All-Time Baseball Team (1 Viewer)

[Doctor Detroit]

Manager: Hughie Jennings

Position Players:

1B Jimmy Foxx: He was one of the orginal beasts.

"I was pitching one day when my glasses clouded up on me. I took them off to polish them. When I looked up to the plate, I saw Jimmie Foxx. The sight of him terrified me so much that I haven't been able to wear glasses since." - Left Gomez

2B Rogers Hornsby .358 lifetime average3B Mike Schmidt : The best 3B ever, he did everthing better than anyone else

SS Honus Wagner: Underrated when it comes time for greatest ever talk. Easily the greatest SS ever.

LF Barry Bonds: OPS+ numbers say he is the second best hitter ever

CF Ty Cobb: Steals, doubles, triples and fire. Best player ever.

"I recall when Cobb played a series with each leg a mass of raw flesh. He had a temperature of 103, and the doctors ordered him to bed for several days, but he got three hits, stole three bases, and won the game."

-- Grantland Rice

RF Babe Ruth Best hitter ever and an underrated athleteC Josh Gibson Best Negro League player; .467 with 55 home runs in 137 games in 1933

Pitchers:

RHSP: Walter Johnson: Might have thrown 104 mph

"The first time I faced him (Walter Johnson) I watched him take that easy windup and then something went past me that made me flinch. The thing just hissed with danger. We couldn't touch him....every one of us knew we'd met the most powerful arm ever turned loose in a ball park." - Ty Cobb

LHSP: Randy Johnson Once in a lifetime talent. If he would have had control in his 20s, he would have K'd more than RyanRHSP: Christy Mathewson: He and Greg Maddux were pretty much the same guy

RHSP: Bob Gibson: Tremendous power pitcher who was feared by all

LHSP: Rube Waddell: Randy Johnson...only completely crazy

"In my opinion, and I suppose if there is any subject that I am qualified to discuss it is pitching, Rube Waddell had more sheer pitching ability than any man I ever saw." -Walter Johnson

"Waddell wrestled alligators in Florida, hung around in firehouses, married two women who then left him, and tended bar when he wasn't the saloon's best customer."

Closer 1: Goose Gossage: To me he perfected the art of closing and in his prime years was almost unhittable. Closer 2: Mariano Rivera Nearly perfect pitcher in his prime and better than most after.

 

[Please See Mine]

Do you mean to actually compete in a fantasy baseball league? Does this have to be based on career or by single season like a WIS league?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Do you mean to actually compete in a fantasy baseball league? Does this have to be based on career or by single season like a WIS league?

Probably career achivement first.Oh and I'll change my catcher to Josh Gibson.

 

[Please See Mine]

Do you mean to actually compete in a fantasy baseball league? Does this have to be based on career or by single season like a WIS league?

Probably career achivement first.Oh and I'll change my catcher to Josh Gibson.

Josh Gibson never played against whites (and possibly latinos, not sure about that), so I'm pretty sure he doesn't count for anything.

 

[shadyridr]

1B- Gehrig

2B- Hornsby

3B- Schmidt

SS- Rodriguez

LF- Bonds

CF- Mays

RF- Ruth

C- Bench

DH- Martinez

SP- Koufax

SP- Clemens

SP- WJohnson

SP- RJohnson

SP- Martinez

Closer- Rivera

 

[Please See Mine]

Also, are we trying to come up with a team that would actually play together and win or just the most talented? If it were the former, I might not choose A-Rod for instance, but go with a Wagner instead, since not everyone in the lineup should hit 50 HRs.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Also, are we trying to come up with a team that would actually play together and win or just the most talented? If it were the former, I might not choose A-Rod for instance, but go with a Wagner instead, since not everyone in the lineup should hit 50 HRs.

The best team you could field I guess would be the answer.

