All this Bush talk... (1 Viewer)

[Taylor]

There is a ton of Bush talk on these boards. Heck, there is a ton of Bush talk everywhere.

His #s yesterday were great.

He'll be the 1.01 rookie pick in most dynasty leagues - though not all (depending where DeAngelo, Maroney, etc etc end up).

And taking Bush as the 1.01 in a rookie draft is not that risky (even if you like one of the other guys better - Bush would still be 1.02).

But in an initial DYNASTY league - now where do you draft him?

Do you take him over guys like Portis, Edge, Rudi, S.Jackson, etc? Or is that crazy?

Do you take him over guys like Manning or the very best WRs?

What say you?

 

[djb916420]

If he's still there in the 3rd round, im taking him. But i think it would be crazy to take him ahead of portis, espically if he is splitting carries this year.

 

[Chitown Mole]

Houston is going to have a very new offense and most ASSUME that it will mimick the Denver offense 100% but I am not sure we will be as run centered as Denver is based on our signings. No telling what is running through Kubiak's brain right now.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I just did a top sixty Dynasty RB list, this is where I've got Reggie along with the rest of the RBs, rooks included.

http://mb25.scout.com/fbrownsinsiderfrm14....icID=1468.topic

1 - Tomlinson San Diego Chargers

2 - Shaun Alexander Seattle Seahawks

----------------------------------------------------------

Elite, in a class by themselves.

3- Larry Johnson Kansas City Chiefs

-----------------------------------------------------

Should move up to creme de le creme elite status this year.

4 - Steven Jackson St. Louis Rams

5 - Clinton Portis, Washington Redskins

6 - EDGE Indianapolis Cards

7 - Cadillac Williams Tampa Bay Bucs

--------------------------------------------------------

The elite suburbs within striking distance to move up.

8 - Kevin Jones Detroit Lions

9 - Willis McGahee Buffalo Bills

10 - Ronnie Brown Miami Dolphins

11 - Deuce New Orleans Saints

12 - Lamont Jordan, Oakland Raiders

13 - Rudi Johnson Cincinati Bengals

14 - Jamal Lewis Baltimore Ravens

15 - Julius Jones Dallas Cowboys

--------------------------------------------------

Solid starters one or two will move.

I'd say if you have ONE RB within the top fifteen you are keeping pace. If you have a RB within the elite status you hold a competative advantage. Two RBs in the top seven is a deadly combo. My magic formula has always been to have three solid starters due to bye weeks and injuries which should give you an advantage provided you don't get nailed by multiple season ending injuries/jail sentences/ etc. Con't

16 - Brian Westbrook Philadelphia Eagles

17 - Reggie Bush Houston Jets Texans?

18 - Chester Taylor Minny

19 - Chris Brown, Tennessee Titans

20 - Cedric Benson Chicago Bears

21 - DeAngelo Williams, NCAA

22 - Deshaun Foster, Carolina Panthers

23 - Dom Davis Houston Texans

24 - Tatum Bell, Denver Broncos

25- Lawrence Maroney ?

26 - Thomas Jones, Chicago Bears

27 - Reuben Droughns

28 - LenDale White ?

29 - Willie Parker Steelers

30 - Ricky Williams Phins

------------------------------------------------------

Potential to move up but unstable. Fluid potential here.

31 - Chris Perry Bengals

32 - Eric Shelton Cats

33 - Marion Barber 3 Boys

34 - Travis Henry ####

35 - Frank Gore SF

36 - Samkon Gado

37 - Najeh Davenport

38 - Ron Dayne

---------------------------------

Purgatory, need a shot to show what they can do.

39t - Tiki Barber New York Giants

39t - Warrick Dunn

40 - Corey Dillon

41 - Ahman Green

42 - Fred Taylor

----------------------------------------------

Elder Dynasty statesmen, still highly productive.

43 - Joseph Addai

44 - TJ Duckett

45 - Mike Anderson

46 - Ryan Moats

47 - Michael Turner

48 - Cedric Houston

49 - Brian Calhoun

50 - Kevan Barlow

51 - Michael Bennett

52 - Curtis Martin

53 - Brandon Jacobs

------------------------------

Decent enough possibilities and probably one will break out.

54 - Maurice Morris

55 - Dominic Rhodes

56 - JJ Arrington

57 - Mewelde Moore

58 - Greg Jones

59 - Ciatrick Fason

60t - Lee Suggs

60t William Green

------------------------------

Good nuff for a mention.

Posted on a Browns sight, hence the last two names.

 

[dgreen]

1 - Tomlinson San Diego Chargers

2 - Shaun Alexander Seattle Seahawks

3- Larry Johnson Kansas City Chiefs

4 - Steven Jackson St. Louis Rams

5 - Clinton Portis, Washington Redskins

6 - EDGE Indianapolis Cards

7 - Cadillac Williams Tampa Bay Bucs

8 - Kevin Jones Detroit Lions

9 - Willis McGahee Buffalo Bills

10 - Ronnie Brown Miami Dolphins

11 - Deuce New Orleans Saints

12 - Lamont Jordan, Oakland Raiders

13 - Rudi Johnson Cincinati Bengals

14 - Jamal Lewis Baltimore Ravens

15 - Julius Jones Dallas Cowboys

16 - Brian Westbrook Philadelphia Eagles

17 - Reggie Bush Houston Jets Texans?

The best way to gauge dynasty value is to ask: Would I trade X for Y? So, you wouldn't trade away Brian Westbrook, Julius Jones, or Jamal Lewis for Reggie Bush?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The best way to gauge dynasty value is to ask: Would I trade X for Y? So, you wouldn't trade away Brian Westbrook, Julius Jones, or Jamal Lewis for Reggie Bush?

Counter questions would be, what have, Jamal Lewis/Brian Westbrook/Julius Jones done to prove themselves in the league?What has Reggie Bush done?What situation are Jam/Westy/JJ in?What situation is Bush in? Situation = Scheme/fit/coachingHow many touches?Age?Injury?Talent/upside.I look at as much as possible to figure out how they dynasty RBs and I feel I wieght the different factors accordingly but YMMV.

 

[Miscellaneous]

If I had each of these guys, in a vacuum, I would not trade the #2 guy straight up for the #3 guy, and etcetera down the line (pre-NFL Draft):

1.) LaDainian Tomlinson

2.) Larry Johnson

3.) Edgerrin James

4.) Shaun Alexander

5.) Reggie Bush

6.) Ronnie Brown

7.) Steven Jackson

8.) Clinton Portis

9.) Cadillac Williams

10.) Rudi Johnson

11.) Brian Westbrook

12.) Willis MacGahee

13.) Julius Jones

14.) Kevin Jones

15.) Lamont Jordan

Reggie is the only guy I feel strongly enough about to rank before the Draft happens. Again, this is in a vacuum, and all trades would be straight-up.

