A RBBC In Miami? (1 Viewer)

[ConstruxBoy]

From RotoWorld:

Ricky Williams showed up to offseason workouts in "tip-top shape" and indicated he thinks the Dolphins will use a committee at running back this season.

Williams says he turned down Cedric Benson's invitation to join him for a recent Lake Travis boating trip. Smart move. In their first meeting, Ricky says Bill Parcells told him he'll share carries with Ronnie Brown this year. Parcells and coach Tony Sparano have long been fans of running back committees.

Source: Palm Beach Post

Related: Ronnie Brown, Bears

Wat?I'm not writing off Ricky Williams, but that statement makes me think that the writer doesn't even know that Parcells coached anywhere before Dallas. He's ridden a workhorse throughout the vast majority of his career.

Finally some sense in this thread. Parcells isn't a RBBC guy. Geez. He traded to get his workhorse when he left to coach another team. Too many Ricky Williams fans in here.

Well, Before Parcells took the Miami job - As an analyst, I saw him talk about how the NFL has Changed since then...... He said in today's game, he thinks RB's are disposable and that you need to put your eggs in more than 1 basket....

To me, Parcells Certainly feels today's game needs somewhat of a RBBC.... If nothing else than to have the backup confident and ready to go at a moments notice.

Add in a guy coming off an ACL.

I'm not a RW fan but, I can see a limit on R Brown's work load this year - It's not as if they're competing for the Super Bowl this year - I think It's in their best interest to get Brown 100% for the following year and beyond.

I agree that the NFL is changing and I'm sure Parcells recognizes that. I think you're correct that for the first part of the season, they'll take it easy on RB and play RW more. I just think that as the season goes on, you'll see more and more RB, not to mention the fact that RW could screw up, and by season's end, RB will have gotten 65% - 75% of the running back touches in Miami.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

I'll say it again. PARCELS IS NOT THE COACH OF THE DOLPHINS!!!

He's not calling the plays.

Yeah, and what he did to build the coaching and front office staff, so great was his desire to avoid building the team in his image, was to actually pick names out of a hat. Yup, Parcells, that model of humility, will have no influence upon how this team is built or coached, and certainly didn't choose people who share the same philosophy with him.

You're right on it!

 

[Maroney=Sped]

I wasn't cherry picking. Here are the facts:

- Bill has coached for 19 seasons

- In only 5 of those 19 seasons did RB1 not get 250+ carries

- Bill's RB1 has averaged 286 carries

- Bill's RB2 has averaged 88 carries

- That is a 76/24% split

By the way, you say that 300 carries is not a ton. Please give me your definition of a workhorse back, in terms of raw numbers. I guess my definition would be around 250 carries/300 touches, or perhaps a 70/30 split with RB2.

I tihnk you're averages are skewed by the few times Parcells used a workhorse:1983 NYG:

Butch Woolfolk 246 59%

Rob Carpenter 170 41%

1984 NYG:

Rob Carpenter 250 65%

Joe Morris 133 35%

1985 NYG:

Joe Morris* 294 61%

George Adams 128 27%

Rob Carpenter 60 12%

1986 NYG:

Joe Morris*+ 341 73%

Maurice Carthon 72 15%

Lee Rouson 54 12%

1987 NYG:

Joe Morris 193 65%

George Adams 61 21%

Lee Rouson 41 14%

-- plus there were 3 other RBs who had 80 carries among them which I did not consider in the %

