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ACDF surgery, potentially from "text neck" (1 Viewer)

Hooper31

Footballguy
Anyone else been down this road? Looking forward to your nightmare stories.

I have a severe stenosis between C6 and C7 (ruptured/bulging disc). Spent several months with killer nerve pain in my left shoulder and down my left arm.

Super excited to have my throat slashed and spinal cord bolted with titanium tomorrow morning.

LINK

Thinking this is similar to the procedure Peyton Manning had done. So my NFL prospects are still there. I got that going for me, which is nice. However, I've been on steroids now for few months. Hoping that won't show up in any future tests I have to take at a combine.

EDIT: Updated thread with a detailed list of questions after post-op meeting with doctor. Have since learned about the rise in "text neck" problems that people are having. Its worth looking into. I certainly fit the description of a guy that's married to my phone and use it a ton. I don't know if the text-neck thing is real, but it makes a lot of sense.

 
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I have been in on over 1000 of these types of surgeries. NO ####! I worked with a group of neuro surgeons for years. What questions do you have?

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
I have been in on over 1000 of these types of surgeries. NO ####! I worked with a group of neuro surgeons for years. What questions do you have?
Odds of survival? Keep in mind I'm a long time FBG.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
The recovery is quick, 2 weeks you can be back at work if you want, but you can milk it for longer.
Planning on being back to my classroom in 5 days. :unsure:

 
Too soon... You need a bare minimum of a week to take it easy. You'll still have the bandages on your neck. If memory serves correct, those were on for like 5 days and the stitches came out 12 days or so later.

 
Too soon... You need a bare minimum of a week to take it easy. You'll still have the bandages on your neck. If memory serves correct, those were on for like 5 days and the stitches came out 12 days or so later.
We'll see. I just have to be able to sit in a chair and give a few lectures while taking some questions. I've got a microphone and speakers. Voice is my only real concern. Problem is I teach two AP classes. Not like I can find a sub. We can't get behind schedule. Test days in May are fixed.

 
Your throat will hurt, almost a guarantee... They're cutting it open, moving everrything around, and shoving a breathing tube in there for 1.5 hours. Don't get me wrong, you'll be okay, but giving a lecture 5 days later might be tough.

ETA: everyone's experience is different, I'm just basing this off mine.

 
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Your throat will hurt, almost a guarantee... They're cutting it open, moving everrything around, and shoving a breathing tube in there for 1.5 hours. Don't get me wrong, you'll be okay, but giving a lecture 5 days later might be tough.

ETA: everyone's experience is different, I'm just basing this off mine.
Guessing I should cancel that tee time next weekend. :kicksrock:

 
You're German, you don't know funny. You do know slashing throats (see WWI & WWII)

Good luck GB :obc: will be tipping one for you :thumbup:

 
Your throat will hurt, almost a guarantee... They're cutting it open, moving everrything around, and shoving a breathing tube in there for 1.5 hours. Don't get me wrong, you'll be okay, but giving a lecture 5 days later might be tough.

ETA: everyone's experience is different, I'm just basing this off mine.
Guessing I should cancel that tee time next weekend. :kicksrock:
You'll be okay... It'll be worth it when the nerve damage begins to heal. You'll feel much better.Good luck!

 
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Sorry just saw this thread again. You will be fine, this is a pretty simple procedure from the surgeons POV. I think that if you are sitting down you will be able to continue working as soon as you want. Just ask the surgeon. Usually if you are feeling ok to resume AODL (activities of daily living) you are good to go.

 
All went well except for a slight scare. Will share details tomorrow. Thanks for the well wishes, fellas.

:)

 
fantasycurse42 said:
You wake up with a tube from your throat with blood dripping out of it? This freaked me out, but I was told standard operating procedure, the morphine calmed me down too. You should feel instant nerve pain relief, however it may be slightly masked by all of the other pain.

