A week later, I am still crushed. The perspective of a mixed-race marriage and a loss of trust (5 Viewers)

[Capella]

I honestly do not think day to day life for you or your future child will be effected one bit by who is President.

If you were gay, Muslim or Mexican I bet you would feel different. 

 

[RBM]

You cried about Obama for 8 ####ing years. This guy doesn't get a week?

I hear ya but can we wait until he gets into office and actually does something first?  Anybody who wants to ##### about policy crap in a year, go right ahead. I expect it. This kind of crap is way over the top though. 

 

[anakin]

I understand your response. My wife and I are too old to have kids, but I am very fortunate to have nieces and nephews who are considered "mixed". I encourage them all to understand their culture the English/German/French/American Indian side (my family) as well as either their Chinese side (my BIL) or African-American side (my SIL). I too voted for Hillary as a lesser of two evils, but wish Bernie would have still been in play. Trump came across charismatic and spoke to people that thought America had passed them by. Too bad Donnie hasn't done much with his world other than create a brand much like the Kardashians. Sorry, four bankrupt casinos, Trump University ( forced to be renamed Trump Entrepreneur Institute) do reveal a bit about his business acumen true believers. 

It's your job as a parent to protect your children as they grow.  Whomever you let them interact with is your choice, but don't shelter them from the truth. The world is not always nice or kind. I would have a conversation with anyone I was excluding from my life or life of my children as to why if they ever mattered to me. 

By the way, I confronted our PE on Twitter about two years ago about his book "Art of the Deal". He blatantly copied words and ideas from Sun-Tzu a 5th century BC Chinese strategist (The Art of War) and passed them off as his own. When I called Trump on it on Twitter, he denied knowing who Sun-Tzu was and blocked me. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Even if you think that Trump is exactly the same as Hitler then you have to continue on that path and recognize that neither our democratic institutions nor our entire body politic are anywhere near, as in not remotely close, to the conditions in Germany in the 1920's.

Germany was a homogeneous people - suffering under deplorable conditions - living in a freshly minted, unfamiliar, and unstable democracy - the exact opposite of 2016 America.

By looking at one part of a complex equation you're stereotyping the "opposition", including your friends.

Is Trump racist? Maybe. Even probably. But there were lots of issues in this election and race was way down the list for a lot of people even though it's obviously #1 with a bullet to you. Same with Trump's sexism. 

Most Trump voters didn't vote for him because he's racist. They did so IN SPITE OF IT. I think it would behoove you to understand those reasons and not throw the friendship baby out with the bathwater.

At the same time, I think it would behoove some of the people who think Koya and others like him are overreacting to realize that the bolded is still pretty god#### awful. 

"He's a racist who has spent a lifetime sexually assaulting and harassing women but I still voted for him because _______" is one hell of a fill in the blank question.  I suppose I can understand those who fill in the blank with "he'll appoint pro-life judges and Justices, and that issue is so important to me that it overrides everything else."  But that's the only answer I can come up with that makes any sense to me.

 

[Card Trader]

If you were gay, Muslim or Mexican I bet you would feel different. 

My significant other is a Mexican, my Ex (2 kids with) is from El Salvador my children are mixed-race and I'm pretty sure my son might be gay. Tell me how I'm suppose to feel?

 

[Capella]

I hear ya but can we wait until he gets into office and actually does something first?  Anybody who wants to ##### about policy crap in a year, go right ahead. I expect it. This kind of crap is way over the top though. 

Personally I think he might have a chance to be fine if he cuts out the racist, anti-gay crap. But that doesn't look great with Bannon on board. 

My whole issue with it all is he ran off a campaign of fear and racist dog whistles and it worked. Just thought this country would be able to filter this kind of stuff out by now. 

 

[Black Box]

Then just don't ask them to be your godparents. The world doesn't need to know about it, nor does it really care. Good luck.

 

[Hov34]

This, we really give way too much credence to the roll of President - it really is just a figure head, and be it Dem. or Rep. it doesn't really matter - they are both just puppets.

I don't agree, but even if they're puppets, they have very different puppeteers. 

