6pts for QB TDs. Does it really make QBs "more valuable"? (1 Viewer)

[healthpellets]

I hear sometimes that QBs scoring 6pts for TDs makes them more valuable. Can someone prove or disprove that statement?

The way I look at is QBs, regardless of whether they score 2pts per TD, or 6pt per TD, are still compared against QBs in terms of rankings and tiers. So the drop off between QBs in any scoring system is going to be the same, generally.

Maybe it becomes an issue when deciding where to take a QB? Does getting 6pts for QB TDs mean that QBs should be drafted earlier than they normally would be?

Discuss.

 

[Oh Noes]

I hear sometimes that QBs scoring 6pts for TDs makes them more valuable. Can someone prove or disprove that statement?

The way I look at is QBs, regardless of whether they score 2pts per TD, or 6pt per TD, are still compared against QBs in terms of rankings and tiers. So the drop off between QBs in any scoring system is going to be the same, generally.

Maybe it becomes an issue when deciding where to take a QB? Does getting 6pts for QB TDs mean that QBs should be drafted earlier than they normally would be?

Discuss.

This is where you FAIL.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Yes

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Makes them more valuable relative to other positions, so yes, they should be drafted earlier than they would be in 4 pt/TD formats. That's not going to show in VBD because it's calculating a players worth relative to others at his position, but I always look to the QB slot more quickly in a 6 pt/pass TD league than in a 4 pt/TD league.

 

[spider321]

6 pts for passing td's makes qb's too valuable relative to the other positions.

Obviously, they still have the same value when only compared to other qb's.

 

[Chase Stuart]

When people say it makes QBs more valuable, the word "good" is implied there. Good QBs -- or more importantly, QBs who throw a bunch of touchdowns -- become more valuable this way.

As a proof, think of two different leagues. One gives 1000 fantasy points per TD pass. One gives 0 fantasy points per TD pass. Are good QBs more valuable in the former league than in the latter?

 

[Jeremy]

6 pts for passing td's makes qb's too valuable relative to the other positions.

Obviously, they still have the same value when only compared to other qb's.

I would think a 6pt TD pass would be necessary in PPR leagues. People say PPR is needed to keep RBs from being too valuable, so I would think you'd need to boost the QBs relative value to prevent them from being unimportant.And an extra 2 pts per TD pass will make a high end QB more desirable as they'll have more TD passes than a middle of the pack QB.

 

[fightingillini]

Obviously, they still have the same value when only compared to other qb's.

This is the key. Obviously, the top QBs are more valuable, but after the top QBs are gone, the relative value of the next 10-15 QBs isn't much, since after say the top 5 or 6 QBs, the next 10-15 will probably be expected to toss 18-23 TDs, so increasing from 4 pts/TD pass to 6pts/TD pass would only make at most a 8-10 pt difference in this tier.So if I pass on the top 5 or 6 QBs, I would probably wait to grab a QB, no difference if the scoring was 4 pts per TD pass. However, many will feel the value will be artificially increased, so while waiting is probably a good strategy, you will probably have to draft your QB a round or two earlier than if the QBs were 4 pts per TD pass.....like what Evilgrin72 mentioned.

 

[healthpellets]

I hear sometimes that QBs scoring 6pts for TDs makes them more valuable. Can someone prove or disprove that statement?

The way I look at is QBs, regardless of whether they score 2pts per TD, or 6pt per TD, are still compared against QBs in terms of rankings and tiers. So the drop off between QBs in any scoring system is going to be the same, generally.

Maybe it becomes an issue when deciding where to take a QB? Does getting 6pts for QB TDs mean that QBs should be drafted earlier than they normally would be?

Discuss.

This is where you FAIL.

thank you for your input. it truly enhanced the thread.

 

[CalBear]

Since value is based on points scored above a baseline, increasing the scoring for TDs will increase the differential between the best QBs and the baseline QBs, yes, 6 point passing TDs will make QBs more valuable than they would be with 4 point passing TDs.

However, the effect is slight, and they're still a lot less valuable than RBs or WRs.

 

[ratbast]

Your point has been in my head forever.

I find the unequal TD logic to be flawed but yet still makes sense. (what?)

Basically the more points per TD for QB the harder it is to compete if you dont have a top QB.

In a 6pt TD for QB league his 35 TD passer vs your 25 TD passer is 10 TDs you have to make up at your other positions to compete.

Get a 30 TD thrower and you are in instantly in contention. And watch out dynasty leagues.

In a 3 pt per TD its 5 tds between the rest of your team. Still an advantage for the better QB.

 

[ookook]

Two quick (and obvious) thoughts.

a) 6 pt. TD pass scoring changes the ranking WITHIN QBs as well. This is because there are other ways to score points (e.g., rashing yards and rushing TDs).

b) Effects depend on what you do with INT scoring too. Typically, -2 pts with 6pt TDs but -1 for 4 pt. This can change relative value within position as well based on their TD to INT ratio (where they lose 1/3 vs. 1/4 of a TD for an INT).

