ACL tear on same knee in consecutive years (1 Viewer)

[football fan]

What if any player experiences an ACL tear on same knee in consecutive years?

Is that a career killer, or what would it take to come back from it?

This question really applies to any player who has or will have this experience, but I will use Cornelius Ingram, TE, Philadelphia Eagles as an example to debate and discuss this issue because he has a ton of talent and upside, but credible fantasy footall sources question Ingram's work ethic. He is also the only example that I know of that has experienced this injury on the same knee in two consecutive years.

I would like to know if other examples exists, so I can research what happened to those players.

All discussion is welcomed because I am looking for information!

 

[Knobs]

Frank Gore doesn't quite fit your criteria but imo he's close.

Didn't Ronald Curry have back to back ACL tears? I would think the years missed from the injury would be as problematic as the injury itself. At a certain point, unless you were an extremely high draft pick, I think your chances would be missed. Three or more years gone from injury without ever proving yourself in the pros is an awfully long time.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

What if any player experiences an ACL tear on same knee in consecutive years?Is that a career killer, or what would it take to come back from it?This question really applies to any player who has or will have this experience, but I will use Cornelius Ingram, TE, Philadelphia Eagles as an example to debate and discuss this issue because he has a ton of talent and upside, but credible fantasy footall sources question Ingram's work ethic. He is also the only example that I know of that has experienced this injury on the same knee in two consecutive years.I would like to know if other examples exists, so I can research what happened to those players. All discussion is welcomed because I am looking for information!

I can't recall a player that had an ACL tear on the same knee in consecutive years - the closest I can remember is Terry Allen coming back from an ACL tear in both knees. There have been some studies that put an NFL player coming back from ACL surgery (borderline talent excluded) at around 80%. That being said- this injury may be the kiss of death for Ingram though as he is now two years removed from playing football at a competitive level (missing his senior year and his rookie NFL season). Add in the fact that it usually takes players a full season back before the return to "original" form and you are looking at close to three years. Can't say it is impossible, but the kid has more than his work cut out for him and that is provided the Eagles even keep him on the roster.

 

[thehornet]

it is not a career killer because they can repair the ligaments the same way. I would say that the rehab becomes more strenous each time and you need to work harder to gain the stregth back in your knee to cope with the multiple surgeries. This is not a degenerative condition like Bo Jackson's hip. If you fix it, then it isnt going to continue to worsen if it was propoerly fixed.

 

[Penguin]

Didn't Ronald Curry have back to back ACL tears?

Achilles tendon

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Actually, two current Falcons have had this happen to them.

Brian Finneran - ACL tear to the same knee in 2006 & 2007.

Trey Lewis - as a rookie DT in 2007, tore his ACL in a game in 2007. During the off-season, and while he was still in the rehab phase of his recovery, he slipped coming down some stairs and tore it again.

 

[ATC1]

Duece had it in both knees. Not sure about the same knee, but it does happen. The only problem I see is that the drill holes used in the first one can not be used in the 2nd surgery. So, the optimal spot for the reconstructed ligament is not available the 2nd time around.

Does that make the knee less stable, does that mean he will lose some function, will the multiple drill holes cause more degenerative problems? I have no idea.

 

[zed2283]

Duece had it in both knees. Not sure about the same knee, but it does happen. The only problem I see is that the drill holes used in the first one can not be used in the 2nd surgery. So, the optimal spot for the reconstructed ligament is not available the 2nd time around. Does that make the knee less stable, does that mean he will lose some function, will the multiple drill holes cause more degenerative problems? I have no idea.

I don't believe that is the case. I had my second ACL reconstruction last year and I think they used the same holes.Or are you saying that ACL injuries in consecutive years does not give the bone time to fill in?

 

[ATC1]

Duece had it in both knees. Not sure about the same knee, but it does happen. The only problem I see is that the drill holes used in the first one can not be used in the 2nd surgery. So, the optimal spot for the reconstructed ligament is not available the 2nd time around. Does that make the knee less stable, does that mean he will lose some function, will the multiple drill holes cause more degenerative problems? I have no idea.

I don't believe that is the case. I had my second ACL reconstruction last year and I think they used the same holes.Or are you saying that ACL injuries in consecutive years does not give the bone time to fill in?

If your reconstruction fails, I just don't think you would want to unscrew the support in the bone and just screw the new one back in the same hole. That's like using the same hole in a leg of a wooden chair that has failed before.

 

[Mark Wimer]

On the plus side, Ingram is still very young and his body's recuperative powers are better than a player of advanced age, like Brian Finneran.