I don't agree, as long as we keep arguing over stupid #### our dark overlords don't care if it's a D or R by the Presidents name.  They own both parties.

 

[[icon]]

I hear ya but can we wait until he gets into office and actually does something first?  Anybody who wants to ##### about policy crap in a year, go right ahead. I expect it. This kind of crap is way over the top though. 

This. I can't tell you how many "he's going to revoke gay marriage!" cries i saw, only to have him plainly state gay marriage law is done. 

The guy is a #####, and he's said some pretty reprehensible ####.... but the hand wringing over the US becoming the 4th Reich is comical best, but is rapidly approaching pathetic. 

I'm in a multi-racial relationship. Have been for over a decade. Nothing has changed. Nothing will change. 

 

[Capella]

My significant other is a Mexican, my Ex (2 kids with) is from El Salvador my children are mixed-race and I'm pretty sure my son might be gay. Tell me how I'm suppose to feel?

I don't care how you feel tbh, but if what you're saying is true it's hard to understand how you could be fine with that ticket. But to each their own. 

 

[Card Trader]

I don't care how you feel tbh, but if what you're saying is true it's hard to understand how you could be fine with that ticket. But to each their own. 

I didn't vote Trump, but I'm not unhappy he won.  Why would I be?  Because he campaigned on slowing down illegal immigration? 

 

[tommyboy]

Am I the only one that gets outraged when people so easily minimize who Hitler was and what he did? If you want to say Trump is = to David Duke, ok. But to compare him to someone who is responsible for millions of deaths is a bit sickening. 

If you really believe Trump is Hitler, then why are you still here and not packing up your bags due to real fear.    If I felt that way I'd be moving to another place not named the US to protect my family.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

This. I can't tell you how many "he's going to revoke gay marriage!" cries i saw, only to have him plainly state gay marriage law is done. 

The guy is a #####, and he's said some pretty reprehensible ####.... but the hand wringing over the US becoming the 4th Reich is comical best, but is rapidly approaching pathetic. 

I have a family member who is 100% certain that they are going to put gays, lesbians, etc. into internment camps so that they can receive conversion therapy. 

 

[RBM]

Personally I think he might have a chance to be fine if he cuts out the racist, anti-gay crap. 

Anti-gay? Trump?

 

[Da Guru]

Pot meet Kettle

Yikes!!

 

[Copeman]

I think you should go look for a safe space.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Wait, there was a Presidential election?  Man, where have I been.

 

[Card Trader]

Anti-gay? Trump?

That's what some media outlets are telling them.  Huffpo I'm guessing.

 

[jomar]

I've talked to more than a few Trump supporters over the last week.  what I get from them is that Trump is not a racist or a sexist.  that was all propaganda from the liberal media.  The audio tape is just locker room talk, the accusers are lying, Trump settled his discrimination suit without admission of guilt, on and on, just rationalizing anything you can say that points to him being racist/bigot/sexist. 

on the other hand, everything Breitbart/Drudge/Hannity has said about Hillary is completely true and so obvious they can't believe everyone can't see it.  they freely admit those media sources are biased but 'at least they are open about it'.  apparently being open about it means that the anything they write/say is true and indisputable.  they don't watch CNN because of their hidden bias yet love Breitbart and its open bias.

in their heads, this election was like any prior election, an R vs a D.  R is good, D is bad.  you can't debate with them, its like debating a flat earther, anything you can show them that shows the world is round is just something I got from the liberal media designed to deceive fools like me naïve enough to believe them.  what can you do?

 

[timschochet]

Not gonna lie, I was as devastated as Koya, still am. 

But- I look at the Trump supporters in this forum, most of them: SIDA, RBM, Loan Sharks, Court Jester, etc- and they're not racists, and they're not fascists. We disagree on a lot of issues but these are good dudes who love America as much as I do, and I truly believe that if Trump ever tried to do anything that was really racist or bigoted or a threat to American liberty, (I'm not talking about questionable appointments now, I'm talking about laws that actually affect people) these folks would turn against him in a heartbeat. I have no doubt of that, and I think they're representative of most people who voted for Trump. 