The main obstacle to QB value is supply and demand. Generally, there are lots out there on the wire. This is why folks do Start 2 QB leagues.

Lots don't like this, but may find adding a "superflex" position more palatable (QB/RB/WR). This with 6 pt TDs will change things up a bit.

Best way to look at this is with VBD, easiest with Draft Dominator.

 

[CalBear]

Basically the more points per TD for QB the harder it is to compete if you dont have a top QB. In a 6pt TD for QB league his 35 TD passer vs your 25 TD passer is 10 TDs you have to make up at your other positions to compete.Get a 30 TD thrower and you are in instantly in contention. And watch out dynasty leagues.In a 3 pt per TD its 5 tds between the rest of your team. Still an advantage for the better QB.

In 2009, Drew Brees led all QBs with 34 TDs. The #12 TD (worst starter in a 1-QB league), Tony Romo, had 26, a difference of 8 TDs on the year. So over the course of the season, a 2-point TD difference between the #1 QB and the baseline QB amounted to 16 points over the course of the season (1 ppg). Compare that to rushing TDs, where in a 2-RB league you had Chris Johnson scoring 18 TDs, and Cedric Benson (#24 in TDs) scoring 6.

 

[firstseason1988]

6 pts for passing td's makes qb's too valuable relative to the other positions.

It is so lame to me when people say it makes a QB too valuable, 6 pts per TD doesn't do that. QBs are the most valuable position on the field. Lame also when leagues use PPR "to even out value " . Why skew fantasy points to a less consequential stat than touchdowns or yards. QB TD points worth less = lame, PPR = extremely lame.

 

[spider321]

6 pts for passing td's makes qb's too valuable relative to the other positions.

It is so lame to me when people say it makes a QB too valuable, 6 pts per TD doesn't do that. QBs are the most valuable position on the field. Lame also when leagues use PPR "to even out value " . Why skew fantasy points to a less consequential stat than touchdowns or yards. QB TD points worth less = lame, PPR = extremely lame.

6pt passing td's = more lamenon-PPR = most lamefirstseason1988 = morest lamerLook ma, I can do it too!!!

 

[firstseason1988]

6 pts for passing td's makes qb's too valuable relative to the other positions.

It is so lame to me when people say it makes a QB too valuable, 6 pts per TD doesn't do that. QBs are the most valuable position on the field. Lame also when leagues use PPR "to even out value " . Why skew fantasy points to a less consequential stat than touchdowns or yards?QB TD points worth less = lame, PPR = extremely lame.

6pt passing td's = more lamenon-PPR = most lame

firstseason1988 = morest lamer

Look ma, I can do it too!!!

actually lame is having no substance to back it up. keep on being a layman fantasy football player in your ppr leagues. sorry you don't get it.

 

[karmarooster]

When people say it makes QBs more valuable, the word "good" is implied there. Good QBs -- or more importantly, QBs who throw a bunch of touchdowns -- become more valuable this way.As a proof, think of two different leagues. One gives 1000 fantasy points per TD pass. One gives 0 fantasy points per TD pass. Are good QBs more valuable in the former league than in the latter?

this is too simplistic. Imagine QB A (the top in the league) throws 30 TDs while QB B (ranked 12th) throws 20 TDs. in a 6 pt/TD league, QB A would have 180 points while QB would have 120 points, a difference of 60 points from the best to 12th best players. In a 4pt/TD league, it would be 120 points for A and 80 points for B.... a difference of 40 points. thats why QBs are more valuable in a league that gives 6 pts instead of 4. Thus, it's more important to get a top 5 guy in a 6pt league, whereas in a 4pt league you can more safely/easily wait for the value guys.

 

[Tau837]

Since value is based on points scored above a baseline, and increasing the scoring for TDs will increase the differential between the best QBs and the baseline QBs, yes, 6 point passing TDs will make QBs more valuable than they would be with 4 point passing TDs.However, the effect is slight, and they're still a lot less valuable than RBs or WRs.

 

[Bamac]

Since value is based on points scored above a baseline, increasing the scoring for TDs will increase the differential between the best QBs and the baseline QBs, yes, 6 point passing TDs will make QBs more valuable than they would be with 4 point passing TDs.

However, the effect is slight, and they're still a lot less valuable than RBs or WRs.

Just to generalize: anytime you increase points for a stat that is positively correlated with the highest value players at a given position, you increase the value of that position.

But if you increase points for a stat that is negatively correlated with high value players at a position, you decrease the value of that position. For instance, increasing the points for QB rushing yards may actually decrease the value of the QB position in years that the 10-15 ranked QBs are more likely to gain rushing yards than the 1-5 QBs.