1988 NYG:

Joe Morris 307 73%

Ottis Anderson 65 16%

Maurice Carthon 46 11%

1989 NYG:

Ottis Anderson 325 70%

Lewis Tillman 79 17%

Maurice Carthon 57 13%

1990 NYG:

Ottis Anderson 225 54%

Rodney Hampton 109 26%

Lewis Tillman 84 20%

1993 NE:

Leonard Russell 300 66%

Corey Croom 60 13%

Kevin Turner 50 11%

Sam Gash 24 48 10%

1994 NE:

Marion Butts 243 70%

Leroy Thompson 102 30%

1995 NE:

Curtis Martin* 368 86%

Dave Meggett 60 14%

1996 NE:

Curtis Martin* 316 83%

Dave Meggett* 40 10%

Marrio Grier 27 7%

1997 NYJ:

Adrian Murrell 300 86%

Leon Johnson 48 14%

1998 NYJ:

Curtis Martin* 369 82%

Leon Johnson 41 9%

Jerald Sowell 40 9%

1999 NYJ:

Curtis Martin 367 93%

Bernie Parmalee 27 7%

2003 DAL:

Troy Hambrick 275 80%

Richie Anderson 70 20%

three other RBs saw 87 carries combined which I did not consider in the %

2004 DAL:

Julius Jones 197 51%

Eddie George 132 34%

Richie Anderson 57 15%

ReShard Lee had 27 carries which I did not consider in the %

2005 DAL:

Julius Jones 257 58%

Marion Barber 138 31%

Tyson Thompson 46 11%

Anthony Thomas had 36 carries which I did not consider in the %

2006 DAL:

Julius Jones 267 66%

Marion Barber 135 34%

Like I said 9 out of 19 seasons Parcells was not using RBBC. Here's how I define RBBC, where any RB outside of the feature back receives at least 30% of the carries OR the primary RB receives less than 70% of the workload. RBBC isn't always just two RBs, sometimes there is a 65% RB than 2 or 3 that make up the 35%.

@ anyone who thinks that the way that Parcells' Giants teams ran their offense has anything to do with what's happening today.

 

[switz]

@ anyone who thinks that the way that Parcells' Giants teams ran their offense has anything to do with what's happening today.

The argument was whether Parcells preferred RBBC or a workhorse. History suggests when he has two capable backs he uses them both, and his entire history is relevant in that discussion. That doesn't mean he's going to run the team the same way the Giants were ran, but it does show he's not afraid to use a committee. And if you are looking for more recent coaching - then Dallas is the most - and it would indicate he prefers RBBC.

 

[switz]

Like I said 9 out of 19 seasons Parcells was not using RBBC. Here's how I define RBBC, where any RB outside of the feature back receives at least 30% of the carries OR the primary RB receives less than 70% of the workload. RBBC isn't always just two RBs, sometimes there is a 65% RB than 2 or 3 that make up the 35%.

That's likely a more stringent definition of a RBBC than most. By your definition, only 9 teams last year had a lead RB with at least 70% of the RB carries. So, compared to most, Parcells would tend use a primary RB.

You are correct - the league is trending more and more toward using some sort of committee.

 

[Tanner9919]

From RotoWorld:Ricky Williams showed up to offseason workouts in "tip-top shape" and indicated he thinks the Dolphins will use a committee at running back this season.Williams says he turned down Cedric Benson's invitation to join him for a recent Lake Travis boating trip. Smart move. In their first meeting, Ricky says Bill Parcells told him he'll share carries with Ronnie Brown this year. Parcells and coach Tony Sparano have long been fans of running back committees.Source: Palm Beach Post Related: Ronnie Brown, Bears

just following what Tuna has done in Dallas and so on, I don't think its a reach to say a RBBC is coming with him as GM inMiami

 

[browntown]

Define "committee"? To me it's one of the more over-stated terms. Guys are going to share carries, whether it's 50/50 or 80/20, it can still be referred to as a committee.

As for the one in Miami, it's the pre-season so nobody should be expecting thinks to shape up exactly as it appears they will. They'd be smart to limit Brown to no more than 250 carries coming off surgery. That's 15.6 carries, of which the other 10-15 will have to be made up of some combination of Williams or otherwise. They want to keep Williams motivated so naturally he's being promoted as a committee member, but realistically he won't see any more than 10 carries a game, and I could definitely see it being less if Parmalee and/or Hilliard shows anything.

 

[switz]

Define "committee"? To me it's one of the more over-stated terms. Guys are going to share carries, whether it's 50/50 or 80/20, it can still be referred to as a committee.As for the one in Miami, it's the pre-season so nobody should be expecting thinks to shape up exactly as it appears they will. They'd be smart to limit Brown to no more than 250 carries coming off surgery. That's 15.6 carries, of which the other 10-15 will have to be made up of some combination of Williams or otherwise. They want to keep Williams motivated so naturally he's being promoted as a committee member, but realistically he won't see any more than 10 carries a game, and I could definitely see it being less if Parmalee and/or Hilliard shows anything.

OK, so assume, per your argument that Brown gets 15 carries, Williams gets 10 - that means Brown only sees 60% of the carries. Clearly committee. Even from someone who is apparently a Brown fan.

 

[browntown]

Define "committee"? To me it's one of the more over-stated terms. Guys are going to share carries, whether it's 50/50 or 80/20, it can still be referred to as a committee.As for the one in Miami, it's the pre-season so nobody should be expecting thinks to shape up exactly as it appears they will. They'd be smart to limit Brown to no more than 250 carries coming off surgery. That's 15.6 carries, of which the other 10-15 will have to be made up of some combination of Williams or otherwise. They want to keep Williams motivated so naturally he's being promoted as a committee member, but realistically he won't see any more than 10 carries a game, and I could definitely see it being less if Parmalee and/or Hilliard shows anything.