There are others, however, who truly are racist and they supported Trump for racist reasons- but they're a small minority here and elsewhere. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

 As far as my children? Never would I put the responsibility of their mixed-race well being in the hands of someone who is ok with the bigotry and hate that they will face in life, and, at best, is utterly unaware of the realities they will face.

If you were considering entrusting your children to these friends prior to the election you must have known and trusted them enough to not think they were "ok with bigotry and hate". I know people who voted both ways (and personally I voted for Johnson) and I think of them the same way as I thought of them before. I hope that after maybe a little more time has passed that you reassess your stance here. People have many different reasons for voting the way that they do. 

 

[Murph]

That's what some media outlets are telling them.  Huffpo I'm guessing.

Probably just getting the different bigots mixed-up. There's so much hate it's hard to keep straight. We need a cheat sheet. Hopefully this will help us get started:

Anti-Gay=Pence

Anti-Semite=Bannon

Anti-Mexican / Anti-Muslim = Trump/Pence/Bannon

What/who else am I missing?

 

[E Street Brat]

Koyo

When Obama won in 08. many on the right felt as you do now. Scared and alone. They too were mocked and laughed at. You may have even done it yourself. 

I'm here to tell you it's okay to be afraid America is bigger then one man and the face of real tyranny. We will all stand together. 

Just never forget how you feel today because when the tables turn, and turn they will. Perhaps you will understand the fear of others regardless of how unfounded they my seem to you. And treat them with compassion instead of disdain.

Now stand up, rub some dirt on it and get back in the game. 

 

[IC FBGCav]

Wait, there was a Presidential election?  Man, where have I been.

I knew you were Nick Saban.

 

[Capella]

That's what some media outlets are telling them.  Huffpo I'm guessing.

No, that's what the Mike Pence selection told me. 

 

[tommyboy]

If I were a disheartened Democrat Id be furious at my party for losing both houses, most of the state governorships, lots of state chambers, burying Bernie via the DNC and Hillary sychophants from her campaign, and the mainstream media for lying to you about all this for the last 8 years.    I'd be pissed.  I'd demand change.  But i'd demand the Democrats change, not get mad at the Republicans for taking advantage of the Democrats arrogance.

 

[SIDA!]

Personally I think he might have a chance to be fine if he cuts out the racist, anti-gay crap. But that doesn't look great with Bannon on board. 

You mean...the guy that hired Asians, Jews and gave a platform to flaming homosexual Milo Yiannopoulos. 

Bleak days ahead.

 

[Willie Neslon]

I hear what you're saying and know a lot of people are devastated over the outcome of the election but I feel your anger is misguided. I voted for her but the fact of the matter is Hillary Clinton was a lousy candidate who couldn't beat a guy who most of the world thought was a joke. You should channel that anger towards her campaign and the dnc for totally botching this thing. President Obama himself stood at the podium and scolded her campaign for not getting their message out to the people who needed to hear it. This should never have happened but you can't blame voters for the shortcomings of her campaign. I watched her "closing argument" speech in Philly on the monday night before the election and it was a completely uninspiring, terrible speech.  Her platform was basically my opponent is terrible and I'm a woman. You didn't even vote for her. She couldn't even move you to pull the level even knowing what she was up against. Be upset at the democrats for missing a layup, not the people who voted against her.

 

[[icon]]

https://mises.org/blog/secede-and-decentralize-open-letter-clinton-supporters

 

[Timmay]

Why is racism always a one way street in all of this? Republicans are always painted as the "bad guy"

 

[Capella]

You mean...the guy that hired Asians, Jews and gave a platform to flaming homosexual Milo Yiannopoulos. 

Bleak days ahead.

Pence, Bannon

done with this thread, hope he does well and isn't the hateful dope we've seen 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Haven't read the thread but one day I hope Koya will understand that everyone that voted trump doesn't support racism. Elections are not single issue ballots. People vote how they vote for many reasons.  

The fact Koya looks differently on the people that we're going to be god parents because of how they voted says more about him than his friends.  

 

[James Daulton]

Four years will go by quickly.  If he ####s things up too bad, we bring in someone else.  If not, we should all be better off by then. 

