4 WR with tremendous value you can draft late (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

Lots of people talk about sleeper WR, and really anyone can just pick anybody from any team running with the 3rd string and say here is a good sleeper. Problem is most of those WR simply stay asleep and never wake up for the season.

What I look for is certainly opportunity but also I want to find someone that has shown they could make it happen when they have been on the field. Even if that chance was brief...and maybe was just a 1-2 game span...remember if they were that good they wouldn't be in the sleeper category.

I have had a few drafts so far this season and most of these guys I am going to mention will be drafted way way late...if at all. So I would say these are guys that you don't plan on starting too often but thye have all had some success and when you combine 2-3 of them on your roster late on a 20 man roster you just might have something. I see guys waste picks on 3rd string RBs for teams they don't even have the starters for...I think that's a waste when you can actually get guys that will produce.

OK so here are 4 WR I think given the present circumstances and what might happen in front of them will way outproduce where they are going int he draft.

Doug Gabriel WR Oak: ADP 16.09...Guppy League 20th round.

This guy is going to get a golden opp soon. Porter doesn't seem to want to play with the Raiders. If that's the case and even if porter cannot be traded, the likelihood of him doing well are low. Maybe Porter does a TO and gets himself suspended. Al Davis has acted like he would like to move Porter as well.

Gabriel last season had 4 games of 5 or more catches as essentially a backup or WR3. Now Ronald Curry was not in the mix last season due to injury but he is still not 100% and ready to go so Doug is going to be either the WR2 or WR3. Oakland has an awful defense and will be playing from behind all season.

5/84, 5/101, 5/58/1, 8/100/1, those type of performances show you when he has been pushed into duty he can respond.

Justin McCareins WR NYJ: ADP 17.03

Not exciting but the jets seem like they are going to have a hard time running the ball. If you read Chase's QBBC article you know that the NYJ have the easiest pass schedule int he league. Penny is on track to recover so why not take a late round flyer on this guy. Forget the Reggie Williams of the world, go for a guy that will have some opp to flourish. He has avg 50 rec 750 yds and 3 TD the past 2 years in New York and Penny has not been real healthy a majority of the time. he has had Brooks Bollinger throwing him the ball for pete's sake. "Didn't you notice on the plane I started reading the Vomit Bag?"

He has good value this late inthe draft and will be starting. How many starters you gonna find this late in the draft?

Bobby Engram WR Seattle: ADP 16.02, Guppy leagues outside of Washington, 20th round

Engram is 33 years old, only about 5'10", and is sorta slow...but he has glue for hands and Holgrem loves him...so does Hass as he also dug JJ last season...anyone that can hang onto his crisp passes. DJax is hurt right now...sounds like he might not be ready to go. Bobby has missed some time too the past 2 years but here is what he has done on the field.

8/79, 5/77, 5/54, 9/106, 6/70, 6/93, 6/34, 6/65/2, 6/95...folks those are really nice stats from a guy in almost the last round. Forget that rookie backing up Dunn in the 19th round...get this guy and trade him when he has a few nice games...or keep him for your bye week fillers. Total gold this late int he draft.

Corey Bradford WR Detroit: ADP 17.06, Guppy leagues...undrafted

Now I poked a swipe at MT Scupper last week when he bragged about getting this guy in a lot of his leagues so far...thank god "Mr Apartment" is willing to admit when he has made a mistake. I still think it will be hard for him to hold the position all season however, Martz has an up and coming star opposite him and maybe he just needs someone to catch the stuff underneath. Bradford does not have hands of glue like Engram above but he will be palying in an offense that has high expectations.

If he is on the field all season in a Mike Martz offense...it's hard to come up with a number for this guy. But I'll tease you with this.

17.2, 17.0, 15.5, 19.2, 14.8 those were his ypc from 1999-2004...in 2005 his ypc dropped a lot but I attribute that to the poor offense he was in as much as anything. Some of those seasons were in Houston and that makes it even that much more impressive. You could argue if this guy gets 3-4 catches a game, he could end the season with about 56 rec, 800+ yds, and 4-6TD...again for this late in the draft you can't go wrong.

Honorable Mention

I have one guy who I simply want to highlight. He is entering his 3rd season. he has played with some great WR but is going to be playing with maybe the best in the NFL this seaon. The WR starting ahead of him are both around 32-33 years old and could see some time away with injury. One of them is having a rough camp so far and can only ride a tricycle(cough cough), sorry, stationary bike. Cowboys fans know who I am talking about and that is Patrick Crayton. As a 2nd year player last season he posted 18 rec 270 yds, and 2 TDs the first 6 weeks of the season. He was on pace for 48/720/5TDs

Think about it folks. He might have to start at some point and I watched him in the opener against San Diego last season...he sure looked like an "NFL" WR if you know what I mean...some guys have that extra little twinkle in their game...I felt i saw it from Crayton last season. Would love to hear form anyone that actually watched this guy play at NW Oklahoma State...I'm sure there's a big following of those people on these boards.

There have been sleeper articles written but I wanted to highlight a few with some stats as well. Enjoy, and feel free to add some more but please tell us why you see them as a sleeper with a few stats maybe as well.

Thanks all.

 

[EBF]

:X

 

[TheLastDispatch]

Nice thoughts, but I'm not sure I'm with you on the McCarreins pick.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Nice thoughts, but I'm not sure I'm with you on the McCarreins pick.

I didn't say you have to take all 4 but who are you going to find that late with any upside? 750 yds the past 2 seasons with Bollinger throwing last season, C'MON!I'm not saying he will lead you to the championship but if the jets are throwing a lot and Penny's arm is healthy, and they have a fairly easy pass schedule...Mangini is young and not going to just roll over for other teams, he wants to make a name for himself. I don't think you can go wrong that late in the draft.

 

[bjabrad]

Wow, bold picks but Ministry of Pain hold a lot of credibility on this forum for me.

I haven't even started looking at depth charts yet but I do have confidence in Engram as a consistent #3 and maybe more if somebody else gets hurt like what happend last year in SEA.

Note to self: File these picks away for future research.

 

[Interseptopus]

Engram could be a good contributor, especially in PPR leagues. He gets a lot of receptions but doesn't have eye popping stats

The Bradford bandwagon is going to be getting pretty heavy soon, so the cat is almost out of the bag on that one. I've liked him since he was the slot WR in GB. He was used in that role similarily as Martz used Hakim in the slot. I can see him being very productive for a bench player or free agent.

Gabriel's bandwagon is going to get crowded too.

I hate how the term "sleeper" is thrown around so much, but I truely believe that you've nailed a few on the head. Unfortunately I think McCareins has run out of chances on the sleeper list.

