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Advice Needed - Family Situation (1 Viewer)

I will volunteer to watch your kids for you.  I personally would feel more comfortable with a random dude off the internet watching my kids, than lying relatives who try and cover up something as terrible as kid touching/ kidnapping.

 
Willie Neslon said:
Maybe OP is 19 had his 17 year old girlfriend sleep over in a hotel with him. You have no idea what the facts are and what actually happened. Again, he has not been convicted of anything.

OP didn't even write the letter.  He's asking should he be pissed off for potential damage to his rep if he wrote a letter that he didn't write.  What if he actually wrote the letter?  Would you guys be pushing him to sue?
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He was asked to write a letter with the facts withheld deliberately, because obviously he's much less likely to write it if he knows the details. That's blatant deception. If the facts were as you are speculating with the 17yo girlfriend, then there probably wouldn't be this level of secrecy. I don't want to speculate myself, but kidnapping and "several other predatory sexual crimes of minors" would suggest something much more serious.

What if you were tricked into writing the letter and the cousin got a slap on the wrist, then went on to victimize more kids? 

 
McGarnicle said:
He was asked to write a letter with the facts withheld deliberately, because obviously he's much less likely to write it if he knows the details. That's blatant deception. If the facts were as you are speculating with the 17yo girlfriend, then there probably wouldn't be this level of secrecy. I don't want to speculate myself, but kidnapping and "several other predatory sexual crimes of minors" would suggest something much more serious.

What if you were tricked into writing the letter and the cousin got a slap on the wrist, then went on to victimize more kids? 
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If something very serious occurred my letter wouldn't have any effect on anything.  I think Aunt would be even more apt to not share details if what actually occurred wasn't a huge deal as to not ruin the kids life over something relatively innocuous.

If you had a cousin who "everyone loved" who was accused of a crime, would you write a letter to the judge stating you knew him to be a good kid? I would, reputation be damned. I'm not saying I would lie but I would do what I could to help a family member.  OP is asking if he should be pissed about being asked to write a letter about a kid everyone loved that he didn't end up writing.  I say no.

 
The purpose of the letter is to use your good standing in society as a reference to try to show him in a good light.

I would be furious is someone tried to trick me into writing a letter under the circumstances you described.

If it is family I may still support him amd write the letter....but I want that to be MY choice, knowing what it will be used for.

if they dont trust you enough to come clean about what is going on that speaks volumes in my mind.  

 
Willie Neslon said:
If something very serious occurred my letter wouldn't have any effect on anything.  I think Aunt would be even more apt to not share details if what actually occurred wasn't a huge deal as to not ruin the kids life over something relatively innocuous.

If you had a cousin who "everyone loved" who was accused of a crime, would you write a letter to the judge stating you knew him to be a good kid? I would, reputation be damned. I'm not saying I would lie but I would do what I could to help a family member.  OP is asking if he should be pissed about being asked to write a letter about a kid everyone loved that he didn't end up writing.  I say no.
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It would depend on the nature of the offense. Some laws are stupid, like charging a 18 year old with statutory rape for having sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. If the cousin was grooming minors and coercing them into sex? Hell no I wouldn't write the letter. 

 
McGarnicle said:
It would depend on the nature of the offense. Some laws are stupid, like charging a 18 year old with statutory rape for having sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. If the cousin was grooming minors and coercing them into sex? Hell no I wouldn't write the letter. 
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Even if he was only charged and denied it? In OP's case this isn't some complete and total anti-christ.  This is a guy who "everyone loves". Maybe he did something awful. Does that mean you completely cut the person out of your life?  Are we still aloud to love friends and family who do something awful?

 
Tough call, Tom.  I'd be wary.  And disappointed.

It was really mind-blowingly stupid to ask you to write a letter of reference without telling you what it was about.  Your "trusted relative" SHOULD have told you "I'm not at liberty to give you the info you are looking for; you'd have to ask [Aunt]."  She should not have told you "I don't know."

I really just don't understand this at all.  Do they think the family WON'T find out about this?  It's going to be in the papers, unless charges get completely dropped.  And if the charges DO get dropped (because they were bogus in the first place) then there is no harm in knowing about them.

