GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Frankly, the Patriots could start the season with the worst group of pass catchers in the NFL.
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Aaron Hernandez arrested -- Patriots Release Hernandez (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
I don't like the Patriots. I find them a generally annoying and unpleasant-to-hear-about franchise. I don't like Brady, I don't like Belichik, I think many NE-based fans are intentionally obnoxious.
But hats off to the franchise for first waiting for the arrest to formally take place, and then dumping Hernandez immdiately. It doesn't matter what their lawyers tell them. Most franchises would have waited, since there is no material benefit from cutting immediately. The Patriots claim their 'way' is somehow special, but at least on this occassion I think they live up to the claim.
But hats off to the franchise for first waiting for the arrest to formally take place, and then dumping Hernandez immdiately. It doesn't matter what their lawyers tell them. Most franchises would have waited, since there is no material benefit from cutting immediately. The Patriots claim their 'way' is somehow special, but at least on this occassion I think they live up to the claim.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
No Hernandez, No Welker, injured Gronk...... Im avoiding Pats in all formats, they will be WAY overdrafted based on past performance.
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Sarnoff
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
KGB
Footballguy
lynx4ben
Footballguy
mikel0254
Footballguy
I'll take Gronk. He might miss a few games, but if it's just him and Danny A catching passes from Brady, sign me up.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Patriot players will be drafted higher than they should be. People will think you can just plug Amendola in for Welker and he is the new Welker. People think Brady will continue to be a top performer regardless of players available. They will assume Gronk will be ok.
Hope that clarifies any confusion you had. If it does not feel free to PM me.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
For the most part I agree with you--although for me personally--this string of news does make Ridley look more attractive to me. It almost guarantees that the Pats will have to make their running game a big part of their offense.
Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Every NFL contract should from now on have " if you kill somebody - you don't get your money "
Cap implications.
http://overthecap.com/patriots-release-aaron-hernandez-some-cap-related-thoughts/
From his first article on the matter, the Patriots would have had MUCH more cap flexibility by waiting for the legal proceedings to play out or for Goodell to suspend him. The outright release limits their options and narrows the cards that they can play to recoup the bonus money already paid.
Throughout his two articles he's basically saying they took a moral stance and that could hurt their cap. I'm not sure it was the right move, either, but the Pats (more than any other team) seem to have a culture of accountability and want to keep that culture in tact.
http://overthecap.com/patriots-release-aaron-hernandez-some-cap-related-thoughts/
From his first article on the matter, the Patriots would have had MUCH more cap flexibility by waiting for the legal proceedings to play out or for Goodell to suspend him. The outright release limits their options and narrows the cards that they can play to recoup the bonus money already paid.
Throughout his two articles he's basically saying they took a moral stance and that could hurt their cap. I'm not sure it was the right move, either, but the Pats (more than any other team) seem to have a culture of accountability and want to keep that culture in tact.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Who knows if Kraft and Goodell had spoken at length about this and there was already an agreement in place for cap relief if the Pats cut him.
Backside Pursuit
Footballguy
Legally, they would be on very shaky grounds. Regardless of whatever happens subsequently, at the time of his release, AH was not guilty of anything. Presumption of innocence is not just a feel-good idea. In any other profession, if he is subsequently exonerated, he could sue for wrongful termination. The Patriots basically released him for reasons unrelated to job performance. (I'm not saying they did the wrong thing. I'm simply saying that from a legal standpoint they have no right to "recoup" any money.) It's fine that they cut him, but the Pats have got to eat the money on this. If they don't, collusion (with Goodell) will be inferred and that's a whole other legal mess.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
AH has no ability to complain about anything. It is within the an NFL team's rights to cut a player at any time. How that roster maneuver then gets reported and worked out is between the league and the Patriots, not Hernandez. Teams do not have to give any explanation why they release a player. None. There is no such thing as wrongful termination. Hernandez could have saved a bus full of kids from drowning and the Pats could have cut him and he would have had no recourse.
