thecardiackid
Footballguy
who is 2008?
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After the Combine top rated 24 rookies. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
- Start date
Sounds like Matt Forte. While not caucasian, I would not go as far as saying he is "most definitely not caucasian."
Where are the similarities between Forte and Gerhart? The only thing that is close is their bench press.
The more I watch Gerhart, the more I'm reminded of Michael Turner.
Honda
Footballguy
I don't see any elite players. They all look like maybes to me. I liked last year's class much more than I do this year's.
This, however, is certainly true. Some of these guys will turn out to be the real deal. But just like real NFL GMs', fantasy players have to rely a bit on luck to get their hands on said players.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I don't think he has quite the burst, but his 40 time was faster than most expected. Hell, he ran as fast as Beanie and Knowshon last year.
EBF
Footballguy
Yea, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.I'd take Dez or Demaryius over any 2009 WR prospect not named Crabtree (and I liked Harvin and Nicks quite a bit). Spiller is a better prospect than Moreno, Wells, or Brown. Mathews is right up there with Greene and Wells in my current dynasty RB rankings.
Plenty of talent this year. I think the top 4 picks in the rookie draft are getting elite prospects.
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
This actually has not been established as fact in the neuroscience literature. Not necessarily impossible, either. But, what is presumed by most folks right now is that some people simply have greater vulnerability to concussion than others, which leads people to have multiple concussions (and, at this point, an unfounded belief that prior brain injuries predisposed the person to new ones). There simply are no data or pathophysiologically established reason right now that the cumulative effect of concussions changes the brain to make one more susceptible to future concussions.There is a second-impact syndrome that can occur if someone sustains a head injury before a previous concussion has not resolved, yet. But, it is extremely rare and not really applicable to Best right now.
Bottom line, I do think it is concerning that Best has had 2 concussions already. It doesn't bode well for a long-term career, imo.
jurb26
Footballguy
I don't think there are any elite prospects at QB, RB or WR in this years class. Strange because this is such a good college class overall but it's in the trenches IMO. Good for real NFL value but not so much for fantasy. None of the QBs are as good as Stafford and they may not even be as good as Sanchez. None of the RBs are as good as Moreno or Wells. Bryant may prove to be the best WR of this year and last year but I'm not so sure about that either.
EBF
Footballguy
It's all relative of course. Everyone playing NCAA football is elite relative to the average high school player. Everyone drafted by the NFL is elite relative to the average NCAA player. Everyone picked in the first round is elite relative to the average NFL draftee.I see four prospects who would be in the first tier in virtually any draft class (Bryant, Spiller, Mathews, Thomas). That's what I meant when I called them elite.
Don't really agree with the above. Moreno doesn't look good at all. Wells is legit. I think as a group Spiller and Mathews are better prospects then Moreno and Wells.
coolnerd
Footballguy
While there are guys who have elite physical skills in this draft, think outside of Bryant and Spiller, the others have enough question to keep me from looking at them as complete enough to be calling them no doubt Tier 1 players. that said, this draft has way more depth than last year's draft. My guess is that I won't see NFL 5th round Wrs and 7th round rbs drafted in the mid 2nd like I did last year in rookie drafts.
Moreno is getting too much hate.Give him this year before we pass judgement.. Remember that Mendenhall didn't show us much at all prior to his injury last year and looked like a bust before going into this past season
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benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
EBF
Footballguy
The difference is that Mendenhall barely played in his rookie year whereas Moreno had 247 carries last season. He averaged 3.8 YPC, only had two runs of 20+ yards, and was outplayed by Correll Buckhalter. Not good. I think it's slightly premature to close the book on him, but no rookie disappointed me more than Moreno last season. I have been cutting bait in the leagues where I own him.
EBF
Footballguy
I just took him at 3.11 in a 14 team dynasty startup. I'm really bullish on his talent and I don't think the gap between him and Bryant is huge. Most of the internet draft sites are sleeping on his potential, but Russ Lande from The Sporting News is also banging the drum. He has Thomas as a top 15 value in this draft class. I think Thomas could slip as far as the 2nd round. He would be a great value there. Regardless of where he goes, I'm sold.
Spike
Footballguy
The talk, coming out of the combine, of all the immaturity issues with Dez Bryant (late for many meetings, even late for games) doesn't hurt him in your eyes?I'm just looking for answers as I have the 1.01 in a dynasty league and, prior to hearing this stuff about Bryant, I felt sure I would take him with the 1.01.With these questions (in my mind), I am second-guessing myself. Does Bryant turn into a latter-day version of Charles Rogers? I just cannot afford to blow this.