Good posting

 

[Ministry of Pain]

:X

"Didn't you notice on the plane I started reading the Vomit Bag? Wasn't that some sort of clue like hey maybe this guy isn't enjoying what I'm saying. You choose things that are amusing or mildly funny. Your a miracle! Your stories have none of that. Their not even amusing accidentally!"

 

[Evilgrin 72]

:X

"Didn't you notice on the plane I started reading the Vomit Bag? Wasn't that some sort of clue like hey maybe this guy isn't enjoying what I'm saying. You choose things that are amusing or mildly funny. Your a miracle! Your stories have none of that. Their not even amusing accidentally!"

You know, everything is not an anecdote. You have to discriminate.I think that was left out of the middle of that.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

:X

"Didn't you notice on the plane I started reading the Vomit Bag? Wasn't that some sort of clue like hey maybe this guy isn't enjoying what I'm saying. You choose things that are amusing or mildly funny. Your a miracle! Your stories have none of that. Their not even amusing accidentally!"

You know, everything is not an anecdote. You have to discriminate.I think that was left out of the middle of that.

here here

 

[EBF]

:X

"Didn't you notice on the plane I started reading the Vomit Bag? Wasn't that some sort of clue like hey maybe this guy isn't enjoying what I'm saying. You choose things that are amusing or mildly funny. Your a miracle! Your stories have none of that. Their not even amusing accidentally!"

Yea, sorry, that wasn't a very constructive post. Here's a better effort:I don't like these picks. Gabriel - He could be decent with Porter out of town, but I'm not entirely sure that he's better than Curry and Morant. McCareins - He seems to be in the doghouse and some people expect Cotchery to start. McCareins offers little value outside of best ball leagues. Engram - Last year looks like a bit of a fluke. He's the 3rd-4th best WR on his team and if Jackson is healthy then I think Engram will be back to slot duty.Corey Bradford - I'm still not buying him as a WR2. He's never had over 700 receiving yards in his career. These guys might be decent depth picks, but I don't think any of them offer real breakout potential.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

:X

"Didn't you notice on the plane I started reading the Vomit Bag? Wasn't that some sort of clue like hey maybe this guy isn't enjoying what I'm saying. You choose things that are amusing or mildly funny. Your a miracle! Your stories have none of that. Their not even amusing accidentally!"

Yea, sorry, that wasn't a very constructive post. Here's a better effort:I don't like these picks. Gabriel - He could be decent with Porter out of town, but I'm not entirely sure that he's better than Curry and Morant. McCareins - He seems to be in the doghouse and some people expect Cotchery to start. McCareins offers little value outside of best ball leagues. Engram - Last year looks like a bit of a fluke. He's the 3rd-4th best WR on his team and if Jackson is healthy then I think Engram will be back to slot duty.Corey Bradford - I'm still not buying him as a WR2. He's never had over 700 receiving yards in his career. These guys might be decent depth picks, but I don't think any of them offer real breakout potential.

Gabriel: I highlighted what he did when given the opp. he's young, Curry is not 100% from all reports...hasn't even been able to practice so far for Art Shell...who doesn't know if he's good or bad...but he has seen Doug Gabriel practicing a lot and he's starting at this point. McCareins: He's in the doghouse? This may very well be true but I have not read where mangini didn't like him. Starter on a team that will need to pass and has a favorable schedule...see Gabriel above.Engram: Nothing that says he isn't starting...I have seen Burleson going off the board in the 7th-9th rounds...I bet Engram has similar if not better stats at the end of the year and look where you can get him. With Joe Jurevicious gone Hass will rely on someone he knows can catch the ball..i actually see Engram's stats going up a bit. Bradford: He has been annointed the starter...so what if he never had 700 yds for the season. he has had games like 4/101/1, 5/71/1, he had 5 TD for Houston last season. We just disagree in what is good late round value...I'd be interested in reading what you think is worth a flyer in the 16th-20th rounds.

 

[Sidewinder]

...

McCareins: He's in the doghouse? This may very well be true but I have not read where mangini didn't like him. Starter on a team that will need to pass and has a favorable schedule...see Gabriel above.

...

WR Jerricho Cotchery has looked really good in the early days of Jets training camp and, if he keeps it up, we hear he could push Justin McCareins for the starting split-end spot opposite Laveranues Coles. Coach Eric Mangini is a fan of Cotchery’s, naming him the Jets’ most outstanding player in the offseason program. Cotchery gives some of the credit for his emergence in his third year to new Jets WR coach Noel Mazzone, who was the offensive coordinator at North Carolina State when Cotchery was breaking many of the school’s receiving records that had been set by Torry Holt. Word is Cotchery has shown more toughness and speed than McCareins, who started in Mangini’s doghouse for failing the team’s conditioning test. Cotchery is tough, runs good routes, is physical and possesses good hands — exactly the kind of receiver that Mangini likes.

Link

 

[EBF]

We just disagree in what is good late round value...I'd be interested in reading what you think is worth a flyer in the 16th-20th rounds.

I'd be looking to draft players who actually have a chance to start for a winning FF team. The guys you listed might be value relative to their ADP, but they're all bye-week fillers at best (IMO). The WR ranks are pretty thin late in the draft, but there are still some potential steals out there. I'd take a gamble on guys like Travis Taylor, Chad Jackson, Bernard Berrian, and Charles Rogers over the players you listed.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

...

McCareins: He's in the doghouse? This may very well be true but I have not read where mangini didn't like him. Starter on a team that will need to pass and has a favorable schedule...see Gabriel above.

...

WR Jerricho Cotchery has looked really good in the early days of Jets training camp and, if he keeps it up, we hear he could push Justin McCareins for the starting split-end spot opposite Laveranues Coles. Coach Eric Mangini is a fan of Cotchery’s, naming him the Jets’ most outstanding player in the offseason program. Cotchery gives some of the credit for his emergence in his third year to new Jets WR coach Noel Mazzone, who was the offensive coordinator at North Carolina State when Cotchery was breaking many of the school’s receiving records that had been set by Torry Holt. Word is Cotchery has shown more toughness and speed than McCareins, who started in Mangini’s doghouse for failing the team’s conditioning test. Cotchery is tough, runs good routes, is physical and possesses good hands — exactly the kind of receiver that Mangini likes.

Link

Very cool, thank you Sidewinder...I still stand by the McCareins pick late but he was my least favorite...I was originally going to go with Crayton and leave him off, then I slipped Crayton down to honarable mention

 

[Ministry of Pain]

We just disagree in what is good late round value...I'd be interested in reading what you think is worth a flyer in the 16th-20th rounds.

