A tool for ranking offensive lines (1 Viewer)

[chris1969]

Wow, Chris, thanks so much for sharing this effort. I assume you want minor input on any level, so here it goes. The Packer Right Guard, Jason Spitz (3rd rd) was drafted last year along with the Left Guard, Daryn Colledge (2nd rd ... proper spelling has a D in it), so his EXP rank should be 2 and not 4. Tony Moll (5th rd), one of the Packer backups, was also drafted last year and played in all 16 games and started 10 games at several positions (including 5 at RT). Moll was a tight end until his Senior season when he switched to be an offensive lineman, he was considered a "project", yet played like a veteran when given a chance. To draft 3 linemen in one season (who totaled 38 starts as Packer rookies) that got better as the year progressed, while learning the zone blocking scheme, was huge for the Packer's overall team situation.Ironically it was the Left Guard, College, who looked overmatched in Game 1, lost his job and then earned it back. I see that you have bestowed a +1 in ADI for Colledge and not Spitz, which I think is fair given that the Packer HC Mike McCarthy named Colledge the team's most improved player at the end of the season. Colledge made the All-Rookie team as well. But it's worth noting that Spitz started 13 games at both guard spots after 38 career starts under Bobby Petrino at Louisville. The Packer coaches loved that he had great hands and didn't draw holding calls and he showed excellent strength.In the game at Miami in October, Chad Clifton the LT was sick and didn't play. So Colledge shifted to LT (which he played in college, with NO D ), Spitz moved from RG to LG and the backup Tony Moll came in at RG. It was the first time since the merger (1970) that 3 ROOKIES played for Green Bay on the offensive line, and the Packers rushed for 155 yards and Spitz made a block on Zach Thomas that helped Ahman Green BUST a 70 yard TD run.I state this as an overall guide to illustrate how much the Packers benefited from last year's draft, when they already had competant tackles, as your ranking show. I don't feel qualified to rank all the Guards in the league as you propose, so I apologize in advance. I will assert that the question marks that Green Bay had in the interior of their offensive line, when last season started, are Vastly Improved and people should not underestimate the Packer's offensive line going forward. I'm not sure how you would quantify my observations in your rankings, but Moll (maybe show lifetime starts for the backups?) can play both guards, right tackle, and is considered to be an excellent tackle prospect. Some have proposed that Spitz move to center in Well's spot, while Moll takes the RG spot to get the best players on the field (no evidence this will actually happen).Thanks again for your efforts and though I can't rank the Packer linemen accurately against all their competition in the league, I tried to pitch in what I could muster.

That's actually really good! Especially the data errors. I did this all by hand and copied back and forth between a bunch of different spreadsheets, so I know those things will pop up in the data that are just plain wrong. I tried hard to proofread, but considering that there are 256 payers on that list, I expect to eat crow on some of the data. I really didn't think about other guys not being able to rank the whole list at a position, and really appreciate the fact that you mentioned it. Homers if you can't rank your guy against the list than give a good description like that! Also I'm really depending on you guys to find errors like that. At least that gives me something to think about. I really find your Colledge vs Spitz comments interesting, because I think that overall the LG's are have much more talent overall than the RG's and if they are really that close together, Spitz should probably be ranked higher than than Colledge on the list. As far as the 155 yard rushing game goes that gets diminished a little with me because of the 70 yard run. If that run didn't happen, they would have had 85 yds rushing against a team that normally gives up 100 yds. They get bonus points for having 3 rookies playing though. I'm also really dumbfounded about that o-line because, by all rights, considering the turn-over the last couple of years, they should be in the bottom 3. I'm already leaning toward adjusting Spitz's ADI, because with me, Green Bay was one of those, "How did they do that?" o-lines. I gave a lot of credit to Farve, but even Manning would not be able to make that much young talent look as good as they did last year. I would really like a comparison between Colledge and Spitz if you could muster one. If not you, maybe another GB could chime in.

I agree with the Jason Peters post - He has a lot of potential to even make the Pro Bowl this year.

Seriously? I agree that Peters has huge potential, but he has a lot of technique problems that inhibit what could be an elite pass blocker. I realize that he's a young converted TE and a lot of those things will be coached out of him, but he won't be that guy this year. Even if he solves all the technique problems, he still has a problem with bull-rushers. I don't see him ever being anything other than an average run blocker though. He has the potential to prove me wrong, but that's a lot of time in the gym or being traded to a zone blocking team. Buffalo Homers, please add comments to tell me what I'm missing!

You guys were right on and I was wrong on Peters. My apologies to Buffalo fans.Does anybody still have a copy of this tool as it was back then? I've made a bunch of revisions and would like to see it as it was so I can make some tweaks this year.