 

[AmpLee]

Okay, here's the team I would put on the field

1B - Gehrig

2B - Roger Hornsby

SS- A-Rod

3B - Mike Schmidt

LF - Ted Williams

CF - Willie Mays

RF - Babe Ruth

C- Josh Gibson

DH - Pete Rose *

SP - Cy Young

SP - Roger Clemens

SP - Pedro Martinez

SP - Sandy Koufax

SP - Tom Seaver

RP- Mariano Rivera

RP- Dennis Eckersly

*If I have to pick a real DH and not just anybody I would pick Paul Molitor

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Okay, here's the team I would put on the field1B - Gehrig2B - Roger HornsbySS- A-Rod3B - Mike SchmidtLF - Ted WilliamsCF - Willie MaysRF - Babe RuthC- Josh GibsonDH - Pete Rose *SP - Cy YoungSP - Roger ClemensSP - Pedro MartinezSP - Sandy KoufaxSP - Tom SeaverRP- Mariano RiveraRP- Dennis Eckersly*If I have to pick a real DH and not just anybody I would pick Paul Molitor

I like your staff besides Cy Young unless you just have him as an innings eater. The funny thing about Cy is that he was probably at no time in his career the best pitcher in the league but those 511 wins kind of stand out as a statistical anomaly. Pedro is probably underrated all-time because of his raw numbers but his + numbers and hsi prime seasons are some of the best ever. Very Koufax like. Seaver and Clemens just steady, always among the best in any year they pitched. Also just noticed I left Ted Williams off my team. He'd be my DH since that probably would have been his best position anyway.

 

[Limp Ditka]

All I know is that Steve Stone would be my GM. He's the solution to all teams problems, so why not mine?

 

[Thunderlips]

RF Rickey Henderson

2B Charlie Gehringer

LF - Barry Bonds

CF- Willie Mays

SS Alex Rodriguez

1B Lou Gehrig

3B Mike Schmidt

C Johnny Bench

SP Bob Gibson

SP Tom Seaver

SP Gred Maddux

SP Nolan Ryan

SP Sandy Koufax

RP Dennis Eckersley

RP Mariano Rivera

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Manager: Hughie Jennings

Position Players:

1B Jimmy Foxx

2B Rogers Hornsby

SS Honus Wagner:

CF Ty Cobb:

RF Babe Ruth

C Josh Gibson

Pitchers:

RHSP: Walter Johnson

RHSP: Christy Mathewson:

LHSP: Rube Waddell:

These guys are all too old and I never saw them play. Thus they suck.

 

[Knightro]

kinda OT but my personal all-time favorite team

C: Brian Harper

1B: Jeff Bagwell

2B: Craig Biggio

SS: Tony Fernandez

3B: Ken Caminiti

OF: Jose Cruz Sr.

OF: Carl Crawford

OF: Kirby Puckett

DH: Fred McGriff

SP: Nolan Ryan

SP: Frank Viola

SP: Dave Stieb

SP: Mark Langston

SP: Johan Santana

RP: Rob Dibble

RP: Tom Henke

CL: Billy Wagner

 

[Koya]

Ill be back in a bit to chime in.

The fact that Lefty Grove, the greatest lefthanded pitcher in the history of the game not named Koufax (or if you look over an entire career and not just the second half, although I still go Koufax because of the sickness that was his second half career) is not even mentioned yet is a sad commentary on the quality of posts here though.

 

[Koya]

Runner(s) up in paranthesis

1B: Gehrig (Foxx)

2B: Hornsby (Gehringer or Lajoie)

SS: Wagner (A Rod, E Banks or Arky Vaughan)

3B: Schmidt (Killebrew or Matthews)

LF: Ted Williams (Musial)

CF: Mays (Cobb)

RF: Ruth (Mantle)

PH (there is no DH in real baseball): E. Martinez

Defensive OF: Tris Speaker

Did this pretty much off the top of my head so might be a couple changes as I think things through.

RHP - Big Train

LHP - Koufax

RHP - Gibson

LHP - L. Grove (Randy Johnson)

RHP - Pedro (P. Alexander)

Starting Pitchers are tough, a few other options that could easily be argued for.

Set Up: Gossage

CL: Rivera

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Ill be back in a bit to chime in.The fact that Lefty Grove, the greatest lefthanded pitcher in the history of the game not named Koufax (or if you look over an entire career and not just the second half, although I still go Koufax because of the sickness that was his second half career) is not even mentioned yet is a sad commentary on the quality of posts here though.

Lefty grove was on my short list but I like power pitchers so I went Waddell and Randy.

