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A big win for fantasy football! No more DFS in NY! (1 Viewer)

Just my opinion. Maybe those with this POV are chasing windmills, but you can't fault us for this opinion, especially with the amount of pimping of DFS FBG has done this year.
FWIW, I've tried to make super-clear at all times that I don't fault anyone for their opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Everyone is entitled to act on their opinions. This is the main means of accountability that drives the engine of capitalism. Some people interpret this as "if you don't like it, you know where the door is", when in reality, it's "the only reason we have such nice things is because consumers make their preferences plain and put the impetus on businesses to respond to those preferences".

My opinion is that FBGs hasn't been "pimping DFS" so much as it's been selling its ad space to those who are interested in buying it, (business as usual), and making an effort to cover all areas of fantasy that people are actually playing, (business as usual). DFS changed the space, but from my perspective at least it hasn't changed how FBGs does business. But I totally get that for a lot of people this feels like something new and unprecedented. Again, I'm not in the business of telling people how they should feel. Ain't nobody got time for that.

 
Todem said:
That has been the American way for our entire lives. So unless you want to go back to horse drawn wagon and trading post days....this is the country we live in. DFS will become regulated properly and it will not die. Hosting sites for year long fantasy? No issues IMO. You think the government is going to now track every single persons paypal account? GTFOH.

DFS operate similar to online casinos and therefore are going to be under the microscopic eye like other casinos have to be. Simple as that. Money is changing hands. And due to the wild popularity and insane marketing blitz billions are changing hands.

Let it play out. FF is not going away. Believe me.....it's not. Maybe some peoples income from profiting on this "hobby" will.
Best summary I've seen of the current state of affairs and of where it'll end up. There's not going to be any governmental interest in tracking down every winner in every $100 season-long league in the country. People claiming otherwise are just being disingenuous.

It's surprising to see the level of scare tactics in this thread (and on the site beginning with DD's email). Treating your membership like easily-swayed children isn't very respectful, and hasn't been the site's MO previously. Something changed.

 
Something I think football guys should consider if they haven't already is the seemingly growing contingent of their customers who are resentful of DFS and think that fbg is compromised in terms of trust with their customers given their relationship with the DFS sites.

The impression I have of this exchange over the past month or two is that fbg seems to think their advertisers are more of a customer than the users. These threads are a great example of staffers flat out ignoring their customers' view (right or wrong) that the service that fbg provides has now been compromised and seem to be dismissive and/or antagonistic with respect to the issue of DFS.

In the last 14 years or so here I really have not heard that complaint before, and is a pretty serious pr issue I think fbg may need to deal with at some point.

 
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This thread has many more people posting who don't like the affiliation between DFS and FBG than people who are indifferent or who support it, thus creating the perception that the sentiment is growing against the union. My guess is that most people are indifferent TBH.

So I'm throwing my support behind FBG 100% in their choices to add DFS content/ads/whatever they think is best for running their business.

 
Something I think football guys should consider if they haven't already is the seemingly growing contingent of their customers who are resentful of DFS and think that fbg is compromised in terms of trust with their customers given their relationship with the DFS sites.

The impression I have of this exchange over the past month or two is that fbg seems to think their advertisers are more of a customer than the users. These threads are a great example of staffers flat out ignoring their customers' view (right or wrong) that the service that fbg provides has now been compromised and seem to be dismissive and/or antagonistic with respect to the issue of DFS.

In the last 14 years or so here I really have not heard that complaint before, and is a pretty serious pr issue I think fbg may need to deal with at some point.
I know you were around when FBG first started taking advertising. It was the end of the world. J sold out. Everyone was going to cancel. At least that's what you would have thought based on the boards.

I know you were around when FBG first started charging for their material. Pretty of free material. FBG wouldn't survive on a pay model. J was making a money grab. At least that's what you would have thought based on the boards.

 
Something I think football guys should consider if they haven't already is the seemingly growing contingent of their customers who are resentful of DFS and think that fbg is compromised in terms of trust with their customers given their relationship with the DFS sites.

The impression I have of this exchange over the past month or two is that fbg seems to think their advertisers are more of a customer than the users. These threads are a great example of staffers flat out ignoring their customers' view (right or wrong) that the service that fbg provides has now been compromised and seem to be dismissive and/or antagonistic with respect to the issue of DFS.

In the last 14 years or so here I really have not heard that complaint before, and is a pretty serious pr issue I think fbg may need to deal with at some point.
Again, I think this is a no-win situation for FBGs.

I will completely agree that there's seemingly a growing contingent of FBGs' customers who are resentful of DFS and think that FBGs is compromised. What percentage of FBGs' customer base do you think this represents?

On the other hand, what percentage of FBGs' customer base do you think plays DFS? I don't know the numbers, I'm just saying, if DFS companies have spent $250,000,000 so far this year on advertising, (and, including sponsorships of programming and such, I've heard estimates reach as high as $500,000,000), how successful do you think that campaign has been? How many people do you think play DFS nationally?