But as many have pointed out, Ingram will have been out of football for 2 years by next training camp, and the knee may not be 100% for up to a year after that. So he's definitely got a long road ahead of him before he is likely to be an impact player in the NFL. Could he still have a career? Yes, I think so. Could his career be an elite career like Tony Gonzalez's or Antonio Gates'? The second scenario is more problematic IMO.

 

[zed2283]

Duece had it in both knees. Not sure about the same knee, but it does happen. The only problem I see is that the drill holes used in the first one can not be used in the 2nd surgery. So, the optimal spot for the reconstructed ligament is not available the 2nd time around. Does that make the knee less stable, does that mean he will lose some function, will the multiple drill holes cause more degenerative problems? I have no idea.

I don't believe that is the case. I had my second ACL reconstruction last year and I think they used the same holes.Or are you saying that ACL injuries in consecutive years does not give the bone time to fill in?

If your reconstruction fails, I just don't think you would want to unscrew the support in the bone and just screw the new one back in the same hole. That's like using the same hole in a leg of a wooden chair that has failed before.

I'm not a doctor, but I would say that if the reconstruction fails, it would be the ligament graft itself that fails, not the screw pulling out of the bone.

 

[Defending Champs]

I was thinking Jamal Anderson had multiple ACL's, maybe two separate knee's, that was about it for him.

 

[Carver]

What about Correll Buckhalter? Didnt he have 2 tears in the same knee back to back?

 

[Memphis Mutiny]

Yatil Devon Green (born November 25, 1973 in Gainesville, Florida) is a former professional American football player. A 6'2", 205 lbs. wide receiver from the University of Miami, he was selected by the Miami Dolphins in the 1st round (15th overall pick) of the 1997 NFL Draft.

On the very first day of training camp, Green tore his quadriceps muscles, anterior cruciate ligament and cartilage in his right knee. Green came back the next year and again tore the same ACL in training camp. In his third and only season playing, 1999, he played in 9 games catching 18 receptions for 234 yards and no touchdowns. After three years and a total of 10 surgeries on his right knee, he was cut by the Dolphins after the 1999 year was and signed by the New York Jets, but never played a down and was cut during the season. The following year he signed with the Oakland Raiders but was cut during preseason.

It's not a good situation for Ingram.

 

[thehornet]

Yatil Devon Green (born November 25, 1973 in Gainesville, Florida) is a former professional American football player. A 6'2", 205 lbs. wide receiver from the University of Miami, he was selected by the Miami Dolphins in the 1st round (15th overall pick) of the 1997 NFL Draft.

On the very first day of training camp, Green tore his quadriceps muscles, anterior cruciate ligament and cartilage in his right knee. Green came back the next year and again tore the same ACL in training camp. In his third and only season playing, 1999, he played in 9 games catching 18 receptions for 234 yards and no touchdowns. After three years and a total of 10 surgeries on his right knee, he was cut by the Dolphins after the 1999 year was and signed by the New York Jets, but never played a down and was cut during the season. The following year he signed with the Oakland Raiders but was cut during preseason.

It's not a good situation for Ingram.

It's good for Ingram that his scenario is nothing like the most extreme scenario you mentioned.

 

[tdmills]

I was thinking Jamal Anderson had multiple ACL's, maybe two separate knee's, that was about it for him.

Remember how sure he was that he was going to come back in the press conference...I felt bad for the guy.

 

[ATC1]

I'm not a doctor, but I would say that if the reconstruction fails, it would be the ligament graft itself that fails, not the screw pulling out of the bone.

Apparently this is called a revision ACL.http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEnotes/node/1173

The revision ACL procedure is considerably more challenging than the primary ACL procedure. The bone may be weakened both by misuse and by pre-existing drilled tunnels, which may be in the wrong position. The options for taking new graft material may be limited by what procedures were done in the primary procedure.

The best outcomes of ACL revision are in the subset that does not have joint cartilage damage, a previous meniscectomy, bow legs or other major ligament instabilities. In this group, I expect an outcome equivalent to a correctly performed primary reconstruction procedure. In order to give the patient this chance, if a graft fails the revision operation needs to be done early to avoid adding new joint surface and meniscal damage to the ligament problems.

In patients with a failed ACL graft in whom there is already joint cartilage damage and meniscal damage, and who perhaps continued to challenge their knee after graft failure with inappropriate activity, we generally find a poorer outcome of a subsequent ACL revision. This group of patients typically may not return to strenuous athletic activities after revision surgery. The condition of the joint cartilage before revision has a significant effect on outcome, and we counsel patients with joint cartilage damage to be realistic in their expectations - pain and instability with ordinary daily activities is likely to be improved, and about half the patients in this group are able to return to light recreational activities, but return to full sporting activities is likely to be out of the question.

 

[switz]

On the very first day of training camp, Green tore his quadriceps muscles, anterior cruciate ligament and cartilage in his right knee. Green came back the next year and again tore the same ACL in training camp.