I'd be looking to draft players who actually have a chance to start for a winning FF team. The guys you listed might be value relative to their ADP, but they're all bye-week fillers at best (IMO). The WR ranks are pretty thin late in the draft, but there are still some potential steals out there. I'd take a gamble on guys like Travis Taylor, Chad Jackson, Bernard Berrian, and Charles Rogers over the players you listed.

Of the 4 you brought up I do like 1 of them. Travis Taylor is interesting but Brad Johnson is really not that good anymore. Even when he was winning last season he looked more like Steve DeBerg to me...the older Steve Deberg.Charles Rogers is running 3rd team with Detroit...you would rather have him over the present starter in Bradford? I don't know how mmuch more I can drive that point home so I'll stop.Bernard Berrian plays on the Bears...you would have to go back to 1999 to find a WR2 that had any kind of real success on the Chicago Bears and that WR is mentioned in my thread uptop.Chad Jackson: Certainly one of the rookies that could see some real playing time this season but he is a rookie and it is NE and they spread it out a lot. 32/500/3 would probably seem pretty successful on that team this season.I'm not trying to come over the top of you. I read what your saying, it's cool and what makes FF fun, the differing of player rankings.

 

[EBF]

We just disagree in what is good late round value...I'd be interested in reading what you think is worth a flyer in the 16th-20th rounds.

I'd be looking to draft players who actually have a chance to start for a winning FF team. The guys you listed might be value relative to their ADP, but they're all bye-week fillers at best (IMO). The WR ranks are pretty thin late in the draft, but there are still some potential steals out there. I'd take a gamble on guys like Travis Taylor, Chad Jackson, Bernard Berrian, and Charles Rogers over the players you listed.

Of the 4 you brought up I do like 1 of them. Travis Taylor is interesting but Brad Johnson is really not that good anymore. Even when he was winning last season he looked more like Steve DeBerg to me...the older Steve Deberg.Charles Rogers is running 3rd team with Detroit...you would rather have him over the present starter in Bradford? I don't know how mmuch more I can drive that point home so I'll stop.Bernard Berrian plays on the Bears...you would have to go back to 1999 to find a WR2 that had any kind of real success on the Chicago Bears and that WR is mentioned in my thread uptop.Chad Jackson: Certainly one of the rookies that could see some real playing time this season but he is a rookie and it is NE and they spread it out a lot. 32/500/3 would probably seem pretty successful on that team this season.I'm not trying to come over the top of you. I read what your saying, it's cool and what makes FF fun, the differing of player rankings.

I think it's just a matter of approach. I expect McCareins to have more receptions/yards than most of the guys I listed, but I think the guys on my list have a better chance of becoming 1,000 yard types. My best teams have never won because they had a good WR5 who got 50 catches for 700 yards. My best teams have won because of late finds like Michael Clayton. In my opinion, the players I listed all have a much greater chance of a true breakout season, even though they're longshots. As far as Rogers goes, I'd still argue that he's much more talented than Bradford and that he offers much more upside. I view it as kind of a Mike Bell/Tatum Bell thing. One guy may be on the top of the depth chart today, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's the one to have on your FF team.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Nice thoughts, but I'm not sure I'm with you on the McCarreins pick.

 

[wannabee]

The WRs I like in this category are:

Reche Caldwell, NE -> ADP 233 overall

Amani Toomer, NYG -> ADP 166 overall

Samie Parker, KC ->ADP 187 overall

Greg Jennings, GB -> ADP 224 overall

 

[msommer]

We just disagree in what is good late round value...I'd be interested in reading what you think is worth a flyer in the 16th-20th rounds.

I'd be looking to draft players who actually have a chance to start for a winning FF team. The guys you listed might be value relative to their ADP, but they're all bye-week fillers at best (IMO). The WR ranks are pretty thin late in the draft, but there are still some potential steals out there. I'd take a gamble on guys like Travis Taylor, Chad Jackson, Bernard Berrian, and Charles Rogers over the players you listed.

From what I've read lately TT is WR4 on the Vikes, behing Troy Williamson and Marcus Robinson. He's also bee underwhelming whereever he has played. Carles Rogers should be WR5/6 today on the Lions, so I think if I was to stock up a team today I'd pass (I don't do draft leagues anymore so 16th round flyers mean nothing to me).The latest auction (16 teams, idp, 25 man roster) I was in pretty recently had Isaac Bruce fall to my team at 2% of the cap value. I was shocked. In June in a similar format he cost about 5%. In July in a 32 teamer he cost 9%.While he may not be top 20 WR material anymore - I think that represents value.

 

[DoubleG]

Unfortunately, when I saw the title of thread, there was one that came to mind - and you mentioned him at the end. I think Patrick Crayton is a solid sleeper pick that is WAY down most draft lists. As MOP mentioned, he not only plays behind 2 - 32+ year old starters (one of whom occasionally has "issues" with coaches/management/the league - which can turn into "vacations"), but also on a team with a solid QB. He showed flashes of very good play last year before getting hurt. If you're in a dynasty/big keep league - he's a very underated player, imo.

I'm not sure if Vincent Jackson would count as a sleeper - but as he is currently 4th (which really means 5th with Gates) on SD depth chart, he would certainly qualify in my book. At 6' 5" and 241 lbs. he could be a nice red zone alternative, if Rivers ever looks to anyone else other than Gates. He has been said to have had a great camp and some sources (Rotoworld) say he could challenge Parker before the preseason wraps up.

It's always fun to throw in the WR3 on Oakland as a last round flier. Mainly because Moss is getting older and has had leg problems as of late and Porter is...well...an idiot. Another factor in choosing a decent sleeper WR is a guy who plays on a team that has a bad defense - Oakland will likely live up to that this season as well.

I also think Dante Hall may be an option. Herm seems to love him and wants to get the ball in his hands more. With Gonzo having to block more, it makes sense that KC WRs are going to catch a few more passes than usual, as Gonzo won't be targeted quite as often. Of course, if you would consider Samie Parker a sleeper, he would work too.

That's 4 - even if the first one was in the original post.

 

[cr8f]

Engram could be a good contributor, especially in PPR leagues. He gets a lot of receptions but doesn't have eye popping statsThe Bradford bandwagon is going to be getting pretty heavy soon, so the cat is almost out of the bag on that one. I've liked him since he was the slot WR in GB. He was used in that role similarily as Martz used Hakim in the slot. I can see him being very productive for a bench player or free agent.Good posting

Bradford is a great practice player, but don't trust him too far in real games. I like Lloyd better. Engram too.

