A Case For DeAngelo Williams (1 Viewer)

[LHUCKS]

A case against DeAngelo Williams...Stewart's superior ability.

Ooof.

I think Stewart will still end up being the better back

Agreed, although his injury history is concerning.

 

[Loan Sharks]

A case against DeAngelo Williams...Stewart's superior ability.

Ooof.

I think Stewart will still end up being the better back

Dude its over. Stewart Lost.

 

[Rev]

A case against DeAngelo Williams...Stewart's superior ability.

Ooof.

I think Stewart will still end up being the better back

Dude its over. Stewart Lost.

Correct.

 

[JamesTheScot]

I think Deangelo finishes the year top 10 among running backs.

Shader's top 10 running backs currently include, in no particular order:1. DeAngelo Williams2. Chris Johnson3. 4.5.6.7.8.9.10.Yes, I'm curious who the rest are.

Ok, I'm sorry is my top ten not the generic standard top ten that you see on every internet site around? Let me see if I got this...1. LT2. ADP3. Westbrook4. GoreAm I on the right track?Every year there are huge surprises. CJ and Deangelo are this year's surprises. I would also put Mcfadden in my top ten if you're wondering.It's hilarious to me how EVERY SINGLE YEAR there is an in-stone consensus of the top ten running backs and the consensus always falls on it's face.CJ, DWill and Dmac. Save the post and see me in January. Barring injury, I'm confident in all 3.

OK. You missed on McFadden, but I have to give you props on DeAngelo and Johnson.What's your top 10 shaping up to be this season?

 

[Grahamburn]

It's really interesting to read this thread from the beginning.

I'm sure it's been covered, but there are a lot of "oops" moments in here...

 

[Instinctive]

A case against DeAngelo Williams...Stewart's superior ability.

This is quite possibly one of the greatest quote in this thread. This was an amazing bump.

 

[Biabreakable]

This thread has some good comedy.

I almost want to appologize to switz for being such a tool to him in this thread. But I think he earned it. Still he has made some really good calls sometimes and being wrong on this one is no worse than me being wrong about Barlow many years ago.

LHUCKS owns himself every time he opens his trap. I wish he would put out rankings again so we can have a head start on who to avoid.

And just want to state for the record that DeAngelo Williams is capable of breaking a few tackles.

Now please let this thread die. It has outlived its usefulness. Except for people who still have Stewart in thier top 20 RB for 2009.

ETA- I wouldn't mind seeing the DW vs Turner thread again though.

 

[gianmarco]

ETA- I wouldn't mind seeing the DW vs Turner thread again though.

That was mine Here it is

 

[shader]

I think Deangelo finishes the year top 10 among running backs.

Shader's top 10 running backs currently include, in no particular order:1. DeAngelo Williams2. Chris Johnson3. 4.5.6.7.8.9.10.Yes, I'm curious who the rest are.

Ok, I'm sorry is my top ten not the generic standard top ten that you see on every internet site around? Let me see if I got this...1. LT2. ADP3. Westbrook4. GoreAm I on the right track?Every year there are huge surprises. CJ and Deangelo are this year's surprises. I would also put Mcfadden in my top ten if you're wondering.It's hilarious to me how EVERY SINGLE YEAR there is an in-stone consensus of the top ten running backs and the consensus always falls on it's face.CJ, DWill and Dmac. Save the post and see me in January. Barring injury, I'm confident in all 3.

OK. You missed on McFadden, but I have to give you props on DeAngelo and Johnson.What's your top 10 shaping up to be this season?

LOL. Yeah, I was re-reading this thread as I remembered having CJ and Deangelo in my top ten. I could have looked like a genius until I made the bone-headed decision to put McFadden in the top ten. I do have a different way of ranking players that has always served me well, but this year I haven't even really started ranking them yet. My drafts are in late August and I'm going to spend most of June and early July just doing light studying before I figure out who I like. I love looking at guys who explode towards the end of the year. Seeing Deangelo at the end of 2007 told me that he had the ability to be a great back if given the chance. And since he was a first round pick, I figured that Fox would give him a chance, right? I mean you don't draft a guy in the first, never give him a chance and then just hand the reins over to the new rookie. So for me, Deangelo was a no-brainer. I don't know if there are any no-brainers this year, but I do like what I saw from Benson, Michael Bush and a few others towards the end of '08.

 

[switz]

When the Panthers used their top pick in April's draft to select Jonathan Stewart, it was assumed the rookie would become the team's lead back with DeAngelo Williams continuing to contribute in a complementary role. But Williams' improvement as a runner, especially on inside runs, has resulted in a role reversal.