To me, it's silly to suggest that FBGs' advertisers are more of a customer than its users. The advertisers aren't clicking on pages and viewing all that DFS content that's being produced. The advertisers aren't paying good money for the right to reach other advertisers. The advertisers aren't downloading the Daily Crusher and paying for data every week. The advertisers aren't playing against Joe and David and Sigmund every week in the FanDuel Footballguys Championship. Real, honest-to-goodness people are doing that. People who pay Footballguys money for their services. FBGs' customers are, and always have been, the customers. And those DFS customers are every bit as much customers as the seasonal customers. Oftentimes, they're the same exact customers. And they have every bit as much of a right to FBGs information as the seasonal guys. The seasonal guys don't really have a right, in my opinion, to plant their flag and say "Look, this is our fantasy football resource, we had it first, and we refuse to share it." Though they absolutely have a right to say "we refuse to support you if you continue to support DFS".

DFS is, at the end of the day, a fantasy football product. Footballguys is a fantasy football website. Many of the people on staff have been playing DFS for years. Sigmund Bloom talks about how he got into fantasy football via the forerunner to DFS over a decade ago. So there's no real moral objection to DFS as a product or anything. And again, from a practical standpoint, other than the advertising blitz it's really not all that different from the FPC, which Footballguys owns a stake in and has marketed heavily for years.

So you've got DFS, which is played by millions, clearly falls under the umbrella of the site's mission, is enjoyed by most of the staff, (though not me), and to which no one here has any real moral objection to, (to the best of my knowledge). And you've got a portion of the subscriber base that is so vehemently against it that their view of Footballguys is reduced simply by the association between them, nevermind that Footballguys is still providing all the same non-DFS resources it's always been providing at a subscription rate that has risen at a rate of less than a buck a year, (well below market trends).

What is FBGs to do? By keeping DFS, they alienate those who want DFS banished from the site. By jettisoning DFS, they alienate the millions upon millions who enjoy DFS and play regularly. There's no option that keeps everyone happy. But at the end of the day, as I said before, businesses exist to give people products that they want. Businesses do not exist to not give people products they don't want. I can't expect a hat company to stop carrying turbans just because I'm anti-turban. They're a hat company. Selling hats is their job.

It seems to me that very, very little consideration is being given so far to the actual people who actually play DFS. I promise you that they exist, and that they subscribe to Footballguys, and that they consume all of this DFS content that FBGs is putting out that everyone seems to hate so much. You can think that FanDuel is an unethical unregulated gambling ring and still think that Steve from accounting deserves to get what help he can when he plays there just as much as Jane in human resources, (who is more an IDP dynasty fanatic).

I'm sorry if you feel like I'm ignoring the concerns of the anti-DFS crowd. I'm in this thread, (not at the behest of anyone), precisely because I know I'm one of the few staffers that are active on the forums, and so I'm making a huge effort to engage with an issue that I know is really, really important to a lot of people precisely so they won't feel like they're being ignored. I'm sorry if you feel like I'm being antagonistic. I'm just trying my best to be as 100% transparent and straight-up about the issue as I can possibly be.

It's a hard issue. There's a lot of nuance and shades of gray, as much as both sides want to paint it as black-and-white. I don't know what the right answers are. In fact, I don't think there are any right answers. I think FBGs is working hard to try to find the least-wrong answers, the answers that will alienate and upset the fewest people. And it's a hard road to reach those answers, but from everything I see behind the scenes, they are treating it as the single biggest, most serious problem facing the industry today, and they are devoting the full extent of their resources to address it in the way that is most respectful to their customer base. Their *entire* customer base, including the ones who play DFS.

 
Something I think football guys should consider if they haven't already is the seemingly growing contingent of their customers who are resentful of DFS and think that fbg is compromised in terms of trust with their customers given their relationship with the DFS sites.

The impression I have of this exchange over the past month or two is that fbg seems to think their advertisers are more of a customer than the users. These threads are a great example of staffers flat out ignoring their customers' view (right or wrong) that the service that fbg provides has now been compromised and seem to be dismissive and/or antagonistic with respect to the issue of DFS.

In the last 14 years or so here I really have not heard that complaint before, and is a pretty serious pr issue I think fbg may need to deal with at some point.
I have been a life-long fan of football but I am new to fantasy football. I greatly enjoy season-long fanasy football and joined FBGs last year to gain more knowledge. In other posts, I have shared my discontent about DFF and did not re-join FBGs this year for that reason. In fact, I purchased the two-year subscription thinking that the knowledge would be worth the price for season-long fantasy football. Unfortunately and in due respect to FBGs, the far majority of articles are geared toward DFF. I have had enough with the DFF ads on TV only to be bombarded with article after article on DFF on FBGs. I will maintain my subscription, but I must say that I am one of those who question FBGs relationship with DFF in light of the ethical issues confronting DFS in general.

 
Full disclosure I would pay double my subscription annually just for the draft dominator and projections dominator alone.

 
For those wondering about the value of advertising…the average FBG subscription costs around $30. They started with 18000 customers in 2008. They took a slight hit during the year it looked like there would be a work stoppage. Either J or D mentioned membership had been flat and that subscribers weren't inclined to recommend their secret weapon. Based on the participation in the subscriber contest I would guess about 35000 customers. That would be $900k in gross revenue.