 

[Koya]

Ill be back in a bit to chime in.The fact that Lefty Grove, the greatest lefthanded pitcher in the history of the game not named Koufax (or if you look over an entire career and not just the second half, although I still go Koufax because of the sickness that was his second half career) is not even mentioned yet is a sad commentary on the quality of posts here though.

Lefty grove was on my short list but I like power pitchers so I went Waddell and Randy.

Lefty's first 7 years in the league (and he came into the league at a late age) he led the league in shutouts.ALLTIME lefty leader in Adjusted ERA.Led the league in Adjusted ERA 9 out of his 13 seasons (with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and an 8th to round it out).There is very little if any question in my mind that he is better than Randy Johnson and no question at all compared with Waddell.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Ill be back in a bit to chime in.The fact that Lefty Grove, the greatest lefthanded pitcher in the history of the game not named Koufax (or if you look over an entire career and not just the second half, although I still go Koufax because of the sickness that was his second half career) is not even mentioned yet is a sad commentary on the quality of posts here though.

Lefty grove was on my short list but I like power pitchers so I went Waddell and Randy.

Lefty's first 7 years in the league (and he came into the league at a late age) he led the league in shutouts.ALLTIME lefty leader in Adjusted ERA.Led the league in Adjusted ERA 9 out of his 13 seasons (with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and an 8th to round it out).There is very little if any question in my mind that he is better than Randy Johnson and no question at all compared with Waddell.

No doubt Lefty was better over his career than either but those two had a higher upside in their prime years IMO.Waddell's career was cut short as you know but he led the league in K's 6 straight years, was first in adjusted ERA three times and his 1905 season was one of the best ever. He only played ten full years so it's hard to compare him to most of the great pitchers in baseball history as far as career contribution but he really had some outstanding years nonetheless. Plus he was a booze and woman hound. He's my guy.

 

[Koya]

Ill be back in a bit to chime in.The fact that Lefty Grove, the greatest lefthanded pitcher in the history of the game not named Koufax (or if you look over an entire career and not just the second half, although I still go Koufax because of the sickness that was his second half career) is not even mentioned yet is a sad commentary on the quality of posts here though.

Lefty grove was on my short list but I like power pitchers so I went Waddell and Randy.

Lefty's first 7 years in the league (and he came into the league at a late age) he led the league in shutouts.ALLTIME lefty leader in Adjusted ERA.Led the league in Adjusted ERA 9 out of his 13 seasons (with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and an 8th to round it out).There is very little if any question in my mind that he is better than Randy Johnson and no question at all compared with Waddell.

No doubt Lefty was better over his career than either but those two had a higher upside in their prime years IMO.Waddell's career was cut short as you know but he led the league in K's 6 straight years, was first in adjusted ERA three times and his 1905 season was one of the best ever. He only played ten full years so it's hard to compare him to most of the great pitchers in baseball history as far as career contribution but he really had some outstanding years nonetheless. Plus he was a booze and woman hound. He's my guy.

Lefty had a relatively short ML career as well, as he was in the "high minors" for a while, if I recall. Regardless, even at their extended peak I dont see an arguement for Waddell here. Lefty on the Left, Waddell on the Right:2 / 1 Triple Crowns9 / 3 ERA+ Crowns (9/2 in raw ERA)7 / 6 K Crowns (consecutive in each case)5 / 1 WHIP CrownsI could see an arguement for a number of pitchers to be up there, but Waddell doesnt make it for me.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Ill be back in a bit to chime in.The fact that Lefty Grove, the greatest lefthanded pitcher in the history of the game not named Koufax (or if you look over an entire career and not just the second half, although I still go Koufax because of the sickness that was his second half career) is not even mentioned yet is a sad commentary on the quality of posts here though.

Lefty grove was on my short list but I like power pitchers so I went Waddell and Randy.

Lefty's first 7 years in the league (and he came into the league at a late age) he led the league in shutouts.ALLTIME lefty leader in Adjusted ERA.Led the league in Adjusted ERA 9 out of his 13 seasons (with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and an 8th to round it out).There is very little if any question in my mind that he is better than Randy Johnson and no question at all compared with Waddell.