If Kraft went to Goodell and said the Pats could not handle the P.R. hit in continuing to roster Hernandez until things played out more, Goodell could have told Kraft it was ok to release him and the league figure out how to get NE cap relief for the salary cap hit at a later date. I'm not saying that actually happened, but I suggest there was a decent chance there was some discussion about how to go about it.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Ross Tucker@RossTuckerNFL1h
Aaron Hernandez got a $12.5M signing bonus in August. Likely biggest cap hit for a team ever.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
No way does the NFL do something special to help the Pats cap-wise. That would be a total violation of the CBA. Especially since the new CBA actually punishes team when they have too many players get in trouble. The Pats drafted Hernandez despite knowing his character questions, reaped the rewards for a few years and must now pay the penalty.
You're correct about that - presumption of innocence in not just a feel good idea, buts its application is limited to a court of law.
It has no application in the workplace.
Wrongful termination is not an option here - or in most cases where someone is terminated.
Backside Pursuit
Footballguy
Agree with the first paragraph 100%. I'm right there with you.
As for the second paragraph, I would have very big problems if anything like that happened (and so would the NFLPA and so should every other team in the league) and I would suggest that even a hint of such a collusive scenario would open the league to potential legal action.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
"They bought their tickets. They knew what they were getting into. I say let 'em crash".
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The issue will be what the league will do, if anything, about signing bonus that was not paid out yet for Hernandez. Had they actually paid him the money already, I agree that the league would likely say tough noogies. However, since they spaced out his bonuses, I am not sure if they will allow them any cap relief for things that were set to be future payments.
Also, since most players are never attached to a murder investigation, there's nothing to say the league could not make a determination or request a vote on the matter based on special circumstances.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
My opinion with absolutely no proof: I think they have evidence he tampered/destroyed evidence. That makes him a P2 to my knowledge.
I doubt he actually killed someone though. I think he is protecting someone from his childhood and his loyalty is his downfall.
I doubt he actually killed someone though. I think he is protecting someone from his childhood and his loyalty is his downfall.
cstu
Footballguy
It stands to reason that Goodell would be supportive of having Hernandez off the Patriots roster and therefore would have worked something out with Kraft if he was willing to cut him quickly.
cstu
Footballguy
He's one of three people who likely did kill someone and there's enough circumstantial evidence to convict him if no one else is ID'ed as the killer.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Why, because he used to catch passes from Tom Brady? Someone pulled the trigger and he's one of the 3 most likely suspects at this point.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Because he had everything to lose. With all the NFL safeguards, I have to believe he would be conscious of the damages to himself, his family and everyone he loves.
Again, this is without knowing any of the evidence, just from what we heard in the news.
EDIT TO ADD: Just saw arrest scene and heard that his lawyer was not notified prior to the arrest. They are talking on NFL channel as if it seems like a serious charge.
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Anarchy... no where where in any of your recent opinion posts do you come close to factual statements regarding cap implications. You're just saying random things of what they should do, none of which have a legal basis. Please stop.
There are very strict rules about what happens with dollar values on the cap regardless of whether it has been paid out or not, and other rules about how a team can recoup already paid out bonus dollars, then whether the recouped dollars get put back on current year cap or future caps. It's very complex and you are grossly simplifying the process with your comments.
The fact of the matter is that the Pats had much greater flexibility with the cap if they had waited for the legal proceedings to occur or for Goodel to hand out the suspension. Legally they would have been in a better position to recoup the dollars on current year cap and provide immediate relief to the situation. The way it stands now, Hernadez's signing bonus accelerates to the current year and they have to wait for legal approval to recoup the money and provide relief. If they had left it alone, there would be more cap space available for 2013 until the process finished. This doesn't help the team's cap situation at all and could prove more difficult in the future to recoup any signing bonus money, so I am perplexed why they would release him so early in the process.
The cap is everything... if you don't have a healthy cap you are not going to compete, and the next few years (and last years of Brady) could be hindered because they didn't handle the Hernandez situation as well as they could have handled it.
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GregR
Footballguy
The rules are pretty straightforward... with only a few exceptions (like medical insurance), a dollar that you pay the player has to hit your salary cap at some point. If it was going to hit the cap for you in the future, then if you release him it hits immediately (or is split over 2 years if a post-June 1 release).
There's no way this should be treated any differently than the Falcons with Vick, the Titans with Pacman Jones, etc, who all followed the rules. If the contract lets them out of paying that money then it won't hit the cap. If it hits the cap now but they later win the money back in court, they'd get an adjustment added back in for it when that happens.