 

[diesel7982]

I just did a top sixty Dynasty RB list, this is where I've got Reggie along with the rest of the RBs, rooks included.

http://mb25.scout.com/fbrownsinsiderfrm14....icID=1468.topic

1 - Tomlinson San Diego Chargers

2 - Shaun Alexander Seattle Seahawks

----------------------------------------------------------

Elite, in a class by themselves.

3- Larry Johnson Kansas City Chiefs

-----------------------------------------------------

Should move up to creme de le creme elite status this year.

4 - Steven Jackson St. Louis Rams

5 - Clinton Portis, Washington Redskins

6 - EDGE Indianapolis Cards

7 - Cadillac Williams Tampa Bay Bucs

--------------------------------------------------------

The elite suburbs within striking distance to move up.

8 - Kevin Jones Detroit Lions

9 - Willis McGahee Buffalo Bills

10 - Ronnie Brown Miami Dolphins

11 - Deuce New Orleans Saints

12 - Lamont Jordan, Oakland Raiders

13 - Rudi Johnson Cincinati Bengals

14 - Jamal Lewis Baltimore Ravens

15 - Julius Jones Dallas Cowboys

--------------------------------------------------

Solid starters one or two will move.

I'd say if you have ONE RB within the top fifteen you are keeping pace. If you have a RB within the elite status you hold a competative advantage. Two RBs in the top seven is a deadly combo. My magic formula has always been to have three solid starters due to bye weeks and injuries which should give you an advantage provided you don't get nailed by multiple season ending injuries/jail sentences/ etc. Con't

16 - Brian Westbrook Philadelphia Eagles

17 - Reggie Bush Houston Jets Texans?

18 - Chester Taylor Minny

19 - Chris Brown, Tennessee Titans

20 - Cedric Benson Chicago Bears

21 - DeAngelo Williams, NCAA

22 - Deshaun Foster, Carolina Panthers

23 - Dom Davis Houston Texans

24 - Tatum Bell, Denver Broncos

25- Lawrence Maroney ?

26 - Thomas Jones, Chicago Bears

27 - Reuben Droughns

28 - LenDale White ?

29 - Willie Parker Steelers

30 - Ricky Williams Phins

------------------------------------------------------

Potential to move up but unstable. Fluid potential here.

31 - Chris Perry Bengals

32 - Eric Shelton Cats

33 - Marion Barber 3 Boys

34 - Travis Henry ####

35 - Frank Gore SF

36 - Samkon Gado

37 - Najeh Davenport

38 - Ron Dayne

---------------------------------

Purgatory, need a shot to show what they can do.

39t - Tiki Barber New York Giants

39t - Warrick Dunn

40 - Corey Dillon

41 - Ahman Green

42 - Fred Taylor

----------------------------------------------

Elder Dynasty statesmen, still highly productive.

43 - Joseph Addai

44 - TJ Duckett

45 - Mike Anderson

46 - Ryan Moats

47 - Michael Turner

48 - Cedric Houston

49 - Brian Calhoun

50 - Kevan Barlow

51 - Michael Bennett

52 - Curtis Martin

53 - Brandon Jacobs

------------------------------

Decent enough possibilities and probably one will break out.

54 - Maurice Morris

55 - Dominic Rhodes

56 - JJ Arrington

57 - Mewelde Moore

58 - Greg Jones

59 - Ciatrick Fason

60t - Lee Suggs

60t William Green

------------------------------

Good nuff for a mention.

Posted on a Browns sight, hence the last two names.

Am I reading this right? Guys like Najeh, Dayne, Gore, Shelton over Tiki Barber and Warrick Dunn?

They both belong in the top 15. While they wont help you win in 4 years, neither will mediocre RBs like Chris Brown, Julius Jones, Jamal Lewis, Kevin Jones, etc.

 

[Avery]

I just did a top sixty Dynasty RB list, this is where I've got Reggie along with the rest of the RBs, rooks included.

http://mb25.scout.com/fbrownsinsiderfrm14....icID=1468.topic

31 - Chris Perry Bengals

32 - Eric Shelton Cats

33 - Marion Barber 3 Boys

34 - Travis Henry ####

35 - Frank Gore SF

36 - Samkon Gado

37 - Najeh Davenport

38 - Ron Dayne

---------------------------------

Purgatory, need a shot to show what they can do.

39t - Tiki Barber New York Giants

39t - Warrick Dunn

How some people say Tiki barber isn't underrated is beyond me.And I know it's dynasty and Tiki's on the wrong side of 30, but he should never, EVER, be below Ron Dayne on any list, unless it's a list of who can polish off a dozen hot n' fresh Krispy Cremes the quickest.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I would take him #1. I think he is the most valuable dynasty commodity. I've posted the reasons why i think this many times and don't feel like rehashing it.

I traded LJ for Bush straight up in mid-December. I've already heard how stupid i am and so on, but i would do the same trade today.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Am I reading this right? Guys like Najeh, Dayne, Gore, Shelton over Tiki Barber and Warrick Dunn?

They both belong in the top 15. While they wont help you win in 4 years, neither will mediocre RBs like Chris Brown, Julius Jones, Jamal Lewis, Kevin Jones, etc.

Tiki is past the age of thirty as is Dunn. Go to the link for the entire article.http://www.pro-football-reference.com/articles/age.htm

How Important is Age?

Anyone over the age of nineteen knows from personal experience that age is a relevant factor in one's ability to perform physical (and mental) tasks. In this article, I'll examine the aging process and its effects on the physical (and mental) task of piling up fantasy points.

....

Running Backs

TOTAL BETTER AT WORSE AT PCT

N NUMBER AGE N+1 AGE N+1 IMPROVED

-------------------------------------------------------

21 11 5 6 45

22 43 23 20 54

23 69 40 29 58

24 77 44 33 57

25 62 32 30 52

26 57 31 26 54

27 39 20 19 51

28 34 13 21 38

29 26 10 16 38

30 19 7.5 11.5 39

31+ 12 4 8 33

I feel those RBs I listed above them are in reasonable positions to start but Tiki and Dunn are on borrowed time and for dynasty rankings I feel their talent is negated by the ticking clock.

 

[Avery]

I would take him #1. I think he is the most valuable dynasty commodity. I've posted the reasons why i think this many times and don't feel like rehashing it.

