"A Contrarian View of Bill Belichick" (1 Viewer)

[ivnabru]

My take on the article was not that the guy was really bashing Belichick or the Patriots but commenting that the

Media does not seem to think he/they can do anything wrong.

I have no idea how the Media in New England portrays Belichick, but based on ESPN's coverage of the Patriots since the draft, I would have to agree with him. It seems like everything New England does is prefaced by "the rich get richer" or "they have done it again". I think ESPN has lost some objectivity when it comes to covering the Patriots (I know that never happens at ESPN).

Yah it seems that several have glossed over that point. Agree with the author on 2 points. One, Seymour trade definitely would've been evaluated differently if the teams were reversed. Two, the importance of lucking into Brady can't be emphasized enough. That people actually believe he was going to start if Bledsoe hadn't gotten hurt sort of proves the point he's making. What do you expect the coach to say after Brady won 2 more SB's and Bledsoe's career went down the toilet: "We were committed to Drew the whole way and never thought there was a chance in hell this 6th rounder would be a star"?

Otherwise I mean, whatever. He's the best coach in the league. I don't care that he cut guys he traded for - better to admit your mistake than hang on to someone because you traded for him. I don't remember anyone particularly caring about Greg Lewis being traded. Plus if you want to pick on how lame espn is you can write a column every day for a year and not run out of topics.

Didn't Bledsoe go to the probowl with your Bills? I remember him being a pretty good QB for a couple years after he left the Pats.On the Seymour trade, I think both teams made a nice move. DEs are really highly valued (probably too high) by NFL teams right now so to get one of Seymour's caliber for a pick 2 years from now Oakland made a nice enough move. Even if he's older and has had injury problems for a while. On the other side the Pats weren't going to keep Seymour after this year so getting a possible high 1st rounder out of him while they can is a nice value too. Sure Seymour is a great player and it hurts the Pats in the short term to play without him, but obviously New England thought they could survive without him. And since they've been a top 10 scoring Defense 5 of the last 6 years I'm fine giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

If by a couple seasons you mean the first half of his first season, sure. Sucked in the 2nd half of 2002, and in 2003 the offense failed to score a single TD in 7 games.

To this day I'm baffled that Parcells wanted any part of him after that.

 

[theglorydays]

I think he's pointing out the different standard the Pats are judged by, which in today's NFL, is frankly amazing.

If every other franchise were judged by the same standards as the Pats, they'd all be considered laughing stocks, except for maybe the Steelers.

The Patriots were one of the worst organizations in the leage up until Kraft bought them. They had, what, 6 playoff appearances in 34 years and one superbowl appearance. From what i read, the stadium was empty and the Patriots were on the verge of moving.

But according to Patriots fans, they are the class of the nfl, the gold standard for organizations and superior to you because they root for the patriots...

 

[SALEEN786]

The most interesting thing about this article is that it makes Sparano look a bit like a dolt.

He's excited he doesn't have to face Seymour in '09? Fine. But everyone knew there was ZERO CHANCE of the Patriots giving Seymour a new contract. I have to assume Sparano knew this too... which tells me:

a) he manages year-to-year with no thought beyond the current season

or

b) he has no expectation to be coaching against the Patriots beyond this year

To be fair, as great a job as Sparano did last year, most coaches in the league really have no choice but to play it year-by-year. Three or four years from now, how many of today's coaches can you say will almost definitely still be coaching their current teams? I'd say Belichick, Tomlin, Fisher, Coughlin... and maybe Sean Payton? That's just off the top of my head, but I can't imagine that I forgot more than 2 or 3 other coaches, at most.

Bill Polian the very BEST player personnel guy in the entire NFL, the one who drafted, and brought in the free agents for the Patriot's, the man behind the whole Super Bowl show in New England, was ..HIRED in the off season by THE KANSAS CITY CHIEFS. Yea it will be "interesting" how Beli-cheat recovers, over the next several years losing ..the one who put him on the throne..we will see..and yea GO CHIEFS!!..lolAbout the only guys even up for consideration for such a thing would be Andy Reid, John Fox and maybe Lovie Smith. But, like Payton, they're probably more like borderline guys so I agree with you.

 

[Caveman_Nick]

The Patriots were one of the worst organizations in the leage up until Kraft bought them. They had, what, 6 playoff appearances in 34 years and one superbowl appearance. From what i read, the stadium was empty and the Patriots were on the verge of moving.But according to Patriots fans, they are the class of the nfl, the gold standard for organizations and superior to you because they root for the patriots...

really living up to your username with this outlook.Kraft has owned the team for 15 years, and the organization has been amongst the most successful in the NFL in those 15 years. 5 SB appearances, 3 championships, and 3 or four seasons below .500. Maybe 9-10 playoff appearances?Say what you want, but it's really tough to deny the success. Most of us Pats fans are really just grateful for that. But then, we also pay a ton of money for tickets, $50 to park for regular season games, and pay up to $10 for beer at the stadium...so we had better get a winning team to go see

 

[Adebisi]

But according to Patriots fans, they are the class of the nfl, the gold standard for organizations and superior to you because they root for the patriots...