BroadwayG
Footballguy
Some guys just don't understand the ramifications of their actions. There has already been 10 dudes suspended for substance abuse already this year. Is it that hard not to smoke dope or take codeine? You'd think not, but some guys do it anyway when millions of dollars are on the line.
I don't get the Jets part.
Backside Pursuit
Footballguy
It is applicable if the contract signed by the employer/employee includes a personal conduct clause exempting the employer from payment. Again, at the time of his release, AH was not guilty of anything. This is all that I am attempting to say (and saying very poorly, apparently). If the Patriots had waited for some sort of judgment, I would be in favor of them recouping some of the money tied up in this contract. They chose not to wait (bully for them) and now they have to eat the money. Period. They would be on very shaky legal grounds if they later attempt to wiggle out of some of their legal (contractual) obligations and responsibilities just because AH is convicted and/or suspended. The timing of this prevents them from ever recovering that money.
Tackling Dummies
Footballguy
CentralPA
Footballguy
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Didn't read a word you wrote but I love your avatar.
The Patriots did the wrong financial business move but the "right" move from a ethical and human point of view. Families are mourning their murdered son or brother. Its may have ramifications on the cap, but the move certainly generated goodwill with me. I wonder the effect on the locker room. I have seen motivated teams with good QBs do more with less.
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Backside Pursuit
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I still don't get this. Vereen takes over for Woodhead. I don't see him running the football more, and I don't see him becoming a WR. What am I missing? He's still a 75-100 carry back with 40-50 receptions.
EBF
Footballguy
This is one of the craziest offseason stories that I can remember. Also crazy that it happened to a high profile player and not some random scrub.
I feel no sympathy for this guy. Sounds like a real idiot and a scumbag. You're sitting on a 40 million dollar contract and you can't stay out of trouble?
I feel no sympathy for this guy. Sounds like a real idiot and a scumbag. You're sitting on a 40 million dollar contract and you can't stay out of trouble?
David Dodds
Administrator
Regardless of what the "supposed" cap hit is supposed to be, I doubt it plays out like that. New England has a tight window to win in with Brady. As much as they may want to do the right thing, NFL teams main goals are trying to win.
Without any evidence at all, I am stating that Roger Goodell and the Patriots have a gentleman's agreement to handle this as if he is released AFTER the conviction.
Without any evidence at all, I am stating that Roger Goodell and the Patriots have a gentleman's agreement to handle this as if he is released AFTER the conviction.
cstu
Footballguy
Unless I'm mistaken he's the highest profile active offensive player to be charged with a serious crime. For the FF community the the biggest criminal case I can remember.This is one of the craziest offseason stories that I can remember. Also crazy that it happened to a high profile player and not some random scrub.
I feel no sympathy for this guy. Sounds like a real idiot and a scumbag. You're sitting on a 40 million dollar contract and you can't stay out of trouble?
Edit: Stay out of trouble? How about just not shooting people?
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I don't think Goodell has any authority to do any such thing. Why should the Patriots get any benefit here when they drafted the guy knowing he had character issues? They only released him when it was clear he would no longer be an asset.
Like I said in another thread, it was reported early on that the Pats neglected to include a standard clause that allows teams to recover money in circumstances like this. If that's true, then it may not have even mattered when they released him.
Cenobite
Footballguy
Rae Carruth disagreesUnless I'm mistaken he's the highest profile active offensive player to be charged with a serious crime. For the FF community the the biggest criminal case I can remember.This is one of the craziest offseason stories that I can remember. Also crazy that it happened to a high profile player and not some random scrub.
I feel no sympathy for this guy. Sounds like a real idiot and a scumbag. You're sitting on a 40 million dollar contract and you can't stay out of trouble?
Edit: Stay out of trouble? How about just not shooting people?
cstu
Footballguy
It's in the best interests of the NFL for him to be released so I think Goodell would be within his rights as commish to work out something that benefits the league.
Not a chance. The CBA is the CBA and the rules are the rules. The cap is the most important number for a franchise, you don't just allow modifications to it for random teams.
Sean Taylor died and the Redskins got no cap relief. No way the Patriots are getting it for having this imbecile on their books.
