the cap space. Iffy and Alim could eat up another $10 to 15 million together. After all this, we would be looking at having maybe $30 million for free agents. Probably missing some things, but that is my first cut at the off-season moves.
IMO two easiest cuts are Tracey Walker and John Cominski, which will free up about $10 million in cap space ($19 million in salary savings minus $9 million in dead cap money).
Guys I would probably not resign would be Romeo Okwara, CJGJ, Vaitai, and Charles Harris. If the price was right, I might reconsider Vaitai or CJGJ. But their production did not come close to justifying at their current price. They all contribute about $11.3 milllion in dead cap money in 2024, but that is sunk money regardless.
I think Goff is a lock for an extension. Current year is at $33 million cap hit with only $5 million in dead cap. I would target something in the 4-year $160 range with at least one option/voidable year to keep the cap hit around the same level. That gives him a $7 million raise for next season over his existing contract, so effectively is like a $42 million offer for years 2 thru 4. I don't think I am interested in Goff at anything above $45 million per year.
Saint is perhaps the highest priority for an extension, as he earns only $1.25 million next season before becoming a free agent. Now is the time to pay him before he hits the free market and we still have some leverage. I would dangle about a 4-year $80-85 million offer in from of him. That gives him a huge $20 million raise over his current number for next year. He could wait and get a bigger number in the open market next season, but he would have to get a 3-year $80 million contract just to come out even, which is probably close to what his market value will be. I think it would be wise for St. Brown to get the money now and not risk injury or something that might decrease his value. And he is still young enough to have one more huge payday after that contract runs out.
Penei makes a decent amount at $7.67 million, but way under his market value. I would put some feelers out to him, but since we still have an additional option year which of course we will exercise, it is not as urgent. But I would applaud the Lions if they could get something done here.
Iffy and Alim are two pieces we should extend. Both were valuable pieces and are coming to the end of their rookie deals set to make $1.4 and $1.6 million in 2024. I am not sure their market values, but I would try to lock them up for 2 or 3 additional years. But not a priority.
Glasgow needs to be resigned. He want one and deserves a raise. Guessing ww sign him the $4-5.5 million range.
Jonah Jackson is a tougher one. It sounds like he is looking for as big of a contract as possible. Maybe for $6-7 million, we resign him. I am guessing he goes somewhere else for $9-10 million.
Probably pick up Josh Reynolds for another year in the $3 million range.
The Lions currently have an estimated $60 plus million in cap space for next season. With the two cuts that goes up to $70 million. I don't think the Goff extension will not impact the cap space that much if they structure it right. Depending on the structure, St. Brown's deal would take about $15 to $20 million from the cap space. Iffy and Alim could eat up another $10 to 15 million together. After all this, we would be looking at having maybe $30 million for free agents. Probably missing some things, but that is my first cut at the off-season moves.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
I agree with everything here except that I think Alim is a major priority. He's our best interior defender and probably the 2nd best defensive player on the team. We don't have anyone else with the athleticism he has in the middle and who can generate interior pressure. Those players are extremely difficult to find and he needs to be made a building block of this team. Also, it seems like we might have finally unlocked Iffy and he could signed longterm at a value. His poor early career play should limit his cost but he showed the potential to be a difference maker.
I hope I'm wrong but I would be shocked if Goff doesn't get (close to) 50 per. That would make for a very short window.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
This is extremely wishful thinking. Unless Goff gives a discount then he is going to be around 50 million. There is no way he should be paid like Daniel Jones, David Carr or Geno Smith.
Glasgow is going to be in the 6 to 7 million range.
Sewell is probably the best RT in the game. He is going to reset that market. Probably close to 25 a year.
Alim should be a massive priority, CJGJ injury won't be held against him for his production on the open market. He may have to sign another one year prove it deal, but it will be in the same range as last year.
But yet you think we should pay him much more than Allen, Mahomes, Prescott, Stafford and Rogers. I really don't care there are a few stupid contracts out there. Market value for Goff is around $40 million. Carr is only getting $37.5 and he had a pretty solid year. Geno Smith is $25 million (3 year $75 million). Which again puts Goff in the $40 million range. If you base salaries on Daniel Jones contract, Mahomes needs to be making over $100 million. I really don't see any reasonable analysis which puts Goff at $50 million plus per year. Crazy.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
For someone that follows football you should know better how qb contracts work. This is just lazy by you. Look at when the contracts were signed. The market doesn't go down or even stay level for qbs. It always goes up. All those guys listed as better than Goff all signed deals more than 2 years ago.
If Mahomes or Allen were up this year they would 60 million. Stafford or Dak would get 50+
Rogers signed a 2-year $75 million deal 6 months ago.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
He is 100
That is a fair point.