 

[dparker713]

It is an interesting article. Some good points there, honestly. None that could refute a reply of "scoreboard," but interesting information while most of the league tries to catch up to the Patriots. (Not anything resembling a Pats fan, but really: Biting a dynasty's ankles just seems silly.)

The article is more an indictment of the media than it is the Patriots.How exactly are the Patriots either a dynasty or ahead of the entire league? They havent won a championship since 2004, and they're hardly consensus best team in the league or even their conference.

2010 Super Bowl XLIV Odds to Win (courtesy of thespread.com)NFL TEAM FUTURE ODDS TO WIN SUPER BOWL XLIVIndianapolis Colts 12/1New England Patriots 7/2New York Giants 12/1Pittsburgh Steelers 19/2San Diego Chargers 9/1Odds as of: 9/7/09Just throwing this out there, for what it's worth.

dparker, say hello to consensus.

A) Preseason SB odds are fairly worthless for determining the best team.B) Someone needs to look up the meaning of consensus.

 

[nxmehta]

Hmmm, I wonder why the Patriots and Bill Belichick are held by the public and the media to a different standard than other teams....

2001: 11-5 Superbowl2002: 9-72003: 14-2 Superbowl2004: 14-2 Superbowl2005: 10-62006: 12-42007: 16-02008: 11-5There's a reason that Belichick's moves are criticized less and lauded more than others'- it's because the dude is a #######ed winner and has earned that respect. Someone needs to point this out to the author? This isn't 1994 anymore?It's amazing to me that so many people in here think that this article pointed out so many unexpected things that somehow Pats fans are blind to. I'm neither a Pats hater or lover, and it seems to me that it's the author that's missing the point. People coddle the Patriots in the media because they spend 90% of the time shoving their foot up everyone else's ###, to the point where we're all just expecting it to keep happening, because it does.

 

[DropKick]

Hmmm, I wonder why the Patriots and Bill Belichick are held by the public and the media to a different standard than other teams....

2001: 11-5 Superbowl2002: 9-72003: 14-2 Superbowl2004: 14-2 Superbowl2005: 10-62006: 12-42007: 16-02008: 11-5There's a reason that Belichick's moves are criticized less and lauded more than others'- it's because the dude is a #######ed winner and has earned that respect. Someone needs to point this out to the author? This isn't 1994 anymore?It's amazing to me that so many people in here think that this article pointed out so many unexpected things that somehow Pats fans are blind to. I'm neither a Pats hater or lover, and it seems to me that it's the author that's missing the point. People coddle the Patriots in the media because they spend 90% of the time shoving their foot up everyone else's ###, to the point where we're all just expecting it to keep happening, because it does.

Anyone in the NFL with a track record of success gets some degree of ball washing from the media. Brett Favre ring a bell? It is what it is. An "I Hate BB" article just comes off as whiny. The author obviously has an axe to grind. In fact, the article hardly seems topical after week one of the 09 season.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

The Patriots were one of the worst organizations in the leage up until Kraft bought them. They had, what, 6 playoff appearances in 34 years and one superbowl appearance. From what i read, the stadium was empty and the Patriots were on the verge of moving.But according to Patriots fans, they are the class of the nfl, the gold standard for organizations and superior to you because they root for the patriots...

Serenity now.The Patriots WERE one of the worst organizations in the league up until Kraft bought them. THATS WHY Patriots fans, or at least the ones who have watched them since the early 70s, like to talk ####. Imagine what Lions fans will be like if they win 3 supbowls in the 2020s.Patriots fans don't go around claiming their team is the class of the NFL, but many media types do. Pats fans do spend a lot of time arguing with people who label New England as a CLASSLESS organization. So you've got it completely wrong.There are many gold standards out there. Pittsburgh, Indy, Giants, etc. New England is in that group. Dont like that? Too bad.Please link me to pats fans claiming to be superior because they root for the patriots.The only claimed superiority in play here is claimed superiority over SOME who APPARENTLY dont know wtf they are talking about.Peace out.

 

[greenline]

The Patriots were one of the worst organizations in the leage up until Kraft bought them. They had, what, 6 playoff appearances in 34 years and one superbowl appearance. From what i read, the stadium was empty and the Patriots were on the verge of moving.But according to Patriots fans, they are the class of the nfl, the gold standard for organizations and superior to you because they root for the patriots...

Serenity now.The Patriots WERE one of the worst organizations in the league up until Kraft bought them. THATS WHY Patriots fans, or at least the ones who have watched them since the early 70s, like to talk ####. Imagine what Lions fans will be like if they win 3 supbowls in the 2020s.Patriots fans don't go around claiming their team is the class of the NFL, but many media types do. Pats fans do spend a lot of time arguing with people who label New England as a CLASSLESS organization. So you've got it completely wrong.There are many gold standards out there. Pittsburgh, Indy, Giants, etc. New England is in that group. Dont like that? Too bad.Please link me to pats fans claiming to be superior because they root for the patriots.The only claimed superiority in play here is claimed superiority over SOME who APPARENTLY dont know wtf they are talking about.Peace out.

Owned!

 

[Kit Fisto]

Owned!