"There were questions about his toughness and ability to handle the workload," said a Panthers' official. "He wasn't a true inside runner, and didn't finish his runs with authority... I think that he has exceeded everyone's expectations in those aspects."

While DeAngelo became a very good FF producer last season, those of us who didn't expect it weren't way off base for doubting Williams. The team had the same questions, which is why they drafted Stewart. I'm glad for the Panthers that DA matured a a runner, and I think he'll continue to do well, though I do fully expect Stewart to work himself into a bigger role.Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams. Kudos to those who expected him to have the ability to change as a runner after 4 years in the league - it doesn't happen often.

 

[Tau837]

When the Panthers used their top pick in April's draft to select Jonathan Stewart, it was assumed the rookie would become the team's lead back with DeAngelo Williams continuing to contribute in a complementary role. But Williams' improvement as a runner, especially on inside runs, has resulted in a role reversal.

"There were questions about his toughness and ability to handle the workload," said a Panthers' official. "He wasn't a true inside runner, and didn't finish his runs with authority... I think that he has exceeded everyone's expectations in those aspects."

While DeAngelo became a very good FF producer last season, those of us who didn't expect it weren't way off base for doubting Williams. The team had the same questions, which is why they drafted Stewart. I'm glad for the Panthers that DA matured a a runner, and I think he'll continue to do well, though I do fully expect Stewart to work himself into a bigger role.Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams. Kudos to those who expected him to have the ability to change as a runner after 4 years in the league - it doesn't happen often.

He has only been in the league 3 years, so he "changed" in his 3rd year, not in his 5th as is implied by your statement here. Thanks for the kudos.

 

[fourd]

When the Panthers used their top pick in April's draft to select Jonathan Stewart, it was assumed the rookie would become the team's lead back with DeAngelo Williams continuing to contribute in a complementary role. But Williams' improvement as a runner, especially on inside runs, has resulted in a role reversal.

"There were questions about his toughness and ability to handle the workload," said a Panthers' official. "He wasn't a true inside runner, and didn't finish his runs with authority... I think that he has exceeded everyone's expectations in those aspects."

While DeAngelo became a very good FF producer last season, those of us who didn't expect it weren't way off base for doubting Williams. The team had the same questions, which is why they drafted Stewart. I'm glad for the Panthers that DA matured a a runner, and I think he'll continue to do well, though I do fully expect Stewart to work himself into a bigger role.Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams. Kudos to those who expected him to have the ability to change as a runner after 4 years in the league - it doesn't happen often.

He has only been in the league 3 years, so he "changed" in his 3rd year, not in his 5th as is implied by your statement here. Thanks for the kudos.

Not to mention that he did fine with the opportunities he did have in 07. He can't control his playing time. And I'd take exception with switz's statement that Stewart will work himself into a bigger role. How about if he works himself into position to be able to practice first.

 

[switz]

When the Panthers used their top pick in April's draft to select Jonathan Stewart, it was assumed the rookie would become the team's lead back with DeAngelo Williams continuing to contribute in a complementary role. But Williams' improvement as a runner, especially on inside runs, has resulted in a role reversal.

"There were questions about his toughness and ability to handle the workload," said a Panthers' official. "He wasn't a true inside runner, and didn't finish his runs with authority... I think that he has exceeded everyone's expectations in those aspects."

While DeAngelo became a very good FF producer last season, those of us who didn't expect it weren't way off base for doubting Williams. The team had the same questions, which is why they drafted Stewart. I'm glad for the Panthers that DA matured a a runner, and I think he'll continue to do well, though I do fully expect Stewart to work himself into a bigger role.Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams. Kudos to those who expected him to have the ability to change as a runner after 4 years in the league - it doesn't happen often.

He has only been in the league 3 years, so he "changed" in his 3rd year, not in his 5th as is implied by your statement here. Thanks for the kudos.

You're right... I actually meant in his fourth year, but I was wrong on that... it was his third.Maybe there is some third year RB rule too

 

[switz]

And I'd take exception with switz's statement that Stewart will work himself into a bigger role. How about if he works himself into position to be able to practice first.

Funny thing is, if you look at all the post draft threads about the rookie RBs, I was pretty down on Stewart because I didn't think he'd be durable. But he was hurt in the offseason last year and still played all 16 games, was the leading rusher in two, despite not being the starter. He had <200 carries, and I expect him to get about 200 this year. It's not a huge increase, but I just don't see him getting any more games with only 4-7 carries, he should see at least 10 per game, plus the clean up carries like he got last year.Note: I fully expect the Panthers to do well this season, and have a lead in a lot of games.