There are roughly 60 staff members producing 50000 pages of content. Some are full time, some part time. Let's say they pay an average of $10000 each, that's $600k of the $900. You still have to have the infrastructure for the website and forums. They give out another another 40-50k in their subscribers contests. Add in the accountant, lawyer, and general business expenses. Looks to me like the customers supply the funds to keep the site afloat and the advertisers supply the profit.

Footballguys has 14000 Facebook likes, fan duel has 1,127,000 likes. That's over one million more.

Fanduel has a single contest in one sport that takes in more revenue weekly then FBG does in a year.

Regardless of your feelings about dfs and how it's ruined the hobby we started with back with hand scoring in our garages, FBG would be absolutely foolish and committing business suicide by ignoring the dfs market.

 
You can think that FanDuel is an unethical unregulated gambling ring and still think that Steve from accounting deserves to get what help he can when he plays there just as much as Jane in human resources, (who is more an IDP dynasty fanatic).
What about Janice in accounting?

 
They normally take up to 2 days, so does "3 days behind" mean it's taking 3 days, or 5 days?

For what it's worth, I withdrew last Tuesday and received the money on Thursday, then withdrew again on Friday and received the money Sunday.
I made another withdrawal yesterday and received the money today.

 
You can think that FanDuel is an unethical unregulated gambling ring and still think that Steve from accounting deserves to get what help he can when he plays there just as much as Jane in human resources, (who is more an IDP dynasty fanatic).
What about Janice in accounting?
Janice in accounting still hasn't chipped in the $20 she owes from last year's March Madness brackets. She's on her own.

 
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Regardless of your feelings about dfs and how it's ruined the hobby we started with back with hand scoring in our garages, FBG would be absolutely foolish and committing business suicide by ignoring the dfs market.
That's exactly the kind of reasoning Virgil Sollozzo gave Vito Corleone.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
The New York Attorney General is not seeking to "regulate" DFS. He's seeking to ban it.
What the Massachusetts Attorney General is doing, now that is regulation. She's basically enacting all of Dodds' suggestions from our staff's internal emails.
Nice start there.

I do think it's funny an 18 year old can be trusted to vote but not play DFS if that becomes law.
This would be a big win all around... except for the sharks

  • Less than two percent of all players win 90 percent of all prizes. These professional and other highly-experienced players will be easily identifiable to other players.
 
Maurile Tremblay said:
The New York Attorney General is not seeking to "regulate" DFS. He's seeking to ban it.
What the Massachusetts Attorney General is doing, now that is regulation. She's basically enacting all of Dodds' suggestions from our staff's internal emails.
Nice start there.

I do think it's funny an 18 year old can be trusted to vote but not play DFS if that becomes law.
This would be a big win all around... except for the sharks

  • Less than two percent of all players win 90 percent of all prizes. These professional and other highly-experienced players will be easily identifiable to other players.
She's basically just saying that DraftKings should copy the policy that FanDuel already has in place. At FanDuel, you can click on a player and see how many contests he's won in each sport. In the Mass. AG's press conference, that's what it sounded like she was proposing.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
The New York Attorney General is not seeking to "regulate" DFS. He's seeking to ban it.
What the Massachusetts Attorney General is doing, now that is regulation. She's basically enacting all of Dodds' suggestions from our staff's internal emails.
This legislation is great, finally an AG coming out who actually took time to learn the industry and put good safeguards in place. I didn't see one bullet point that I would disagree with in the attempt at regulating this industry.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
The New York Attorney General is not seeking to "regulate" DFS. He's seeking to ban it.
What the Massachusetts Attorney General is doing, now that is regulation. She's basically enacting all of Dodds' suggestions from our staff's internal emails.
This legislation is great, finally an AG coming out who actually took time to learn the industry and put good safeguards in place. I didn't see one bullet point that I would disagree with in the attempt at regulating this industry.
Yup hard to argue with anything there

 
Just saw this tweet from Andrew Brandt.

In October DraftKings hired former Mass. AG Martha Coakley as an advisor. Coakley was boss of current Mass. AG Maura Healey. Quite a web.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
The New York Attorney General is not seeking to "regulate" DFS. He's seeking to ban it.
What the Massachusetts Attorney General is doing, now that is regulation. She's basically enacting all of Dodds' suggestions from our staff's internal emails.
Nice start there.

I do think it's funny an 18 year old can be trusted to vote but not play DFS if that becomes law.
This would be a big win all around... except for the sharks

  • Less than two percent of all players win 90 percent of all prizes. These professional and other highly-experienced players will be easily identifiable to other players.
She's basically just saying that DraftKings should copy the policy that FanDuel already has in place. At FanDuel, you can click on a player and see how many contests he's won in each sport. In the Mass. AG's press conference, that's what it sounded like she was proposing.
Not using the phone app (that I could figure out).

 
Steeler said:
This thread has many more people posting who don't like the affiliation between DFS and FBG than people who are indifferent or who support it, thus creating the perception that the sentiment is growing against the union. My guess is that most people are indifferent TBH.

