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Ancient-Civilizations existed in the Americas before “Indians” & 70,000 y/o braclet with modern drill marks found (1 Viewer)

So a lot going on here and I have a long standing dalliance with this field. 

So it appears we may have solved the how did they move the stones for the Egyptian pyramids question. They dug canals up to the site and floated them there on barges. This a relatively recent discovery.

Now to the thought of an ancient advanced society. I believe there was one. I believe it is list under the sand of North Africa. I believe that people from that society emigrated to the Nile delta, and perhaps to other places by sea, after a natural catastrophe of some sort rendered their environment unlivable. I think this explains a lot of the similarities we see around the globe. I also believe the destruction of the Library at Alexandria set our advancement back millenia.

 
xulf said:
"Actual" facts is a really bold statement.
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This. Just because it's true that a very vivid dreamer like Cayce said something doesn't make that something true.

Nor does it make it true that his "predictions" were his alone.

For example, I think Jules Verne had the idea of underwater passageways (his was in the Mediterranean, I believe) about a decade before Cayce was born.

Politician Spock said:
The inability of modern man to recreate the pyramids to the degree of perfection that the ancient world did
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I took this to mean that we haven't been able to recreate them using technology we knew existed then, correct? People have brought up the Luxor which is only slightly smaller than the Pyramid of Khafre, shines a light that you can see from outer space (may still be the brightest light on earth), and has good buffet deals to boot! That is at least as impressive as some fourth-dynasty theocratic monarchist's final resting place. 

 
As to Atlantis. It seems fairly certain that the story is actually about the destruction of Crete by a major earthquake and tsunami. They were an advanced and wealthy society. In fact they were the first advanced European society. This was covered very well on Secrets of the Dead on PBS.

 
The Luxor light can not be seen from outer space. It gets lost in the general light of Vegas. Further they no longer even run it at full power its been at half power for a long time to save money.

 
Jayrod said:
We could easily build the pyramids today, we just have no reason to.  Using those materials and the resulting structures would be pointless and a highly inefficient use of funds.  There is no one that knows how to do it because nobody is trying.
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I mean, it's not like people in Dubai built an island shaped like a palm tree or anything :lol: I know I know that was for real estate mostly, but I bet someone could make a model of the Great Pyramid of Giza and put a bar inside of it and retire rich. 

 
NCCommish said:
The Luxor light can not be seen from outer space. It gets lost in the general light of Vegas. Further they no longer even run it at full power its been at half power for a long time to save money.
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Nice! Thanks for debunking that. Had no idea the "seen from space" was a myth. It was the most powerful light on earth at the time, wonder if it still is.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Nice! Thanks for debunking that. Had no idea the "seen from space" was a myth. It was the most powerful light on earth at the time, wonder if it still is.
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It was at one time not sure if still the case.  But of course it's actually 38 iirc xenon 7k watt lights focused by a mirror into a single beam.

 
Politician Spock said:
The inability of modern man to recreate the pyramids to the degree of perfection that the ancient world did simply suggests that they had knowledge that we do not currently have. The simplest explanation is that the knowledge was lost. Even if aliens or gods provided the knowledge, the knowledge was still lost. So the addition of aliens or gods being the source of the knowledge doesn't make the explanation easier. The explanation that we lost the knowledge is simple enough on its own. 
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We’ve lost plenty of things before.

 
NCCommish said:
the destruction of the Library at Alexandria set our advancement back millenia.
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Awful awful event- although reading more about it, there seems to be some speculation on how significant it really was. 

 
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Brunell4MVP said:
I love history.  Watch this stuff all the time.

I think it's funny how everyone is amazed by it all though.  Pretty sure we could build all this stuff in no time.  Thing is, somewhere along the way humans realized how pointless it is to build Pyramids, Stonehenges, Indian Mounds, Great Walls of ChinA, etc.  That's why nobody builds that crap anymore.  It's a waste of energy and resources.
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That’s fine and all but it just doesn’t make a lot of sense that under all the piles ancient ruins lie more sophisticated structures and megaliths that we would have trouble recreating with such precision today. 

This is a continually moving theory for me but my early hypothesis ( :rolleyes:  ) is that there was a superior race of people who were different than the other primitive people of their day and they were either killed off, died off, or were wiped out by that cataclysmic event roughly 12,000 years ago. 