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Good luck, Koya. Don't let the idiots tell you that your feelings and emotions are invalid. 

Seems like the "idiots" are telling him that his feelings and emotions are based on facts that are not necessarily so.  I mean his feelings are based on believing that Trump is a direct parallel to Hitler.  Why should people placate feelings based on what they believe to be a clear misreading of the facts?

Koya's post is a microcosm of the huge divide in America.  Swaths of Americans have been trained to believe that their feelings trump facts, logic, and all dissenting opinions.  Ideologies based on emotion are ripe for emotional over-reactions like those we're seeing in the streets and on social media.

Koya, I'm sure the reasons why you chose the loved ones you did to be your child's Godparents remain true today.  It's because they were good people then, and they remain good people today even if they voted Trump.  Don't demonize loved ones for the group they fall into (Trump supporters) because how's that really different than demonizing someone for other groups they fall into like, say, the Muslim faith or the Jewish faith?  You'd be adamantly opposed to the group smear for the latter while applying the group smear to people you supposedly care about.  Look in the mirror, man.

 

[cobalt_27]

Good luck, Koya. Don't let the idiots tell you that your feelings and emotions are invalid. They won't seek to understand. Making the effort to validate yourself to them in this anonymous form of communication is a waste of time. 

Especially when none of them has the capacity for empathy or humanity.  As Andy astutely noted above, Trump voters put humanity and civil rights way down the list of priorities.  Clearly, he is right.  That is what's so revealing about this election, about Trump supporters, including several notable posters here.  

I share Koya's concerns.  And, I doubt he created this thread in the hope of building bridges with those who--at best--have no capacity for empathy, and at worst, subscribe to the sort of ideas/philosophy that have defined the worst of us and our history.  

 

[The Commish]

I am not changing anything.  He made a choice in not just voting for, but vocally supporting someone who has clearly spoken against and incited hatred toward people/families like us. 

My only contention is those who did so must accept the responsibility for what they have done.  And part of that is the responsibility of, in their judgement, voting for a clear bigot who purposely seeded racial and ethnic divide.   I posted in response many times to him and others leading up to the election.

They knew what a vote for Trump meant for me, for my family.  They had the right to make their own choice and judgement and they did just that.  We both not have to live with those choices.   

Unfortunately, I have seen many many many people in the same belief circle as you Koya.  But this is new to me and perhaps is the disconnect of the utmost importance.  Did you have a discussion with your friend about what a vote for Trump means to HIM?  Not trying to be a doosh, but what another person's vote represents to you means exactly nothing.  It's their vote, not yours and you pushing your meanings onto their vote is the suck.

The good news is, if you DID have this conversation and he DID confirm he was voting for Trump because he likes the racism, sexism et al, then it should be incredibly easy to cut ties.  Why would you want someone like that in your life?  Yeah, he may have pulled the wool over your eyes the last X number of years, but now you finally see who he really is.  If this is how it went down then this should be the easiest break up ever....it would be for me.

 

[cobalt_27]

Haven't read the thread but one day I hope Koya will understand that everyone that voted trump doesn't support racism. Elections are not single issue ballots. People vote how they vote for many reasons.  

The fact Koya looks differently on the people that we're going to be god parents because of how they voted says more about him than his friends.  

See, this is just patently false.  By definition, if you support Trump, you support racism.  You may not think so, but you do.  At minimum, on an implicit level, it's ok with you.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I don't know how to convey how incredibly common Koya's feelings are in the liberal bubble.  Koya's post could have been written by virtually everyone I know. 

I think it's important for those of you who live in the conservative bubble, or who don't pay attention to politics, to understand this isn't just one nutty guy going overboard. 

 

[Harry Manback]

Do you think just not letting my folks see my mixed-race kids is enough?  It doesn't feel like enough, I need to do more to let them know what a danger they are to my children and how even the mere mention of Grandma and Grandpa could alter their futures for the worse.  Ideas?

