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Airlines Amp Up Warnings on 5G Service - 1.19.21 - some US flights suspended over 5G uncertainty (1 Viewer)

The aerospace industry is lying.

There is absolutely no evidence of their claims. It’s already been rolled out in 40 other countries with no effects. All studies have shown no effects. The airplane manufacturers and airlines have provided zero proof of their claims, only saying it’s possible.

The real likelihood is that the aerospace industry already has plans for part of that spectrum and have leaned heavily on the FAA to benefit themselves financially.

 
GroveDiesel said:
The aerospace industry is lying.

There is absolutely no evidence of their claims. It’s already been rolled out in 40 other countries with no effects. All studies have shown no effects. The airplane manufacturers and airlines have provided zero proof of their claims, only saying it’s possible.

The real likelihood is that the aerospace industry already has plans for part of that spectrum and have leaned heavily on the FAA to benefit themselves financially.
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Not mentioned is those 40 countries either moved the 5g frequency farther away from altimeters or they put protections the FAA is asking for ....

 
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I’m sure what they are hoping for is more customers using the plane WiFi because they can’t get a signal while on the ground before and after take off.

 
I feel as though the people who came up with the tech would have tested it before rolling it out, and the airline industry has been charging more for less for decades now already. 

 
Kal El said:
I feel as though the people who came up with the tech would have tested it before rolling it out, and the airline industry has been charging more for less for decades now already. 
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That is the main issue, imo. It's been tested but the FAA is not 100% on board with how it was tested, imo the FAA has not actually finished their own testing in a satisfactory way.  Not sure the airlines charging more have to do with new wireless tech

 
GroveDiesel said:
The aerospace industry is lying.

There is absolutely no evidence of their claims. It’s already been rolled out in 40 other countries with no effects. All studies have shown no effects. The airplane manufacturers and airlines have provided zero proof of their claims, only saying it’s possible.

The real likelihood is that the aerospace industry already has plans for part of that spectrum and have leaned heavily on the FAA to benefit themselves financially.
Click to expand...


I was going to post this same article, I side against the FAA here.

 
Kal El said:
I feel as though the people who came up with the tech would have tested it before rolling it out, and the airline industry has been charging more for less for decades now already. 
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What in your mind would this look like?  The spectrums are very close, we know what happens when you try to send signals in the same neighborhood.  

The most relevant testing is probably the deep space radar telescope.  They set out to look for other radio signals in deep space and found some. Only to find out later that it was in fact their microwave oven making popcorn they were seeing.  

It's not really rocket science here. 

 
culdeus said:
What in your mind would this look like?  The spectrums are very close, we know what happens when you try to send signals in the same neighborhood.  

The most relevant testing is probably the deep space radar telescope.  They set out to look for other radio signals in deep space and found some. Only to find out later that it was in fact their microwave oven making popcorn they were seeing.  

It's not really rocket science here. 
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That’s admittedly outside my wheelhouse, so I’m not sure what I could feasibly contribute.

 
culdeus said:
What in your mind would this look like?  The spectrums are very close, we know what happens when you try to send signals in the same neighborhood.  

The most relevant testing is probably the deep space radar telescope.  They set out to look for other radio signals in deep space and found some. Only to find out later that it was in fact their microwave oven making popcorn they were seeing.  

It's not really rocket science here. 
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Actually, the bandwidth buffer they have left between them is pretty huge. There really shouldn’t be any interference period, but if there is, it would be because the FAA has allowed airlines to use some altimeters that are 40+ years old and so shoddily designed that they can be interfered with signals that are WAY outside the spectrum they are meant to operate in to the point where other equipment already in use for other purposes would already be interfering.

 
stbugs said:
I’m sure what they are hoping for is more customers using the plane WiFi because they can’t get a signal while on the ground before and after take off.
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I never really paid that close attention but they don’t turn the plane wifi on until 10k feet or so (and disable it when landing).

 
Comes to mind...

Harry Stamper: What's your contingency plan?

Truman: Contingency plan?

Harry Stamper: Your backup plan. You gotta have some kind of backup plan, right?

Truman: No, we don't have a back up plan. This is it.

Harry Stamper: And this is the best that you c - that the-the government, the *U.S. government* can come up with? I mean, you-you're NASA for cryin' out loud, you put a man on the moon, you're geniuses! You-you're the guys that think this #### up! I'm sure you got a team of men sitting around somewhere right now just thinking #### up and somebody backing them up! You're telling me you don't have a backup plan, that these eight boy scouts right here, that is the world's hope, that's what you're telling me?

Truman: Yeah.

 
So I'm a licensed pilot (private - single engine - just the basics), and I used to own a cell phone franchise, so I've got some opinions here.  I'm 100% in the boat that cell phones have zero impact on airline operations.  From what I've read over the years, AND from what I tested in my time in the air, you 100% can even USE cell phones from a plane in the air.  Now what I fly is nowhere near as advanced as a commercial jet, but a lot of the principles and bandwidths are the same.  I've called friends and family from the air before.  The biggest issue is the cell towers don't handle the tower-to-tower hand-offs well when you are traveling at 200 mph (or much faster in commercial jets).  Calls drop a lot - but I've never witnessed anything with the plane instrumentation.  I don't understand how this new 5g would be any different.

I'll also add that people can't follow instructions on planes to save their lives - anyone who travels has seen this.  I guarantee you almost every flight has at least one person who leaves their phone on and NOT in airplane mode.  If it was that big of a deal, you'd think there would be more instances of issues.