 

[whitem0nkey]

in my league we have all TDs are 6, all fumbles lost/INT -2 and half PPR(start 3 WRs). having these rules makes the first round and the rest of the draft much more diverse. in the first round we will have 2-4 QBs taken and 2-3 WRs taken. it makes you think more as you cant just take RBs in the first round.

here is the top 10 all positions break down weeks 1-17

Top 10 all positions

1. Rodgers, Aaron GBP QB 445.30

2. Brees, Drew NOS QB 404.80

3. Favre, Brett MIN QB 391.10

4. Manning, Peyton IND QB 389.30

5. Schaub, Matt HOU QB 386.40

6. Brady, Tom NEP QB 370.30

7. Romo, Tony DAL QB 370.15

8. Johnson, Chris TEN RB 367.90

9. Rivers, Philip SDC QB 367.70

10. Roethlisberger, Ben PIT QB 361.90

top 10 QB

1. Rodgers, Aaron GBP QB 445.30

2. Brees, Drew NOS QB 404.80

3. Favre, Brett MIN QB 391.10

4. Manning, Peyton IND QB 389.30

5. Schaub, Matt HOU QB 386.40

6. Brady, Tom NEP QB 370.30

7. Romo, Tony DAL QB 370.15

8. Rivers, Philip SDC QB 367.70

9. Roethlisberger, Ben PIT QB 361.90

10. Manning, Eli NYG QB 325.55

top 10 RB

1. Johnson, Chris TEN RB 367.90

2. Jones-Drew, Maurice JAC RB 302.55

3. Peterson, Adrian MIN RB 298.80

4. Rice, Ray BAL RB 285.30

5. Charles, Jamaal KCC RB 258.85

6. Gore, Frank SFO RB 252.60

7. Jackson, Fred BUF RB 247.80

8. Jones, Thomas NYJ RB 235.00

9. Williams, Ricky MIA RB 230.10

10. Sproles, Darren SDC RB 226.65

top 10 WR

1. Johnson, Andre HOU WR 264.40

2. Jackson, DeSean PHI WR 253.95

3. Moss, Randy NEP WR 245.90

4. Austin, Miles DAL WR 245.15

5. Welker, Wes NEP WR 243.05

6. Fitzgerald, Larry ARI WR 235.70

7. Wayne, Reggie IND WR 234.40

8. Harvin, Percy MIN WR ® 228.30

9. Marshall, Brandon DEN WR 226.40

10. White, Roddy ATL WR 224.00

from most to least important QB>RB>WR>TE this is true in the NFL and the fantasy scoring tries to reflect that.

ETA: and we start- 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE

 

[ScottNorwood]

When people say it makes QBs more valuable, the word "good" is implied there. Good QBs -- or more importantly, QBs who throw a bunch of touchdowns -- become more valuable this way.As a proof, think of two different leagues. One gives 1000 fantasy points per TD pass. One gives 0 fantasy points per TD pass. Are good QBs more valuable in the former league than in the latter?

I want to play in this league!

 

[g5jamz]

As a league...we originally had 4pt pass tds and 6 rush/receiving...no PPR. Typical 1pt for every 20yd passing. .1 for every yard gained (run/pass)

That first year...it was a running back haven. First round was dominated by running back picks and 4 out of the top 5 picks in the redraft were in the playoffs.

The following year...QBs were added to 6pt td and a flex TE/WR. Then you started seeing a few QBs creep into the 1st round and making a HUGE impact if you had a Brady (at that time). The playoffs then consisted of players from around the 1st pick through the 7th pick.

Then we added PPR. Now we've had winners/playoff contenders in the teens (14 teamer).

What the scoring does is make the draft more balanced and more of a sense that you can compete despite having a late 1st round pick, which I've had pretty consistently.

Look at the top 10 lists whitemonkey did...now think if they'd gone a full pt for PPR. The numbers would've pulled up even more closely position to position.

 

[Joe Bryant]

6 pts for passing td's makes qb's too valuable relative to the other positions.

It is so lame to me when people say it makes a QB too valuable, 6 pts per TD doesn't do that. QBs are the most valuable position on the field. Lame also when leagues use PPR "to even out value " . Why skew fantasy points to a less consequential stat than touchdowns or yards?QB TD points worth less = lame, PPR = extremely lame.

6pt passing td's = more lamenon-PPR = most lame

firstseason1988 = morest lamer

Look ma, I can do it too!!!

actually lame is having no substance to back it up. keep on being a layman fantasy football player in your ppr leagues. sorry you don't get it.

Everyone stop this kind of catfighting now if you want to keep posting here.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

I hear sometimes that QBs scoring 6pts for TDs makes them more valuable. Can someone prove or disprove that statement?

The way I look at is QBs, regardless of whether they score 2pts per TD, or 6pt per TD, are still compared against QBs in terms of rankings and tiers. So the drop off between QBs in any scoring system is going to be the same, generally.

Maybe it becomes an issue when deciding where to take a QB? Does getting 6pts for QB TDs mean that QBs should be drafted earlier than they normally would be?

Discuss.

This is where you FAIL.

If you come back after your week off, be a LOT cooler.J