Don't worry, assuming your kids grow up smarter than you they will realize what kind of people they are in due time.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

I'm not even going to see what other people posted in this thread as I want to shoot straight from the hip; your 'plight' resonates with me because someone I'm related to and thought we were closer than brothers growing up is married to and has two kids with an African-American woman and has been almost exactly echoing your comments, and it's put an even greater strain on our dwindling relationship despite the fact that we live about 5 miles from each other and our kids go to the same school. I have my side of the story about how and why we're drifted apart, but it's irrelevant to my point in this. Anyway, I'm going to address you as if I were talking to him instead; maybe it will help, maybe it won't mean anything, but since I'm in an untenable position with him IRL, I'm going to try it this way.

First, it's almost as if the months and weeks leading up to the election ceased to exist once Trump won, and ONLY possible reason anyone would have voted for him (whether you believe me or not at this point, I proudly voted for neither) was because they agreed with his racist, sexist, etc. rhetoric. I thought he was sabotaging his own campaign with increasingly vile comments; it made me think he was tanking it to ensure Hillary won.  I too was stunned at his victory, but also saddened that everything that this campaign was about disappeared except for the racism and homophobia.  THREE MONTHS BEFORE HE EVEN GETS SWORN IN AND PEOPLE ARE ALREADY ACTING AS IF CIVIL RIGHTS HAVE BEEN REPEALED AND RACE AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION ARE NOW CRIMES.  Sorry for the all caps, but it was for emphasis.  As for the incidents of racism being reported all over social media, my range of friends covers both ends of the political spectrum, so I'm seeing a fairly equal amount of hate-driven crimes being reported from the Right as well as the Left. 

Second, despite a number of 'crimes' being carried out by supporters from both wings of the political spectrum, it seems the narrative that's sticking is the one that blames white, male Christians.  Since I guess I fit into all three of those, my question is: how do you tell the 'bad' white male Christians from the 'good' ones, and why is it okay to have prejudiced attitudes towards white male Christians?  Should I be fearful of the next 4 years not only for myself but for kids as well, as I'm bound to be mistaken for a Trump supporter, and/or my kids may face a lot of backlash and prejudice at school, and since most of the administration at my kids' school are African-American, can I fear them as well since they most likely didn't vote for Trump and could have bias towards whites? You see how it becomes a vicious circle if you want to look at it from such cut-and-dry perspectives?  As for the comment about 'trusting' this country, did you already forget about the previous 8 years?  You think there will never be another black President?

Third, I have no answer to the race issue--other than love your neighbor--and anyone who says they have the answer is selling you a bill of goods.  I think pointing to the 'increased' incidents of racism being reported as an indicator of how bad whites are is just as bad as pointing to violence perpetrated by African Americans as endemic to the entire race, and to me that's a big hurdle that needs to be overcome to improve race relations.

Finally, regarding the friends you're referring to, what has really changed, other than your perception of them, or do you think they've just been putting on a front all the time you've known them and now that Trump is President, their opportunity to treat you how they secretly really want to treat you has come at last? 

Actually, one last thing. My relationship/friendship with my cousin has been a long slow decline for at least 15 years if not longer.  I pin the start around the time my second son, after church (which both our families attended together), after literally every Sunday service, he would ask if their kids could play with him, and literally every time he asked, they said no, that they had something else to do.  Most of the time, it was to spend time with her family, and while I'm not in a position to say who they should spend time with, I would have thought they, as family (my mother's mom and his mother's mom were sisters, and our mothers were more best friends than cousins, so again there was a level of closeness already established), they would maybe set aside one Sunday afternoon if for no other reason than to appease my son.  It came to a head one year at one of their kids' birthday parties.  My parents were invited, as my cousin's parents were going to be there as well, but we weren't.  When my mother asked my cousin's wife why my kids weren't there, she told my mother "we invited family only."  That hurt, and it made me see my relationship with them in a different light, which leads to the point I'm trying to make with this story; if you and your friends are 'close', you run the risk of blindsiding them when you start to let your feelings about Trump affect your friendships. If you're going to change how you treat them, I think it's only fair to them that you're up front about it.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

I don't know how to convey how incredibly common Koya's feelings are in liberal bubble.  Koya's post could have been written by virtually everyone I know. 