 

[cr8f]

We just disagree in what is good late round value...I'd be interested in reading what you think is worth a flyer in the 16th-20th rounds.

I'd be looking to draft players who actually have a chance to start for a winning FF team. The guys you listed might be value relative to their ADP, but they're all bye-week fillers at best (IMO). The WR ranks are pretty thin late in the draft, but there are still some potential steals out there. I'd take a gamble on guys like Travis Taylor, Chad Jackson, Bernard Berrian, and Charles Rogers over the players you listed.

Like Galloway last year.

 

[rascal]

Everybody knows about Joey Galloway last year, but who were the late round steals of previous years?

I like McCareins (what Mop said), Gabriel (although his ADP is rising), Bradford (#2 in Martz system always does well), Reche Caldwell, Toomer, and Samie Parker. Maybe Greg Jennings but Ferguson would have to get injured first, which granted is a high probability.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I would have Cotchery on the list,

and drop McCareins.

I believe Cotchery will have

the #2 job by opening day.

 

[lostby1]

What about Nate Burleson? He landed in Seattle and should benefit from SA and DJ not to mention J. Stevens. I think he will replace Joe Jurevicius with better numbers. Just my two-cents.

He is very undervalued right now.

 

[GrandpaRox]

Considering I have 3 of those 5 in one of my leagues I would say I am in trouble.

The good thing about these kinds of players is that you only need 1 of them to hit and you get great value.

Boston, David TBB WR - After Clayton and Galloway all they have is Hilliard and Stovall, why not Boston one last time.

Caldwell, Reche NEP WR - Branch holding out, Jackson a rookie, Watson at TE then what???

Crayton, Patrick DAL WR - Glenn and TO then Crayton, he will get some opportunity and he can produce if he stay healthy.

Davis, Andre' BUF WR - Kind of a hope and a prayer here but after Evans he is as good as any other

Gabriel, Doug OAK WR - Porter

McCareins, Justin NYJ WR - No one else is a threat, someone has to catch some passes

Thorpe, Craphonso KCC WR - Low on depth chart but had some skills coming out of college and got hurt.

Toomer, Amani NYG WR - Forgotten man in NY, could put up some numbers if you hit a good week.

I need 1 of these guys to give me some points for bye weeks and in case of injury.

They may all end up back in the FA pool but they were cheap to pick up and roster until we see if they can do anything during pre-season.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What about Nate Burleson? He landed in Seattle and should benefit from SA and DJ not to mention J. Stevens. I think he will replace Joe Jurevicius with better numbers. Just my two-cents.He is very undervalued right now.

Possibly but he didn't exactly shine last season. I like Engram at the end of the draft instead of nate in and around the 6th-8th round...that's where he is going in a lot of redrafts.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Considering I have 3 of those 5 in one of my leagues I would say I am in trouble.The good thing about these kinds of players is that you only need 1 of them to hit and you get great value.Boston, David TBB WR - After Clayton and Galloway all they have is Hilliard and Stovall, why not Boston one last time.Caldwell, Reche NEP WR - Branch holding out, Jackson a rookie, Watson at TE then what???Crayton, Patrick DAL WR - Glenn and TO then Crayton, he will get some opportunity and he can produce if he stay healthy.Davis, Andre' BUF WR - Kind of a hope and a prayer here but after Evans he is as good as any otherGabriel, Doug OAK WR - PorterMcCareins, Justin NYJ WR - No one else is a threat, someone has to catch some passes Thorpe, Craphonso KCC WR - Low on depth chart but had some skills coming out of college and got hurt. Toomer, Amani NYG WR - Forgotten man in NY, could put up some numbers if you hit a good week.I need 1 of these guys to give me some points for bye weeks and in case of injury.They may all end up back in the FA pool but they were cheap to pick up and roster until we see if they can do anything during pre-season.

Good stuff.

 

[meanjoegreen]

...

McCareins: He's in the doghouse? This may very well be true but I have not read where mangini didn't like him. Starter on a team that will need to pass and has a favorable schedule...see Gabriel above.

...

WR Jerricho Cotchery has looked really good in the early days of Jets training camp and, if he keeps it up, we hear he could push Justin McCareins for the starting split-end spot opposite Laveranues Coles. Coach Eric Mangini is a fan of Cotchery’s, naming him the Jets’ most outstanding player in the offseason program. Cotchery gives some of the credit for his emergence in his third year to new Jets WR coach Noel Mazzone, who was the offensive coordinator at North Carolina State when Cotchery was breaking many of the school’s receiving records that had been set by Torry Holt. Word is Cotchery has shown more toughness and speed than McCareins, who started in Mangini’s doghouse for failing the team’s conditioning test. Cotchery is tough, runs good routes, is physical and possesses good hands — exactly the kind of receiver that Mangini likes.

Link

Here is another thing on McCareins from yesterday:

The New York Daily News reports Jets WR Justin McCareins, already in HC Eric Mangini's doghouse, had two drops in practice on Tuesday.

 

[the rover]

I don't see how anyone could claim that Gabriel is "under the radar." he wasn't even "under the radar" last year.

 

[Z-Dog]

As an NY homer I can tell you that McCareins is doing everything he needs ot do to become the veteran who gets cut as an example to everyone else. He got off on the wrong foot with the coach and has really been a disappointment ever since he came over for a 2nd-round pick from the Titans. Cotcherry is pushing himm pretty hard, so it wouldn't be a shock. If someone attractive shakes out in roster cutdowns, don't be surprised if the Jets dump McCareins.

I agree on Gabriel and Engram, but I disagree on Bradford. I just don't believe that Rogers and Williams are going to sit on the bench all year behind this guy - it's not like he's such a talent.

Guys I like at an ADP of lower than WR36 include:

Antonio Bryant (WR43), who is being ranked behind 3rd WRs when he is the best WR on his team

Troy Williamson, though I'm concerned about the lack of QB depth and BJ's age.

And a few others I won't mention until I finish off my Anarchy draft...