But I strongly suspect the charges don't get dropped.  Not if they are asking for letters of reference.  People will know.  Might as well know now.  Just so stupid.

 
The Duff Man said:
The purpose of the letter is to use your good standing in society as a reference to try to show him in a good light.

I would be furious is someone tried to trick me into writing a letter under the circumstances you described.

If it is family I may still support him amd write the letter....but I want that to be MY choice, knowing what it will be used for.

if they dont trust you enough to come clean about what is going on that speaks volumes in my mind.  
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This is also where I am.

I’d at least like to know if the trusted family member thinks he’s guilty, discuss the circumstances, etc., before I document my thoughts.

 
Sconch said:
Ok...Cousin has been ACCUSED of some horrible things.  Asking the OP to vouch for cousin without disclosing the accusations is as good as lying.
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The reference loses some, if not most, value if the person doesn't know the circumstances.  Even if it's not lying by omission, it's not the best choice. 

 
The Duff Man said:
The purpose of the letter is to use your good standing in society as a reference to try to show him in a good light.

I would be furious is someone tried to trick me into writing a letter under the circumstances you described.

If it is family I may still support him amd write the letter....but I want that to be MY choice, knowing what it will be used for.

if they dont trust you enough to come clean about what is going on that speaks volumes in my mind.  
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Yep.  

I guess I might write something in similar circumstances but it would be really vague and bland.  And not really worth anything. 

 
If you google the accused name, do you get the information in such a way that it puts your other relative off of the hook for letting you know, yet gives you a way to say that you do know to the aunt?

I would try that, saying I googled his name and this issue came up, then asking his mother about the story (or seeing more of the full story based on the news reporting of it)

If an 18 year old takes his 16 year old across state lines to a show and they fool around, the charges could be very similar from what I recall seeing in the past. But I agree that withholding the reason for the letter put Tom in a very weird spot and I think he was right to decline and is also right to be upset by the cryptic nature of the request.

 
The Big Guy said:
If you google the accused name, do you get the information in such a way that it puts your other relative off of the hook for letting you know, yet gives you a way to say that you do know to the aunt?

I would try that, saying I googled his name and this issue came up, then asking his mother about the story (or seeing more of the full story based on the news reporting of it)

If an 18 year old takes his 16 year old across state lines to a show and they fool around, the charges could be very similar from what I recall seeing in the past. But I agree that withholding the reason for the letter put Tom in a very weird spot and I think he was right to decline and is also right to be upset by the cryptic nature of the request.
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This is the angle that I am leaning toward. Because yes, a google search does bring up the details and charges.

And for those asking, this is not an 18yo / 16yo situation. This is a mature adult/minor predatory one.

 
Quick question for the lawyer guys. 

If they are at the letters of recommendation phase aren't they likely at the sentencing phase of a trial?  I know the OP was asked for his reference letter a year ago, why the long lapse?  From the post it seems that the trial is still ongoing or soon to be resolved?  I know the wheels of justice move slow sometimes but the timeline seems odd to me.

As for Tom's original questions.

1. I am pretty outraged at all of this. Should I be?  I would be pretty pissed off.  No way I am trusting anyone who lied or told me half truths to try to get me to do something.

2. Do I let my relative watch my children? Obviously this relationship is changed now.  Your call, my relationship with this person would be tainted moving forward.  I'm probably not trusting you to watch my most precious and cherished items in this world ever again.  When I leave my children with you I have to trust unequivocally that you will care for them and do what is right.  Keeping news of a child molester in the family from me crosses that line.

3. How do I proceed? Just looking for options. Pretty sure that we will do something at some point.  I'm going to be looking for alternate plans for someone to watch the kids if possible.  I don't know if you have other options to watch the kids while you are away, or if taking them is a possibility that just makes the trip more difficult.  It's an unfortunate situation that your family member was put in and it was unfair that she was put into that position by your Aunt.  If she is close enough to watch your kids when you are away, then she should have told you the truth.  This isn't hiding someone having a gambling, drinking problem or a drug problem.  This is hiding someone who has been charged with some extremely serious crimes against a minor.  There are some things you just don't keep quiet, especially to family members with young children.