Times two.

 

[Kit Fisto]

It's been five years since they won anything...... Shouldn't we be talking about the Steelers?

Yeah, you should be. Why aren't you?

 

[-baller]

The Patriots were one of the worst organizations in the leage up until Kraft bought them. They had, what, 6 playoff appearances in 34 years and one superbowl appearance. From what i read, the stadium was empty and the Patriots were on the verge of moving.But according to Patriots fans, they are the class of the nfl, the gold standard for organizations and superior to you because they root for the patriots...

Serenity now.The Patriots WERE one of the worst organizations in the league up until Kraft bought them. THATS WHY Patriots fans, or at least the ones who have watched them since the early 70s, like to talk ####. Imagine what Lions fans will be like if they win 3 supbowls in the 2020s.Patriots fans don't go around claiming their team is the class of the NFL, but many media types do. Pats fans do spend a lot of time arguing with people who label New England as a CLASSLESS organization. So you've got it completely wrong.There are many gold standards out there. Pittsburgh, Indy, Giants, etc. New England is in that group. Dont like that? Too bad.Please link me to pats fans claiming to be superior because they root for the patriots.The only claimed superiority in play here is claimed superiority over SOME who APPARENTLY dont know wtf they are talking about.Peace out.

Owned!

usually when a guy is constantly worried about everybody else 'feeling superior' to him, that's more indicative of the guy than everybody else.

 

[-baller]

Bill Polian the very BEST player personnel guy in the entire NFL, the one who drafted, and brought in the free agents for the Patriot's, the man behind the whole Super Bowl show in New England, was ..HIRED in the off season by THE KANSAS CITY CHIEFS. Yea it will be "interesting" how Beli-cheat recovers, over the next several years losing ..the one who put him on the throne..we will see..and yea GO CHIEFS!!..lol

About the only guys even up for consideration for such a thing would be Andy Reid, John Fox and maybe Lovie Smith. But, like Payton, they're probably more like borderline guys so I agree with you.

uh....what?

 

[Ghost Rider]

I mean what's Bill Belichick ever accomplished without Brady....except coach his team to an 11-5 record with a QB that hadn't started a regular season game since Highschool.

FYI, by going 10-5 last year in games not started by Brady, Belichick improved his coaching record in games not started by Tom Brady to 51-62. Ultimately, while going 10-5 with Cassel and against a relatively easy schedule was nice, his overall record sans Brady is still well below .500.

 

[Adebisi]

Bill Polian the very BEST player personnel guy in the entire NFL, the one who drafted, and brought in the free agents for the Patriot's, the man behind the whole Super Bowl show in New England, was ..HIRED in the off season by THE KANSAS CITY CHIEFS. Yea it will be "interesting" how Beli-cheat recovers, over the next several years losing ..the one who put him on the throne..we will see..and yea GO CHIEFS!!..lol

About the only guys even up for consideration for such a thing would be Andy Reid, John Fox and maybe Lovie Smith. But, like Payton, they're probably more like borderline guys so I agree with you.

uh....what?

This guy is clearly confused about a number of things.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I mean what's Bill Belichick ever accomplished without Brady....except coach his team to an 11-5 record with a QB that hadn't started a regular season game since Highschool.

FYI, by going 10-5 last year in games not started by Brady, Belichick improved his coaching record in games not started by Tom Brady to 51-62. Ultimately, while going 10-5 with Cassel and against a relatively easy schedule was nice, his overall record sans Brady is still well below .500.

coaching records are funny. liking adding division Z wins to bobby bowdon's win total when comparing him to paterno. or glossing over BB's two superbowl rings with the giants. people include and exclude what they want to make their points. belichick's primary job in cleveland was to deconstruct and reconstruct a team where locker room cancers had taken over (Kozar et al). at that point in his career, he was ill-equipped to deal with the media and the fan base, and ownership let him down. live and learn.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Pretty pathetic... but I guess I should expect that from a Pats fan...

Your silly posts and constant peeing on Brady and the Pats is quite tiresome (we get it); I apologize if u r offended by the well earned, yet good natured ribbing you so rightly deserve.

:X Get a little bit thicker skin.... I posted like twice in this whole thread, get over yourself

PS. we are still waiting for the answer to the question your repeated comments scream out for; explain in some rational form, exactly what the difference is between Indy's system and NE's system? Why is it that (according to you) virtually anyone can come in off the street and run NE's offense, but those same people couldn't possibly do likewise in Indy? Now, I know you don't have the answer, but I am hoping you will dig yourself a hole by making one ridiculous statement after another and then go away; you know, like you did last time

Bump whatever htread you're referring to... I didn't go away form anything. I have a life, and if it wasn't on the first page, I probably missed your silly reply. And if it was on the front page, your silly reply was probably that... too silly to respond to.I'll give you tihs... when Manning has missed time during the regular season, how has his backup played. And when Brady has missed time during the regular season, how has his backup played.

Last I checked, Cassel was able to parlay his performance in the NE system into a pretty big FA deal. Manning's backups have never done anything.