I think it's important for those of you who live in the conservative bubble, or who don't pay attention to politics, to understand this isn't just one nutty guy going overboard. 

In the same light, the same could be said for those that live in their liberal bubble, with respect to understanding why what happened in the election, happened.

 

[James Daulton]

I don't know how to convey how incredibly common Koya's feelings are in the liberal bubble.  Koya's post could have been written by virtually everyone I know. 

I think it's important for those of you who live in the conservative bubble, or who don't pay attention to politics, to understand this isn't just one nutty guy going overboard. 

Oh man, get ready for a barrage of quotes followed by lots of  , references to being a cuck, and something about a safe space. 

 

[chet]

Koya--Consider this hypothetical.  A longtime family friend ends his friendship with your wife because she voted for Hillary.  He lost a son in Iraq and considers Hillary's actions to be treason.  He thinks that anyone who supports Hillary is also betraying the country that his son died protecting.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

In the same light, the same could be said for those that live in their liberal bubble, with respect to understanding why what happened in the election, happened.

Yup, I think it would be great if this were a thread where we could try to reach out and share what's happening in our bubbles.  It's tough with all the trolls though.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I don't know how to convey how incredibly common Koya's feelings are in liberal bubble.  Koya's post could have been written by virtually everyone I know. 

I think it's important for those of you who live in the conservative bubble, or who don't pay attention to politics, to understand this isn't just one nutty guy going overboard. 

Is it possible that things outside your bubble are different from what they look like from inside it?

 

[zoonation]

I better stop letting my parents (Voted Trump) see their mixed-race grandkids because of who they voted for!  Makes sense.

My God you are a tool.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Is it possible that things outside your bubble are different from what they look like from inside it?

Of course it is.  I'm just trying to address all the people that seem to think Koya is acting unreasonably to the election results.  That may be true, but there are millions of other people feeling the exact same way.  This is a bigger issue than just telling Koya to settle down.

 

[jomar]

Haven't read the thread but one day I hope Koya will understand that everyone that voted trump doesn't support racism. Elections are not single issue ballots. People vote how they vote for many reasons

here's the issue for many:  I was a Bernie supporter.  Trump could have adopted every one of Bernie's stances and he still wouldn't have got my vote.  Bernie wouldn't have gotten my vote if he did and said the things Trump said.  Issues aside, I could never vote for or support a racist/sexist/bigot.  those are disqualifying traits for many people.  for others, not so much it seems.  that can be disheartening

 

[Card Trader]

My God you are a tool.

 

[Willie Neslon]

As much as I believe his presidency is a disaster waiting to happen, there are a few things to be hopeful of.

1. He was the only Republican ever to stand on the debate stage and say something positive about Planned Parenthood. Something to the effect of "it's done a lot of good for some people". I was floored by that when he said it. At his core the guy is a Manhattan liberal (with some out there beliefs). He ran on the only side where he had a shot to win. I think at least some of his campaign rhetoric was only that.

2. Above everything else he has a deep need for approval. He wants to be loved.  He wants to go down as the greatest ever.  I don't think he's just going to try and slam through a far right agenda. He's already softened on healthcare and immigration. Alienating half the country is not something that will cement the legacy he desires.

3. He's not religious. I don't believe for a second he meant what he said about the Bible being the second best book in the world. This is a step forward for the party and politics in general. It opens the door for less religious candidates going forward. In this election it was the democrats who ended up being the party of religion. Hillary and kaine were constantly quoting scripture while Trump said I love the Bible and moved on.

4.If he's serious about getting money out of politics and changing the system in regards to lobbyists, that would be a great thing. If all he did was that, his presidency could be a success. Hillary was the candidate backed by corporate money who gave speeches to Wall Street and wouldn't even release the transcript of those speeches. She was bought and paid for long ago. Nothing would have changed under her in terms of campaign finance or big money floating in from entrenched interests.

So much scares me about what could happen under him but at least there are some potential positives as well. The democratic party can now clean house, regroup and come back stronger. Even though they lost this election maybe it'll be yuuuuge positive in the long run.