 
Find the victim and ask them if you should write a reference.  It's good to get some different perspective.

 
fixing cars said:
Quick question for the lawyer guys. 

If they are at the letters of recommendation phase aren't they likely at the sentencing phase of a trial?  I know the OP was asked for his reference letter a year ago, why the long lapse?  From the post it seems that the trial is still ongoing or soon to be resolved?  I know the wheels of justice move slow sometimes but the timeline seems odd to me.
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I get reference letters for clients at different stages for different purposes. The most common, however, are for bail at the beginning of the case, for plea negotiations in the middle, or for sentencing at the end. And certainly I might ask for a letter at the beginning and then use it for any or all of the above, which could have happened or be happening here. 

That's part of the reason I think Tom should feel outraged. They passed it off as a general reference letter for an opportunity, which would ordinarily mean a job. I've written lots of job recommendation letters for people I may not have written bail or sentencing letters for. You just think about different things when you write different kinds of reference letters. 

 
Willie Neslon said:
1. No. When shame is involved people tend to guard information. Nobody was trying to pull a fast one on you.

2. Yes. He/she was in the middle and put in a difficult situation. It wasn't his/her place to divulge information and they played dumb which was the best of a few crappy options.

3. Proceed as normal. On a scale of 1 to 10.  1 being nothing, 10 being the worst thing ever, this was a 1.5. Whether or not you wrote the letter nothing was ever going to happen to your professional reputation.
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WTF?

 
Willie Neslon said:
I don't see it that way.  They asked for a character reference letter.  They didn't ask him to lie and didn't ask for a proclamation of innocence. Their son is being charged with some serious stuff. It must be a nightmare for them and something that they don't want the whole world to know about. I don't know that I'd be thinking of the ramifications of not being 100% forthright in why i was requesting a family member (who was fond of the kid) write a character reference letter if I were in their situation.
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WTF?

 
Willie Neslon said:
He's been charged, not convicted. OP is going to write what he knows anyway.  "Everyone in the family loves this cousin. He is very fun, friendly, and a charming personality. But it is also well known that he has a checkered past with drugs and alcohol and other irresponsible behavior." He could have written a character reference saying basically this and the aunt's family could have decided whether or not to use it.  Sterling reputation would have remained unscathed. 
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WTF?

 
Willie Neslon said:
Who would "find out"?  I've never heard of someone being vilified for saying a family member was a good kid, no matter what the kid did. Again, they weren't asking for a declaration of innocence, merely some background character reference. "Growing up, Johnny was kind and well liked. Etc."  How does that sink ones reputation?  The kid hasn't been convicted of anything.
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WTF?

 
Willie Neslon said:
Shutting out family because they were evasive over reasons for a reference is making a mountain out of a molehill.  The real mountain here is a family member who "everyone loves" may be going to jail for a very long time because he made a poor decision. Geez.
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WTF?

 
Willie Neslon said:
Maybe OP is 19 had his 17 year old girlfriend sleep over in a hotel with him. You have no idea what the facts are and what actually happened. Again, he has not been convicted of anything.

OP didn't even write the letter.  He's asking should he be pissed off for potential damage to his rep if he wrote a letter that he didn't write.  What if he actually wrote the letter?  Would you guys be pushing him to sue?
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WTF?

 
Willie Neslon said:
Even if he was only charged and denied it? In OP's case this isn't some complete and total anti-christ.  This is a guy who "everyone loves". Maybe he did something awful. Does that mean you completely cut the person out of your life?  Are we still aloud to love friends and family who do something awful?
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WTF?

 
I agree with Christo on all accounts.

On a side note, maybe I am out of the loop, but since when does some letter from a family member have any sort of influence in a freaking courtroom.  What a weird request.

 
Let's see if we can write the letter.

I know Johnny. Except for this recent problem with molesting kids, he was a pretty good guy in the past when he wasn't high.