OK, so assume, per your argument that Brown gets 15 carries, Williams gets 10 - that means Brown only sees 60% of the carries. Clearly committee. Even from someone who is apparently a Brown fan.

For a guy coming off major injury, doesn't it go without saying that he'll be sharing carries with someone else? Look around the league, how many situations are there that haven't been called "committee's"? When the term RBBC started making the rounds, it was to explain time shares and for situations that were a near even split, and where a starter wasn't often pronounced. Now any guy who occasionally gives way to someone off the bench must be in a committee. It's to the point where there's very few "workhorse" backs left b/c they're all in these so-called committee's. Brown is the unquestioned starter where they'll likely limit his workload by going to a number of options off the bench for the occasional carry throughout a game. If you classify that as a committee, then that's what it is apparently. For me the term still has a more specific meaning. There's a lot of starters in the league getting a 60/40 split that I wouldn't classify being in a committee, they just aren't playing on all downs.

 

[TheFanatic]

I'll say it again. PARCELS IS NOT THE COACH OF THE DOLPHINS!!!

He's not calling the plays.

Yeah, and what he did to build the coaching and front office staff, so great was his desire to avoid building the team in his image, was to actually pick names out of a hat. Yup, Parcells, that model of humility, will have no influence upon how this team is built or coached, and certainly didn't choose people who share the same philosophy with him.

You're right on it!

Yeap, I'm sure that Tuna would hire a guy that can't think for himself. Guys don't become assistant coaches and head coaches by being clones of the HC. And I'm sure a solid assistant coach whose star is on the rise is going to go to a team where he will be a puppet for some guy in the front office no matter who that guy is. Tuna is not going to call the plays on Sunday. Didn't Tuna firmly believe that since he was the cook he should be able to buy the ingredients where being the cook was being a HC and the ingredients are the players? Don't you think that Sparano has some say in the personnel he wants and how he will run his team?

Also the mark of a good leader is to surround himself with people smarter than he is and not a bunch of yes men. Tuna had Bellichek for years. He wasn't a yes man. He did his own thing his own way.

But keep on believing that a VP or President (I don't know his actual title) will be the guy calling plays on Sunday. He's not even the friggin GM. He's a front office guy.

If Sparano decides a RBBC is his best bet to win and it works no one will say squat. If he decides to ride the hot hand and go with a single RB and they win no one will say sqaut. Can't wait till they have to burn all kinds of TO's and get all kinds of delays of game penalties because Sparano is calling up to the Front Office box to get the play Tuna wants to run.

 

[AussieOyOyOy]

Emmitt Smith had 70% or greater of Dallas' carries in 3 of his 13 seasons there.

 

[packersfan]

Like I said 9 out of 19 seasons Parcells was not using RBBC. Here's how I define RBBC, where any RB outside of the feature back receives at least 30% of the carries OR the primary RB receives less than 70% of the workload. RBBC isn't always just two RBs, sometimes there is a 65% RB than 2 or 3 that make up the 35%.

That's likely a more stringent definition of a RBBC than most. By your definition, only 9 teams last year had a lead RB with at least 70% of the RB carries. So, compared to most, Parcells would tend use a primary RB.

You are correct - the league is trending more and more toward using some sort of committee.

It's especially true if you have a starting RB who has never played a full season in the NFL, has never amassed more than 300 carries in any NFL season and even shared time at the collegiate level.Anybody on the Dolphins fit that description?

 

[AussieOyOyOy]

Point is that 70% is ridiculous. Barry Sanders went 7 out of 10 using that standard. I guess it was RBBC those other three years. What it actually is, is just pulling a number out of one's behind and then constructing an argument for it.

Parcells has histortically leaned upon a dominant runner. I can't see how anyone could come to a different conclusion.

 

[packersfan]

From RotoWorld:

Ricky Williams (pectorals) has looked "good, really good" during offseason workouts, according to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

The paper goes so far as to suggest Williams could "start a game or two" this year. And a Happy Birthday shout out to Ricky, who turned 31 Wednesday.

Source: South Florida Sun-Sentinel

 

[massraider]

From RotoWorld:Ricky Williams (pectorals) has looked "good, really good" during offseason workouts, according to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.The paper goes so far as to suggest Williams could "start a game or two" this year. And a Happy Birthday shout out to Ricky, who turned 31 Wednesday.Source: South Florida Sun-Sentinel

I always liked Ricky, but man, I have serious doubts about his chances to make a fantasy impact. I'm rooting for him, tho.

 

[fsufan]

heard Tony S on NFL radio today and he said Brown looked good, for what it is worth