1. I wasn't talking about just this thread, I was referring to many threads and posts over many months and years. I've seen many of your non NE posts and you are mostly rational with some idea of what you are talking about. However, your disdain for NE and Brady leads you to say some of the most ridiculous things. Manning hasn't missed significant time and there really isn't anything on which you can make a valid comparison. My position is that yes, of course NE has a terrific system with some terrific players; so does Indy and every other team in the nfl (to varying degrees).

What is the difference between Indy's system and NE's? Just give us some scrap of evidence to support your claim that QB'ing in Indy is somehow more difficult than QB'ing in NE? Why are you convinced it is harder?

 

[Bills_Fan11]

I mean what's Bill Belichick ever accomplished without Brady....except coach his team to an 11-5 record with a QB that hadn't started a regular season game since Highschool.

FYI, by going 10-5 last year in games not started by Brady, Belichick improved his coaching record in games not started by Tom Brady to 51-62. Ultimately, while going 10-5 with Cassel and against a relatively easy schedule was nice, his overall record sans Brady is still well below .500.

coaching records are funny. liking adding division Z wins to bobby bowdon's win total when comparing him to paterno. or glossing over BB's two superbowl rings with the giants. people include and exclude what they want to make their points. belichick's primary job in cleveland was to deconstruct and reconstruct a team where locker room cancers had taken over (Kozar et al). at that point in his career, he was ill-equipped to deal with the media and the fan base, and ownership let him down. live and learn.

The whole Cleveland thing is probably the worst thing that could've happened for other franchises. There's a zillion Juarons, Turners, and Kotites for every Bellichick but everyone convinces themselves that their retread is going to be the next BB. :X

 

[dparker713]

I mean what's Bill Belichick ever accomplished without Brady....except coach his team to an 11-5 record with a QB that hadn't started a regular season game since Highschool.

FYI, by going 10-5 last year in games not started by Brady, Belichick improved his coaching record in games not started by Tom Brady to 51-62. Ultimately, while going 10-5 with Cassel and against a relatively easy schedule was nice, his overall record sans Brady is still well below .500.

coaching records are funny. liking adding division Z wins to bobby bowdon's win total when comparing him to paterno. or glossing over BB's two superbowl rings with the giants. people include and exclude what they want to make their points. belichick's primary job in cleveland was to deconstruct and reconstruct a team where locker room cancers had taken over (Kozar et al). at that point in his career, he was ill-equipped to deal with the media and the fan base, and ownership let him down. live and learn.

Why on earth would you mention the superbowl rings Belichick won with the Giants? Are you somehow under the delusion that Parcells was not in total control of those teams? You know, Belichick hasnt won a SB without Charlie Weiss as OC.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I mean what's Bill Belichick ever accomplished without Brady....except coach his team to an 11-5 record with a QB that hadn't started a regular season game since Highschool.

FYI, by going 10-5 last year in games not started by Brady, Belichick improved his coaching record in games not started by Tom Brady to 51-62. Ultimately, while going 10-5 with Cassel and against a relatively easy schedule was nice, his overall record sans Brady is still well below .500.

coaching records are funny. liking adding division Z wins to bobby bowdon's win total when comparing him to paterno. or glossing over BB's two superbowl rings with the giants. people include and exclude what they want to make their points. belichick's primary job in cleveland was to deconstruct and reconstruct a team where locker room cancers had taken over (Kozar et al). at that point in his career, he was ill-equipped to deal with the media and the fan base, and ownership let him down. live and learn.

Why on earth would you mention the superbowl rings Belichick won with the Giants? Are you somehow under the delusion that Parcells was not in total control of those teams? You know, Belichick hasnt won a SB without Charlie Weiss as OC.

Parcells is a brilliant GM type. He hires great guys to be his X's and O's guys.

 

[-baller]

is this really a whole thread trolling about how 'belichick sux'?



ahhh...the 'shark' pool strikes again.

 

[dparker713]

I mean what's Bill Belichick ever accomplished without Brady....except coach his team to an 11-5 record with a QB that hadn't started a regular season game since Highschool.

FYI, by going 10-5 last year in games not started by Brady, Belichick improved his coaching record in games not started by Tom Brady to 51-62. Ultimately, while going 10-5 with Cassel and against a relatively easy schedule was nice, his overall record sans Brady is still well below .500.

coaching records are funny. liking adding division Z wins to bobby bowdon's win total when comparing him to paterno. or glossing over BB's two superbowl rings with the giants. people include and exclude what they want to make their points. belichick's primary job in cleveland was to deconstruct and reconstruct a team where locker room cancers had taken over (Kozar et al). at that point in his career, he was ill-equipped to deal with the media and the fan base, and ownership let him down. live and learn.

Why on earth would you mention the superbowl rings Belichick won with the Giants? Are you somehow under the delusion that Parcells was not in total control of those teams? You know, Belichick hasnt won a SB without Charlie Weiss as OC.

Parcells is a brilliant GM type. He hires great guys to be his X's and O's guys.

Talk about drinking the BB Kool-Aid

 

[Bills_Fan11]

When you list HC's who have won championships without ___ whether it be an assistant or a QB, you realize that list is very very short, if not entirely empty. It happens to be why I think the world of Joe Gibbs (3 different QB's) but not having Weiss on the sidelines wasn't the reason they lost to the Colts in a shootout.