So I'm throwing my support behind FBG 100% in their choices to add DFS content/ads/whatever they think is best for running their business.
I enjoy the DFS content as well.

And to be honest, if a fantasy football website in today's world DOESN'T have at least a little bit of DFS content, they are behind the times. You can argue the legality of it all you want but millions of people still have fun playing it and seek DFS content.

 
I don't think anyone should blame FBGs for having DFS content. They pretty much have to. Nor does anyone blame them for wanting it to stick around since it is a part of their business.

But the initial email was over the top, that set people off. And I have yet to see staffer simply say "of course we are motivated to promote DFS because it has become a huge chunk of our business, and of course that motivation plays into our defense of DFS."

There's nothing wrong with that, it is to be expected.They'd be ####ty businessmen if that were not true. If someone has said that, then sorry i missed it.

As a side discussion the way DFS has come out with guns blazing trying to take over the world has caused a pretty intense backlash from non-dfs players. As such an aggressive defense of DFS is going to cause an intense backlash, as we see by many in this thread.

The good news is this thread has provided a nice outlet for folk to vent their frustration.

 
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Just my opinion. Maybe those with this POV are chasing windmills, but you can't fault us for this opinion, especially with the amount of pimping of DFS FBG has done this year.
FWIW, I've tried to make super-clear at all times that I don't fault anyone for their opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Everyone is entitled to act on their opinions. This is the main means of accountability that drives the engine of capitalism. Some people interpret this as "if you don't like it, you know where the door is", when in reality, it's "the only reason we have such nice things is because consumers make their preferences plain and put the impetus on businesses to respond to those preferences".

My opinion is that FBGs hasn't been "pimping DFS" so much as it's been selling its ad space to those who are interested in buying it, (business as usual), and making an effort to cover all areas of fantasy that people are actually playing, (business as usual). DFS changed the space, but from my perspective at least it hasn't changed how FBGs does business. But I totally get that for a lot of people this feels like something new and unprecedented. Again, I'm not in the business of telling people how they should feel. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Perhaps if Old Spice had bought all that advertising time, FBG would have dedicated their features, columns, analysis, etc. to which scent smelled best. Staff members would have been pulled from traditional fantasy analysis and re-assigned to providing paying members with deodorant coverage around the clock.

No, of course not. And that's why FBG "pimping DFS" is so different from FBG selling ad spaces to companies as "business as usual".

 
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I don't think anyone should blame FBGs for having DFS content. They pretty much have to. Nor does anyone blame them for wanting it to stick around since it is a part of their business.

But the initial email was over the top, that set people off. And I have yet to see staffer simply say "of course we are motivated to promote DFS because it has become a huge chunk of our business, and of course that motivation plays into our defense of DFS."

There's nothing wrong with that, it is to be expected.They'd be ####ty businessmen if that were not true. If someone has said that, then sorry i missed it.
I've tried to touch on it a bit in this thread, most notably in this post.

The more places that fantasy is allowed, the more types of fantasy allowed, the more people playing fantasy football, the better it is for Footballguys. But all that means is that Footballguys is going to be pro-Fantasy Football, across the board. And if there are threats to fantasy football, in any way, shape, or form, Footballguys is going to go to bat for it.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
The New York Attorney General is not seeking to "regulate" DFS. He's seeking to ban it.
What the Massachusetts Attorney General is doing, now that is regulation. She's basically enacting all of Dodds' suggestions from our staff's internal emails.
Nice start there.

I do think it's funny an 18 year old can be trusted to vote but not play DFS if that becomes law.
You can say that about anything.

They're already trusted to vote but not gamble in most states. Not trusted to consume alcohol. Not trusted to _____....

 
Full disclosure I would pay double my subscription annually just for the draft dominator and projections dominator alone.
You know you can buy DD just for $5? And you can just create an excel spreadsheet or download a new spreadsheet for projections, replace the file for projections in DD and voila, you have an updated Draft Dominator...That's all they replace every year, the projections file. Which updates with new player names etc. you don't need to redownload this every year. I just found this out a month or two ago and it's true

 
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Just my opinion. Maybe those with this POV are chasing windmills, but you can't fault us for this opinion, especially with the amount of pimping of DFS FBG has done this year.
FWIW, I've tried to make super-clear at all times that I don't fault anyone for their opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Everyone is entitled to act on their opinions. This is the main means of accountability that drives the engine of capitalism. Some people interpret this as "if you don't like it, you know where the door is", when in reality, it's "the only reason we have such nice things is because consumers make their preferences plain and put the impetus on businesses to respond to those preferences".

My opinion is that FBGs hasn't been "pimping DFS" so much as it's been selling its ad space to those who are interested in buying it, (business as usual), and making an effort to cover all areas of fantasy that people are actually playing, (business as usual). DFS changed the space, but from my perspective at least it hasn't changed how FBGs does business. But I totally get that for a lot of people this feels like something new and unprecedented. Again, I'm not in the business of telling people how they should feel. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Perhaps if Old Spice had bought all that advertising time, FBG would have dedicated their features, columns, analysis, etc. to which scent smelled best. Staff members would have been pulled from traditional fantasy analysis and re-assigned to providing paying members with deodorant coverage around the clock.