Or it was Aliens. 

 
People have to remember most of the "we can't do this " is hyperbole. Of course we can but why would we? We don't build megalithic structures any more for a reason.

 
NCCommish said:
People have to remember most of the "we can't do this " is hyperbole. Of course we can but why would we? We don't build megalithic structures any more for a reason.
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Las Vegas laughs at you

Having watched National Treasure more times than I count, I truly hope one day we will discover just a portion of the documents lost from the Library at Alexandria. We discover cool #### all the time in the desert, dare to dream.

 
I read those Erich Von Daniken books when I was a kid and never missed an episode of In Search Of (Mr. Spock narrated - of course I was watching). Entertaining speculation, but even then I was pretty skeptical of their takes on this stuff. An interesting sidelight to some of this shows up in some of Jared Diamond's books exploring how the pressure of producing these kinds of things contributed to the complete collapse of a few societies, mainly due to environmental impacts. The clearest example was the Maoi statues on Easter Island.

 
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This is very long (3.5 hours) ...you may want to download the podcast version and listen in the car when you have time.  There are a couple of good graphs that are good to be able to see.  

Joe Rogan Experience #872 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

Hancock extrapolates/interprets a lot more than Carlson, but I'm left with no doubt of the 11-12K years ago cataclysmic event that could have wiped out a lot of evidence of past human activity.  

 
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Binky The Doormat said:
This is very long (3.5 hours) ...you may want to download the podcast version and listen in the car when you have time.  There are a couple of good graphs that are good to be able to see.  

Joe Rogan Experience #872 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

Hancock extrapolates/interprets a lot more than Carlson, but I'm left with no doubt of the 11-12K years ago cataclysmic event that could have wiped out a lot of evidence of past human activity.  
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I could honestly Listen to those guys talk for hours and hours. All of their podcasts with Rogan are amazing. For those interested you should check out the Rogan/Robert Schoch interview as well.

 
Binky The Doormat said:
This is very long (3.5 hours) ...you may want to download the podcast version and listen in the car when you have time.  There are a couple of good graphs that are good to be able to see.  

Joe Rogan Experience #872 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

Hancock extrapolates/interprets a lot more than Carlson, but I'm left with no doubt of the 11-12K years ago cataclysmic event that could have wiped out a lot of evidence of past human activity.  
Click to expand...


I fully admit the lost race stuff with technology to cut the massive blocks of granite with laser accurate precision more than 11k years ago buried under far lesser quality structures is foil hat stuff but I agree about that cataclysmic event surly happened. Thats

Impact crater found recently that supports Randell Carlson’s opinions

If anyone is interested what that is- You don’t have to listen to the whole podcast but fast forward to when they start showing the pictures about halfway through of the massive flooding in North America.

 
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If we were to build today, of course we could.  Using large earth moving equipment, cranes, large scale quarrying and shipping, trucks and given an unlimited budget and enough skilled workers to implement the design effectively we could accurately replicate the pyramids.  It would take decades, cost billions and result in a pointless endeavor.  But I think the argument that we could not replicate it today is that if we were to only utilize technologies that existed (to our knowledge) back then, we could not achieve the same results.  I actually think this is very accurate.  Eliminate all the tech that we take for granted as builders (earth moving equipment, Trucking and shipping industry, combustion engines, electricity, mass production of building elements, healthcare, food production, quick and suitable housing production, etc) and I don't believe we could replicate the pyramids.  That seems indicative to me that there is some level of technology that they had, which we lost.  

As an aside, I am an Architect here in Philadelphia.  I can attest that the pool of highly exceptional masons is getting thinner and thinner.  If you want a really high quality mason look for a guy in his 60's.  There are some younger guys out there, but in general, this is a trade/art that is being lost in a generation or two.  We're talking about a fundamental building technology that has shaped our country over the last two hundred years whose prevalence (and therefore craftsmen) is becoming obsolete.