It's not a good situation for Ingram.

It's good for Ingram that his scenario is nothing like the most extreme scenario you mentioned.

And you know this because?

 

[zed2283]

I'm not a doctor, but I would say that if the reconstruction fails, it would be the ligament graft itself that fails, not the screw pulling out of the bone.

Apparently this is called a revision ACL.http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEnotes/node/1173

The revision ACL procedure is considerably more challenging than the primary ACL procedure. The bone may be weakened both by misuse and by pre-existing drilled tunnels, which may be in the wrong position. The options for taking new graft material may be limited by what procedures were done in the primary procedure.

The best outcomes of ACL revision are in the subset that does not have joint cartilage damage, a previous meniscectomy, bow legs or other major ligament instabilities. In this group, I expect an outcome equivalent to a correctly performed primary reconstruction procedure. In order to give the patient this chance, if a graft fails the revision operation needs to be done early to avoid adding new joint surface and meniscal damage to the ligament problems.

In patients with a failed ACL graft in whom there is already joint cartilage damage and meniscal damage, and who perhaps continued to challenge their knee after graft failure with inappropriate activity, we generally find a poorer outcome of a subsequent ACL revision. This group of patients typically may not return to strenuous athletic activities after revision surgery. The condition of the joint cartilage before revision has a significant effect on outcome, and we counsel patients with joint cartilage damage to be realistic in their expectations - pain and instability with ordinary daily activities is likely to be improved, and about half the patients in this group are able to return to light recreational activities, but return to full sporting activities is likely to be out of the question.

Yep, ACL revision. Looks like I'm screwed.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Free agent WR Drew Carter has had 4 ACL tears and came back from the first 3 (the 4th was last August and he still wants to play).

After his 3rd ACL surgery and rehab he said: "The thing about it that people forget is that torn ACL's don't really take your speed away. Speed doesn't come from your knees. It comes from your hamstrings, it comes from your quads, your hips. So basically, my speed never went away. it was just a matter of getting my knee strong."

 

[switz]

Free agent WR Drew Carter has had 4 ACL tears and came back from the first 3 (the 4th was last August and he still wants to play). After his 3rd ACL surgery and rehab he said: "The thing about it that people forget is that torn ACL's don't really take your speed away. Speed doesn't come from your knees. It comes from your hamstrings, it comes from your quads, your hips. So basically, my speed never went away. it was just a matter of getting my knee strong."

ACLs are much more important to RB than WRs, as ACLs are imperative to cutting ability. Fast WRs can perform well without exploding in and out of their cuts, RBs cannot. Though, I have notived WRs who have ACL injuries tend to become rather one dimensional players afterward.However, when we are talking about a TE who will need to block and run routes, the ACL is a pretty bad injury to suffer....

 

[thehornet]

On the very first day of training camp, Green tore his quadriceps muscles, anterior cruciate ligament and cartilage in his right knee. Green came back the next year and again tore the same ACL in training camp.

It's not a good situation for Ingram.

It's good for Ingram that his scenario is nothing like the most extreme scenario you mentioned.

And you know this because?

i know because no two injuries are the same, no 2 bodies are the same, no 2 situations are the same, and no 2 fates are exactly the same.Pretty basic actually.

 

[ATC1]

Free agent WR Drew Carter has had 4 ACL tears and came back from the first 3 (the 4th was last August and he still wants to play). After his 3rd ACL surgery and rehab he said: "The thing about it that people forget is that torn ACL's don't really take your speed away. Speed doesn't come from your knees. It comes from your hamstrings, it comes from your quads, your hips. So basically, my speed never went away. it was just a matter of getting my knee strong."

Makes absolutely no sense. The largest part of ACL reconstruction rehab is gaining back the strength lost (atrophy) in the quads and hamstrings.

 

[switz]

On the very first day of training camp, Green tore his quadriceps muscles, anterior cruciate ligament and cartilage in his right knee. Green came back the next year and again tore the same ACL in training camp.

It's not a good situation for Ingram.

It's good for Ingram that his scenario is nothing like the most extreme scenario you mentioned.

And you know this because?

i know because no two injuries are the same, no 2 bodies are the same, no 2 situations are the same, and no 2 fates are exactly the same.Pretty basic actually.

I don't disagree, but saying they're not exactly the same, is far different than saying they are nothing alike at all....I'm still wondering why you say they are nothing alike. Are you a doctor? Have you examined the knee? Do you know exactly where the damage is? Did you also examine Yatil's knee each time he injured it?

Frankly, just because two injuries are different doesn't mean they are not like each other at all. I don't think you can just wipe away an example of what could be the scenario with one snide remark, without any basis at all.