 

[Loan Sharks]

When the Panthers used their top pick in April's draft to select Jonathan Stewart, it was assumed the rookie would become the team's lead back with DeAngelo Williams continuing to contribute in a complementary role. But Williams' improvement as a runner, especially on inside runs, has resulted in a role reversal.

"There were questions about his toughness and ability to handle the workload," said a Panthers' official. "He wasn't a true inside runner, and didn't finish his runs with authority... I think that he has exceeded everyone's expectations in those aspects."

While DeAngelo became a very good FF producer last season, those of us who didn't expect it weren't way off base for doubting Williams. The team had the same questions, which is why they drafted Stewart. I'm glad for the Panthers that DA matured a a runner, and I think he'll continue to do well, though I do fully expect Stewart to work himself into a bigger role.Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams. Kudos to those who expected him to have the ability to change as a runner after 4 years in the league - it doesn't happen often.

Well I was absolutely sure he would be able to change. The reasons, one he was in a spread wishbone running game in college and had never been taught or know a pro style running game. There was no indication that he could not succeed in the pro offense but I knew that it would take some time to learn it and the "he sucks because he didnt instantly grasp a entire new running style instantly" were so quick on the trigger to be laughable.

Two I had seen numerous interviews and Williams is a good guy, an extremely humble and hard worker. There was no doubt in my mind that he would want to and put in the time it took him to learn the pro style.

Three talent, I had watched some of his college game, Williams is the one guy I have seen that had the biggest wow factor since I watched a Larry Fitzgerald catch montage. Williams does not have good skills, he has great skills, and I don't say that lightly.

I was absolutely stunned that people were bagging and tagging a first round talented, hard working, running back who had to completely relearn his position after 1.5 seasons. Then the team drafts a bigger, fragile back when they only had LaBrandon Toefield on the roster and 99% of people proclaim Williams stoned to death body had gone completely cold.

When you say

Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams.

I am not letting you off that easy. Your expectations were wrong. You and I saw the same thing. What I saw when Williams whiffed on a block or ran right into a tackler was a young man who was learning the system, you saw a crappy running back.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but a couple of years being mocked in the Deshawn Foster Vs Williams thread, Williams Vs Turner and here will do that to you.

Oh and thanks for the Kudos

 

[Loan Sharks]

And I'd take exception with switz's statement that Stewart will work himself into a bigger role. How about if he works himself into position to be able to practice first.

Funny thing is, if you look at all the post draft threads about the rookie RBs, I was pretty down on Stewart because I didn't think he'd be durable. But he was hurt in the offseason last year and still played all 16 games, was the leading rusher in two, despite not being the starter. He had <200 carries, and I expect him to get about 200 this year. It's not a huge increase, but I just don't see him getting any more games with only 4-7 carries, he should see at least 10 per game, plus the clean up carries like he got last year.Note: I fully expect the Panthers to do well this season, and have a lead in a lot of games.

Yeah me too, I really like Stewarts talent but he is always banged up. I think he had surgery again this off season or something with his toe.

 

[switz]

When you say

Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams.

I am not letting you off that easy. Your expectations were wrong. You and I saw the same thing. What I saw when Williams whiffed on a block or ran right into a tackler was a young man who was learning the system, you saw a crappy running back.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but a couple of years being mocked in the Deshawn Foster Vs Williams thread, Williams Vs Turner and here will do that to you.

Oh and thanks for the Kudos

I didn't think you were harsh, and I'm sorry if I came across as mocking you in any of those threads at all. My intention on these boards is never to make people feel lesser, put down, or anything of the sort. If I come across strongly it's because I'm passionate about the game, and feel strongly about things. It's never meant personal.The kudos is 100% meant to all who were right on. It wasn't intended sarcastically at all.

My point about being "right" in our expectation, was that the Panthers officials expressed the same exact concerns - and they saw more of him than any of us. So to call us out for having those expectations means you also feel the Panthers brass were idiots... basically.

You had an optimistic view, and hoped he could pick up things that he so far hadn't, because you saw other things that made you like him. While I saw those same things, I didn't take the optimistic view that the necessary things would change because he hadn't shown any progress in those areas throughout college and two years in the NFL.

I didn't think Williams was crappy, rather that he wasn't going to pick up the nuances to become an every down back. There are a lot of very talented RBs who never become every down RBs. It doesn't mean they don't have talent, it means they don't get some stuff about the NFL system. For two seasons Williams didn't get protection schemes in the least... he ran around holes instead of through them, he missed rushers left and right. You do those things and you never start.