Spike
Footballguy
With your statement that you like Bradford over Stafford and Sanchez from last year, where would you rank Bradford in this year's class?Actually there's a lot of depth at WR, with possibly 4 or 5 WR #1s / #2s, Dez Bryant, D Thomas, G Tate, Damien Williams, A Benn, B LaFell, M Gilyard . It's also a very good draft for TEs, with Gresham, Jimmy Graham, Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Dorin Dickerson, and Garrett Graham. Not as good for QBs, but I do like Bradford over Stafford and Sanchez from last year. I like 4 RBs with Mathews, Spiller, Best, and Hardesty.What a lousy draft class.
I can't get excited at all. I'm glad that I only hold a top 3 pick in 1 league. Even in that league I will be trying to trade it away. I'll take some shots in the late 1'st and early 2nd but I'm not hoping for much. I think I'll probably end up drafting Gerhart in a lot of leagues this year. I have him ranked higher than pretty much every single list I see people putting out. (I have him solidly in the top 10 pending the draft where he may move top 5).
EBF
Footballguy
Got the 1.04 in a PPR league and LeSean McCoy in a non-PPR (prior to Westbrook's release).
Kleck
Footballguy
Ability wise I have Bryant right up there with Crabtree, but I've been asking myself these same questions. IMO, work ethic is extremely underrated when evaluation rookies, and right now I'm a little uncertain with Bryant...
Invictus~Bronte
Footballguy
I agree with half this..Moreno has shown me nothing which doesn't surprise. Beanie is for real. Moreno could barely keep a slimmed down Buckhalter off the field!So much of this is where they end up..Going on Talent, Mcluster is as good a football player as any.. Mathews and Gerhart are as good as any last years rooks
im of the opinion that moreno played with a knee injury the WHOLE year... remember he hurt it in pre-season? the guy has talent... i said dont sleep on mendy... dont sleep on knowmo either... and ebf is right about thomas, his physical talent is even or BETTER than BryantInvictus~Bronte said:
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
What is there to like about Moreno? Just an awful pick by Denver when you take into account all that went into to. For a guy weighing in at 215 and running a 4.62, it is still mind-boggling he was taken so high. Actually when you take everything into consideration, he had a better year then I would have expected.Kleck said:
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Well, I should have mentioned that this is PPR and in my opinion you should take elite WRs ahead of very good RBs in PPR. In terms of his maturity, for whatever reason there are a lot of elite WRs that have those issues. Not sure what about the position makes it like that, but it does. Moss, TO, Ocho, Crabtree, etc. So I'm not too worried about that. I have the 1.03, so I hope the two guys ahead of me are scared off, but I don't think they should be, or will be. Now in non-PPR, I could see moving him behind Spiller, Mathews and maybe Best if he goes to a good situation.Spike said:
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I think it's worth seeing what the NFL thinks by seeing where he is drafted. There are a number of teams in the top 17-18 picks that could use him. If he falls past that and gets drafted in the 20s, it might signal a deeper issue. It seems like in the past players would drop because of off-field worries that were largely unwarranted (Marino, Sapp, Moss), but lately teams have figured out and separated the real problems from the superficial stuff, like with Crabtree last season.ETA - Add Harvin from last season with the pot and Tate going higher than expected with the pot and injury.Kleck said:
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loose circuits
Footballguy
The RB's
1) Spiller
2) Mathews
3) Best
4) Dwyer (want to rank him even lower, but sometimes those guys with potato bodies can be freaky)
5) Gerhart
6) Hardesty
7) Ben Tate
8) Dixon (could easily have him at 6)
9) McCluster (just not sure how much he'll be featured on offense, main damage could be return game)
that is 9 quality RB options IMO. 3 guys that can provide the dash and 6 others that could be feature backs and carry the rock or just get the tough yards.
Then there are more like Bell (Wayne State), Blount (Oregon), McKnight (USC), Starks (Buf), McNeal (SMU), Johnson (USC), Scott (LSU), and James (Mia) who all have intriguing skill sets but are difficult to rank.
I'd say the RB depth in this draft is pretty deep
1) Spiller
2) Mathews
3) Best
4) Dwyer (want to rank him even lower, but sometimes those guys with potato bodies can be freaky)
5) Gerhart
6) Hardesty
7) Ben Tate
8) Dixon (could easily have him at 6)
9) McCluster (just not sure how much he'll be featured on offense, main damage could be return game)
that is 9 quality RB options IMO. 3 guys that can provide the dash and 6 others that could be feature backs and carry the rock or just get the tough yards.
Then there are more like Bell (Wayne State), Blount (Oregon), McKnight (USC), Starks (Buf), McNeal (SMU), Johnson (USC), Scott (LSU), and James (Mia) who all have intriguing skill sets but are difficult to rank.