I traded LJ for Bush straight up in mid-December. I've already heard how stupid i am and so on, but i would do the same trade today.

Potentially you could be right, but many confuse a NFL worth vs. a fantasy football worth.

 

[Dope]

What a great question this is...good job Taylor.

In the summer of 1999, our league had it's initial dynasty draft and we included rookies.

1.6 Ricky Williams

1.11 Edge James

RB's in that draft:

1. FT

2. TD

3. Jamama

4. Ricky

5. CuMar

6. Faulk

7. Edge

8. Levens

9. Eddie George

10. Watters

11. Antowain Smith

12. Corey Dillon

13. Skip #######g Hicks

The point is that this guy showed what he can do on a football field and then backed it up with a pro-day that is off the charts.

A faster, more explosive, more agile version of LT2?

Lord.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

definitely top 10 overall, maybe top 5-7.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I would take him #1. I think he is the most valuable dynasty commodity. I've posted the reasons why i think this many times and don't feel like rehashing it.

I traded LJ for Bush straight up in mid-December. I've already heard how stupid i am and so on, but i would do the same trade today.

Potentially you could be right, but many confuse a NFL worth vs. a fantasy football worth.

I agree, but what i am saying is that i feel he is the most valuable FF player in dynasty leagues. IMO he will be a tier 1 FF player for the next 8-10 years barring major injury (he hasn't had any major injuries yet, so as of now he as low a risk injury wise as anyone).When people just talk about carries as the reason he won't be a great FF player it makes no sense, Reggie Bush will get enough TOUCHES to be a tier 1 RB, much like Faulk in his Ram haydays.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I would take him #1.  I think he is the most valuable dynasty commodity.  I've posted the reasons why i think this many times and don't feel like rehashing it.

I traded LJ for Bush straight up in mid-December.  I've already heard how stupid i am and so on, but i would do the same trade today.

Potentially you could be right, but many confuse a NFL worth vs. a fantasy football worth.

I agree, but what i am saying is that i feel he is the most valuable FF player in dynasty leagues. IMO he will be a tier 1 FF player for the next 8-10 years barring major injury (he hasn't had any major injuries yet, so as of now he as low a risk injury wise as anyone).When people just talk about carries as the reason he won't be a great FF player it makes no sense, Reggie Bush will get enough TOUCHES to be a tier 1 RB, much like Faulk in his Ram haydays.

I agree with 100%. Faulk had about 250-260 carries during his fantasy glory years with the rams.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I have him at #5 behind CP, LJ, LT, and SA.

 

[Avery]

I have him at #5 behind CP, LJ, LT, and SA.

I don't know why but Calvin Pace was the first "CP" to pop into my head.I'm assuming that "CP" is Clinton Portis, not Carson Palmer, since we're talking RBs here.

 

[JayMan]

I would only rank Tomlinson, Johnson and Portis above Bush...

Either:

1. You get the RB that will carry your team to glory for years to come;

or

2. You have someone in your league that would let you sleep with his wife to have Bush... and you can get Portis & Fitzgerald for him (his 1st 2 rounders) - you add your 2nd pick (20th overall or so) - let's say: Cadillac... and you have the backbone of your team for a while...

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I agree, but what i am saying is that i feel he is the most valuable FF player in dynasty leagues. IMO he will be a tier 1 FF player for the next 8-10 years barring major injury (he hasn't had any major injuries yet, so as of now he as low a risk injury wise as anyone).

Their is no way to judge injury but some have tried in the past. An older article from Fantasy MasterMind that I can no longer find on their site but kept part of the story because it had good info if what they had found in regards to RB fantasy production.

... determine the most significant implications of predicting the RB position. The first and most important of the three significance implications of the RB position is likelihood of injury.

There is a method in which any individual can, with a high degree of accuracy, estimate the likelihood of injury to any NFL running back. While there is no clear cut method that is infallible, there are several factors that will determine the preseason production value of a RB when predicting their injury likelihood. Those factors include touches (carries and receptions), past injury, age, size, and projected use.

We will begin by analyzing and breakin’ down “touches”, which is the most important of these five factors and includes carries and receptions by a running back.

... there is no magic number or rule surrounding fantasy football with RB touches such as the 3 year wide receiver rule, I believe there certainly should be one. The first major red flag is the 400 touch plateau. Very few RBs yearly have the ability to make it to the 400 plus touches plateau in the NFL in a year, but for those who do, beware.

The next one year plateau of touches to be aware of is 370 touches or more.

After two consecutive years, any starting back totaling over 730 touches and especially those backs totaling over 800 touches, are in extreme danger of a significant injury or nagging injuries in the third year. Although the real plateau to be worried about is over 800 touches in 2 years time, as is documented above, there have been several backs having between 730-800 touches after two years, who have struggled to stay healthy in the following season.

... the importance of past injury, age, size, and projected use when it comes to injury projections. Past injury should vastly determine the likelihood-of-injury scale

Age may be the most obvious of the five factors with the over 30 rule being pretty sound. For those of you in the woods, if a back is over 30, be very careful and handcuff him accordingly. Size is also a “no brainer” as a factor when it comes to a RB injury. If a RB is small in both height and weight, the odds go up. Another important factor within the realm of size is the lanky RB (tall in height, light in weight). Running backs Chris Brown (6-3, 219) and DeShaun Foster (6-0, 222) should immediately come to mind. They are prime examples of a RB with too much height, not enough weight, and most importantly an upright running style. There are very few taller backs that stay alive running upright in the NFL.

The last factor, projected use, ties in heavily with the first factor of touches. For instance, Clinton Portis had 383 touches in 2004 for the Washington Redskins. In 2005, the projections for touches would suggest he would have a similar number, thus decreasing the likelihood of him making it through ‘05 starting more than 12 games. A prime example of this is last year with both Priest Holmes and Jamal Lewis, both of whom had a ton of touches in 2004 (Holmes 394 and Lewis 413). Most NFL experts expected both backs to carry the load for their teams in 2005, however both ended up missing significant time in 2005 as already documented.

Per Reggie. He is light for a RB but especially for a six foot RB. He prolly isn't going to be getting lots of carries but with receptions may average out to solid touches but another factor that could impinge his touches is RBBC which he'll be in.

 

[dgreen]

The best way to gauge dynasty value is to ask: Would I trade X for Y? So, you wouldn't trade away Brian Westbrook, Julius Jones, or Jamal Lewis for Reggie Bush?