 

[Raider Nation]

The Patriots were one of the worst organizations in the leage up until Kraft bought them. They had, what, 6 playoff appearances in 34 years and one superbowl appearance. From what i read, the stadium was empty and the Patriots were on the verge of moving.

But according to Patriots fans, they are the class of the nfl, the gold standard for organizations and superior to you because they root for the patriots...

The Patriots WERE one of the worst organizations in the league up until Kraft bought them. THATS WHY Patriots fans, or at least the ones who have watched them since the early 70s, like to talk ####. Imagine what Lions fans will be like if they win 3 supbowls in the 2020s.

Here is my main problem with most (yes, MOST) Patriots fans.As I've written in other threads, I have lived in New England my entire life. Not Massachusetts though, so I never felt a "duty" to be a Pats fan. As a kid, I gravitated towards the Raiders. Liked their toughness, liked their go-for-the-throat mentality, liked their uniforms, liked everything about them. But anyway, in the early 90's I worked for a local radio station and we were the flagship station of the Patriots. So I had sideline passes, locker room passes, the whole nine yards. This was during the Rod Rust/**** MacPherson era error, and New England fielded some AWFUL teams.

I saw with my own eyes that the stadium was half-empty. Yet every Pats fan you run into these days insist that THEY are the one who was in the stands that frigid December afternoon rooting for their 1-13 New England Patriots. The math just doesn't add up. To the people who actually stuck with the team during the lean years... KUDOS! I salute you. I am doing the same thing as we speak with my Raiders. But it kills me when you can't walk three feet these days without bumping into a "hardcore Pats fan" who has been with the team through thick and thin. Give me a break. Back in the day, you could drive around New England for six months without seeing a Patriots hat, t-shirt, license plate frame, etc.

Edited for spelling.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

The Patriots were one of the worst organizations in the leage up until Kraft bought them. They had, what, 6 playoff appearances in 34 years and one superbowl appearance. From what i read, the stadium was empty and the Patriots were on the verge of moving.

But according to Patriots fans, they are the class of the nfl, the gold standard for organizations and superior to you because they root for the patriots...

The Patriots WERE one of the worst organizations in the league up until Kraft bought them. THATS WHY Patriots fans, or at least the ones who have watched them since the early 70s, like to talk ####. Imagine what Lions fans will be like if they win 3 supbowls in the 2020s.

Here is my main problem with most (yes, MOST) Patriots fans.As I've written in other threads, I have lived in New England my entire life. Not Massachusetts though, so I never felt a "duty" to be a Pats fan. As a kid, I gravitated towards the Raiders. Liked their toughness, liked their go-for-the-throat mentality, liked their uniforms, liked everything about them.

Translation = Since NE was losing you decided to be a front runner and glom on to a team that was winning. How courageous and noble of you, we are all very proud.

But anyway, in the early 90]era error, and New England fielded some AWFUL teams.

I saw with my own eyes that the stadium was half-empty. Yet every Pats fan you run into these days insist that THEY are the one who was in the stands that frigid December afternoon rooting for their 1-13 New England Patriots. The math just doesn't add up. To the people who actually stuck with the team during the lean years... KUDOS! I salute you. I am doing the same thing as we speak with my Raiders. But it kills me when you can't walk three feet these days without bumping into a "hardcore Pats fan" who has been with the team through thick and thin. Give me a break. Back in the day, you could drive around New England for six months without seeing a Patriots hat, t-shirt, license plate frame, etc.

The End.

Translation2 = Now the team you root for is run by a fool and become one of the worst organizations in sports and you are jealous and bitter that NE has enjoyed so much success in recent years. Got it

 

[-baller]

burn.

 

[Ghost Rider]

NE_REVIVAL, that was pretty weak. Instead of taking shots at the Raiders, why not address his point, which was a good one? Even if he did bandwagon jump on the Raiders (which I have no idea if that is true), that still doesn't take away from how many peeps jumped on the bandwagon the minute the Patriots got really good.

 

[Darth Cheney]

It's been five years since they won anything...... Shouldn't we be talking about the Steelers?

Yeah, you should be. Why aren't you?

Because everyone wants to talk about a team that hasn't won the SP in five years.

 

[Raider Nation]

The Patriots were one of the worst organizations in the leage up until Kraft bought them. They had, what, 6 playoff appearances in 34 years and one superbowl appearance. From what i read, the stadium was empty and the Patriots were on the verge of moving.

But according to Patriots fans, they are the class of the nfl, the gold standard for organizations and superior to you because they root for the patriots...

The Patriots WERE one of the worst organizations in the league up until Kraft bought them. THATS WHY Patriots fans, or at least the ones who have watched them since the early 70s, like to talk ####. Imagine what Lions fans will be like if they win 3 supbowls in the 2020s.

Here is my main problem with most (yes, MOST) Patriots fans.As I've written in other threads, I have lived in New England my entire life. Not Massachusetts though, so I never felt a "duty" to be a Pats fan. As a kid, I gravitated towards the Raiders. Liked their toughness, liked their go-for-the-throat mentality, liked their uniforms, liked everything about them.