I think I ####### jinxed myself in this thread! I did something in the gym today and my neck and left shoulder blade are ####### killing me. I know the nerve pain feeling and this is it :kicksrock: hoping I just irritated the nerve and nothing worse!

Anyways, hope the recovery is moving along smoothly.
Is it really smart to be lifting such heavy weight when you've had spine issues?

 
Home and settled in. Here's the full story...

** Cliff's Notes at end **

CHIROPRACTOR PART 1: Had some minor back problems earlier this year. Saw a chiropractor for the first time. Great success with lower back. He tweaked me a bit and gave me some advice about the lumbar issue I was having. I was sceptical about seeing a chiropractor at first, but after this I was convinced chiropractors weren't just witch doctors.

ONSET OF NERVE ISSUES: Was hitting golf balls at the range in late June midweek. Started to feel some pain behind my left shoulder. Figured it was muscular and didn't even finish hitting the bucket I had paid for.

Was supposed to play in a tournament that Saturday followed by a golf trip to Spokane the week after. Got through about 14 holes in the tourney and started to really hurt in the shoulder. Toughed it out and made it back to the clubhouse. Was going through the scorecard with a buddy and remember saying to him, "Something is really wrong here".

Spent the next day in car driving to Spokane across Washington state. Was uncomfortable, but not as much pain as I had at the tourney. Was supposed to have a Monday tee time. Again, toughed it out with similar results. Pain came back and regretted playing after about 14 holes.

Spent the next four days in a conference. Horrible pain all week that started to work its way down my left arm and into my left hand. Pointer and middle finger were numb with pins and needles all four days. Drove home feel pretty bad during the 6 hours in the car. Couldn't get comfortable at all. Left arm and shoulder were just killing me. The worst pain was waking up in the morning. Trying to put on my socks was excruciating.

CHIROPRACTOR PART 2: Great success with the guy the first time around, figured why not again? He immediately told me I was likely pinching either the median or ulnar nerve, but wrongly assumed it was a muscle issue in my neck or shoulder. Twisted me a bit and sent to physical therapy. Physical therapist also assumed this was a muscle issue. Both were horribly wrong. Chiropractor had me take an X-ray and told me it looked great. No problems. Must be muscular issue. Spent about a month going to physical therapy and showing no improvement. After all of this a good friend of mine that's a nurse suggested I get an MRI. So I got back to the chiropractor and tell him I want to get an MRI. He says sure, but I could tell right off the bat he was out of his element. He should of told me to go see my primary doctor as this was something he wasn't used to dealing with, but he sort of winged it. He didn't know that I had to get it approved by my insurance first. He gave me a blank form and told me to call the number on it to set up the appointment. He didn't say anything about insurance or seem to have the first clue about how to get my insurance to approve it. The day of the appointment I get a call from the imagining place telling me the appointment has been canceled because it needed insurance approval. Immediately I knew I ####ed up by trusting the chiropractor. Damn.

PRIMARY CARE DOCTOR: Made an appointment that same day to see my primary care doctor. He immediately knew what was wrong and fast tracked me into an MRI the following week. MRI showed I had a rather severe stenosis (disc out of whack) between C6 and C7. Got a phone call the next day and the radiologist described to pictures to me. Told me my disk in that area had blown nearly all the way out and was jammed in the hole on the left side where the nerve comes out. Nerve was being compressed causing all the pain. Mind you, I'm dying on a daily basis with arm pain and numbness. Onto the specialist.

SPINE SPECIALIST: Sat down the following week with the spine doctor and he showed me the pics. Told me I had options. We can schedule an ACDF (pic above in first post) right away to take care of this. I'm thinking great, lets do this. Find out I have to schedule it at least a month away if I want to do it on a Friday so I don't miss as much school...