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

+----------+--------+-------------+----+| WK OPP | RSHYD | REC YD | TD |+----------+--------+-------------+----+| 1 dal | 0 | 4 99 | 1 || 2 sdg | 0 | 1 24 | 0 || 3 ind | -11 | 1 6 | 0 || 4 phi | 0 | 7 97 | 2 || 6 buf | 0 | 5 126 | 0 || 7 cle | 0 | 2 76 | 2 || 8 jax | 0 | 1 16 | 0 || 9 cin | 0 | 5 53 | 0 || 10 ten | 0 | 3 22 | 0 || 11 jax | 0 | 5 73 | 1 || 12 nyg | 0 | 1 16 | 0 || 15 bal | 0 | 3 28 | 0 || 16 was | 0 | 5 43 | 0 || 17 ten | 0 | 2 18 | 0 |+----------+--------+-------------+----+| TOTAL | -11 | 45 697 | 6 |+----------+--------+-------------+----+I don't know why I would expect 700 yards and 6 TD's from a guy who's only reached 600 yards twice and the last time was 4 years ago. His best years since then have been 24/460/4 and 34/436/5. In the stats from his best season posted above would you have wanted to rely on this guy for anything? You probably saw him gain your bench 15 points in week one and inserted him at WR #2 or #3 the next week to get his 1 for 24 in week 2. You probably didn't want to give up after a single bad week and got the 1 for 6 as well before benching or cutting him and watching him go for 7/97/2. Maybe even more likely was that you had a couple of solid WR's and never used Bradford until you felt safe using him for that week 8 bye after 3 solid weeks of good production only to get 1/16. Personally, in late round picks I'd be much happier looking for someone who just needs opportunity than I would on taking some guy who's started multiple years in the past only to be inconsistent and mediocre. I like the suggestion of watching Crayton but just really don't buy into McCareins or Bradford. Cotchery is a much higher upside pick as would a lot of other young guys. Rather have Caldwell or someone like that instead as well. He looked good a couple of years ago before getting injured and then didn't look 100% last year from what I saw.

 

[wannabee]

The WRs I like in this category are:Reche Caldwell, NE -> ADP 233 overallAmani Toomer, NYG -> ADP 166 overallSamie Parker, KC ->ADP 187 overallGreg Jennings, GB -> ADP 224 overall

MoP, do you agree/disagree with these? These are all WR2 on high yardage offenses and could be taken very late.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The WRs I like in this category are:Reche Caldwell, NE -> ADP 233 overallAmani Toomer, NYG -> ADP 166 overallSamie Parker, KC ->ADP 187 overallGreg Jennings, GB -> ADP 224 overall

MoP, do you agree/disagree with these? These are all WR2 on high yardage offenses and could be taken very late.

I like that list.I also like McCareins, I think the doghouse is temporary, and I don't buy Cotchery. Justin had over 100 targets last year IIRC.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Who you pick out of the guys falling into this category should depend largely on the makeup of your team.

If you have 3 excellent WRs and the players you draft here are only likely to be bye week fillers regardless, a guy like Bobby Engram is a perfect late-round flyer to take. He's a value pick who is more likely than not to give you a positive contribution of some sort when you need him.

In that category, I like the Crayton and Engram possibilities for the reasons stated above. While not under the radar, Isaac Bruce going in the 130 range is a value there as well.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

On the flip side, if your WRs are questionable, the possible homerun hitters are better options, as you may need an unexpected boost at the position, someone who can possibly provide unexpected big numbers.

Devery Henderson may steal Donte Stallworth's job in New Orleans, and with Joe Horn's health issues last year, that means some potential games in the WR1 role. That's opportunity.

I like the Cotchery and Caldwell suggestions made earlier as well. David Givens isn't really under the radar, but like I mentioned with Bruce earlier, he's one of those value guys I'd give a bigger upside - at least for the first half of the season. Then trade him while he's producing before VY takes over at QB.

 

[Tigerpiper]

The WRs I like in this category are:Reche Caldwell, NE -> ADP 233 overallAmani Toomer, NYG -> ADP 166 overallSamie Parker, KC ->ADP 187 overallGreg Jennings, GB -> ADP 224 overall

MoP, do you agree/disagree with these? These are all WR2 on high yardage offenses and could be taken very late.

Samie Parker intrigued me for awhile, but I am off that now. Toomer is much much better, and Jennings has more promise. Caldwell is a solid sleeper. The difference is each of those three is in a high powered attack, where WR2 has some potential value.Here's why on Parker: the Chiefs will be a substantially different offensive team this year. Herm is going to run the ball first, second and third, and the high flying days of Uncle #### are over.Trent Green's value takes a major hit, too. The other three have some serious value though.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The WRs I like in this category are:Reche Caldwell, NE -> ADP 233 overallAmani Toomer, NYG -> ADP 166 overallSamie Parker, KC ->ADP 187 overallGreg Jennings, GB -> ADP 224 overall

MoP, do you agree/disagree with these? These are all WR2 on high yardage offenses and could be taken very late.

Samie Parker intrigued me for awhile, but I am off that now. Toomer is much much better, and Jennings has more promise. Caldwell is a solid sleeper. The difference is each of those three is in a high powered attack, where WR2 has some potential value.Here's why on Parker: the Chiefs will be a substantially different offensive team this year. Herm is going to run the ball first, second and third, and the high flying days of Uncle #### are over.Trent Green's value takes a major hit, too. The other three have some serious value though.

I don't care who is running the offense or what the offensive philosophy is, I'd have problems with Parker unless you're expecting an injury to Kennison. Parker is always going to be the 4th option at best on that team. 5th if you count LJ as options 1 AND 2.

 

[Big Blue Wrecking Crew]

 

[wannabee]

The WRs I like in this category are:Reche Caldwell, NE -> ADP 233 overallAmani Toomer, NYG -> ADP 166 overallSamie Parker, KC ->ADP 187 overallGreg Jennings, GB -> ADP 224 overall

MoP, do you agree/disagree with these? These are all WR2 on high yardage offenses and could be taken very late.

Samie Parker intrigued me for awhile, but I am off that now. Toomer is much much better, and Jennings has more promise. Caldwell is a solid sleeper. The difference is each of those three is in a high powered attack, where WR2 has some potential value.Here's why on Parker: the Chiefs will be a substantially different offensive team this year. Herm is going to run the ball first, second and third, and the high flying days of Uncle #### are over.Trent Green's value takes a major hit, too. The other three have some serious value though.

I don't care who is running the offense or what the offensive philosophy is, I'd have problems with Parker unless you're expecting an injury to Kennison. Parker is always going to be the 4th option at best on that team. 5th if you count LJ as options 1 AND 2.

I have a more detailed reasoning in wannabee thread in ACF, but I like the looks of this stretch of game Parker put together ... and it was during LJ's starts:11/27 NE W 26-16 Yes 5 76 15.2 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 December 11/27 NE 5/7612/04 DEN 4/39 12/11 @DAL 5/79 12/17 @NYG 6/8712/24 SD 4/58/1 That is decent enough to cover a bye week or injury and be a WR5/6 in 12 teamer

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I don't see how anyone could claim that Gabriel is "under the radar." he wasn't even "under the radar" last year.