Translation = Since NE was losing you decided to be a front runner and glom on to a team that was winning. How courageous and noble of you, we are all very proud.

I've been a Raider fan since before they won their first Super Bowl, but don't let that get in the way of deflecting the truth.Sorry I hurt your feelings.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

NE_REVIVAL, that was pretty weak. Instead of taking shots at the Raiders, why not address his point, which was a good one?

What exactly was his point? He posts some lame ### article criticizing BB and then comically says "My take on the article. The man knows how to express a thought; that's for sure. However, it's difficult to pick apart a coach who has three rings."So is his point = Yes, it is difficult to pick apart a coach who has 3 SB rings but he and the moron who wrote the article will try to go ahead and do just that.

Or,

Is his point = That when he was young and the Patriots were losing he jumped on the Raiders bad wagon and he doesn't remember seeing a lot of Pats fans. It is comical that he criticizes Pats fans for being front runners when it appears he is likely one himself (hmmm, I wonder how old he is?).

Sure there are many who jumped on the Patriots bandwagon after they started winning (just like he did w the raiders), just like has happened with almost all of the successful teams. Big deal? So what? His team sux right now and he wants to make himself feel better by trashing pats fans. No problemo, but he ought to look in the mirror.

 

[Raider Nation]

NE_REVIVAL, that was pretty weak. Instead of taking shots at the Raiders, why not address his point, which was a good one?

What exactly was his point? He posts some lame ### article attacking BB and then comically says "My take on the article. The man knows how to express a thought; that's for sure. However, it's difficult to pick apart a coach who has three rings."So is his point = Yes, it is difficult to pick apart a coach who has 3 SB rings but he and the moron who wrote the article will try to go ahead and do just that.

Or,

Is his point = That when he was young and the Patriots were losing he jumped on the Raiders bad wagon and he doesn't remember seeing a lot of Pats fans. It is comical that he criticizes Pats fans for being front runners when it appears he is likely one himself (hmmm, I wonder how old he is?).

Sure there are many who jumped on the Patriots bandwagon after they started winning (just like he did w the raiders), just like has happened with almost all of the successful teams. Big deal? So what? His team sux right now and he wants to make himself feel better by trashing pats fans. No problemo, but he ought to look in the mirror.

Bitter... table for 1.

I'll say it again since you don't read too well. I've been a fan of the Raiders since '73. Their first Super Bowl title was in '76.

Now call me a "bandwagoner" again in an attempt to deflect the fact that is clearly what YOU are. Otherwise, you would have seen yourself in the comment where I gave kudos to the "true" Pats fans who have been with the team through the bad times.

And I'll wait while you point out where *I* picked apart Belichick, as you contend.

 

[-baller]

I'll say it again since you don't read too well. I've been a fan of the Raiders since '73. Their first Super Bowl title was in '76.Now call me a "bandwagoner" again

1967 - 74raiders - 84 - 21 - 7your home team - 34 - 77 - 1funny how success draws fans.let us know when you discover electricity.

 

[DudeWheresMyRB]

Ahem. Don't really care why you do or do not like the Patriots.

Article still sucks based on faulty premise. Nothing to see here.

 

[DonFue]

Something is wrong with the media because we've all stopped talking about the fact they cheated to win at least two of the three super bowls. They haven't won one since they had to stop cheating. If someone can get Charlie Weiss on the record saying they didn't cheat, I'll admit I'm wrong. That WILL NOT happen. You can learn a lot from a truly honest man's silence (despite the question being asked). I feel bad for Brady b/c he's the best in 25 years.

 

[Raider Nation]

Ahem. Don't really care why you do or do not like the Patriots.

Article still sucks based on faulty premise. Nothing to see here.

See you on page 4!

 

[Clifton]

I follow the 49ers closely but I have no problem admitting that NE is the model franchise. They always seem to be in contention

 

[Raider Nation]

I follow the 49ers closely but I have no problem admitting that NE is the model franchise. They always seem to be in contention

Bring back Finless. This alias is a cheap imitation.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

The Patriots were one of the worst organizations in the leage up until Kraft bought them. They had, what, 6 playoff appearances in 34 years and one superbowl appearance. From what i read, the stadium was empty and the Patriots were on the verge of moving.

But according to Patriots fans, they are the class of the nfl, the gold standard for organizations and superior to you because they root for the patriots...

The Patriots WERE one of the worst organizations in the league up until Kraft bought them. THATS WHY Patriots fans, or at least the ones who have watched them since the early 70s, like to talk ####. Imagine what Lions fans will be like if they win 3 supbowls in the 2020s.

Here is my main problem with most (yes, MOST) Patriots fans.As I've written in other threads, I have lived in New England my entire life. Not Massachusetts though, so I never felt a "duty" to be a Pats fan. As a kid, I gravitated towards the Raiders. Liked their toughness, liked their go-for-the-throat mentality, liked their uniforms, liked everything about them. But anyway, in the early 90's I worked for a local radio station and we were the flagship station of the Patriots. So I had sideline passes, locker room passes, the whole nine yards. This was during the Rod Rust/**** MacPherson era error, and New England fielded some AWFUL teams.