I'd say the RB depth in this draft is pretty deep
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm struggling with a few of the rookie WRs who are being given 1st round rookie dynasty ratings. My concern is primarily college production. Seems like each year there are mildly production WRs who get rookie draft hype based on a single good college season, or combine/workout performance. Don't get me wrong, I realize there have been plenty of uber-productive collegeans who flopped int he NFL (Mike Williams, Reggie Williams, Dwayne Jarrett) but to me those guys are more difficult to spot and FFers are to a greater extent excused for wasting a pick on them, compared to the WRs who truly never put up landmark college stats:
Demaryius Thomas [120, 2329 (19.5), 15]
Arreliuos Benn [159, 2221 (14.0), 7]
Damien Williams [147, 2114 (14.4), 17]
Guys who should have been ignored in prior drafts(?):
Devin Thomas (2008) [85, 1350 (15.9), 9]
Robert Meacham (2007) [125, 2140 (17.1), 17]
Chad Jackson (2006) [120, 1586 (13.2), 16]
Troy Williamson (2005) [91, 1754 (19.3), 13]
List of F&L top 10 along with college statistics:
1. Larry Fitzgerald [161, 2677 (16.6), 34]
2. Andre Johnson [92, 1831 (19.9), 20]
3. Calvin Johnson [178, 2927 (16.4), 28]
4. Vincent Jackson [171, 3467 (21.2), 36]
5. Reggie Wayne [175, 2510 (14.3), 20]
6. Desean Jackson [162, 2423 (14.9), 22]
7. Roddy White [163, 3112 (19.1), 26]
8. Randy Moss [174, 3529 (20.3), 54]
9. Miles Austin [150, 2867 (19.1), 33]
10. Marques Colston [182, 2834 (15.6), 18]
Seems to me that Andre Johnson is the one gem who bucked the norm by not putting up monster stats in college while going on to dynasty gold. So I guess this is a long-winded way of asking why should I care to take a chance on Demaryius Thomas, A.Benn or D.Williams? Secondarily, I'm curious if anytone has an example of a under-performing collegean (other than QB converts like Hines Ward) who became truly elite FF WRs?
Demaryius Thomas [120, 2329 (19.5), 15]
Arreliuos Benn [159, 2221 (14.0), 7]
Damien Williams [147, 2114 (14.4), 17]
Guys who should have been ignored in prior drafts(?):
Devin Thomas (2008) [85, 1350 (15.9), 9]
Robert Meacham (2007) [125, 2140 (17.1), 17]
Chad Jackson (2006) [120, 1586 (13.2), 16]
Troy Williamson (2005) [91, 1754 (19.3), 13]
List of F&L top 10 along with college statistics:
1. Larry Fitzgerald [161, 2677 (16.6), 34]
2. Andre Johnson [92, 1831 (19.9), 20]
3. Calvin Johnson [178, 2927 (16.4), 28]
4. Vincent Jackson [171, 3467 (21.2), 36]
5. Reggie Wayne [175, 2510 (14.3), 20]
6. Desean Jackson [162, 2423 (14.9), 22]
7. Roddy White [163, 3112 (19.1), 26]
8. Randy Moss [174, 3529 (20.3), 54]
9. Miles Austin [150, 2867 (19.1), 33]
10. Marques Colston [182, 2834 (15.6), 18]
Seems to me that Andre Johnson is the one gem who bucked the norm by not putting up monster stats in college while going on to dynasty gold. So I guess this is a long-winded way of asking why should I care to take a chance on Demaryius Thomas, A.Benn or D.Williams? Secondarily, I'm curious if anytone has an example of a under-performing collegean (other than QB converts like Hines Ward) who became truly elite FF WRs?
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The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
Thomas played in a triple option offense. Simple as that. He put up the about as good of stats as one could expect considering that. Not to mention he has physical abilities that maybe 10 WR's in the NFL can compete with. Benn I wouldn't touch before the 2nd round so he will not end up on my teams. Williams played well enough for loaded Trojan teams to interest me.
Rick Gosselin came out toay with this top 10 after combine players as well as those rising and falling.
Of his top 10 players 4 played offensive skill positions. #4 Bradford, #8 Clausen, #9 Spiller and #10 Bryant,
Top skill position players falling are #1 Dwyer, #3 Dan LeFevour and #5 Bryant who still made #10 on the top 10 players.
The only skill position player to make the top rising category was Jacoby Ford who came in at #4.
Of his top 10 players 4 played offensive skill positions. #4 Bradford, #8 Clausen, #9 Spiller and #10 Bryant,
Top skill position players falling are #1 Dwyer, #3 Dan LeFevour and #5 Bryant who still made #10 on the top 10 players.
The only skill position player to make the top rising category was Jacoby Ford who came in at #4.
So you'd take a qb coming off of two significant shoulder injures and who has to learn how to take snaps from under center over two qbs who were healthy and who ran pro style offenses?I predict gerhart will break alot of ff owners' hearts, great college running back but is one dimensional, has no moves to avoid a tackler, and runs too upright
Reading through the Rookie Scouting Portfolio right now, it looks like the same comparison struck Matt Waldman every time he watched him, too.