No doubt Lefty was better over his career than either but those two had a higher upside in their prime years IMO.Waddell's career was cut short as you know but he led the league in K's 6 straight years, was first in adjusted ERA three times and his 1905 season was one of the best ever. He only played ten full years so it's hard to compare him to most of the great pitchers in baseball history as far as career contribution but he really had some outstanding years nonetheless. Plus he was a booze and woman hound. He's my guy.

Lefty had a relatively short ML career as well, as he was in the "high minors" for a while, if I recall. Regardless, even at their extended peak I dont see an arguement for Waddell here. Lefty on the Left, Waddell on the Right:2 / 1 Triple Crowns9 / 3 ERA+ Crowns (9/2 in raw ERA)7 / 6 K Crowns (consecutive in each case)5 / 1 WHIP CrownsI could see an arguement for a number of pitchers to be up there, but Waddell doesnt make it for me.

Waddell is a trendy pick.

 

[Oldtimer]

1st Team

1B - Lou Gehrig

2B - Rogers Hornsby

3B - Mike Schmidt

SS - Ernie Banks

OF - Henry Aaron

OF - Willie Mays

OF - Mickey Mantle

C - Johnny Bench

DH - Babe Ruth

SP - Sandy Koufax

SP - Walter Johnson

SP - Lefty Grove

SP - Warren Spahn

SP - Bob Gibson

Closer - Lee Smith

2nd Team

1B - Jimmie Foxx

2B - Charlie Gehringer

3B - Eddie Mathews

SS - Alex Rodriguez

OF - Barry Bonds

OF - Stan Musial

OF - Ty Cobb

C - Carleton Fisk

DH - Ted Williams

SP - Addie Joss

SP - Nolan Ryan

SP - Roger Clemens

SP - Tom Seaver

SP - Christy Mathewson

Close - Mariano Rivera

 

[Capella]

Looks like we're ready for another all-time baseball draft (WIS-Free)

 

[Doctor Detroit]

He didn't make my all-time team but my favorite all-time player not named Ty Cobb or Rod Carew is my man Wahoo Sam Crawford the all-time triples leader in major league history. Can't believe the Tigers didn't win a WS with him and Cobb in the early 20th century. SCREW YOU THREE FINGERS BROWN!

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Looks like we're ready for another all-time baseball draft (WIS-Free)

1921 Ruth in WIS VIII :X

Rank Name		 G   AB R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB  SO HBPSB CS AVG OBP SLG  OPS 1 Babe Ruth '21 162 632 205 215 35 7 82 232 148 164 7 0 0 .340 .469 .807 1.276

 

[Capella]

Looks like we're ready for another all-time baseball draft (WIS-Free)

1921 Ruth in WIS VIII :X

Rank Name		 G   AB R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB  SO HBPSB CS AVG OBP SLG  OPS 1 Babe Ruth '21 162 632 205 215 35 7 82 232 148 164 7 0 0 .340 .469 .807 1.276

Jesus.

 

[whoknew]

1st TeamCloser - Lee Smith

Are you joking?

 

[Despyzer]

1B - Lou Gehrig (7 time all-star, 2 time MVP, 1 triple crown, Top 20 batting avg. and walks, Top 5 OB% and RBIs, Top 3 slug%, Top 10 runs, Top 20 total bases, retired at the age of 35, had he kept going he could very well be considered among the best of all time.) Backups - Jimmie Fox and Keith Hernandez for defense.

2B - Joe Morgan (Simultaneously the best defensive player at this position and a premier offensive threat in the league - very few in the game can make that claim, 10 time all -star, 2 time MVP, 5 gold gloves) Backups - Rogers Hornsby and Bill Mazerosky for defense.

SS - Honus Wagner (Led the league in batting avg. 8 times, slugging % and total bases 6 times, RBIs 5 times, Top 10 all time in stolen bases, athletic enough to play any position on the field well) Backups - Alex Rodriguez and Ozzie Smith for defense.

3B - Mike Schmidt (12 time all-star, 3 MVPs, 10 gold gloves, 12th in HRs, Top 20 walks) Backups - George Brett and Brooks Robinson for defense.

C - Johnny Bench (14 time all-star, 2 MVPs, 10 gold gloves, led the league twice in HRs and 3 times in RBIs) Backups - Yogi Berra and Ivan Rodriguez for defense.