I saw with my own eyes that the stadium was half-empty. Yet every Pats fan you run into these days insist that THEY are the one who was in the stands that frigid December afternoon rooting for their 1-13 New England Patriots. The math just doesn't add up. To the people who actually stuck with the team during the lean years... KUDOS! I salute you. I am doing the same thing as we speak with my Raiders. But it kills me when you can't walk three feet these days without bumping into a "hardcore Pats fan" who has been with the team through thick and thin. Give me a break. Back in the day, you could drive around New England for six months without seeing a Patriots hat, t-shirt, license plate frame, etc.

The End.

Definitely lots of truth in that. As a Syracuse guy I was pulling for McPherson when he was hired. When I mention his name to most Pats fan they have no clue who the heck he is.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Bitter... table for 1.

I'll say it again since you don't read too well. I've been a fan of the Raiders since '73. Their first Super Bowl title was in '76.

Ummm ya, about that; in 72 the raiders won 10 games and their 5th division title in the previous 6 years. NE on the other hand won just 3 games and hadn't won anything in the previous 8 years.So you jump on the raiders bandwagon and now you want to wag your finger at pats fans who did just what you did? You are a major league hypocrite.

Now call me a "bandwagoner" again in an attempt to deflect the fact that is clearly what YOU are.

I am calling em like I see em, you live in NE and yet somehow when you were very young you just happened to not follow NE who was losing at the time and by some stroke of luck you selected the raiders who play in a different time zone and yet it had nothing to do with them winning all the time. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm How old are you again?

Otherwise, you would have seen yourself in the comment where I gave kudos to the "true" Pats fans who have been with the team through the bad times.

I did, I just take exception to trashing Patriots nation when it appears more likely than not you are a front runner yourself.

And I'll wait while you point out where *I* picked apart Belichick, as you contend.

You started the thread with the stupid opinion piece! I suppose deep down you really had some altruistic intent in posting the piece?Then at some point you move on to denigrating "most" Pats fans.

You are obviously jealous and bitter and probably real tired of hearing all the (well deserved) negative criticism of oak and Al "I lost my fast ball years ago" Davis. I feel bad for ya and I am sure the Raiders will rise again (after Al), but if you are intent on trashing BB and "most" pats fans then I am going to throw it right back at ya. You obviously did just what you are claiming many pats fans did. So what, just don't be such a hypocrite.

I'm callin em like I sees em.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I actually think its true that the Patriots were not popular enough to fill the stadium in the 70s and 80s. But that doesnt mean that a whole geographic region didnt want them to be better, didn't root for them every sunday, etc. Do you have any idea how FAR it is from Bangor or Montpelier to Foxboro?

Have you considered the possibility that some of the "better" football locations (as defined by fans loyal enough to fill the stands even though the current team sucks) only act that way because their teams were once great? The Patriots were never great (never referring to in my life / 1964 forward). But we all used to watch, and be a little sad when they lost, and joke around about how much they sucked only to watch em again and root for em again next week. Come on; everybody loved John Hannah and everybody wanted the best for Steve Grogan.

I think you've got filling a stadium confused with fan loyalty.

 

[dparker713]

I am calling em like I see em, you live in NE and yet somehow when you were very young you just happened to not follow NE who was losing at the time and by some stroke of luck you selected the raiders who play in a different time zone and yet it had nothing to do with them winning all the time. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm How old are you again?

Please, the Pats are no more the team of New England than the Cowboys are America's Team. The Pats are a Boston team through and through and always have been. No more reason for people in Maine or Vermont to be Pats fans than for them to be Red Sox fans.

 

[Raider Nation]

I actually think its true that the Patriots were not popular enough to fill the stadium in the 70s and 80s. But that doesnt mean that a whole geographic region didnt want them to be better, didn't root for them every sunday, etc. Do you have any idea how FAR it is from Bangor or Montpelier to Foxboro?Have you considered the possibility that some of the "better" football locations (as defined by fans loyal enough to fill the stands even though the current team sucks) only act that way because their teams were once great? The Patriots were never great (never referring to in my life / 1964 forward). But we all used to watch, and be a little sad when they lost, and joke around about how much they sucked only to watch em again and root for em again next week. Come on; everybody loved John Hannah and everybody wanted the best for Steve Grogan.I think you've got filling a stadium confused with fan loyalty.

I respect your opinion. You're a true Pats fan, unlike that Revival guy who types 4,000 words trying to convince me (and himself) he's a true fan also.

 

[Raider Nation]

I am calling em like I see em, you live in NE and yet somehow when you were very young you just happened to not follow NE who was losing at the time and by some stroke of luck you selected the raiders who play in a different time zone and yet it had nothing to do with them winning all the time. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm How old are you again?

Please, the Pats are no more the team of New England than the Cowboys are America's Team. The Pats are a Boston team through and through and always have been. No more reason for people in Maine or Vermont to be Pats fans than for them to be Red Sox fans.