No, of course not. And that's why FBG "pimping DFS" is so different from FBG selling ad spaces to companies as "business as usual".
First off, who is being pulled from traditional fantasy analysis and re-assigned? Can you give me any examples? Because I could go through a feature-by-feature comparison to show that there's exactly as much redraft content today as there was two years ago, (more if you count the *huge* upgrades to MyFBG in recent years), plus nearly twice as much dynasty content. In fact, I've already done just that. Nobody's getting "pulled" from seasonal. Nobody gets "assigned", anyway- most content is elective, with staff volunteering to write features that appeal to them. In mid-August, Clayton solicits pitches for features, as well as a preferred timetable, (weekly, bi-weekly, monthly). The higher-ups then consider the pitches and greenlight.

When I joined in February of 2013, there were 40 people on staff. I believe only one guy, (James Brimacombe), had a DFS focus. Today, there are 60 people on staff. If you want to know where all the DFS content is coming from, that's a good place to start. Steve Buzzard, John Lee, Justin Bonnema, Austin Lee, Alex Miglio, Devin Knotts, Keith Roberts, John Mamula, Chris Feery, BJ VanderWoude, Danny Tuccitto... I want to say all of them were brought on in the last two years. Footballguys has made a dramatic hiring push to fill out their DFS content. It's not coming at the expense of their core seasonal content, which has remained relatively static, (as is expected from a much more mature industry).

Second off, Footballguys isn't producing DFS content because it's getting ad money from DFS. DFS is a multi-billion dollar industry, and not because nobody is playing it. Tons and tons of people are playing it. There's been big subscriber growth over the last two years, and much, (/most), of it is people who are playing DFS and looking for DFS content. Footballguys has added DFS content because it serves the needs of its subscriber base, not out of anything to do with advertisers.

DFS is fantasy football. Footballguys bills itself as a website where owners can get the best fantasy football analysis. They have advertising partnerships with some of the sites, (they had an exclusive deal with FanDuel a couple years back), but content is ultimately produced for the subscribers, not the advertisers. If anything, advertisers want nothing to do with content that nobody actually reads. No readers = no page views = no ad impressions.

DFS vs. Seasonal is not an "either / or". It's a "both / and". The DFS boom helps seasonal, in that it gets more people playing. The extra revenue from DFS subscribers helps FBGs afford more robust servers, which means seasonal guys pulling up their 10-second primer get faster load times and less downtime. It means more up-time for the forums. Strong app sales for the DFS-focused Daily Crusher means a bigger budget for the app development team, which means new hires, which means a better, more feature-rich Mobile Draft Dominator. "DFS dollars" let FBGs beef up their staff, and a lot of the staff has crossover interests and add features on the seasonal side, too. James Brimacombe was brought on for DFS. He's one of the few staffers who submits IDP Dynasty rankings. Danny Tuccitto was partly a DFS hire, too. He's got the strongest statistical background of anyone on staff other than Doug Drinen and he writes on the seasonal side about how best to predict regression in fantasy. Craig Zumsteg doubles the number of "injury experts" on staff, which helps both DFS and seasonal, (though I'd say the injury guys are a bigger benefit in seasonal; the big selling point in DFS, remember, is that injuries don't wreck your season).

Similarly, DFS subscribers benefit from FBGs' robust seasonal subscriber base, too. They get to take advantage of an infrastructure that's already in place, and get projections from people who already have 10+ years experience in the space. Once again, the more people are into Footballguys, the better Footballguys becomes for everyone.

 
Full disclosure I would pay double my subscription annually just for the draft dominator and projections dominator alone.
You know you can buy DD just for $5? And you can just create an excel spreadsheet or download a new spreadsheet for projections, replace the file for projections in DD and voila, you have an updated Draft Dominator...That's all they replace every year, the projections file. Which updates with new player names etc. you don't need to redownload this every year. I just found this out a month or two ago and it's true
You can get the mobile Draft Dominator for $5, and that price also includes all projections updates through the entire offseason.

You can get the desktop version of the Draft Dominator for free, which only includes the earliest set of projections, (early June, maybe?). If you want updated projections beyond that, you need to subscribe. If you're fine doing your own rankings / projections, though, enjoy the software; there's no need to spend another dime.

I believe the Projections Dominator is also free to download, but you have to subscribe to get the up-to-date projections. There's currently no equivalent app for mobile.

 
The ads aren't just about being annoying, they're borderline predatory. The fact that they're in subscriber emails that people are paying for access to are doubly bad.

Really though, it's just a violation of trust. The way DFS works is that most people lose money. Most people that FBGs redirects over there aren't the super dedicated crowd that runs their computer algorithms and comes out on top, and most probably aren't even here posting in the SP and reading up on things. Most people are losers paying the couple of big fish. And really, I'm sure FBG is ok with that because the way DFS affiliates work is that FBG not only makes money on your initial deposit, but also on your re-buys. Yes, FBG makes more money when you lose than when you win, and most people they're sending over there are losing.