RF - Babe Ruth (no explanation necessary) Backups - Henry Aaron and Roberto Clemente for defense.

CF - Willie Mays (no explanation necessary) Backups - Mickey Mantle (Mays stays in for defense).

LF - Ted Williams (17 time all-star, 2 MVPs, 2 triple crowns, #1 OB%, #2 slug%, Top 5 in walks, Top 10 batting avg., Top 20 total bases, RBIs, and HRs) Backups - Stan Musial and Shoeless Joe Jackson for defense.

Ps (in no particular order) - Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Lefty Grove

 

[Doctor Detroit]

1B - Lou Gehrig (7 time all-star, 2 time MVP, 1 triple crown, Top 20 batting avg. and walks, Top 5 OB% and RBIs, Top 3 slug%, Top 10 runs, Top 20 total bases, retired at the age of 35, had he kept going he could very well be considered among the best of all time.) Backups - Jimmie Fox and Keith Hernandez for defense.

2B - Joe Morgan (Simultaneously the best defensive player at this position and a premier offensive threat in the league - very few in the game can make that claim, 10 time all -star, 2 time MVP, 5 gold gloves) Backups - Rogers Hornsby and Bill Mazerosky for defense.

SS - Honus Wagner (Led the league in batting avg. 8 times, slugging % and total bases 6 times, RBIs 5 times, Top 10 all time in stolen bases, athletic enough to play any position on the field well) Backups - Alex Rodriguez and Ozzie Smith for defense.

3B - Mike Schmidt (12 time all-star, 3 MVPs, 10 gold gloves, 12th in HRs, Top 20 walks) Backups - George Brett and Brooks Robinson for defense.

C - Johnny Bench (14 time all-star, 2 MVPs, 10 gold gloves, led the league twice in HRs and 3 times in RBIs) Backups - Yogi Berra and Ivan Rodriguez for defense.

RF - Babe Ruth (no explanation necessary) Backups - Henry Aaron and Roberto Clemente for defense.

CF - Willie Mays (no explanation necessary) Backups - Mickey Mantle (Mays stays in for defense).

LF - Ted Williams (17 time all-star, 2 MVPs, 2 triple crowns, #1 OB%, #2 slug%, Top 5 in walks, Top 10 batting avg., Top 20 total bases, RBIs, and HRs) Backups - Stan Musial and Shoeless Joe Jackson for defense.

Ps (in no particular order) - Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Lefty Grove

Good list and I lie the back-ups. No Ty Cobb though? Even as a back-up? Who would be your closer?

 

[Koya]

I forgot Catcher:

Berra, backed up by Bench. Say what you want, but there is a reason for Berra's three MVPs. Few players rose to the occasion in crunch time as did Berra as well.

By the way, during a 7 year stretch, Berra not only one those three MVPs, but also had two 2nds, a third and a fourth. Yup, seven straight years with only ONE of them out of the top three in MVP voting, and that was 4th.

 

[Despyzer]

Good list and I lie the back-ups. No Ty Cobb though? Even as a back-up? Who would be your closer?

I wouldn't argue much with Cobb before Mantle, but not before Mays.For closers, I will go with Rivera and Eckersley.

 

[Koya]

Looks like we're ready for another all-time baseball draft (WIS-Free)

Great idea. I wonder if there is some way to have an unbiased measure of each team though.......

 

[Kraft...]

No Clemens huh

 

[Kraft...]

RHP - Gibson

Nice to see Gibson get some love

 

[Kraft...]

a lot of Schmidt love in here, I'm going to take a look at 3B

 

[Frostillicus]

Looks like we're ready for another all-time baseball draft (WIS-Free)

IN

 

[Greco]

CF Ty Cobb

SS Honus Wagner

RF Babe Ruth

1B Lou Gehrig

LF Willie Mays

3B George Brett

C Pudge Rodriguez

2B Chas Gehrigner

P Johan Santana

CL Goose Gossage

This is my all time had to win a game or die starting line up, without DH.

 

[Oldtimer]

1st TeamCloser - Lee Smith

Are you joking?