Well rover he went in the 19th round this past weekend in a couple of my drafts...he certainly is not going in the top 12 rounds right now and I think that would qualify as under the radar a little bit.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The WRs I like in this category are:

Reche Caldwell, NE -> ADP 233 overall

Amani Toomer, NYG -> ADP 166 overall

Samie Parker, KC ->ADP 187 overall

Greg Jennings, GB -> ADP 224 overall

MoP, do you agree/disagree with these? These are all WR2 on high yardage offenses and could be taken very late.

Samie Parker intrigued me for awhile, but I am off that now. Toomer is much much better, and Jennings has more promise. Caldwell is a solid sleeper. The difference is each of those three is in a high powered attack, where WR2 has some potential value.Here's why on Parker: the Chiefs will be a substantially different offensive team this year. Herm is going to run the ball first, second and third, and the high flying days of Uncle #### are over.

Trent Green's value takes a major hit, too.

The other three have some serious value though.

I don't care who is running the offense or what the offensive philosophy is, I'd have problems with Parker unless you're expecting an injury to Kennison. Parker is always going to be the 4th option at best on that team. 5th if you count LJ as options 1 AND 2.

I have a more detailed reasoning in wannabee thread in ACF, but I like the looks of this stretch of game Parker put together ... and it was during LJ's starts:11/27 NE W 26-16 Yes 5 76 15.2 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

December

11/27 NE 5/76

12/04 DEN 4/39

12/11 @DAL 5/79

12/17 @NYG 6/87

12/24 SD 4/58/1

That is decent enough to cover a bye week or injury and be a WR5/6 in 12 teamer

Fair enough. I'm not convinced he could maintain that over the course of a season. It's certainly a fair argument to make, though.It always seems like another WR shouldemerge in that offense, but they're so RB and TE dependent it almost becomes a fight against the offensive gameplan as much as anything.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The WRs I like in this category are:Reche Caldwell, NE -> ADP 233 overallAmani Toomer, NYG -> ADP 166 overallSamie Parker, KC ->ADP 187 overallGreg Jennings, GB -> ADP 224 overall

MoP, do you agree/disagree with these? These are all WR2 on high yardage offenses and could be taken very late.

I have Caldwell on most of my rosters...till I see branch have a completely consistent injury free year and post 80-90 catches and 1,000+ yds(I know he was just short), and maybe 10 TD...to me there is room for someone else to come in and assert themselves.Caldwell was on my short list of sleepers last year...I'm hoping he fids himself in NE. I like Jackson there too but I really feel rookie WR have little chance to have a big impact. Most hardly make it to 500-750 yds...I think Caldwell will have an opp to do well there.Amani Toomer is interesting but Plaxico and Shockey and barber always seem like better options to Coughlin it seems. He is like option 4 or 5 on that offense.Samie Parker...could come on. Gonzo and kennison are not getting any younger, but neither is Trent Green who I see sliding a bit this year. Herm Edwards scares the heck out of me...I have LJ on a 3 player keeper league and I am gonna shop him and see if I can land a better draft spot...I jsut don't trust Edwards to keep things chugging along there, sorry.Greg Jennings...ask Brett Favre cause quite frankly I have never seen this guy play, but I will be following him in preseason. Rookie WR.

 

[mario soto]

I don't think Bradford is a sleeper, but I like your Crayton pick. He'll have a lot of value when TO gets dinged. I think you'd have more credibility if you compared these WR's to pizza sizes though. Combining your FF and math skillz is $$$.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

On the flip side, if your WRs are questionable, the possible homerun hitters are better options, as you may need an unexpected boost at the position, someone who can possibly provide unexpected big numbers.Devery Henderson may steal Donte Stallworth's job in New Orleans, and with Joe Horn's health issues last year, that means some potential games in the WR1 role. That's opportunity.I like the Cotchery and Caldwell suggestions made earlier as well. David Givens isn't really under the radar, but like I mentioned with Bruce earlier, he's one of those value guys I'd give a bigger upside - at least for the first half of the season. Then trade him while he's producing before VY takes over at QB.

Solid Bob.Let me ask though...if you have topflight WRs in the 1st 3-4 spots then doesn't it give you the flexibility to go after guys with bigger upside. I have Holt/Mason as my 1-2 in a league and I am seriously thinking about sitting Mason in week1 against the Bucs and maybe playing Bobby Engram as DJax may not be back 100% and Burleson will be learning the offense...Engram may be a clutch security blanket for Hass back there.

 

[wannabee]

The WRs I like in this category are:

Reche Caldwell, NE -> ADP 233 overall

Amani Toomer, NYG -> ADP 166 overall

Samie Parker, KC ->ADP 187 overall

Greg Jennings, GB -> ADP 224 overall

MoP, do you agree/disagree with these? These are all WR2 on high yardage offenses and could be taken very late.

I have Caldwell on most of my rosters...till I see branch have a completely consistent injury free year and post 80-90 catches and 1,000+ yds(I know he was just short), and maybe 10 TD...to me there is room for someone else to come in and assert themselves.Caldwell was on my short list of sleepers last year...I'm hoping he fids himself in NE. I like Jackson there too but I really feel rookie WR have little chance to have a big impact. Most hardly make it to 500-750 yds...I think Caldwell will have an opp to do well there.

Amani Toomer is interesting but Plaxico and Shockey and barber always seem like better options to Coughlin it seems. He is like option 4 or 5 on that offense.

Samie Parker...could come on. Gonzo and kennison are not getting any younger, but neither is Trent Green who I see sliding a bit this year. Herm Edwards scares the heck out of me...I have LJ on a 3 player keeper league and I am gonna shop him and see if I can land a better draft spot...I jsut don't trust Edwards to keep things chugging along there, sorry.

Greg Jennings...ask Brett Favre cause quite frankly I have never seen this guy play, but I will be following him in preseason. Rookie WR.

thanks. Toomer and Caldwell are my two favorite sleeper WRs. Caldwell for the reasons you stated and Toomer for this (it was a buy low post I wrote for wannabee thread in ACF:One WR that seems to slip in dynasty drafts is Amani Toomer. He went in the late 18th round of a recent initial dynasty draft full of strong owners from this board. Right now, Toomer's redraft ADP is WR55 and the 174th player overall taken - and has slipped evelen spots in the ADP. Think about that. A WR who is only 31 years old (turning 32 in Sept) who put up good numbers ... around WR30 last year depending on scoring system, going that late.

Toomer had 7 games with five or more receptions. He had seven TDs. Here is the game logs: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1262/gamelogs/2005

I will add that I think, for the value, Toomer is a much better player than Plaxico Burress. Burress costs a 4th round pick and Toomer a 18th rounder. Plax did outscore Toomer by 2.75 ppg last year in PPR leagues. But, Plax is considered a borderline WR1/WR2, while Toomer is a GREAT WR4.