Like I said, it's a violation of trust. People pay their $30/year subscription fee so FBG can guide them to do well at fantasy football. FBGs used to do that. Now they're taking that $30 subscription fee and, rather than seeing it as money earned in exchange for FF knowledge, they see it as an opportunity for a new lead that they can make even more money off of at the subscribers expense. Subscribers are putting their trust in the FBG staff, and the FBG staff is intentionally leading them into a situation where they will probably lose money so that FBGs can get in on the DFS profits. It's scummy, scammy, and low. Not how I would have described FBGs two years ago, but probably a fair analysis now. This is made doubly bad by the email Dodds sent out recently (again, including paying subscribers) to sign the petition to save DFS under the completely made up guise that yearly fantasy was going to go down with it. Insulting.

The faster DFS dies and I can quit being lambasted by predatory ads from formerly trusted FBGs telling me how easily I can become a millionaire if I just throw $100 this way the same way that a porn site advertises that there are women in my area looking to score with me, the better.
The bolded bothered me as well.

While understand what SSOG and other "FBG-apologists" are saying, if I were the FBG higher-ups, I'd careful about cuddling up too closely with DFS. Sometimes perception is reality - and the perception of DFS to the casual fan (and legislators) is not favorable right now. Heck, it's not favorable with many long-time fantasy football people.

 
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The ads aren't just about being annoying, they're borderline predatory. The fact that they're in subscriber emails that people are paying for access to are doubly bad.

Really though, it's just a violation of trust. The way DFS works is that most people lose money. Most people that FBGs redirects over there aren't the super dedicated crowd that runs their computer algorithms and comes out on top, and most probably aren't even here posting in the SP and reading up on things. Most people are losers paying the couple of big fish. And really, I'm sure FBG is ok with that because the way DFS affiliates work is that FBG not only makes money on your initial deposit, but also on your re-buys. Yes, FBG makes more money when you lose than when you win, and most people they're sending over there are losing.

Like I said, it's a violation of trust. People pay their $30/year subscription fee so FBG can guide them to do well at fantasy football. FBGs used to do that. Now they're taking that $30 subscription fee and, rather than seeing it as money earned in exchange for FF knowledge, they see it as an opportunity for a new lead that they can make even more money off of at the subscribers expense. Subscribers are putting their trust in the FBG staff, and the FBG staff is intentionally leading them into a situation where they will probably lose money so that FBGs can get in on the DFS profits. It's scummy, scammy, and low. Not how I would have described FBGs two years ago, but probably a fair analysis now. This is made doubly bad by the email Dodds sent out recently (again, including paying subscribers) to sign the petition to save DFS under the completely made up guise that yearly fantasy was going to go down with it. Insulting.

The faster DFS dies and I can quit being lambasted by predatory ads from formerly trusted FBGs telling me how easily I can become a millionaire if I just throw $100 this way the same way that a porn site advertises that there are women in my area looking to score with me, the better.
The bolded bothered me as well.While understand what SSOG and other "FBG-apologists" are saying, if I were the FBG higher-ups, I'd careful about cuddling up too closely with DFS. Sometimes perception is reality - and the perception of DFS to the casual fan (and legislators) is not favorable right now. Heck, it's not favorable with many long-time fantasy football people.
Ive made my opinion on this well known. So I won't rehash that. What I want to point out is I don't blame FBG for getting into DFS material and going after that base of customers. I get it, the company needs to keep up to stay relevant. That's not what's bothering folks. I think DoubleG and freebagel do a good job explaining what is bothering folks

 
I guess I just don't understand all the bashing of the original email from Dodds. I'm a DFS player, but found the argument to sign the petition tenuous so I simply deleted the email :shrug:

 
I was glad the email from Dodds went out and felt it was both relevant and appropriate at the time. I'm surprised by the the level of hate in this thread, would have thought that would just be a simple delete and forget if you didn't like the email.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
The New York Attorney General is not seeking to "regulate" DFS. He's seeking to ban it.
What the Massachusetts Attorney General is doing, now that is regulation. She's basically enacting all of Dodds' suggestions from our staff's internal emails.
Nice start there.

I do think it's funny an 18 year old can be trusted to vote but not play DFS if that becomes law.
You can say that about anything.

They're already trusted to vote but not gamble in most states. Not trusted to consume alcohol. Not trusted to _____....
Oh I know just thought it was funny. Honestly the voting age should be higher but that's another thread.

 
The bolded bothered me as well.

While understand what SSOG and other "FBG-apologists" are saying, if I were the FBG higher-ups, I'd careful about cuddling up too closely with DFS. Sometimes perception is reality - and the perception of DFS to the casual fan (and legislators) is not favorable right now. Heck, it's not favorable with many long-time fantasy football people.
The perception of some casual fans towards DFS is negative right now. We're seeing that pretty clearly in this thread. The perception of some legislatures and government officials is also negative. Look at the New York Attorney General.

But the perception of some casual fans is also really positive. What percentage of FBGs' subscriber base right now plays DFS? I really have no clue whatsoever, but if I'm making a complete and total shot-in-the-dark guess, I'd peg it at 33-50%. DFS is, as I keep saying, a multi-billion dollar business. Millions of people are playing. And a lot of seasonal fantasy fans are giving it a shot and enjoying it.