Getting back to the lost tech idea, one thing that Schoch talks about is the existence of very large, stone hinges with deep cores-not unlike the hinges that every door in your house hang from, just way bigger, supporting way more weight and constructed of stone instead of steel or brass.)  He focuses on the technology that it would take to create these cores.  They are perfect circles, 1-1/2" in diameter that are 8" to 12" cored into stone.  All aligning perfectly to support and swing a door that may be 8'-10' wide and a story tall.  This could only have been done on a lathe or more likely with a drill.  Like an electric drill.  This is not some chiseled out recess, but a clear through-hole to receive a door pin.  I'm not suggesting they had electricity necessarily.  Just that they had a technology advanced enough to do such a small, but definitely-not-insignificant task such as boring through stone

Finally, I've heard arguments that a technology as advanced as this, from 10,000 years ago is impossible because there have not been any artifacts found to corroborate this date.  This is silly to me.  Nature has a way of wiping the slate clean.  If we were to all be blipped out of existence today and 10,000 years from now aliens were to visit earth, they'd find almost no proof we were ever here.  Skyscrapers and houses,  roads and airports, cars and shopping malls, Iphones and portable drills would all be completely gone.  The only things that would remain in some state of recognition would be massive static, monolithic masonry/stone structures like the pyramids or a carving like Mount Rushmore.  That a mason's chisel from 10,000 years ago can't be found left behind at the base of the Sphinx is not an indicator that it wasn't once there.  

 
unckeyherb said:
As an aside, I am an Architect here in Philadelphia.  I can attest that the pool of highly exceptional masons is getting thinner and thinner.  If you want a really high quality mason look for a guy in his 60's.  There are some younger guys out there, but in general, this is a trade/art that is being lost in a generation or two.  We're talking about a fundamental building technology that has shaped our country over the last two hundred years whose prevalence (and therefore craftsmen) is becoming obsolete.

Finally, I've heard arguments that a technology as advanced as this, from 10,000 years ago is impossible because there have not been any artifacts found to corroborate this date.  This is silly to me.  Nature has a way of wiping the slate clean.  If we were to all be blipped out of existence today and 10,000 years from now aliens were to visit earth, they'd find almost no proof we were ever here.  Skyscrapers and houses,  roads and airports, cars and shopping malls, Iphones and portable drills would all be completely gone.  The only things that would remain in some state of recognition would be massive static, monolithic masonry/stone structures like the pyramids or a carving like Mount Rushmore.  That a mason's chisel from 10,000 years ago can't be found left behind at the base of the Sphinx is not an indicator that it wasn't once there.  
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Both excellent points. Your first is indicative to all the skilled trades unfortunately. As we continue to automate, the loss of trade skills continue to increase. Probably not at a tipping point but go try to hire a welder these days and see how much you are going to pay. It's a real shame because my father was part of the "Greatest Generation" and having lived through the depression, he could very literally fix anything up to about 1980's tech. And most of the folks he was friends with were the same way. We just don't live like that anymore, becoming a disposable society. It's a shame because when the bottom does drop out the vast majority of people won't be able to survive without all the gadgetry we've become accustom to. Probably not a bad thing and Mother Nature's way of thinning the herd.

Your second point is well said. There is nothing that I can think of being manufactured today that will be around in 10,000 years aside from some plastic Walmart bags and nuclear waste. Heck just watch some of those Discovery Channel shows that show what it would look like after 100 years! There's very little recognizable then let alone 10,000. Very good post :thumbup:

 
unckeyherb said:
Finally, I've heard arguments that a technology as advanced as this, from 10,000 years ago is impossible because there have not been any artifacts found to corroborate this date.  This is silly to me.  Nature has a way of wiping the slate clean.  If we were to all be blipped out of existence today and 10,000 years from now aliens were to visit earth, they'd find almost no proof we were ever here.  Skyscrapers and houses,  roads and airports, cars and shopping malls, Iphones and portable drills would all be completely gone.  The only things that would remain in some state of recognition would be massive static, monolithic masonry/stone structures like the pyramids or a carving like Mount Rushmore.  That a mason's chisel from 10,000 years ago can't be found left behind at the base of the Sphinx is not an indicator that it wasn't once there.  
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One of my favorite reads from the last few years was The World Without Us.   Talks about what you are saying here -  what would last if we all just disappeared.  That would be if we just vanished as in this weird thought experiment - much worse if there was a catastrophe or an Ice Age like might have happened 10-12K years ago.  

 
Binky The Doormat said:
This is very long (3.5 hours) ...you may want to download the podcast version and listen in the car when you have time.  There are a couple of good graphs that are good to be able to see.  