Counter questions would be

Why are there counter questions? These counter questions are just the questions that would lead you to answer "Would you trade X for Y" one way or the other. If I was offered 1.01 for Westy, Jamal, or JJ, I'd take it in a second. I'm surprised anyone in dynasty would rather have Jamal, Westy, or JJ over Bush. I have Westy in one league. If I offered him for 1.01, I'd be laughed at.

 

[aussiehockeyfan]

In 2004, in the same situation, I spent a late 2nd rounder on Steven Jackson.

So minimum, you should look at him from the mid-2nd round onwards. And realistically, if you really want Bush, you should start to look at him at the end of the 1st.

 

[EBF]

High.

 

[thayman]

In a start up dynasty, I'd try to go after him early, and then trade him for a couple of studs.

I think Bush is going to be a good/great player, but everyone has him so highly rated, you can make out in a bidding war.

 

[dgreen]

I have him at #5 behind CP, LJ, LT, and SA.

I'd guess it would take one of those four to get 1.01 in many leagues. Anything less would have to include something else in the deal.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I have him at #5 behind CP, LJ, LT, and SA.

I'd guess it would take one of those four to get 1.01 in many leagues. Anything less would have to include something else in the deal.

yup, to get 1.1 that is what you'd have to give.I'm in 2 dynasties. In one i gave up LJ for 1.1.

In the other i offered Steven Jackson/AJ/1.10/all my 2007 picks and was turned down.

 

[BigJim®]

The best way to gauge dynasty value is to ask: Would I trade X for Y? So, you wouldn't trade away Brian Westbrook, Julius Jones, or Jamal Lewis for Reggie Bush?

Counter questions would be, what have, Jamal Lewis/Brian Westbrook/Julius Jones done to prove themselves in the league?What has Reggie Bush done?

What situation are Jam/Westy/JJ in?

What situation is Bush in?

Situation = Scheme/fit/coaching

How many touches?

Age?

Injury?

Talent/upside.

I look at as much as possible to figure out how they dynasty RBs and I feel I wieght the different factors accordingly but YMMV.

You may consider all of these questions you mention, but the bottom line absolutely is "Would I trade Brian Westbrook for Reggie Bush?" If you are using questions/considerations that result in you determining "No, I would not trade Westbrook for Bush" then I'd say the questions/considerations are not very useful.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Why are there counter questions? These counter questions are just the questions that would lead you to answer "Would you trade X for Y" one way or the other. If I was offered 1.01 for Westy, Jamal, or JJ, I'd take it in a second. I'm surprised anyone in dynasty would rather have Jamal, Westy, or JJ over Bush. I have Westy in one league. If I offered him for 1.01, I'd be laughed at.

Not sure of your dynasty rookie draft history. I haven't seen any rookie RBs who have come into the league over the last three years who had better seasons than the best years of the RBs listed above Bush.FWIW I am in a 12 man dynasty league. My RBs, LJ, Jam, Deuce McAllister, and Ced Benson. I hold the top two picks in our rookie/dynasty draft along with the fifth pick. Reggie is the first pick and I'm leaning De'Angelo with the second. I know how rookies have performed in the past. I took Ced Benson last year with the first pick. I've seen how other top can't miss rookie RBs have fared. I seen enough hyperbolic rookie RB rankings to place them into context. But to ask if you would trade player X for player Z doesn't take into account many things because the implied question is based on talent alone and that isn't how I got the first two picks and the fifth picks in my draft. I got them by constantly buying players low on the waiver wire then looking at rosters and making offers when other owners were in need. Over the last five months I traded, Chris Brown and Chester Taylor for the pick that became the first pick in the draft. My opinion of Bush is he's too talented to pass up but I have reservations with his size and the amount of touches he'll get in a RBBC. I just completed a deal yesterday of trading away, Cedric Houston, Eric Shelton, Ryan Moats, plus the #8 pick in this draft and second round picks in this and next year's draft for the #5 pick this year and the same owner's first round pick next year. You might say, that deal sucks for me but I know why I made the deal. I'm covered at RB with solid starters and enough yute to develop a project but can't carry that many backs. I would have had a hard time fitting in two top stud RBs on my loaded roster. Additionally I want to try and begin buying lottery tickets for next year's draft with Adrian Peterson and already I have an extra chit in that game. So its more than just player X for player Z. I feel your question implies would you make a deal based on talent alone and I don't make deals with checkers logic when the game is chess. For rankings I still have Bush where I have him and I have factored in many things, your trade proposal logic doesn't work for how I make deals.

 

[Burning Sensation]

I value youth more than most in dynasty leagues. I have Bush in the Caddy/SJax range, and i probably prefer those two over all RB's other than maybe LT and possibly LJ.

 

[Couch Potato]

I have him at #5 behind CP, LJ, LT, and SA.

I don't know why but Calvin Pace was the first "CP" to pop into my head.

I thought he had me ranked #1.

 

[Miscellaneous]

Why are there counter questions? These counter questions are just the questions that would lead you to answer "Would you trade X for Y" one way or the other. If I was offered 1.01 for Westy, Jamal, or JJ, I'd take it in a second. I'm surprised anyone in dynasty would rather have Jamal, Westy, or JJ over Bush. I have Westy in one league. If I offered him for 1.01, I'd be laughed at.

Over the last five months I traded, Chris Brown and Chester Taylor for the pick that became the first pick in the draft. My opinion of Bush is he's too talented to pass up but I have reservations with his size and the amount of touches he'll get in a RBBC. I just completed a deal yesterday of trading away, Cedric Houston, Eric Shelton, Ryan Moats, plus the #8 pick in this draft and second round picks in this and next year's draft for the #5 pick this year and the same owner's first round pick next year. You might say, that deal sucks for me but I know why I made the deal. I'm covered at RB with solid starters and enough yute to develop a project but can't carry that many backs. I would have had a hard time fitting in two top stud RBs on my loaded roster. Additionally I want to try and begin buying lottery tickets for next year's draft with Adrian Peterson and already I have an extra chit in that game. So its more than just player X for player Z.

I feel your question implies would you make a deal based on talent alone and I don't make deals with checkers logic when the game is chess. For rankings I still have Bush where I have him and I have factored in many things, your trade proposal logic doesn't work for how I make deals.

Dude, all that stuff ^^^ is just you talking to hear yourself talk. All the poster said was, all else being equal, no other components to the trade, would you trade player X for player Y? We're not taking into account who you have on your roster, or what you need in terms of youth/guaranteed production, or if you can trade three wide receivers and a draft pick for somebody.Would you trade Jamal Lewis for Reggie Bush?

Would you trade Reggie Bush for Julius Jones?

We're simply asking what his value is relative to all other RBs in the league.