 
That they wouldn't discuss the particulars with you implies that if you knew the particulars, they knew you wouldn't write the letter. That would piss me off - outright deception. Anyone enabling the situation is almost as guilty of deception as the original deceiver.  I wouldn't leave my kid with the aunt simply to send the family a message. Or maybe I'd just call them all up, tell them what I read on the internet and read them the riot act.

 
bueno said:
That they wouldn't discuss the particulars with you implies that if you knew the particulars, they knew you wouldn't write the letter. That would piss me off - outright deception. Anyone enabling the situation is almost as guilty of deception as the original deceiver.  I wouldn't leave my kid with the aunt simply to send the family a message. Or maybe I'd just call them all up, tell them what I read on the internet and read them the riot act.
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He's right to be angry, but "read them the riot act" is not going to improve the situation.  Families will go to great lengths to protect their own, even when their kid did something wrong.  OP's mom might have done the same for him in this situation.  

However, I would let them know I read it on the 'net and was unhappy they mislead me.

 
ghostguy123 said:
I agree with Christo on all accounts.

On a side note, maybe I am out of the loop, but since when does some letter from a family member have any sort of influence in a freaking courtroom.  What a weird request.
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I have heard of such letters... from reading about them in news stories, and while I doubt that they impact the judge in sentencing the real impact seems to be in the names of the letter writers being captured online for years to come. It was a real dirty trick the relatives were playing here.

 
jonessed said:
I would be pissed at the aunt.  I think the other relative was stuck.  They likely promised not to talk about it so when you asked they were put in a crappy position.  Either they break the promise or they lie to you.  I would be pissed if they made something up, but an "I don't know" seems like a pretty neutral response given the circumstances.
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This IMO. I'd be furious at the Aunt who asked for the letter, but I'd probably go much easier on the other family member who played dumb. Not a complete pass, but much easier. Id want to have a real conversation on everything before I let them watch my kids for a week, but would probably still let them.

ETA: On the trusted family member who's supposed to watch the kids: I would certainly expect a trusted family member to let me know of a pedophile in the family but if things are still at an early stage re. this pedophile, it's possible that family member would have told you once they had wrapped their own head around the problem. Talk to them with an open mind.

 
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There is no upside to getting mad and confronting people. You made the right move in not involving yourself in this mess. Just stay out of it as much as possible. 

 
ghostguy123 said:
I agree with Christo on all accounts.

On a side note, maybe I am out of the loop, but since when does some letter from a family member have any sort of influence in a freaking courtroom.  What a weird request.
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It depends on the circumstances. In this case, probably none.  In minor first time offenses it can be the difference in getting deferred prosecution, probation, or a better deal.  

Fwiw this is far from the first time a suspect has reached out to someone desperately asking for help without giving all of the details.  We deal with that way too often, sometimes by people you'd think wound know better. 

 
This stance by Willie Nelson is incredibly bizarre. One of the strangest I've ever seen on these forums. Its so odd that I kinda have to assume he was fishing.

There's no reason to withhold information from the OP if the cousin is innocent. And if he's guilty, asking someone (let alone a family member)  to write a character reference without disclosing what is going on is an incredible breach of trust.  Telling him the letter is for "an opportunity" when the "opportunity" is to avoid getting shanked in prison for being a pedophile is disgusting.

I'd be done with this side of the family. Tough spot for the 2nd, closer cousin, but they had better options than perpetuating the lie.

 
Tell them you have reconsidered your position on writing the letter, but you want to speak with the family member.  Once you get him on the phone, "listen here you little predatorial, pervert, if you ever come within 10 miles of me or my kids I'm gonna molest your face with a baseball bat"

 
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Do you "let" them watch your kids while you are out of town?   Seems to me they were doing you a favor.  

If you don't trust this person or hold them in less esteem then you should find another sitter or cancel the trip.

 
TLEF316 said:
This stance by Willie Nelson is incredibly bizarre. One of the strangest I've ever seen on these forums. Its so odd that I kinda have to assume he was fishing.
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Yeah, he's fishing.  No way someone would categorize this as a 1.5. :lol:

I'd be furious with the Aunt for basically trying to steal my reputation.

While I'd be mad at the other relative for saying "I don't know", I can't really fault her for playing dumb.  I'd want to talk to her about it before going on the trip.  

 
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