I think his career numbers speak for themselves. Especially the 478 career saves.Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+ 1980 22 CHC NL 2 0 18 0 0 0 6 0 21.7 21 9 7 0 14 17 0 0 97 5 0 2.91 3.93 135 1.615 1981 23 CHC NL 3 6 40 1 0 0 12 1 66.7 57 31 26 2 31 50 1 7 280 8 1 3.51 3.70 105 1.320 1982 24 CHC NL 2 5 72 5 0 0 38 17 117.0 105 38 35 5 37 99 3 6 480 5 1 2.69 3.75 139 1.214 1983 25 CHC NL 4 10 66 0 0 0 56 29 103.3 70 23 19 5 41 91 1 5 413 14 2 1.65 3.82 231 1.074 MVP-18,CYA-9,AS 1984 26 CHC NL 9 7 69 0 0 0 59 33 101.0 98 42 41 6 35 86 0 6 428 7 0 3.65 3.92 107 1.317 1985 27 CHC NL 7 4 65 0 0 0 57 33 97.7 87 35 33 9 32 112 1 4 397 6 0 3.04 3.99 131 1.218 1986 28 CHC NL 9 9 66 0 0 0 59 31 90.3 69 32 31 7 42 93 0 2 372 11 0 3.09 4.06 131 1.229 1987 29 CHC NL 4 10 62 0 0 0 55 36 83.7 84 30 29 4 32 96 0 4 360 5 0 3.12 4.29 138 1.386 AS 1988 30 BOS AL 4 5 64 0 0 0 57 29 83.7 72 34 26 7 37 96 1 2 363 6 0 2.80 4.13 148 1.303 MVP-21 1989 31 BOS AL 6 1 64 0 0 0 50 25 70.7 53 30 28 6 33 96 0 1 290 6 0 3.57 4.13 116 1.217 1990 32 TOT 5 5 64 0 0 0 53 31 83.0 71 24 19 3 29 87 0 2 344 7 0 2.06 3.88 188 1.205 BOS AL 2 1 11 0 0 0 8 4 14.3 13 4 3 0 9 17 0 1 64 2 0 1.88 4.07 216 1.535 STL NL 3 4 53 0 0 0 45 27 68.7 58 20 16 3 20 70 0 1 280 5 0 2.10 3.83 183 1.136 1991 33 STL NL 6 3 67 0 0 0 61 47 73.0 70 19 19 5 13 67 0 1 300 5 0 2.34 3.72 159 1.137 MVP-8,CYA-2,AS 1992 34 STL NL 4 9 70 0 0 0 55 43 75.0 62 28 26 4 26 60 0 2 310 4 0 3.12 3.40 109 1.173 CYA-4,AS 1993 35 TOT 2 4 63 0 0 0 56 46 58.0 53 25 25 11 14 60 0 1 239 2 0 3.88 3.97 102 1.155 STL NL 2 4 55 0 0 0 48 43 50.0 49 25 25 11 9 49 0 1 206 1 0 4.50 3.93 87 1.160 AS NYY AL 0 0 8 0 0 0 8 3 8.0 4 0 0 0 5 11 0 0 33 1 0 0.00 4.25 inf 1.125 1994 36 BAL AL 1 4 41 0 0 0 39 33 38.3 34 16 14 6 11 42 0 0 160 1 0 3.29 5.00 152 1.174 MVP-14,CYA-5,AS 1995 37 CAL AL 0 5 52 0 0 0 51 37 49.3 42 19 19 3 25 43 1 1 209 4 0 3.47 4.72 136 1.358 AS 1996 38 TOT 3 4 54 0 0 0 24 2 55.3 57 24 23 4 26 41 1 3 245 4 0 3.74 4.32 116 1.500 CAL AL 0 0 11 0 0 0 8 0 11.0 8 4 3 0 3 6 0 1 44 0 0 2.45 4.90 200 1.000 CIN NL 3 4 43 0 0 0 16 2 44.3 49 20 20 4 23 35 1 2 201 4 0 4.06 4.18 103 1.624 1997 39 MON NL 0 1 25 0 0 0 14 5 21.7 28 16 14 2 8 15 1 0 100 0 0 5.82 4.21 72 1.662+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+ 18 Years 92 6 0 478 1133 434 486 10 47 5387 100 4 3.03 3.99 132 1.256 WL%= .436 71 1022 0 802 1289.3 475 89 1251

 

[whoknew]

1st TeamCloser - Lee Smith

Are you joking?