 

[datonn]

So am I really gonna be the first guy in The Shark Pool to express surprise that no one saw the title to this thread and thought it was a misplaced thread that belonged in the "FFA" or "Champagne Room"?!

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Dude, all that stuff ^^^ is just you talking to hear yourself talk. All the poster said was, all else being equal, no other components to the trade, would you trade player X for player Y? We're not taking into account who you have on your roster, or what you need in terms of youth/guaranteed production, or if you can trade three wide receivers and a draft pick for somebody.Would you trade Jamal Lewis for Reggie Bush?Would you trade Reggie Bush for Julius Jones?We're simply asking what his value is relative to all other RBs in the league.

The original question was where do you have Bush ranked, I answered. The reply you mention said that the way to rank players in on a strict criteria of would you trade player X for player Z which isn't how I make decicions on how to value trades, its more complez and that is why I pointed out part of my reasoning to make the trades I mentioned. So no, I don't base my ranking decisions on a simple criteria which tries to corner the decision simply on talent aloine. Player rankings are based on much more than just would you trade this guy for that guy with the implication the decision is based purely on talent. Dynasty trades take into account much more and so do rankings. Last year I saw Ronnie Brown as the most talented RB but felt he was in the worst situation with Ricky Williams hanging around. I felt Caddy would have the best rookie season but long term I felt Ced Benson was the best play of those backs. He held out, TJ blew up, and to top if off he got injured but knowing then what I knew then I'd make the exact same decision and knowing now what I know now about Reggie Bush I have him ranked accordingly.

 

[SoloMatisse]

Im loving all the Bush hype. Guys trading LJ for him straight up and ranking him in the top 5 of a dynasty? Thats whacky. But hey, the koolaid is ice cold....why not drink it? What's killin' me about this whole situation is how Reggie Bush is going to arguably the worst team in the league with arguably the worst offensive line in the league. David Carr has done nothing. Nothing. That team has downward spiraled, and now it will establish its nucleus around a 200lb running back? Thats just not how you do it. Marshall Faulk wouldnt have done what he did without Orlando Pace, a former #1 overall pick standing in front of him. Shaun Alexander has Walter Jones. Jamal Lewis has Jon Ogden. Priest/Larry have/had Willie Roaf. Portis has Chris Samuels. Edge James had Tarik Glenn...somewhat underappreciated, but nonetheless rock solid. Who is Reggie Bush's left tackle with Houston going to be? Or ANY of his Olinemen for that matter? Can anyone besides a Houston fan answer this or tell me what this line is capable of doing? Bush ran behind a slew of blue chip linemen at SC. Didnt he run behind WInston Justice? A likely rising top 10/15 pick? And the other linemen out of SC? More blue chip 1st day draftees there? Of course. And Houston's line? Who do THEY have? Tell me someone, anyone, and Ill tell you where REggie Bush should be ranked. He's got skills and speed even though he's extremely small for a RB, but for those out there who think he's going to just be a top 5 dynasty player because he's going to get a certain amount of touches without any help up front in the trenches....where games are won and stars are made.....youre not cluing in to a major part of what makes great players great......the rest of the team. For now, Id rank Reggie Bush nowhere near the top 10 in a dynasty or near the 3rd round of a redraft. That team stinks!

 

[Liquid Tension]

I would take him #1.  I think he is the most valuable dynasty commodity.  I've posted the reasons why i think this many times and don't feel like rehashing it.

I traded LJ for Bush straight up in mid-December.  I've already heard how stupid i am and so on, but i would do the same trade today.

Potentially you could be right, but many confuse a NFL worth vs. a fantasy football worth.

I agree, but what i am saying is that i feel he is the most valuable FF player in dynasty leagues. IMO he will be a tier 1 FF player for the next 8-10 years barring major injury (he hasn't had any major injuries yet, so as of now he as low a risk injury wise as anyone).When people just talk about carries as the reason he won't be a great FF player it makes no sense, Reggie Bush will get enough TOUCHES to be a tier 1 RB, much like Faulk in his Ram haydays.

I agree with 100%. Faulk had about 250-260 carries during his fantasy glory years with the rams.

I have the number one pick (and hope you are right) but your thought process leads to DANGEROUS moves and is a recipe for disaster. While you may be right, more times than not you will be wrong. One VERY important thing to remember was that Faulk was on teams that had bad defenses and explosive offenses leading to many TD's. The opportunity and the talent must exist.BTW, Faulk came out of the gate with Indy and had 368 touches in his rookie year. As for the two fantastic years with Indy, Faulk did not have a ton of carries but he averaged 339 touches and scored 23.5 TD's (47 for both years) Just for comparison, Bush had 237 touches and 18 TD's last year. You are going to have a hard time convincing me that 43% more punishment from faster, stronger guys isn't going to have any effect on him. Again, I am not saying it can't happen, but what I am saying is that if you had to bet money, put aside the euphoria and make a good business decision, you have to come to the conclusion that the odds are he will not be as good as Faulk.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Im loving all the Bush hype.  Guys trading LJ for him straight up and ranking him in the top 5 of a dynasty?  Thats whacky.  But hey, the koolaid is ice cold....why not drink it?  What's killin' me about this whole situation is how Reggie Bush is going to arguably the worst team in the league with arguably the worst offensive line in the league.  David Carr has done nothing.  Nothing.  That team has downward spiraled, and now it will establish its nucleus around a 200lb running back?  Thats just not how you do it.  Marshall Faulk wouldnt have done what he did without Orlando Pace, a former #1 overall pick standing in front of him.  Shaun Alexander has Walter Jones.  Jamal Lewis has Jon Ogden.  Priest/Larry have/had Willie Roaf.  Portis has Chris Samuels.  Edge James had Tarik Glenn...somewhat underappreciated, but nonetheless rock solid.  Who is Reggie Bush's left tackle with Houston going to be?  Or ANY of his Olinemen for that matter?  Can anyone besides a Houston fan answer this or tell me what this line is capable of doing?  Bush ran behind a slew of blue chip linemen at SC.  Didnt he run behind WInston Justice?  A likely rising top 10/15 pick?  And the other linemen out of SC?  More blue chip 1st day draftees there?  Of course.  And Houston's line?  Who do THEY have?  Tell me someone, anyone, and Ill tell you where REggie Bush should be ranked.  He's got skills and speed even though he's extremely small for  a RB, but for those out there who think he's going to just be a top 5 dynasty player because he's going to get a certain amount of touches without any help up front in the trenches....where games are won and stars are made.....youre not cluing in to a major part of what makes great players great......the rest of the team.  For now, Id rank Reggie Bush nowhere near the top 10 in a dynasty or near the 3rd round of a redraft.  That team stinks!