Joe Rogan Experience #872 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

Hancock extrapolates/interprets a lot more than Carlson, but I'm left with no doubt of the 11-12K years ago cataclysmic event that could have wiped out a lot of evidence of past human activity.  
Click to expand...
Love the one with both of them, but it's also great to skim through which ones they have been on individually before that.  Hancock gets a little weirder than Carlson, but these two are some of my favorite listens from the JRE.  

 
Looked quick in the JRE thread because I knew I looked it up before and posted it there.  Here are the episode #s that those guys were a guest on the podcast:

Graham Hancock - #s 142, 360, 417, and 551

Randall Carlson - #s 501, 606

Both of them  - #s 725, 872

 
KarmaPolice said:
Looked quick in the JRE thread because I knew I looked it up before and posted it there.  Here are the episode #s that those guys were a guest on the podcast:

Graham Hancock - #s 142, 360, 417, and 551

Randall Carlson - #s 501, 606

Both of them  - #s 725, 872
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Thanks.  :blackdot:

 
Robert Schoch Interview.  

He covers specifics of voids in Egyptologist dating at the Sphinx and other sites, referencing what Carlson and Graham, go into in much more detail as well as pointing to the technological advancements that must have taken place to do some of the things that we see in the Pyramids.  The parts about the site at Gobekli Tepe are fascinating.

 
NCCommish said:
As to Atlantis. It seems fairly certain that the story is actually about the destruction of Crete by a major earthquake and tsunami. They were an advanced and wealthy society. In fact they were the first advanced European society. This was covered very well on Secrets of the Dead on PBS.
Click to expand...
I don't believe in too many of these ancient civilization theories, but I do believe in the existence of Atlantis.  Too many references to it by name for it to be Crete.  Why couldn't there be another settlement similar to Crete that was just as advanced or more?

 
Brunell4MVP said:
I love history.  Watch this stuff all the time.

I think it's funny how everyone is amazed by it all though.  Pretty sure we could build all this stuff in no time.  Thing is, somewhere along the way humans realized how pointless it is to build Pyramids, Stonehenges, Indian Mounds, Great Walls of ChinA, etc.  That's why nobody builds that crap anymore.  It's a waste of energy and resources.
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I can think of a few people that are still interested in building walls.

 
unckeyherb said:
Robert Schoch Interview.  

He covers specifics of voids in Egyptologist dating at the Sphinx and other sites, referencing what Carlson and Graham, go into in much more detail as well as pointing to the technological advancements that must have taken place to do some of the things that we see in the Pyramids.  The parts about the site at Gobekli Tepe are fascinating.
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So I'm hooked, listening to the pod now and trying to pull up all the articles he cites. Love this stuff :thumbup:

Edit to add, this was a cool pickup from the podcast

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/258316-scientists-discover-massive-hidden-chamber-inside-great-pyramid-giza

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/268167-the-giant-void-in-the-great-pyramid-may-be-a-vital-construction-clue-not-a-new-chamber

 
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NCCommish said:
As to could we build the pyramids? Of course we can. The estimate I've seen is it would take roughly 5 years and cost about 5 billion dollars to do it.
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Where are you seeing this because everything I’m reading and watching is saying otherwise. 

ETA- I’m talking about not using modern technology such as mechanical cranes.

 
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butcher boy said:
I don't believe in too many of these ancient civilization theories, but I do believe in the existence of Atlantis.  Too many references to it by name for it to be Crete.  Why couldn't there be another settlement similar to Crete that was just as advanced or more?
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Crete is the best candidate we have for places we know existed.

 
NCCommish said:
The pyramid is actually a fairly easy structure to build when you think about it.
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I have been listen and reading everything on the subject and I hear and read the opposite. 

The theory where they floated the stones used has a few holes in it. How did they get them off the boats? How did they create channels above that could support that much pressure? If they dug out the hole before they placed the stones, how did they get all the sand out at the last minute? 

Even today it would be nearly impossible to get the stones into place without breaking them. That’s using mechanical cranes and machines. 

 
I fell asleep last night but JAWs and Rogan got into a conversation about some scripture that alluded to a prior nuclear apocalypse. Looking forward to going back to that part this evening.

Wife: EGYPT......AGAIN?!?!?!?

 
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