And frankly, Williams still shows weaknesses in those areas... but he has improved, which is good. I still have reservations, but if you saw my projections I expect him to still be a fantasy RB1 this season.

 

[JamesTheScot]

When the Panthers used their top pick in April's draft to select Jonathan Stewart, it was assumed the rookie would become the team's lead back with DeAngelo Williams continuing to contribute in a complementary role. But Williams' improvement as a runner, especially on inside runs, has resulted in a role reversal.

"There were questions about his toughness and ability to handle the workload," said a Panthers' official. "He wasn't a true inside runner, and didn't finish his runs with authority... I think that he has exceeded everyone's expectations in those aspects."

While DeAngelo became a very good FF producer last season, those of us who didn't expect it weren't way off base for doubting Williams. The team had the same questions, which is why they drafted Stewart. I'm glad for the Panthers that DA matured a a runner, and I think he'll continue to do well, though I do fully expect Stewart to work himself into a bigger role.Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams. Kudos to those who expected him to have the ability to change as a runner after 4 years in the league - it doesn't happen often.

Well I was absolutely sure he would be able to change. The reasons, one he was in a spread wishbone running game in college and had never been taught or know a pro style running game. There was no indication that he could not succeed in the pro offense but I knew that it would take some time to learn it and the "he sucks because he didnt instantly grasp a entire new running style instantly" were so quick on the trigger to be laughable.

Two I had seen numerous interviews and Williams is a good guy, an extremely humble and hard worker. There was no doubt in my mind that he would want to and put in the time it took him to learn the pro style.

Three talent, I had watched some of his college game, Williams is the one guy I have seen that had the biggest wow factor since I watched a Larry Fitzgerald catch montage. Williams does not have good skills, he has great skills, and I don't say that lightly.

I was absolutely stunned that people were bagging and tagging a first round talented, hard working, running back who had to completely relearn his position after 1.5 seasons. Then the team drafts a bigger, fragile back when they only had LaBrandon Toefield on the roster and 99% of people proclaim Williams stoned to death body had gone completely cold.

When you say

Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams.

I am not letting you off that easy. Your expectations were wrong. You and I saw the same thing. What I saw when Williams whiffed on a block or ran right into a tackler was a young man who was learning the system, you saw a crappy running back.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but a couple of years being mocked in the Deshawn Foster Vs Williams thread, Williams Vs Turner and here will do that to you.

Oh and thanks for the Kudos

I think some on the Panthers coaching staff were obviously wrong as well. And I'd offer the following analysis of the coach's quote about DW's development...I think it's very possible that certain people in the Panthers organization are feeling a little foolish for not getting Williams more involved during his first two years. When a guy absolutely explodes in his third year when given the chance but wasn't getting more action in his first two years (while Foster was pounding the league with his 3.74 yards per carry over that two years), some people might feel some pressure to "explain themselves".

Hence, an explanation that the 2008 DW wasn't the same DW they had sitting behind Foster in 2006 and 2007. It's so much nicer to say the player developed instead of having to admit you were just plain wrong about him.

Think about it.

Why would there be "questions about his toughness and ability to handle the workload"? That's a very passive way of addressing the misgivings without naming who had them.

Was it because he was given the opportunity to carry the workload in the NFL and didn't do it? No. And all he did was do well with what carries he got.

Was it because he couldn't carry the workload in college? No, he was a beast in college.

Or was it because they assumed he couldn't before they ever gave him the chance? Bingo.

I can buy that his blocking wasn't great, it often isn't for a rookie and has to be developed. Yet other teams manage to get a talented rookie involved despite shortcomings in pass protection. So I think there's a little bit of embarrasment over it and some people on Fox's staff (perhaps Fox included) who don't like hearing "I told you so". And they definitely don't want people wondering how things might have been different, in 2007 especially, if DW had been more involved instead of playing second fiddle to Foster.

 

[Tau837]

When the Panthers used their top pick in April's draft to select Jonathan Stewart, it was assumed the rookie would become the team's lead back with DeAngelo Williams continuing to contribute in a complementary role. But Williams' improvement as a runner, especially on inside runs, has resulted in a role reversal.

"There were questions about his toughness and ability to handle the workload," said a Panthers' official. "He wasn't a true inside runner, and didn't finish his runs with authority... I think that he has exceeded everyone's expectations in those aspects."