How good was San Diego when they got their multi-talented RB in 2001? How was their supporting cast? Does 31st in rushing the previous year sound about right?BTW, if Dom Davis can be a top 10 fantasy back in Houston, I think Bush, who is just a SMIDGE more talented, will manage.

 

[jurb26]

I would put Bush in my top 10 for sure, possibly in the top 5. I can't see putting him ahead of any of these guys: SA, LJ, LT, Portis. Anyone else is fair game IMO. Bush could come as high as 5 but no lower than 12 IMO.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I would put Bush in my top 10 for sure, possibly in the top 5. I can't see putting him ahead of any of these guys: SA, LJ, LT, Portis. Anyone else is fair game IMO. Bush could come as high as 5 but no lower than 12 IMO.

I think this is right in line as being fair. You could argue about 7 pther guys who have great ability, but anyone else is probably stretching it a little.

 

[SoloMatisse]

Im loving all the Bush hype.  Guys trading LJ for him straight up and ranking him in the top 5 of a dynasty?  Thats whacky.  But hey, the koolaid is ice cold....why not drink it?  What's killin' me about this whole situation is how Reggie Bush is going to arguably the worst team in the league with arguably the worst offensive line in the league.  David Carr has done nothing.  Nothing.  That team has downward spiraled, and now it will establish its nucleus around a 200lb running back?  Thats just not how you do it.   Marshall Faulk wouldnt have done what he did without Orlando Pace, a former #1 overall pick standing in front of him.  Shaun Alexander has Walter Jones.  Jamal Lewis has Jon Ogden.   Priest/Larry have/had Willie Roaf.  Portis has Chris Samuels.  Edge James had Tarik Glenn...somewhat underappreciated, but nonetheless rock solid.  Who is Reggie Bush's left tackle with Houston going to be?  Or ANY of his Olinemen for that matter?  Can anyone besides a Houston fan answer this or tell me what this line is capable of doing?  Bush ran behind a slew of blue chip linemen at SC.  Didnt he run behind WInston Justice?  A likely rising top 10/15 pick?  And the other linemen out of SC?  More blue chip 1st day draftees there?  Of course.  And Houston's line?  Who do THEY have?   Tell me someone, anyone, and Ill tell you where REggie Bush should be ranked.  He's got skills and speed even though he's extremely small for  a RB, but for those out there who think he's going to just be a top 5 dynasty player because he's going to get a certain amount of touches without any help up front in the trenches....where games are won and stars are made.....youre not cluing in to a major part of what makes great players great......the rest of the team.  For now, Id rank Reggie Bush nowhere near the top 10 in a dynasty or near the 3rd round of a redraft.  That team stinks!

How good was San Diego when they got their multi-talented RB in 2001? How was their supporting cast? Does 31st in rushing the previous year sound about right?BTW, if Dom Davis can be a top 10 fantasy back in Houston, I think Bush, who is just a SMIDGE more talented, will manage.

Are we honestly comparing Ladainian Tomlinson to Reggie Bush? Cmon....be serious already. the next Marshall Faulk...the next LT2.....this is pretty ridiculous. LT2 is an abberation.....he's got both POWER and speed. Bush is roughly the size of Torry Holt. Bush in about the 20 spot of any ranking 'sounds about right'.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Im loving all the Bush hype.  Guys trading LJ for him straight up and ranking him in the top 5 of a dynasty?  Thats whacky.  But hey, the koolaid is ice cold....why not drink it?  What's killin' me about this whole situation is how Reggie Bush is going to arguably the worst team in the league with arguably the worst offensive line in the league.  David Carr has done nothing.  Nothing.  That team has downward spiraled, and now it will establish its nucleus around a 200lb running back?  Thats just not how you do it.   Marshall Faulk wouldnt have done what he did without Orlando Pace, a former #1 overall pick standing in front of him.  Shaun Alexander has Walter Jones.  Jamal Lewis has Jon Ogden.   Priest/Larry have/had Willie Roaf.  Portis has Chris Samuels.  Edge James had Tarik Glenn...somewhat underappreciated, but nonetheless rock solid.  Who is Reggie Bush's left tackle with Houston going to be?  Or ANY of his Olinemen for that matter?  Can anyone besides a Houston fan answer this or tell me what this line is capable of doing?  Bush ran behind a slew of blue chip linemen at SC.  Didnt he run behind WInston Justice?  A likely rising top 10/15 pick?  And the other linemen out of SC?  More blue chip 1st day draftees there?  Of course.  And Houston's line?  Who do THEY have?   Tell me someone, anyone, and Ill tell you where REggie Bush should be ranked.  He's got skills and speed even though he's extremely small for  a RB, but for those out there who think he's going to just be a top 5 dynasty player because he's going to get a certain amount of touches without any help up front in the trenches....where games are won and stars are made.....youre not cluing in to a major part of what makes great players great......the rest of the team.  For now, Id rank Reggie Bush nowhere near the top 10 in a dynasty or near the 3rd round of a redraft.  That team stinks!

How good was San Diego when they got their multi-talented RB in 2001? How was their supporting cast? Does 31st in rushing the previous year sound about right?BTW, if Dom Davis can be a top 10 fantasy back in Houston, I think Bush, who is just a SMIDGE more talented, will manage.

Are we honestly comparing Ladainian Tomlinson to Reggie Bush? Cmon....be serious already. the next Marshall Faulk...the next LT2.....this is pretty ridiculous. LT2 is an abberation.....he's got both POWER and speed. Bush is roughly the size of Torry Holt. Bush in about the 20 spot of any ranking 'sounds about right'.

I'm not necessarily comparing the players, I am comparing the situations which is primarily what YOU were talking about. You said (paraphrasing here) Bush's SITUATION sucks too much for him to be successful. I'm saying that if a guy is very talented, it doesn't matter as much what his situation looks like.Plus, you didn't address my SECOND, more obvious point. If the supporting cast is so darn horrible, how is it that Dom Davis (a guy I view as a very marginal NFL talent) consistently put up good to very good fantasy stats?

Finally, though you are clearly and somewhat understandably tired of the massive Bush hype after his workout, if you want to talk about something that's REALLY tired and overblown, keep talking about Bush's size. Barber has been one of the best RBs in the league for YEARS at almost exactly Bush's size. Oh yeah, and he's missed TWO games in 8 years, a whole lot less than some of those big "durable" backs. He also has the same basic size as Curtis Martin - another one of those fragile "extremely small" backs.