And the reaction of some legislators is also positive. See the proposed regulations in Massachusetts, which paint DFS as something with issues that need addressing, but also with value that is worth preserving.

We're all naturally biased to assume that everyone sees things the way that we do, and the truth is that the people who feel most passionately are the people whose voices are going to stand out. But as GreenNGold and Steeler just demonstrated, there are a lot of people who were perfectly fine with the email, and who have no problem with DFS, and who we're largely just not hearing from. But they're still subscribers and fantasy football players, and FBGs is still tasked with catering to their desires and representing their interests, too.

I'd be really curious to hear some participants in this thread break down what they think the percentages are. What percent of Footballguys' subscribers do you think

1) have a strong negative opinion towards DFS

2) have a weak negative opinion towards DFS

3) have a neutral opinion towards DFS

4) have a weak positive opinion towards DFS

5) have a strong positive opinion towards DFS

I don't know the answer to that question, but I think how we all answered would say a lot about our own biases and how we view the issue. If I was taking a completely wild guess at it, I might put it at 5%, 30%, 15%, 30%, 20%. But that's not based off of anything substantial, it's just a wild guess based on my interactions with people on the forums and via email and over Twitter, and second-hand information I hear when chatting with various people in the industry.

Maybe I'm way off in my guesses. Maybe 60+% of the fantasy football community has a negative view of DFS and by aligning itself with DFS Footballguys is making a truly grave strategic error. As I said, the market is really, really good at delivering feedback, so if that's the case, we're going to know pretty quickly, and FBGs is going to go about correcting course and going back to giving the market what it wants.

Like I said, though, I think industries exist primarily to give people what they do want, not to not give people what they don't want. There are no stores that market themselves by saying "we're a place you can come to not buy a hat". But there are plenty of that say "we're a place you can come to buy a hat".

Anyone in the anti-DFS crowd care to venture a guess to those five percentages? Anyone with ideas for how Footballguys could cover DFS differently so it didn't look like they were "cuddling up too closely"?

 
I used to hate it. Now I love it. Another outlet to fantasy. Redraft, keeper, dynasty, daily.

I vote 5 and I'm in NY

The balance is good. I wish some articles for both redraft and daily came out sooner however.

 
Adam, to be honest, the bombardment of advertising is what turned me against DFS, and I do think the content provided to us subscribers who don't play has to be affected. There are only so many hours in a day, for staffers that are providing content for seasonal leagues and DFS, there is no way that they have time to do both at what we were use to before DFS evolved. Now, if you tell me no staffer is involved in providing content for both of these, then I will reevaluate my decision not to renew my subscription. I vote #2.

 
I would vote 5 as well. I love DFS and love the content that FBG provides for it. I also am an owner of several dynasty leagues as well which is the content that I came to FBG for in the first place before there was DFS content. I've noticed no drop off in quality of content for my regular or dynasty league information, if anything, it's increased. I've happily paid for my subscription for years and the DFS content they now provide only makes it more worth my money. Were FBG to drop DFS content I would most likely take my subscription fees to a site that offers both as that is what I require.

 
Adam, to be honest, the bombardment of advertising is what turned me against DFS, and I do think the content provided to us subscribers who don't play has to be affected. There are only so many hours in a day, for staffers that are providing content for seasonal leagues and DFS, there is no way that they have time to do both at what we were use to before DFS evolved. Now, if you tell me no staffer is involved in providing content for both of these, then I will reevaluate my decision not to renew my subscription. I vote #2.
As someone who reads both season and daily articles, I can say that all of the new daily articles this year are being written by the "new guys".

 
Adam, to be honest, the bombardment of advertising is what turned me against DFS, and I do think the content provided to us subscribers who don't play has to be affected. There are only so many hours in a day, for staffers that are providing content for seasonal leagues and DFS, there is no way that they have time to do both at what we were use to before DFS evolved. Now, if you tell me no staffer is involved in providing content for both of these, then I will reevaluate my decision not to renew my subscription. I vote #2.
As someone who reads both season and daily articles, I can say that all of the new daily articles this year are being written by the "new guys".
Thanks, I'm probably just overreacting, need to separate the dislike the bombardment of all those DFS ads created, I'm more into dynasty leagues and Adam just posted in a different thread that he is working on some new stuff regarding dynasty.
 
Adam, to be honest, the bombardment of advertising is what turned me against DFS, and I do think the content provided to us subscribers who don't play has to be affected. There are only so many hours in a day, for staffers that are providing content for seasonal leagues and DFS, there is no way that they have time to do both at what we were use to before DFS evolved. Now, if you tell me no staffer is involved in providing content for both of these, then I will reevaluate my decision not to renew my subscription. I vote #2.
Oh yeah, I totally get this. 100%. I don't watch much TV. When I watch football, it's mostly RedZone channel. I watch the condensed games on Game Rewind, which cuts out commercials and stuff. I don't watch ESPN/NFL Network at all, or read any sites other than FBGs. I don't listen to many podcasts. Typically my only exposure to the ads is on SNF / MNF / TNF, and even that minimal exposure has me sick to death of them. And I think the ad campaigns themselves are kind of a joke. In addition to the whole advertising it like it's gambling and then putting on your shocked face when people might think it's gambling bit, just the fact that every single ad is an endless parade of late 20s to mid 30s white bros. Like... women play fantasy football, too. Minorities play fantasy football, too. People over the age of 40 play fantasy football. But they just really want that "bros with disposable income" market. Really, just a mess of an ad campaign all the way around.