Toomer even had over 100 targets again in 2005. I expect him to have another three or four years left in his career. Eli is improving and should help stabilize those numbers

and here is the reasoning on the value side:

Let's look at ADP:

Plax -> WR14 and 40th overall

Toomer -> WR52 and 166 overall

Last year's production:

Plax -> 76/1214/7

Toomer -> 60/684/7

Now, that looks close, and TDs are unpredictable, are these stats normal for these WRs?

Burress

+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 2000 pit | 11 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 23 273 11.9 0 |

| 2001 pit | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 66 1008 15.3 6 |

| 2002 pit | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 78 1325 17.0 7 |

| 2003 pit | 16 | 1 -7 -7.0 0 | 60 860 14.3 4 |

| 2004 pit | 11 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 35 698 19.9 5 |

| 2005 nyg | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 76 1214 16.0 7 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 86 | 1 -7 -7.0 0 | 338 5378 15.9 29

Toomer

+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 1996 nyg | 7 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 1 12 12.0 0 |

| 1997 nyg | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 16 263 16.4 1 |

| 1998 nyg | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 27 360 13.3 5 |

| 1999 nyg | 16 | 1 4 4.0 0 | 79 1183 15.0 6 |

| 2000 nyg | 16 | 5 91 18.2 1 | 78 1094 14.0 7 |

| 2001 nyg | 16 | 3 8 2.7 0 | 72 1054 14.6 5 |

| 2002 nyg | 16 | 1 2 2.0 0 | 82 1343 16.4 8 |

| 2003 nyg | 16 | 1 5 5.0 0 | 63 1057 16.8 5 |

| 2004 nyg | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 51 747 14.6 0 |

| 2005 nyg | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 60 684 11.4 7 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 150 | 11 110 10.0 1 | 529 7797 14.7 44

Another thing that seems very odd is the targets each received last year. Plax had 166 targets and Toomer had 109. It seems to me that Toomer did much better with his targets.

Yes, Toomer had a high number of TDs, but he also had a reduction in yards. In fact, the fewest receiving yards since 1998. While Plax seems to have upside but also last year was a very good year for him.

I think it is very difficult to guess which WR will have the best year. Given this, I will take Toomer. I expect Eli's numbers to progress off of last year's, thus giving both WRs a potential bump from last year.

And, to top it off, Toomer finished the season strong. It took he and Eli a while to get going, but the last two monts of the season were money for Toomer. Here are the stats:

NOVEMBER GAMES # 4 21 catches, 217 yds, 3 TDs

DECEMBER GAMES # 5 18 catches, 216 yds, 3 TDs

He averaged 4.3 catches, 48 yds, and .67 TDs per game

So, my advice is to skip on taking Plax in the 4th round and take Toomer much later.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I don't think Bradford is a sleeper, but I like your Crayton pick. He'll have a lot of value when TO gets dinged. I think you'd have more credibility if you compared these WR's to pizza sizes though. Combining your FF and math skillz is $$$.

Can't spell Mario Soto without Otis. Haven't posted in the Shark Pool since January and you pick this thread, eh?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

On the flip side, if your WRs are questionable, the possible homerun hitters are better options, as you may need an unexpected boost at the position, someone who can possibly provide unexpected big numbers.Devery Henderson may steal Donte Stallworth's job in New Orleans, and with Joe Horn's health issues last year, that means some potential games in the WR1 role. That's opportunity.I like the Cotchery and Caldwell suggestions made earlier as well. David Givens isn't really under the radar, but like I mentioned with Bruce earlier, he's one of those value guys I'd give a bigger upside - at least for the first half of the season. Then trade him while he's producing before VY takes over at QB.

Solid Bob.Let me ask though...if you have topflight WRs in the 1st 3-4 spots then doesn't it give you the flexibility to go after guys with bigger upside. I have Holt/Mason as my 1-2 in a league and I am seriously thinking about sitting Mason in week1 against the Bucs and maybe playing Bobby Engram as DJax may not be back 100% and Burleson will be learning the offense...Engram may be a clutch security blanket for Hass back there.

Of course. Obviously you mix and match it. If you can claim a quality WR in the 4 spot, I'd draft nothing but guys with bigger upside after that, as guys in the 5 or 6 hole are likely to NEVER see your starting lineup. Go after possible trade bait without much worry.But if I go 3 deep at WR and plan to only draft 5 of them, I would be more likely to make certain 1 of those other 2 is of the Engram variety. He probably doesn't have to win any weeks for me. I just don't want him to post a goose egg on my bye weeks. I can afford to shoot for the stars with the other guy. On the other hand, if my early WRs are questionable, a guy who is a slam dunk for 5 points per week but has a lower ceiling doesn't do a lot for me. I want to generate possible point production from the position. I'd probably lean more heavily towards guys who can make up for their possible lack of performance, as I'm not likely to win anyway if I can't find one of the Galloways in the draft.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The WRs I like in this category are:

Reche Caldwell, NE -> ADP 233 overall

Amani Toomer, NYG -> ADP 166 overall

Samie Parker, KC ->ADP 187 overall

Greg Jennings, GB -> ADP 224 overall

MoP, do you agree/disagree with these? These are all WR2 on high yardage offenses and could be taken very late.

I have Caldwell on most of my rosters...till I see branch have a completely consistent injury free year and post 80-90 catches and 1,000+ yds(I know he was just short), and maybe 10 TD...to me there is room for someone else to come in and assert themselves.Caldwell was on my short list of sleepers last year...I'm hoping he fids himself in NE. I like Jackson there too but I really feel rookie WR have little chance to have a big impact. Most hardly make it to 500-750 yds...I think Caldwell will have an opp to do well there.

Amani Toomer is interesting but Plaxico and Shockey and barber always seem like better options to Coughlin it seems. He is like option 4 or 5 on that offense.

Samie Parker...could come on. Gonzo and kennison are not getting any younger, but neither is Trent Green who I see sliding a bit this year. Herm Edwards scares the heck out of me...I have LJ on a 3 player keeper league and I am gonna shop him and see if I can land a better draft spot...I jsut don't trust Edwards to keep things chugging along there, sorry.