 

[sib]

I'm not necessarily comparing the players, I am comparing the situations which is primarily what YOU were talking about. You said (paraphrasing here) Bush's SITUATION sucks too much for him to be successful. I'm saying that if a guy is very talented, it doesn't matter as much what his situation looks like.

Plus, you didn't address my SECOND, more obvious point. If the supporting cast is so darn horrible, how is it that Dom Davis (a guy I view as a very marginal NFL talent) consistently put up good to very good fantasy stats?

Finally, though you are clearly and somewhat understandably tired of the massive Bush hype after his workout, if you want to talk about something that's REALLY tired and overblown, keep talking about Bush's size. Barber has been one of the best RBs in the league for YEARS at almost exactly Bush's size. Oh yeah, and he's missed TWO games in 8 years, a whole lot less than some of those big "durable" backs. He also has the same basic size as Curtis Martin - another one of those fragile "extremely small" backs.

Agree, the size thing is way overblown. Guys like Barber, CMart, Portis, Faulk have similar frames and have been very succsessful. And let's not forget..this kid Bush is either 21 years old or turning 21 this year. It's not like he'll never gain another pound of muscle again lol. He'll add more weight to his frame. Now will he ever be 230 pounds?? No. But he won't stick at 200 pounds or whatever he is for the rest of his career. Geez the guy is just old enough to order a drink now

 

[Liquid Tension]

How good was San Diego when they got their multi-talented RB in 2001? How was their supporting cast? Does 31st in rushing the previous year sound about right?

BTW, if Dom Davis can be a top 10 fantasy back in Houston, I think Bush, who is just a SMIDGE more talented, will manage.

Are we honestly comparing Ladainian Tomlinson to Reggie Bush? Cmon....be serious already. the next Marshall Faulk...the next LT2.....this is pretty ridiculous. LT2 is an abberation.....he's got both POWER and speed. Bush is roughly the size of Torry Holt. Bush in about the 20 spot of any ranking 'sounds about right'.

I'm not necessarily comparing the players, I am comparing the situations which is primarily what YOU were talking about. You said (paraphrasing here) Bush's SITUATION sucks too much for him to be successful. I'm saying that if a guy is very talented, it doesn't matter as much what his situation looks like.

Plus, you didn't address my SECOND, more obvious point. If the supporting cast is so darn horrible, how is it that Dom Davis (a guy I view as a very marginal NFL talent) consistently put up good to very good fantasy stats?

Finally, though you are clearly and somewhat understandably tired of the massive Bush hype after his workout, if you want to talk about something that's REALLY tired and overblown, keep talking about Bush's size. Barber has been one of the best RBs in the league for YEARS at almost exactly Bush's size. Oh yeah, and he's missed TWO games in 8 years, a whole lot less than some of those big "durable" backs. He also has the same basic size as Curtis Martin - another one of those fragile "extremely small" backs.

1) The situation DOES matter; look at the ultra talented McGahee

2) I agree that the situation in Houston is not nearly as bad as stated. If DD can be effective so could Bush. However, with DD, Bush will have trouble being a top 15 back.

3) While Barber has been great the last few years, he was not all that great a fantasy option for all the years prior. In general I am not a fan of the lighter backs, because they don't usually withstand the beating, but there are always exceptions.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

How good was San Diego when they got their multi-talented RB in 2001? How was their supporting cast? Does 31st in rushing the previous year sound about right?

BTW, if Dom Davis can be a top 10 fantasy back in Houston, I think Bush, who is just a SMIDGE more talented, will manage.

Are we honestly comparing Ladainian Tomlinson to Reggie Bush? Cmon....be serious already. the next Marshall Faulk...the next LT2.....this is pretty ridiculous. LT2 is an abberation.....he's got both POWER and speed. Bush is roughly the size of Torry Holt. Bush in about the 20 spot of any ranking 'sounds about right'.

I'm not necessarily comparing the players, I am comparing the situations which is primarily what YOU were talking about. You said (paraphrasing here) Bush's SITUATION sucks too much for him to be successful. I'm saying that if a guy is very talented, it doesn't matter as much what his situation looks like.

Plus, you didn't address my SECOND, more obvious point. If the supporting cast is so darn horrible, how is it that Dom Davis (a guy I view as a very marginal NFL talent) consistently put up good to very good fantasy stats?

Finally, though you are clearly and somewhat understandably tired of the massive Bush hype after his workout, if you want to talk about something that's REALLY tired and overblown, keep talking about Bush's size. Barber has been one of the best RBs in the league for YEARS at almost exactly Bush's size. Oh yeah, and he's missed TWO games in 8 years, a whole lot less than some of those big "durable" backs. He also has the same basic size as Curtis Martin - another one of those fragile "extremely small" backs.

1) The situation DOES matter; look at the ultra talented McGahee

2) I agree that the situation in Houston is not nearly as bad as stated. If DD can be effective so could Bush. However, with DD, Bush will have trouble being a top 15 back.

3) While Barber has been great the last few years, he was not all that great a fantasy option for all the years prior. In general I am not a fan of the lighter backs, because they don't usually withstand the beating, but there are always exceptions.

1) McGahee is NOT the great talent everybody thought he was. At least not after the mangled knee. I've been saying that for literally years. McGahee would struggle anywhere.

2) If Bush goes to Houston, DD is a backup, pure and simple. He might see SLIGHTLY more carries than your average backup, and that won't hurt Bush AT ALL if he's the talent he seems to be.

3) Barber has AVERAGED 1890 total yards for the last SIX YEARS. Not exactly "fluky". Name a big "durable" back who has accomplished that recently.

Edit:

Thinking about the bigger, heavier backs. Who is the model for durability? Alexander has been very durable, but what about the rest of the bigger guys from recent years?

Edge, Lewis have both blown knees. McGahee's not what he once was becuase of injury. Perhaps you had the big strong, Fred Taylor or Chris Brown in mind? Steven Jackson? Deuce McAllister? Mike Anderson? Stephen Davis? Ricky Williams? The fact is I can't see ANY correlation between size/weight and RB durability.

The one true paragon of durability has been Curtis Martin. Kind of ironic that he happens to be about 200 pounds. Then we have the irony of Dunn/Duckett over the past two years. 180 pound Dunn hasn't missed a game while accumulating over 600 touches the last two years while 250 pound Duckett can't seem to stay on the field after his 230 touches in the same stretch.

Thing is, Bush could hurt himself on his first NFL carry (knock on wood he doesn't), but so could ANY NFL RB of any size - it's just a rough position to play.

 

[dgreen]

But to ask if you would trade player X for player Z doesn't take into account many things because the implied question is based on talent alone and that isn't how I got the first two picks and the fifth picks in my draft.