SCHOOL SITUATION: I teach advanced placement classes. They're electives. I have to do a bit of sales to convince kids to take these classes and keep them full enough to offer them. I teach in a small school. We graduate about 100 kids per year. Part of the sales job is that I have to sell me. Its not like I can miss a lot of time and we can easily find a sub to just take over. The testing days for kids to determine whether or not they earn college credit are fixed in May. We can't afford to fall behind. So when I talk to the doctor about this he tells me he thinks I can likely be back in front of my class in 5 days. We look ahead in the calendar and see veteran's day weekend and figure its perfect. I'll miss two class days and its far enough out I can plan around it to give tests and review days. So its been about three months dealing with this all together and I don't want to sit around in pain for another month so the doctor tells me about...

STEROIDS: Holy ####. Miracle drug. Within three days steroids completely wiped out my pain (this was early October). It was amazing. It was transforming. They put me on a regiment of roids that would taper off in a week (prednisone). My pain totally disappeared. We're talking life changing here. Nurse and doctor both tell me its not a shocker and that they will wear off in about a month and my pain would return. I get the whole sports and performance enhancing angle now. The steroids reduce swelling and promote healing to extreme degrees. Guys taking these can rebound so much quicker after a work out. Again, holy ####.

A WEEK BEFORE SURGERY: I have my pre-op meeting with Doctor. He tells me all the nutty things that can go wrong and all the weird side effects that are possible. Totally a cover your ### type of thing. I get it. They are required to disclose this. I wasn't too worried about that though. The thing I was worried about was that I was feeling GREAT over the past three to four weeks. I even golfed a ton. Seriously, steroids are the ####. No pain. No symptoms. I'm really debating this surgery. I'm convinced I can just roid it up again and put it off until the two week break at Christmas. Doctor advises against it tell me that another month of roids can be pretty damaging. They really have to overload you with these things to get the swelling to go down and relieve the pain. Crap. Oh well, onto surgery...

SURGERY DAY: Checked in at 5:30am on Friday. Had to strip down and get in the butt showing robe. Of course my admitting nurse is young and hot. Great. Worse, she knows it. Trying hard to tuck the growing issue between my legs. A bit unsuccessfully, but managed to keep that imagine of the ugly chick from college in my mind. Meet the anesthesiologist and assisting nurses. Sit around for an hour before getting wheeled into operating room. WIthin minutes I'm out cold. Man, they knock you out quickly. I guess it makes sense. They don't want you getting all panic stricken in there.

Wake up to the hottie again in post op. Feel the wound on the front of my lower neck. Surprisingly no pain in the spine, but hey, what's that feeling? Holy ####. Pain had 100% returned to my shoulder, bicep, forearm, and my ####### hand and fingers are numb again. No ####. I just went from a month of no pain to have an operation that brought it all back. No way. Of course the nurse asks where it hurts. I tell her the details. She tells me, "Well, that sort of sucks". I'm thinking WTF? Really? Another nurse sort of barges in to say that it might be expected. When an impinged nerve is severely compressed it can swell up quite a bit when the impingement is removed. Great, but what does the doctor have to say about this...

Started feeling better as the day wore on. Fell asleep a few times. Around 6:00 a group of friends show up to hang out with me for a bit. At this point I'm feeling great. Perhaps they just lifted my spirits, but the pain is really fading. Also, I've got almost no pain from the procedure. They just put four titanium screws in my spine. Shouldn't that hurt? And I had received very little pain medication. What gives?

TODAY: Doctor shows up and fills me in. Tells me the nerve pain coming back is expected for a few days. Just over 24 hours I can tell its slowly dissipating. Also tells me that there are no nerves in the upper cervical spine, so putting screws in the vertebrae isn't something that should hurt. Sweet. He opted to use a "cage" instead of a cadaver bone. There's some good examples pictured here. He used some material from my hip to fill it up. In his opinion it fuses quicker and has a better shot at jiving with my own bone material because it came from me. I'm good with all that. Also, he had the procedure done on his own neck and that was what he chose for himself.