I think his career numbers speak for themselves. Especially the 478 career saves.Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+ 1980 22 CHC NL 2 0 18 0 0 0 6 0 21.7 21 9 7 0 14 17 0 0 97 5 0 2.91 3.93 135 1.615 1981 23 CHC NL 3 6 40 1 0 0 12 1 66.7 57 31 26 2 31 50 1 7 280 8 1 3.51 3.70 105 1.320 1982 24 CHC NL 2 5 72 5 0 0 38 17 117.0 105 38 35 5 37 99 3 6 480 5 1 2.69 3.75 139 1.214 1983 25 CHC NL 4 10 66 0 0 0 56 29 103.3 70 23 19 5 41 91 1 5 413 14 2 1.65 3.82 231 1.074 MVP-18,CYA-9,AS 1984 26 CHC NL 9 7 69 0 0 0 59 33 101.0 98 42 41 6 35 86 0 6 428 7 0 3.65 3.92 107 1.317 1985 27 CHC NL 7 4 65 0 0 0 57 33 97.7 87 35 33 9 32 112 1 4 397 6 0 3.04 3.99 131 1.218 1986 28 CHC NL 9 9 66 0 0 0 59 31 90.3 69 32 31 7 42 93 0 2 372 11 0 3.09 4.06 131 1.229 1987 29 CHC NL 4 10 62 0 0 0 55 36 83.7 84 30 29 4 32 96 0 4 360 5 0 3.12 4.29 138 1.386 AS 1988 30 BOS AL 4 5 64 0 0 0 57 29 83.7 72 34 26 7 37 96 1 2 363 6 0 2.80 4.13 148 1.303 MVP-21 1989 31 BOS AL 6 1 64 0 0 0 50 25 70.7 53 30 28 6 33 96 0 1 290 6 0 3.57 4.13 116 1.217 1990 32 TOT 5 5 64 0 0 0 53 31 83.0 71 24 19 3 29 87 0 2 344 7 0 2.06 3.88 188 1.205 BOS AL 2 1 11 0 0 0 8 4 14.3 13 4 3 0 9 17 0 1 64 2 0 1.88 4.07 216 1.535 STL NL 3 4 53 0 0 0 45 27 68.7 58 20 16 3 20 70 0 1 280 5 0 2.10 3.83 183 1.136 1991 33 STL NL 6 3 67 0 0 0 61 47 73.0 70 19 19 5 13 67 0 1 300 5 0 2.34 3.72 159 1.137 MVP-8,CYA-2,AS 1992 34 STL NL 4 9 70 0 0 0 55 43 75.0 62 28 26 4 26 60 0 2 310 4 0 3.12 3.40 109 1.173 CYA-4,AS 1993 35 TOT 2 4 63 0 0 0 56 46 58.0 53 25 25 11 14 60 0 1 239 2 0 3.88 3.97 102 1.155 STL NL 2 4 55 0 0 0 48 43 50.0 49 25 25 11 9 49 0 1 206 1 0 4.50 3.93 87 1.160 AS NYY AL 0 0 8 0 0 0 8 3 8.0 4 0 0 0 5 11 0 0 33 1 0 0.00 4.25 inf 1.125 1994 36 BAL AL 1 4 41 0 0 0 39 33 38.3 34 16 14 6 11 42 0 0 160 1 0 3.29 5.00 152 1.174 MVP-14,CYA-5,AS 1995 37 CAL AL 0 5 52 0 0 0 51 37 49.3 42 19 19 3 25 43 1 1 209 4 0 3.47 4.72 136 1.358 AS 1996 38 TOT 3 4 54 0 0 0 24 2 55.3 57 24 23 4 26 41 1 3 245 4 0 3.74 4.32 116 1.500 CAL AL 0 0 11 0 0 0 8 0 11.0 8 4 3 0 3 6 0 1 44 0 0 2.45 4.90 200 1.000 CIN NL 3 4 43 0 0 0 16 2 44.3 49 20 20 4 23 35 1 2 201 4 0 4.06 4.18 103 1.624 1997 39 MON NL 0 1 25 0 0 0 14 5 21.7 28 16 14 2 8 15 1 0 100 0 0 5.82 4.21 72 1.662+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+ 18 Years 92 6 0 478 1133 434 486 10 47 5387 100 4 3.03 3.99 132 1.256 WL%= .436 71 1022 0 802 1289.3 475 89 1251

I find it hard to believe anyone could think Lee Smith is better than Mo Rivera, Trevor Hoffman, Eckersly, etc. I realize he has 480 saves, but saves are a pretty meaningless stat compared to ERA+, WHIP, etc.

