5 reasons socialism is inferior to capitalism (1 Viewer)

[dickey moe]

What we have is an all too strong alignment between government and business (especially finance) - call it what you will... statism, fascism, socialism-light. Ain't much capitalism to be had these days (except for the small business owner).

And BOTH of the two major parties are complicit.

 

[Thunderlips]

What we have is an all too strong alignment between government and business (especially finance) - call it what you will... statism, fascism, socialism-light. Ain't much capitalism to be had these days (except for the small business owner).

Been that way since after the Second World War. Hell...didn't the POTUS sit down with business leaders and union officials to negotiate contracts back then?

 

[RandyDB]

Kind of curious, how many people think these should be rights, actual constitutionally guaranteed rights, things the government must do for each and every citizen.

Not that President Obama has advocated these things as rights, or all of them, he hasn't, but he has said that there are things that government must do, as opposed to our system of government which says there are things that federal government is limited and prohibited from doing. Now when these things becomes constitutionally mandated, which Obama has not called for btw, to me that is one definition of socialism.

Rights:

• Right to rest and leisure, in the form of a maximum 7 hour work day, 35 hour work week
• 40 or 50 hours may be appropriate
• Right to total care in old age and disability, not just health care but all housing and treatment, including nurses
• Right to health care
• Right to education
• Equality of women in all things, income, everything
• In reality women are more than equal to men
• Equality of all races, genders, orientations and nationalities, in all things, including income and protection against any advocacy of racial or national exclusiveness or hatred and contempt
• Right to access to the media, including the internet, internet and the ability to publish in any form, meaning publicly funded tv, radio, news networks, newspapers and websites and subsidized internet
• Right to a job; the government must offer or subsidize jobs to all persons
• All jobs (whether fry cook or chef at a 5 star restaurant) should provide minimum sustanence
• Right to all property to fulfill the above, all property and income is ultimately subsidized by public works
• Right to asylum to all persons who cannot obtain any of the above in their home nation

Anybody for all these?

I have considered myself a socialist for a long time. If my definition of a Socialist is the same ad yours, I can not say.

Here is what I believe. Every head of household willing to work a fulltime job should be guaranteed certain rights or entitlements.

These rights would include:

1) minimum residence

- a bedroom for each adult in the house hold and a bedroom for all males and females under adult age.

- heat,electricity,phone,internet access,cable are all necessities to minimum residence

2) Transportation

- one vehicle per household

- Free transit on all public transportation availale

3) Health Care

 

[Soonerman]

Kind of curious, how many people think these should be rights, actual constitutionally guaranteed rights, things the government must do for each and every citizen.

Not that President Obama has advocated these things as rights, or all of them, he hasn't, but he has said that there are things that government must do, as opposed to our system of government which says there are things that federal government is limited and prohibited from doing. Now when these things becomes constitutionally mandated, which Obama has not called for btw, to me that is one definition of socialism.

Rights:

• Right to rest and leisure, in the form of a maximum 7 hour work day, 35 hour work week
• 40 or 50 hours may be appropriate
• Right to total care in old age and disability, not just health care but all housing and treatment, including nurses
• Right to health care
• Right to education
• Equality of women in all things, income, everything
• In reality women are more than equal to men
• Equality of all races, genders, orientations and nationalities, in all things, including income and protection against any advocacy of racial or national exclusiveness or hatred and contempt
• Right to access to the media, including the internet, internet and the ability to publish in any form, meaning publicly funded tv, radio, news networks, newspapers and websites and subsidized internet
• Right to a job; the government must offer or subsidize jobs to all persons
• All jobs (whether fry cook or chef at a 5 star restaurant) should provide minimum sustanence
• Right to all property to fulfill the above, all property and income is ultimately subsidized by public works
• Right to asylum to all persons who cannot obtain any of the above in their home nation

Anybody for all these?

I have considered myself a socialist for a long time. If my definition of a Socialist is the same ad yours, I can not say.

Here is what I believe. Every head of household willing to work a fulltime job should be guaranteed certain rights or entitlements.

These rights would include:

1) minimum residence

- a bedroom for each adult in the house hold and a bedroom for all males and females under adult age.

- heat,electricity,phone,internet access,cable are all necessities to minimum residence

2) Transportation

- one vehicle per household

- Free transit on all public transportation availale

3) Health Care

Who's going to pay for all this free stuff?

 

[RandyDB]

Kind of curious, how many people think these should be rights, actual constitutionally guaranteed rights, things the government must do for each and every citizen.

Not that President Obama has advocated these things as rights, or all of them, he hasn't, but he has said that there are things that government must do, as opposed to our system of government which says there are things that federal government is limited and prohibited from doing. Now when these things becomes constitutionally mandated, which Obama has not called for btw, to me that is one definition of socialism.

Rights:

• Right to rest and leisure, in the form of a maximum 7 hour work day, 35 hour work week
• 40 or 50 hours may be appropriate
• Right to total care in old age and disability, not just health care but all housing and treatment, including nurses
• Right to health care
• Right to education
• Equality of women in all things, income, everything
• In reality women are more than equal to men
• Equality of all races, genders, orientations and nationalities, in all things, including income and protection against any advocacy of racial or national exclusiveness or hatred and contempt
• Right to access to the media, including the internet, internet and the ability to publish in any form, meaning publicly funded tv, radio, news networks, newspapers and websites and subsidized internet
• Right to a job; the government must offer or subsidize jobs to all persons
• All jobs (whether fry cook or chef at a 5 star restaurant) should provide minimum sustanence
• Right to all property to fulfill the above, all property and income is ultimately subsidized by public works
• Right to asylum to all persons who cannot obtain any of the above in their home nation

Anybody for all these?