While DeAngelo became a very good FF producer last season, those of us who didn't expect it weren't way off base for doubting Williams. The team had the same questions, which is why they drafted Stewart. I'm glad for the Panthers that DA matured a a runner, and I think he'll continue to do well, though I do fully expect Stewart to work himself into a bigger role.Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams. Kudos to those who expected him to have the ability to change as a runner after 4 years in the league - it doesn't happen often.

Well I was absolutely sure he would be able to change. The reasons, one he was in a spread wishbone running game in college and had never been taught or know a pro style running game. There was no indication that he could not succeed in the pro offense but I knew that it would take some time to learn it and the "he sucks because he didnt instantly grasp a entire new running style instantly" were so quick on the trigger to be laughable.

Two I had seen numerous interviews and Williams is a good guy, an extremely humble and hard worker. There was no doubt in my mind that he would want to and put in the time it took him to learn the pro style.

Three talent, I had watched some of his college game, Williams is the one guy I have seen that had the biggest wow factor since I watched a Larry Fitzgerald catch montage. Williams does not have good skills, he has great skills, and I don't say that lightly.

I was absolutely stunned that people were bagging and tagging a first round talented, hard working, running back who had to completely relearn his position after 1.5 seasons. Then the team drafts a bigger, fragile back when they only had LaBrandon Toefield on the roster and 99% of people proclaim Williams stoned to death body had gone completely cold.

When you say

Those of us that expected DA to remain a COP were wrong, no doubt. But the reality is, we were right in our expectations based on having watched Williams.

I am not letting you off that easy. Your expectations were wrong. You and I saw the same thing. What I saw when Williams whiffed on a block or ran right into a tackler was a young man who was learning the system, you saw a crappy running back.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but a couple of years being mocked in the Deshawn Foster Vs Williams thread, Williams Vs Turner and here will do that to you.

Oh and thanks for the Kudos

I think some on the Panthers coaching staff were obviously wrong as well. And I'd offer the following analysis of the coach's quote about DW's development...I think it's very possible that certain people in the Panthers organization are feeling a little foolish for not getting Williams more involved during his first two years. When a guy absolutely explodes in his third year when given the chance but wasn't getting more action in his first two years (while Foster was pounding the league with his 3.74 yards per carry over that two years), some people might feel some pressure to "explain themselves".

Hence, an explanation that the 2008 DW wasn't the same DW they had sitting behind Foster in 2006 and 2007. It's so much nicer to say the player developed instead of having to admit you were just plain wrong about him.

Think about it.

Why would there be "questions about his toughness and ability to handle the workload"? That's a very passive way of addressing the misgivings without naming who had them.

Was it because he was given the opportunity to carry the workload in the NFL and didn't do it? No. And all he did was do well with what carries he got.

Was it because he couldn't carry the workload in college? No, he was a beast in college.

Or was it because they assumed he couldn't before they ever gave him the chance? Bingo.

I can buy that his blocking wasn't great, it often isn't for a rookie and has to be developed. Yet other teams manage to get a talented rookie involved despite shortcomings in pass protection. So I think there's a little bit of embarrasment over it and some people on Fox's staff (perhaps Fox included) who don't like hearing "I told you so". And they definitely don't want people wondering how things might have been different, in 2007 especially, if DW had been more involved instead of playing second fiddle to Foster.

Fox and his coaches definitely don't look good in retrospect for how they handled Williams prior to last season.

 

[Loan Sharks]

Could be a little of everything.

If the coaches were bagging on him because he wasn't picking up the system fast enough and then they delayed his development. Then maybe they have egg on their face. I thought that the totally different way he was taught to play in college would have been taken into account and they would have been more patient. Maybe the coaches bought into the running backs are a easy transition to the nfl hype. I think RBs trasition easier but the differences between the college and pro game can be difficult and lengthy even for running backs and probably some guy on the staff panicked.

 

[Loan Sharks]

I didn't think you were harsh, and I'm sorry if I came across as mocking you in any of those threads at all. My intention on these boards is never to make people feel lesser, put down, or anything of the sort. If I come across strongly it's because I'm passionate about the game, and feel strongly about things. It's never meant personal.The kudos is 100% meant to all who were right on. It wasn't intended sarcastically at all.

Naw not you specifically, but there are a lot of fishing trips, nonsense and overstatements when there is a hot topic and it can drive you crazy after a while if you are in the minority.

 

[Tau837]

doesn't break tackles

Can't run inside either...

 

[Instinctive]

doesn't break tackles

Can't run inside either...

This looks like an awesome quote if you recently saw the Miami-Carolina deal

 

[Eminence]

Hrm. So have we got a verdict on this yet? ...and where do we draft him this upcoming season?