The trade question takes everything into account. I don't see how you can see it any other way.Do I want X or Y? How does that not take everything into account? How is that only taking talent into account?

 

[Crippler]

Every year the hype goes just like this for the top RB in the draft.

Anyways how have the backs done going back. I will use my home league for data since only one I know back to 1997 rookie.

1997 Antwain Smith, Troy Davis, WArrick Dunn, Corey Dillon

1998 Curtis Enis, Robert Edwards, Robert Holcombe, Fred Taylor

1999 Edge James, Ricky Williams, Cecil Collins, Kevin Faulk

2000 Ron Dayne. Thomas Jones, Jamal Lewis, Shaun Alexander

AT this point we did 1st round of draft hours before NFL draft begins

2001 Deuce McAllister, Ladian Tomlinson, Micheal Bennett, Lamont Jordan

2002 William Green, TJ Duckett,. Deshaun Foster, Clinton Portis

2003 Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee, Onterrio Smith, Lee Suggs

2004 Stephon Jackson. KEvin Jones. Chris Perry, Julius Jones

2005 Ron Brown, Cedric Benson, Caddy Williams, JJ Arrington

Please note that Larry Johnson was traded for not much in this league at one point. In another league I know I got him as a throwin. His value at one point was dismal with Vermeil talking about trading him and asking about diapers. Can you imagine the start of 2004 and offering up Johnson for the 5th rookie. Laughed at.

I think you can get stars at any point and that draft success is risky. Bush does not get much more hype than alot of other RB's out there. happens every year. He may end up a stud but one never knows. I dont like the size issue when looking at this list and success of small RB's. I am thinking Dunn like career. Good but not LT like in the end.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The trade question takes everything into account. I don't see how you can see it any other way.

Do I want X or Y? How does that not take everything into account? How is that only taking talent into account?

For a dynasty trade their is much more to take into account.I have no information about current players on a roster. What the size of the league is which is critical in how talent is dispersed. Their is no insight into how other owners will operate, how they value players, what you see as their strategy and how you can position your team the best way against them.

So I don't agree that using the, player X for player Z criteria takes EVERYTHING into account. That isn't how I conduct trades. The criticism of my dynasty RB rankings from the angle that I have to rank players based on that simple criteria is built on a flawed premise that I use that simple criteria to make trades which I don't and therefore don't rank players on how I make trades.

 

[dgreen]

The trade question takes everything into account. I don't see how you can see it any other way.

Do I want X or Y? How does that not take everything into account? How is that only taking talent into account?

For a dynasty trade their is much more to take into account.

When you can answer the question "Do I want X or Y," you've already taken everything you deem relevant into account. Do you make trades without taking everything into account?

I have no information about current players on a roster. What the size of the league is which is critical in how talent is dispersed. Their is no insight into how other owners will operate, how they value players, what you see as their strategy and how you can position your team the best way against them.

Those are just things that can lead you to answering the trade question. And, these are things you consider if you are trading one position for another. Do I like Manning or Portis? Well, if I'm weak at QB and strong at RB, I might prefer Manning.But, in this example, none of that matters. Julius Jones and Reggie Bush play the same position, so you aren't changing the makeup of your roster. Whether you are a roster with 1 RB or 10 RBs, you are swapping a RB for a RB.

So I don't agree that using the, player X for player Z criteria takes EVERYTHING into account. That isn't how I conduct trades. The criticism of my dynasty RB rankings from the angle that I have to rank players based on that simple criteria is built on a flawed premise that I use that simple criteria to make trades which I don't and therefore don't rank players on how I make trades.

I agree that dynasty makes discussions of "who is more valuable" a liitle more difficult because of current strengths and weaknesses on a team. Certain decision can depend on your roster or whether you are rebuilding or trying to make a one-year run.Regardless, the question stands: Would you trade away Reggie Bush to get Julius Jones? If so, what is it about your team/league that leads you to value JJ more than Bush?

 

[Q-Bert]

Im loving all the Bush hype.  Guys trading LJ for him straight up and ranking him in the top 5 of a dynasty?  Thats whacky.  But hey, the koolaid is ice cold....why not drink it?  What's killin' me about this whole situation is how Reggie Bush is going to arguably the worst team in the league with arguably the worst offensive line in the league.  David Carr has done nothing.  Nothing.  That team has downward spiraled, and now it will establish its nucleus around a 200lb running back?  Thats just not how you do it.   Marshall Faulk wouldnt have done what he did without Orlando Pace, a former #1 overall pick standing in front of him.  Shaun Alexander has Walter Jones.  Jamal Lewis has Jon Ogden.   Priest/Larry have/had Willie Roaf.  Portis has Chris Samuels.  Edge James had Tarik Glenn...somewhat underappreciated, but nonetheless rock solid.  Who is Reggie Bush's left tackle with Houston going to be?  Or ANY of his Olinemen for that matter?  Can anyone besides a Houston fan answer this or tell me what this line is capable of doing?  Bush ran behind a slew of blue chip linemen at SC.  Didnt he run behind WInston Justice?  A likely rising top 10/15 pick?  And the other linemen out of SC?  More blue chip 1st day draftees there?  Of course.  And Houston's line?  Who do THEY have?   Tell me someone, anyone, and Ill tell you where REggie Bush should be ranked.  He's got skills and speed even though he's extremely small for  a RB, but for those out there who think he's going to just be a top 5 dynasty player because he's going to get a certain amount of touches without any help up front in the trenches....where games are won and stars are made.....youre not cluing in to a major part of what makes great players great......the rest of the team.  For now, Id rank Reggie Bush nowhere near the top 10 in a dynasty or near the 3rd round of a redraft.  That team stinks!

How good was San Diego when they got their multi-talented RB in 2001? How was their supporting cast? Does 31st in rushing the previous year sound about right?BTW, if Dom Davis can be a top 10 fantasy back in Houston, I think Bush, who is just a SMIDGE more talented, will manage.

Are we honestly comparing Ladainian Tomlinson to Reggie Bush? Cmon....be serious already. the next Marshall Faulk...the next LT2.....this is pretty ridiculous. LT2 is an abberation.....he's got both POWER and speed. Bush is roughly the size of Torry Holt. Bush in about the 20 spot of any ranking 'sounds about right'.

Bush is not roughly the size of Torry Holt. He is roughly the size of LT2 at the same point in their careers. Posted in another thread

Bush measured 5-10 and 7/8ths. He weighed 201.

Tomlinson measured 5-10 and 3/4ths. He weighed 205.

eta: those #s are from respective combine cattle calls...