Started to cough a bit during the day and pulling up some phlegm. Hurts my upper chest area quite a bit where the plastic tube was inserted during operation. Neck is actually feeling pretty good. Getting ready to crash tonight. Was able to make it through the day taking only Tylenol. Going to drop a Valium and a Percocet. Hoping that will help me sleep. Starting to feel the soreness in my upper chest and upper back between the shoulder blades. Not where I expected to feel it.

That's the long version. Figure that perhaps someone else might need the procedure and would like to read about the experience.

CLIFFS:

Trusted chiropractor too much

Spent extra two months in pain

Went to primary care guy

MRI revealed spinal stenosis

Steroids completely removed all pain for a month

Went through with surgery anyway

Regretted it for about an hour when pain came back

Doctor filled me in and assured me I did the right thing

On the way to long term recovery

Wondering when I will next hit a golf ball

 
fantasycurse42 said:
You wake up with a tube from your throat with blood dripping out of it? This freaked me out, but I was told standard operating procedure, the morphine calmed me down too. You should feel instant nerve pain relief, however it may be slightly masked by all of the other pain.

I think I ####### jinxed myself in this thread! I did something in the gym today and my neck and left shoulder blade are ####### killing me. I know the nerve pain feeling and this is it :kicksrock: hoping I just irritated the nerve and nothing worse!

Anyways, hope the recovery is moving along smoothly.
Is it really smart to be lifting such heavy weight when you've had spine issues?
I don't think its that big of a deal. Manning is getting rocked by 300 pound monsters and seems to be okay. Also, once 6 months roll by the fusion of the new bone material is supposed to be solid just like the original.

 
Update: just documenting for myself and for others that might need to head down this path. The procedure is gaining popularity rapidly. The concept of "text neck" may be associated to modern technology. The more we sit in front of handhelds and bend forward at the neck could be leading to a dramatic rise in neck disc issues. I certainly fit this description in the way I use my phone. I plan to update the title of the thread to warn folks about this rapidly growing problem.

Two weeks out now from surgery. Went back to work five days after surgery (Not horribly physical - I'm teaching high school). Didn't really have pain, but would describe it as just being uncomfortable. The majority of this was in the upper chest and between the shoulder blades in back. Took Percocet through first three days and then backed it off to Tylenol. Was prescribed Valium for possible muscle spasms, but didn't need it.

Had two week post op visit with doctor yesterday. Went way better than I expected. Had a long list of questions that I had written down. Here are some of the highlights.

1. Future impact on neighboring discs?

Unknown. The evolution of this surgery has evolved quite a bit over the past 25 years of experience that my doctor has. He took me through the different approaches from when he started up until now. The "cage" method is fairly new and looks very promising. Discectomy (removing a disc from between the vertebrae) and replacing it with box that looks like this has only been widely done less than 10 years. The percentage of people that have had to have a second procedure to deal with the initial condition is fairly low compared to the older methods. Listening to him describe the "old" procedure of removing a disc and just squishing the discs together and letting them fuse themselves slowly into one bone sounded horrible with potentially year long recoveries. Long term? 20 years? 30 years? We can't know. I guess we're sort of guinea pigs at the moment, but I'm feeling confident I did the right thing.

2. Impact of metal on potential future MRIs?

Hadn't considered this until afterwards, but luckily its not a problem. The cage is made of a material called "peek" and the plating and titanium screws are MRI safe. Good to go here.

3. Specific materials and their composition utilized?

Explained above.

4. Hip never hurt at all, did he use marrow from there?

Yes, they did use some marrow, but not as much as they normally do. The hole that my nerve goes through had calcified narrowing the gap even more. Doctor described it as having to roto-rooter out the area. They saved all this material to help fill the peek cage so they didn't need much marrow from the hip. Over time this material will solidify into bone fusing the c6 and c7 vertebrae into a single unit. I don't have to worry about it staying in place in the short term of moving around too much due to the screws and plate they used to link c6 and c7.