 

[Koya]

RHP - Gibson

Nice to see Gibson get some love

One game and you can have any pitcher? It would be either Koufax or Gibson. Period.

 

[Koya]

No Clemens huh

Compiler who has been overated even in his time. Don't get me wrong, he is a very good pitcher who was dominant at times, but he was not the pitcher that the uber elite all time greats were. He is not even the best pitcher of his era - just one that donned the juice to get 7 more good to great years.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

RHP - Gibson

Nice to see Gibson get some love

One game and you can have any pitcher? It would be either Koufax or Gibson. Period.

Walter Johnson. I agree with you on Clemens to a degree that it's awfully suspicious he had those down years in NY and then BAM!!!!!!, stud with some of his best years. Who is the best pitcher of his era? Johnson?

 

[Koya]

RHP - Gibson

Nice to see Gibson get some love

One game and you can have any pitcher? It would be either Koufax or Gibson. Period.

Walter Johnson. I agree with you on Clemens to a degree that it's awfully suspicious he had those down years in NY and then BAM!!!!!!, stud with some of his best years. Who is the best pitcher of his era? Johnson?

Best pitcher of this era imo is Pedro. His greatest years were not on teams that allowed him the ultimate spotlight though and it took a while for people to acknowledge that this scrawny kid was really the goods but when you look at the numbers compared to watching him pitch, that is my call.Johnson would probably be next, though you could certainly argue Maddux. What hurts Maddux is the lack of closing out another WS win or two with those Braves teams... much like Roger gets hurt by sucking so much in the post season.I could see someone arguing Johnson as the greatest of all time though... and there really is no way to compare at that level when none of us got to watch him and the game was so different. But he has to be included in the conversation.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

RHP - Gibson

Nice to see Gibson get some love

One game and you can have any pitcher? It would be either Koufax or Gibson. Period.

Walter Johnson. I agree with you on Clemens to a degree that it's awfully suspicious he had those down years in NY and then BAM!!!!!!, stud with some of his best years. Who is the best pitcher of his era? Johnson?

Best pitcher of this era imo is Pedro. His greatest years were not on teams that allowed him the ultimate spotlight though and it took a while for people to acknowledge that this scrawny kid was really the goods but when you look at the numbers compared to watching him pitch, that is my call.

I'm not going to argue here. Considering Pedro's cumulative stats and that to me he's an automatic HOFer says everything. His prime years were incredible.

Johnson would probably be next, though you could certainly argue Maddux. What hurts Maddux is the lack of closing out another WS win or two with those Braves teams... much like Roger gets hurt by sucking so much in the post season.

I did a Maddux v Clemens thread. As I said there I think Maddux has fallen off in his later years while Clemens has just been awesome. In 2001 I think I would have picked Maddux hands down. Randy Johnson? To me he's just so special and when he was in his prime years I think he was the most dominating. He was hurt in WHIP because of his control issues but as far as stuff goes, only Ryan and Pedro gave away that kind of feeling where you weren't entirely sure if the other team would ever get a hit in any given game. I think the stats favor Pedro but if I had to choose by what I saw with my own two eyes I'd take Randy. He was incredible and one of the few players that I can honestly say that it was a privilege to watch.

I could see someone arguing Johnson as the greatest of all time though... and there really is no way to compare at that level when none of us got to watch him and the game was so different. But he has to be included in the conversation.

I am going with what I've learned in watching and reading about that time frame and the fact Ty Cobb was so completely impressed with Johnson. Cobb never thought too much of anyone besides Wagner and Johnson and Cobb's opinion goes a long way in what I think about the greats of the game. Walter Johnson was Roger Clemens on acid. To me they are not even close.