 

[GoBills02]

Wow, Chris, thanks so much for sharing this effort. I assume you want minor input on any level, so here it goes. The Packer Right Guard, Jason Spitz (3rd rd) was drafted last year along with the Left Guard, Daryn Colledge (2nd rd ... proper spelling has a D in it), so his EXP rank should be 2 and not 4. Tony Moll (5th rd), one of the Packer backups, was also drafted last year and played in all 16 games and started 10 games at several positions (including 5 at RT). Moll was a tight end until his Senior season when he switched to be an offensive lineman, he was considered a "project", yet played like a veteran when given a chance. To draft 3 linemen in one season (who totaled 38 starts as Packer rookies) that got better as the year progressed, while learning the zone blocking scheme, was huge for the Packer's overall team situation.Ironically it was the Left Guard, College, who looked overmatched in Game 1, lost his job and then earned it back. I see that you have bestowed a +1 in ADI for Colledge and not Spitz, which I think is fair given that the Packer HC Mike McCarthy named Colledge the team's most improved player at the end of the season. Colledge made the All-Rookie team as well. But it's worth noting that Spitz started 13 games at both guard spots after 38 career starts under Bobby Petrino at Louisville. The Packer coaches loved that he had great hands and didn't draw holding calls and he showed excellent strength.In the game at Miami in October, Chad Clifton the LT was sick and didn't play. So Colledge shifted to LT (which he played in college, with NO D ), Spitz moved from RG to LG and the backup Tony Moll came in at RG. It was the first time since the merger (1970) that 3 ROOKIES played for Green Bay on the offensive line, and the Packers rushed for 155 yards and Spitz made a block on Zach Thomas that helped Ahman Green BUST a 70 yard TD run.I state this as an overall guide to illustrate how much the Packers benefited from last year's draft, when they already had competant tackles, as your ranking show. I don't feel qualified to rank all the Guards in the league as you propose, so I apologize in advance. I will assert that the question marks that Green Bay had in the interior of their offensive line, when last season started, are Vastly Improved and people should not underestimate the Packer's offensive line going forward. I'm not sure how you would quantify my observations in your rankings, but Moll (maybe show lifetime starts for the backups?) can play both guards, right tackle, and is considered to be an excellent tackle prospect. Some have proposed that Spitz move to center in Well's spot, while Moll takes the RG spot to get the best players on the field (no evidence this will actually happen).Thanks again for your efforts and though I can't rank the Packer linemen accurately against all their competition in the league, I tried to pitch in what I could muster.

That's actually really good! Especially the data errors. I did this all by hand and copied back and forth between a bunch of different spreadsheets, so I know those things will pop up in the data that are just plain wrong. I tried hard to proofread, but considering that there are 256 payers on that list, I expect to eat crow on some of the data. I really didn't think about other guys not being able to rank the whole list at a position, and really appreciate the fact that you mentioned it. Homers if you can't rank your guy against the list than give a good description like that! Also I'm really depending on you guys to find errors like that. At least that gives me something to think about. I really find your Colledge vs Spitz comments interesting, because I think that overall the LG's are have much more talent overall than the RG's and if they are really that close together, Spitz should probably be ranked higher than than Colledge on the list. As far as the 155 yard rushing game goes that gets diminished a little with me because of the 70 yard run. If that run didn't happen, they would have had 85 yds rushing against a team that normally gives up 100 yds. They get bonus points for having 3 rookies playing though. I'm also really dumbfounded about that o-line because, by all rights, considering the turn-over the last couple of years, they should be in the bottom 3. I'm already leaning toward adjusting Spitz's ADI, because with me, Green Bay was one of those, "How did they do that?" o-lines. I gave a lot of credit to Farve, but even Manning would not be able to make that much young talent look as good as they did last year. I would really like a comparison between Colledge and Spitz if you could muster one. If not you, maybe another GB could chime in.

I agree with the Jason Peters post - He has a lot of potential to even make the Pro Bowl this year.

Seriously? I agree that Peters has huge potential, but he has a lot of technique problems that inhibit what could be an elite pass blocker. I realize that he's a young converted TE and a lot of those things will be coached out of him, but he won't be that guy this year. Even if he solves all the technique problems, he still has a problem with bull-rushers. I don't see him ever being anything other than an average run blocker though. He has the potential to prove me wrong, but that's a lot of time in the gym or being traded to a zone blocking team. Buffalo Homers, please add comments to tell me what I'm missing!

You guys were right on and I was wrong on Peters. My apologies to Buffalo fans.Does anybody still have a copy of this tool as it was back then? I've made a bunch of revisions and would like to see it as it was so I can make some tweaks this year.

LOLOL, sorry Chris, I came off as a little know it all.. I just spent an hour looking for this link, because I wanted t see this years version of the tool. Kudos for owning up, but I probably didn't deserve it, as I gave you know factual or useful knowledge to lend to the discussion. How many times do you hear fans say, "I just know". You saw how much the Bills OL needs Peters, when he was out against Philly the last week, it was a completely different OL.Way to own up though!!!!!! Another year together, my only questions on the OL are Melvin Flower at C. Really happy with Dockery and Peters on the left side for the next 5 years. Hoping we give Peters the raise he deserves. From undrafted TE to Pro Bowl left tackle in 4 years. Amazing.....