5. Expectations/explanations of nerve reactions short and long term?

The day after surgery my nerve went nuts in my left shoulder and down my left arm into my hand. I hadn't had pain there of any kind for weeks due to the steroids, but holy crap did it come back with a vengeance. Immediately I'm thinking "WTF"? Why did I do this again? Two weeks later I can say I'm glad I did it. Never pain is gone. Only feel a tingle in my pointer and middle finger now and then. Doctor told me this could last quite a while. Nerves heal VERY slowly. Potentially a year for some of the worst cases. Making matters worse he had to manipulate my nerve quite a bit to get it out of the way while he opened up the hole. Even before I woke from surgery he told my wife this immediate return of pain was to be expected and would be temporary.

6. Scar swelling at point of incision. What to expect?

Scar is still swelled up quite a bit. Feels like there's a shoelace imbedded just under the skin along a line of about 4 inches. Doctor told me this was due to the sutures that are just under the skin. They used a sort of super-glue material to seal it up. The sutures will dissolve over time and it will return to being flat again. Also, he says I will have a hard time even locating the scar a year later. Even better, the scar is just below the line of a t-shirt. c6 and c7 are fairly low on the spine meaning my incision was low compared to others that have work done higher up the chain.

7. Explanation of the location of the discomfort in front and back. Not what I expected.

Surprised to learn that this is all muscle pain. I feel nothing with regard to the screws they put into my spine. Doctor told me there's virtually no nerve endings in those bones so you just don't feel them at all. The cage they inserted pushed the vertebrae apart far enough that my muscles in the upper chest and back have been shifted. They're getting used to being in a slightly new place. I can't really call it pain, but that uncomfortableness will subside soon.

8. What's the smartest thing for me to be doing now?

Do the physical therapy suggestions. Try to maintain solid posture moving forward. This is a really challenge for me sitting in front of a keyboard and slouching in front of the TV. So easy to fall back into bad habits.

9. What's the dumbest thing for me to be doing now?

Fall down. Seriously, I have to be careful about this. Doctor tells me that people get comfortable way too fast now and think they don't have to be careful. Other than that I suggest I don't lift anything heavy, especially over my head.

10. When can I swing a golf club?

Now. No ####. He tells me that the c6/c7 combination is low enough that swinging a club won't affect that area. They're locked together with the screws and plating so its not like I can #### things up. Over time the bones will fuse. He says go for it. This really surprised me. I was thinking I would have to wait months. Cool. Thinking I might be able to get on a course next Wednesday afternoon. Doctor tells me I can expect to be a bit sore, but that's part of healing and getting back into normal activity. Again, ####### cool.

FInal thoughts: Glad I had this done. Nerve pain just coming from seemingly nowhere running down your arm sucks. Seriously, I never want that debilitating pain again where I couldn't use my arm to put on a sock. Advancements in modern medical science is ####### amazing. Fairly invasive spinal surgery, and nearly two weeks later I'm back in the swing. Amazing.

 
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You mentioned middle aged in the other thread, just some warnings hopefully your doctor touched on:

Adjacent disc disorder is a statistical probability for someone at that age... Really hope you stuck to your rehab frequently to try and fight those cold hard stats, hopefully your surgeon gave you the figures behind that, most don't, but hopefully yours did. When that stenosis hits and fusing a second disc, oooff, wouldn't wish that on my enemies. Typically 5-6 years out (after the first fusion when done to any disc in the C3-C6 range) for a middle aged guy... I hope your prognosis turns out positive GB, you should savor that time on course, store those memories.

As an alternative, just in case you do run into trouble, you should look into disc replacement. Insurance wouldn't normally cover it, def not if you've already had a fusion, but you can get it done for about $100k, I think most teachers can swing that. Good luck dude.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963057/

some good reading here with data/case studies related to age. Good luck :thumbup:

 
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