The one thing that struck me is that the sites are spending a lot on ads, but it's really not any more than McDonald's, or Budweiser, or Geico. I think part of it is just the novelty; we've already grown accustomed to ads telling us if we go to a bar and order a crappy beer hot female bartenders will throw themselves at us, so those Budweiser ads might be about as common, but they've become background noise. We just don't see them.

The other big difference is how FanDuel and DraftKings are penetrating into spaces that we don't really think of as "advertising". They're sponsoring actual programming, and in a more intrusive way than just "Welcome to the Capital One Citrus Bowl brought to you by Capital One". Although there's nothing really new there, either- news sites have been doing "sponsored content" designed to be indistinguishable from actual editorial content for years, and it's just as icky there, too. I think that's where advertising is moving now in the era of ad blockers and DVRs and on-demand video. I'm sure the advertisers feel like they don't have a choice. It's almost like an arms race.

On FBGs' end, it's not like there's zero crossover between DFS staff and seasonal staff. Tremblay and Pasquino have a lot of crossover, now. But some of the "DFS guys" have crossover back the other way, too. And a lot of content is just universal- Jene's injury reports, all of the weekly projections, etc. Like I said, I think FBGs' offerings are stronger on the whole with a bigger and more diverse subscriber base. I definitely don't think the DFS coverage is cannibalizing seasonal in any way.

I'm almost exclusively dynasty anymore, and I've never gotten any pushback from on high when I want to expand what I'm doing. They've never tried to redirect me or anything. They've always been fully supportive.

 
Adam, to be honest, the bombardment of advertising is what turned me against DFS, and I do think the content provided to us subscribers who don't play has to be affected. There are only so many hours in a day, for staffers that are providing content for seasonal leagues and DFS, there is no way that they have time to do both at what we were use to before DFS evolved. Now, if you tell me no staffer is involved in providing content for both of these, then I will reevaluate my decision not to renew my subscription. I vote #2.
As someone who reads both season and daily articles, I can say that all of the new daily articles this year are being written by the "new guys".
Thanks, I'm probably just overreacting, need to separate the dislike the bombardment of all those DFS ads created, I'm more into dynasty leagues and Adam just posted in a different thread that he is working on some new stuff regarding dynasty.
I wish both the posters here and the legislators/AGs had taken as strong of a stance with the season long industry. The worst accusations against dfs is that insiders may have used information (had access to) to profit at other sites and the commercials are over the top. The worst accusations against season long is that owners of Phenoms and WCOFF diverted/stole entry fees to other expenses and weren't able to pay out guaranteed winnings.

 
Thanks, I'm probably just overreacting, need to separate the dislike the bombardment of all those DFS ads created, I'm more into dynasty leagues and Adam just posted in a different thread that he is working on some new stuff regarding dynasty.
Oh man... every offseason when things are a bit less crazy I like to take on a project or two. This last offseason, I worked on getting season-long upside projections done, (and Simon then integrated them into the Draft Dominator, which was cool), and then I worked on completely overhauling the traditional football player aging model and replacing it with something new and, I think, much more compelling. Then, as a bonus, late in the offseason I managed to get my value charts pulled together.

I really can't go into what I'm planning on for this offseason, just because I have no idea how much I'll actually be able to pull off and how much is just me being crazy. Maybe I'm biting off way more than I'll be able to chew. But if I can do even half of what I think I might be able to do... let's just say I'm really, really excited for the 2016 season for dynasty. I'm hoping to get cool stuff that I think dynasty owners will really love, simply because it's the kind of stuff as a dynasty owner that I'd love to see someone doing, and there's not really anyone doing it right now.

I totally recognize that $30 and change is a not-insignificant sum of money for someone to be dropping, especially in today's landscape when so much is available for free. I try to be really respectful of that and do everything I can to make subscribers feel like they're getting their money's worth. For my dynasty buddies especially, my goal is to make it so you never question whether what you're getting is worth $30, (or $32, or whatever it is right now). Only you can decide that for yourself, but I promise I'm going to be doing my damndest to make it an easy decision for you.

 
Adam, it's nice to see you engaging in this discussion. A staff member with good communication skills who actually reads and listens to subscribers and SP posters on their concerns. As a fellow father, I know your time is precious and you've spent a lot of it in this thread trying to answer people's concerns and questions. It's refreshing. It's too bad others within the staff aren't as engaging. You and MT are in here a lot and it's nice to see concerns reaching someone, anyone.

I felt your question on what percent of people,hold an opinion of DFS was interesting, so I started a poll...

 
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