 
Fat Nick said:
So I'm a licensed pilot (private - single engine - just the basics), and I used to own a cell phone franchise, so I've got some opinions here.  I'm 100% in the boat that cell phones have zero impact on airline operations.  From what I've read over the years, AND from what I tested in my time in the air, you 100% can even USE cell phones from a plane in the air.  Now what I fly is nowhere near as advanced as a commercial jet, but a lot of the principles and bandwidths are the same.  I've called friends and family from the air before.  The biggest issue is the cell towers don't handle the tower-to-tower hand-offs well when you are traveling at 200 mph (or much faster in commercial jets).  Calls drop a lot - but I've never witnessed anything with the plane instrumentation.  I don't understand how this new 5g would be any different.

I'll also add that people can't follow instructions on planes to save their lives - anyone who travels has seen this.  I guarantee you almost every flight has at least one person who leaves their phone on and NOT in airplane mode.  If it was that big of a deal, you'd think there would be more instances of issues.
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It's completely different.  And has zero at all to do with people having phones on or not.

 
Fat Nick said:
So I'm a licensed pilot (private - single engine - just the basics), and I used to own a cell phone franchise, so I've got some opinions here.  I'm 100% in the boat that cell phones have zero impact on airline operations.  From what I've read over the years, AND from what I tested in my time in the air, you 100% can even USE cell phones from a plane in the air.  Now what I fly is nowhere near as advanced as a commercial jet, but a lot of the principles and bandwidths are the same.  I've called friends and family from the air before.  The biggest issue is the cell towers don't handle the tower-to-tower hand-offs well when you are traveling at 200 mph (or much faster in commercial jets).  Calls drop a lot - but I've never witnessed anything with the plane instrumentation.  I don't understand how this new 5g would be any different.

I'll also add that people can't follow instructions on planes to save their lives - anyone who travels has seen this.  I guarantee you almost every flight has at least one person who leaves their phone on and NOT in airplane mode.  If it was that big of a deal, you'd think there would be more instances of issues.
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Flying VFR and IFR are 2 different beasts...

That being said the issue discussed isn't with phone usage on planes.

It's the band the towers are projecting near airports and altimeters...that is the current argument being made by agencies

 
BeTheMatch said:
Sunday.
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The FAA has approved electronic devices in use for all phases of flight since 2013.  It is up to the carrier whether they want to announce the FCC rule which hasn't been enforced since 2018 in any meaningful capacity. The issue here has zero to do with the personal use of devices, so it's not at all relevant

 
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culdeus said:
The FAA has approved electronic devices in use for all phases of flight since 2013.  It is up to the carrier whether they want to announce the FCC rule which hasn't been enforced since 2018 in any meaningful capacity. The issue here has zero to do with the personal use of devices, so it's not at all relevant
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I simply made a comment about the airlines' general lack of credibility based on their past and current comments and actions on cel phone use.

And you decided to try to make me look like an idiot for some reason. It was super fun, so thanks!

 
BeTheMatch said:
I simply made a comment about the airlines' general lack of credibility based on their past and current comments and actions on cel phone use.

And you decided to try to make me look like an idiot for some reason. It was super fun, so thanks!
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So your view is they should have not attempted to announce or enforce a FCC regulation imposed upon them (with penalties) to retain credibility?  

 
Zasada said:
100% untrue.  Inflation-adjusted airfares have been in decline since deregulation.  It's never been cheaper to fly than it is now.
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I got tickets from Orlando to Dallas in June 2020 for $17 each, so about $35 round trip. I highly doubt they’re that cheap, or will ever be again.

 
Kal El said:
I got tickets from Orlando to Dallas in June 2020 for $17 each, so about $35 round trip. I highly doubt they’re that cheap, or will ever be again.
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Yeah because that one time you bought tickets is a good indicator of average airfare trends over time.

 
culdeus said:
UA now sending out notifications that they are anticipating delays all day today.  
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With carriers having delayed rollout, it will be interesting to compare their delays/cancellations yesterday versus today and through the next week. I have a suspicion that they will look very similar and that 5G was simply used as a cover for cancellations that were already going to happen because of staffing issues.

 
GroveDiesel said:
With carriers having delayed rollout, it will be interesting to compare their delays/cancellations yesterday versus today and through the next week. I have a suspicion that they will look very similar and that 5G was simply used as a cover for cancellations that were already going to happen because of staffing issues.
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The rollout was delayed, so it's still TBD.  The likely situation seems like there will be 5G keepout zones in the area of major airports.  Anyone flying into a non major airport can just hope for the best. 

 
Zasada said:
Yeah because that one time you bought tickets is a good indicator of average airfare trends over time.
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Your previous statement literally read, “It’s never been cheaper to fly than it is now.” My statement disproved that, trends or no trends. Of course, that’s not even touching on the fact that actually getting on the plane is a giant hassle, with security, lines, and the fact people lose their minds in airports. That in and of itself makes the flight more expensive from a stress standpoint, which is admittedly hard to quantify, but is there all the same.

 
Kal El said:
Your previous statement literally read, “It’s never been cheaper to fly than it is now.” My statement disproved that, trends or no trends. Of course, that’s not even touching on the fact that actually getting on the plane is a giant hassle, with security, lines, and the fact people lose their minds in airports. That in and of itself makes the flight more expensive from a stress standpoint, which is admittedly hard to quantify, but is there all the same.
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Referring to pandemic flight prices isn't really having a discussion in good faith. 

 
culdeus said:
The rollout was delayed, so it's still TBD.  The likely situation seems like there will be 5G keepout zones in the area of major airports.  Anyone flying into a non major airport can just hope for the best. 
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So how is it that the majority of the rest of the world has had zero issues with this and the American carriers are all over here hand wringing about it?

 
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