I'm not sure logic and reason have any place here.If you grew up in any New England state not named Massachusetts, it's silly to think you HAVE to root for the Pats just because they stuck "New England" in their name... after being the Boston Patriots for several years, by the way. I always considered myself a free agent fan. If there is not a professional team in your home state, cheer for whomever you choose.

Just don't act like you've liked the Pats forever if you can't name one pre-Bledsoe player without Google's help.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I am calling em like I see em, you live in NE and yet somehow when you were very young you just happened to not follow NE who was losing at the time and by some stroke of luck you selected the raiders who play in a different time zone and yet it had nothing to do with them winning all the time. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm How old are you again?

Please, the Pats are no more the team of New England than the Cowboys are America's Team. The Pats are a Boston team through and through and always have been. No more reason for people in Maine or Vermont to be Pats fans than for them to be Red Sox fans.

A guy I know and like from upstate NY is a Red Sox fan. I've told him that that's messed up.If you were born and raised in NY you are obligated to be a Yankees or Mets fan, and a Jets, Giants or Bills fan.If you were born in ME, NH, VT, MA, CT, or RI you are obligated to be a fan of the Red Sox, Celtics, Patriots and Bruins.By my estimation only, there are 5-10% of New Englanders who don't follow the Red Sox rule and 10-15% who dont follow the Patriots rule.These people should either be mocked or ostrasized.It is law.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I actually think its true that the Patriots were not popular enough to fill the stadium in the 70s and 80s. But that doesnt mean that a whole geographic region didnt want them to be better, didn't root for them every sunday, etc. Do you have any idea how FAR it is from Bangor or Montpelier to Foxboro?Have you considered the possibility that some of the "better" football locations (as defined by fans loyal enough to fill the stands even though the current team sucks) only act that way because their teams were once great? The Patriots were never great (never referring to in my life / 1964 forward). But we all used to watch, and be a little sad when they lost, and joke around about how much they sucked only to watch em again and root for em again next week. Come on; everybody loved John Hannah and everybody wanted the best for Steve Grogan.I think you've got filling a stadium confused with fan loyalty.

I respect your opinion. You're a true Pats fan, unlike that Revival guy who types 4,000 words trying to convince me (and himself) he's a true fan also.

tx; respect yours too...dont be offended by my New England fan law either...just messing around.

 

[DudeWheresMyRB]

Just don't act like you've liked the Pats forever if you can't name one pre-Bledsoe player without Google's help.

Should have asked that question _before_ they were marched out last weekend on the all 50th team...

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I actually think its true that the Patriots were not popular enough to fill the stadium in the 70s and 80s. But that doesnt mean that a whole geographic region didnt want them to be better, didn't root for them every sunday, etc. Do you have any idea how FAR it is from Bangor or Montpelier to Foxboro?Have you considered the possibility that some of the "better" football locations (as defined by fans loyal enough to fill the stands even though the current team sucks) only act that way because their teams were once great? The Patriots were never great (never referring to in my life / 1964 forward). But we all used to watch, and be a little sad when they lost, and joke around about how much they sucked only to watch em again and root for em again next week. Come on; everybody loved John Hannah and everybody wanted the best for Steve Grogan.I think you've got filling a stadium confused with fan loyalty.

I respect your opinion. You're a true Pats fan, unlike that Revival guy who types 4,000 words trying to convince me (and himself) he's a true fan also.

I don't need to convince anyone I am a true fan (member of FBG forum in summer of 2000 with current moniker, yes I was ahead of the curve), I am not the one wagging my finger at other teams fans. FTR, I am 48 and I have been a Pats fan since at least 74, 75 or so and loved them ever since. How old are you?You on the other hand jumped on the Raiders band wagon (since they were winning) and now that the embarrassing fact has been proven, you have been exposed as a bit of a front running hypocrite yourself. Now stop digging and the hole won't get any deeper, then leave the Patriots and their great fans alone and we will do likewise with the raiders and their front running fans; you know, like you

 

[dparker713]

I am calling em like I see em, you live in NE and yet somehow when you were very young you just happened to not follow NE who was losing at the time and by some stroke of luck you selected the raiders who play in a different time zone and yet it had nothing to do with them winning all the time. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm How old are you again?

Please, the Pats are no more the team of New England than the Cowboys are America's Team. The Pats are a Boston team through and through and always have been. No more reason for people in Maine or Vermont to be Pats fans than for them to be Red Sox fans.

A guy I know and like from upstate NY is a Red Sox fan. I've told him that that's messed up.If you were born and raised in NY you are obligated to be a Yankees or Mets fan, and a Jets, Giants or Bills fan.If you were born in ME, NH, VT, MA, CT, or RI you are obligated to be a fan of the Red Sox, Celtics, Patriots and Bruins.By my estimation only, there are 5-10% of New Englanders who don't follow the Red Sox rule and 10-15% who dont follow the Patriots rule.These people should either be mocked or ostrasized.It is law.

Upstate NY is like a different planet, I see no reason to be a Yank or Mets fan. They seem to be baseball FAs. Anything more than an hour drive in the northeast is at best mixed country.ETA - there is zero chance you can claim all of CT considering how much of that state commutes to NYC