Greg Jennings...ask Brett Favre cause quite frankly I have never seen this guy play, but I will be following him in preseason. Rookie WR.

thanks. Toomer and Caldwell are my two favorite sleeper WRs. Caldwell for the reasons you stated and Toomer for this (it was a buy low post I wrote for wannabee thread in ACF:One WR that seems to slip in dynasty drafts is Amani Toomer. He went in the late 18th round of a recent initial dynasty draft full of strong owners from this board. Right now, Toomer's redraft ADP is WR55 and the 174th player overall taken - and has slipped evelen spots in the ADP. Think about that. A WR who is only 31 years old (turning 32 in Sept) who put up good numbers ... around WR30 last year depending on scoring system, going that late.

Toomer had 7 games with five or more receptions. He had seven TDs. Here is the game logs: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1262/gamelogs/2005

I will add that I think, for the value, Toomer is a much better player than Plaxico Burress. Burress costs a 4th round pick and Toomer a 18th rounder. Plax did outscore Toomer by 2.75 ppg last year in PPR leagues. But, Plax is considered a borderline WR1/WR2, while Toomer is a GREAT WR4.

Toomer even had over 100 targets again in 2005. I expect him to have another three or four years left in his career. Eli is improving and should help stabilize those numbers

and here is the reasoning on the value side:

Let's look at ADP:

Plax -> WR14 and 40th overall

Toomer -> WR52 and 166 overall

Last year's production:

Plax -> 76/1214/7

Toomer -> 60/684/7

Now, that looks close, and TDs are unpredictable, are these stats normal for these WRs?

Burress

+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 2000 pit | 11 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 23 273 11.9 0 |

| 2001 pit | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 66 1008 15.3 6 |

| 2002 pit | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 78 1325 17.0 7 |

| 2003 pit | 16 | 1 -7 -7.0 0 | 60 860 14.3 4 |

| 2004 pit | 11 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 35 698 19.9 5 |

| 2005 nyg | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 76 1214 16.0 7 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 86 | 1 -7 -7.0 0 | 338 5378 15.9 29

Toomer

+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 1996 nyg | 7 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 1 12 12.0 0 |

| 1997 nyg | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 16 263 16.4 1 |

| 1998 nyg | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 27 360 13.3 5 |

| 1999 nyg | 16 | 1 4 4.0 0 | 79 1183 15.0 6 |

| 2000 nyg | 16 | 5 91 18.2 1 | 78 1094 14.0 7 |

| 2001 nyg | 16 | 3 8 2.7 0 | 72 1054 14.6 5 |

| 2002 nyg | 16 | 1 2 2.0 0 | 82 1343 16.4 8 |

| 2003 nyg | 16 | 1 5 5.0 0 | 63 1057 16.8 5 |

| 2004 nyg | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 51 747 14.6 0 |

| 2005 nyg | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 60 684 11.4 7 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 150 | 11 110 10.0 1 | 529 7797 14.7 44

Another thing that seems very odd is the targets each received last year. Plax had 166 targets and Toomer had 109. It seems to me that Toomer did much better with his targets.

Yes, Toomer had a high number of TDs, but he also had a reduction in yards. In fact, the fewest receiving yards since 1998. While Plax seems to have upside but also last year was a very good year for him.

I think it is very difficult to guess which WR will have the best year. Given this, I will take Toomer. I expect Eli's numbers to progress off of last year's, thus giving both WRs a potential bump from last year.

And, to top it off, Toomer finished the season strong. It took he and Eli a while to get going, but the last two monts of the season were money for Toomer. Here are the stats:

NOVEMBER GAMES # 4 21 catches, 217 yds, 3 TDs

DECEMBER GAMES # 5 18 catches, 216 yds, 3 TDs

He averaged 4.3 catches, 48 yds, and .67 TDs per game

So, my advice is to skip on taking Plax in the 4th round and take Toomer much later.

OK but let's look at last season.wk 1: Nothing

wk 2: 2/31...at this point no one is going to start him

wk3: 4/84...might get you interested to insert him the following week

wk4: 3/20/1

wk5: Bye...

wk6: 2/11...oops, no one is gonna want to start him the next week

wk7: 8/62/1...most FF owners did not get these points but now lets roll him out for next week

wk8: 2/43...not helping his owner who would have soured on him at this point

wk9: 3/38...blah

wk10: 6/61/1

wk11: 6/56/1

wk12: 6/62/1...OK, owners are psyched and want to start him

wk13: 1/8...oops and with the FF playoffs starting he is riding the pine

wk14: 6/54

wk15: 5/69/1

wk16: 6/85/1

wk17: Nothing

He started the year with nothing, he ends with nothing. if Plaxico went down with an injury he would have a lot of value, otherwise I don't see him offering too much for most owners.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

On the flip side, if your WRs are questionable, the possible homerun hitters are better options, as you may need an unexpected boost at the position, someone who can possibly provide unexpected big numbers.Devery Henderson may steal Donte Stallworth's job in New Orleans, and with Joe Horn's health issues last year, that means some potential games in the WR1 role. That's opportunity.I like the Cotchery and Caldwell suggestions made earlier as well. David Givens isn't really under the radar, but like I mentioned with Bruce earlier, he's one of those value guys I'd give a bigger upside - at least for the first half of the season. Then trade him while he's producing before VY takes over at QB.

Solid Bob.Let me ask though...if you have topflight WRs in the 1st 3-4 spots then doesn't it give you the flexibility to go after guys with bigger upside. I have Holt/Mason as my 1-2 in a league and I am seriously thinking about sitting Mason in week1 against the Bucs and maybe playing Bobby Engram as DJax may not be back 100% and Burleson will be learning the offense...Engram may be a clutch security blanket for Hass back there.

Of course. Obviously you mix and match it. If you can claim a quality WR in the 4 spot, I'd draft nothing but guys with bigger upside after that, as guys in the 5 or 6 hole are likely to NEVER see your starting lineup. Go after possible trade bait without much worry.But if I go 3 deep at WR and plan to only draft 5 of them, I would be more likely to make certain 1 of those other 2 is of the Engram variety. He probably doesn't have to win any weeks for me. I just don't want him to post a goose egg on my bye weeks. I can afford to shoot for the stars with the other guy. On the other hand, if my early WRs are questionable, a guy who is a slam dunk for 5 points per week but has a lower ceiling doesn't do a lot for me. I want to generate possible point production from the position. I'd probably lean more heavily towards guys who can make up for their possible lack of performance, as I'm not likely to win anyway if I can't find one of the Galloways in the draft.

It's interesting and maybe deserves its own thread but on a 20 man roster I keep 2 Def/ST, 1TE, 1PK...usually 2 QBs, and then I mix and match about 14 RB/WR...this year I tried to back all my starting RB so I probably have 3 different teams and a back up on thsoe teams so I went with 8 WR. I picked about 4 of them by round 10-12 and then I took 4 more in most leagues in the 15th or later.