I have considered myself a socialist for a long time. If my definition of a Socialist is the same ad yours, I can not say.

Here is what I believe. Every head of household willing to work a fulltime job should be guaranteed certain rights or entitlements.

These rights would include:

1) minimum residence

- a bedroom for each adult in the house hold and a bedroom for all males and females under adult age.

- heat,electricity,phone,internet access,cable are all necessities to minimum residence

2) Transportation

- one vehicle per household

- Free transit on all public transportation availale

3) Health Care

Who's going to pay for all this free stuff?

everyone else - isn't that the true definition of socialism

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Kind of curious, how many people think these should be rights, actual constitutionally guaranteed rights, things the government must do for each and every citizen.

Not that President Obama has advocated these things as rights, or all of them, he hasn't, but he has said that there are things that government must do, as opposed to our system of government which says there are things that federal government is limited and prohibited from doing. Now when these things becomes constitutionally mandated, which Obama has not called for btw, to me that is one definition of socialism.

Rights:

• Right to rest and leisure, in the form of a maximum 7 hour work day, 35 hour work week
• 40 or 50 hours may be appropriate
• Right to total care in old age and disability, not just health care but all housing and treatment, including nurses
• Right to health care
• Right to education
• Equality of women in all things, income, everything
• In reality women are more than equal to men
• Equality of all races, genders, orientations and nationalities, in all things, including income and protection against any advocacy of racial or national exclusiveness or hatred and contempt
• Right to access to the media, including the internet, internet and the ability to publish in any form, meaning publicly funded tv, radio, news networks, newspapers and websites and subsidized internet
• Right to a job; the government must offer or subsidize jobs to all persons
• All jobs (whether fry cook or chef at a 5 star restaurant) should provide minimum sustanence
• Right to all property to fulfill the above, all property and income is ultimately subsidized by public works
• Right to asylum to all persons who cannot obtain any of the above in their home nation

Anybody for all these?

I have considered myself a socialist for a long time. If my definition of a Socialist is the same ad yours, I can not say.

Here is what I believe. Every head of household willing to work a fulltime job should be guaranteed certain rights or entitlements.

These rights would include:

1) minimum residence

- a bedroom for each adult in the house hold and a bedroom for all males and females under adult age.

- heat,electricity,phone,internet access,cable are all necessities to minimum residence

2) Transportation

- one vehicle per household

- Free transit on all public transportation availale

3) Health Care

Thanks for the input, and I've edited my list further up.

I'm not going to state the source of my listing as I don't want to shade the discussion.

I do think that you need to consider the right to property as part of this, which I did originally include, because I think the underlying assumption for all of this is that private wealth is subsidized by the state and the public generally.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Kind of curious, how many people think these should be rights, actual constitutionally guaranteed rights, things the government must do for each and every citizen.

Not that President Obama has advocated these things as rights, or all of them, he hasn't, but he has said that there are things that government must do, as opposed to our system of government which says there are things that federal government is limited and prohibited from doing. Now when these things becomes constitutionally mandated, which Obama has not called for btw, to me that is one definition of socialism.

Rights:

• Right to rest and leisure, in the form of a maximum 7 hour work day, 35 hour work week
• 40 or 50 hours may be appropriate
• Right to total care in old age and disability, not just health care but all housing and treatment, including nurses
• Right to health care
• Right to education
• Equality of women in all things, income, everything
• In reality women are more than equal to men
• Equality of all races, genders, orientations and nationalities, in all things, including income and protection against any advocacy of racial or national exclusiveness or hatred and contempt
• Right to access to the media, including the internet, internet and the ability to publish in any form, meaning publicly funded tv, radio, news networks, newspapers and websites and subsidized internet
• Right to a job; the government must offer or subsidize jobs to all persons
• All jobs (whether fry cook or chef at a 5 star restaurant) should provide minimum sustanence
• Right to all property to fulfill the above, all property and income is ultimately subsidized by public works
• Right to asylum to all persons who cannot obtain any of the above in their home nation

Anybody for all these?

I have considered myself a socialist for a long time. If my definition of a Socialist is the same ad yours, I can not say.

Here is what I believe. Every head of household willing to work a fulltime job should be guaranteed certain rights or entitlements.

These rights would include:

1) minimum residence

- a bedroom for each adult in the house hold and a bedroom for all males and females under adult age.

- heat,electricity,phone,internet access,cable are all necessities to minimum residence

2) Transportation

- one vehicle per household

- Free transit on all public transportation availale

3) Health Care

Who's going to pay for all this free stuff?

everyone else - isn't that the true definition of socialism

In regards to the last two comments, I direct your attention to the point about the nature of property. The only way this works is if you assume that all property is public in nature and that all private property, including personal wealth, exists only because of public works and infrastructure and because all private enterprise is subsidized in essence.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Socialsim means state control of industry. How many socialists are there actually in the United States? Obama and other Dems get accused all the time of being socialists, but this is a pretty idiotic charge IMO. Big difference between socialism and liberalism.

Older comment, but I thought I would point out I think this overstates the case.

Socialism can and does mean control of production and can mean control of the means of production, but it can be a sliding scale, from owning one company, say GM, to controlling a whole industry. To me, regulation is not socialism, because there is no ownership.

Also, "industry" doesn't really state the case. It's about property. Ownership means being the legal title holder, but it also means having control over use, abuse (ie the right to transfer, alter, change property and the like) and other bundles of rights. Again, regulation of property, say running a bar out of your house could be prohibited by zoning, does not mean socialism.

But whether private property and the rights that come with it control the state, or does the state control private property and the rights with it, is the main question at the root of all this.