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And on that day, Net Neutrality died (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter FreeBaGeL
- Start date
The Z Machine
Footballguy
What if Comcast throttles HBO GO such that it's unusable, trying to force the cord cutters back to buying cable TV?
That's great for the consumer, right?
That's great for the consumer, right?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
They cross their hearts and pinky-swear they won't do that. Really. Just don't ask them to put it in writing.
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AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
You have the option to pay $10 to ride a bus to the state line. Who cares if someone takes a #### on the bus seat next to you?
For $8, I'll drag you behind a car by a braided nylon rope to get to the state line.
You have options.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Either way, you're going to keep your high speed internet. If NN regulations are removed, you will likely pay more to keep fast internet, or pay more for 3rd party services delivered via the internet (Netflix, Hulu, Christo'sBigMuffBaconJamborie####fest.net subscription) to not get crappier.
The options are more like fly by plane for $100 or drive by car for $50, and door to door takes about the same time. The plane goes faster, but with all the time spent going through security and waiting for various reasons, it's getting me to my destination no faster than if I drive in my car.
Or, if you want to insist that the plane is faster, then it's that I don't care how long it takes to get where I'm going. Bottom line, neither flying nor driving appeals to me more based on the speed they go because it's the same to me in the end.
Yes, I have options.
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Yep. Netflix and Amazon. And I get a nice HD picture on my big screen TV.
I watch using my PS4, which uses WiFi to connect to my router. And no matter how fast the connection into the router, the WiFi to the PS4 is slower, but still fast enough for HD.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
That's true if you're flying/driving from NYC to Boston. That's less True from NYC to San Diego.
we're getting sidetracked from the point, but I don't think we inherently disagree. If you stream SD video and are a light internet user (browsing and email), you probably don't care. If you stream 4K video and you work from home and have heavy data transfer to and from your house because you have a server there and when you work remotely you need to pull items, you care a lot more. I don't want to drive from NYC to San Diego.
It probably won't be you they throttle. It'll be content providers like Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc. who can shell out big bucks to not be throttled. You'll just end up paying more for their content so that they don't lose profits.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Prior to my move, I had AT&T at 24mps. It "worked" but was sometimes painful.
I think the current new definition of broadband (what is it defined as now, 25+) is right. You're a hair under it and saying you're fine, which is ok. But you're also acting like 24mps is the same as 4 or 6mps, which is the "option" for a lot of other people out there who have "options".
SD video requires about 2mbps; HD video requires~6 mbps ; 4K video streaming requires ~15mbps. Some people have DVRs and they are advertised to record 2 or 4 shows at once. Then you have multiple people in the household using the internet on phones, tablets, laptops and whatever else. I'm not saying anyone is going to die if they go from HD to SD video, but these are things that are becoming accepted as normal.
Do you live alone? How slow do you think your internet could be before you'd be impacted in what you did for entertainment?
I do live alone, and I know that affects bandwidth, but based on your numbers I'd be fine at 6 mpbs. HD streaming is as high as I go. And I could get those speeds using just 4G from my phone if I was really in a pinch.
I have cable TV, so I don't need internet for that, just occasionally when I watch something on Amazon or Netflix. The only time I ever really see a speed issue is when I'm downloading a large file from the internet, like with games or something. And those are times when I don't really care how long it takes to download because I'm usually having that happen in the background while I do something else.
I guess I'm just not a good example.
I have cable TV, so I don't need internet for that, just occasionally when I watch something on Amazon or Netflix. The only time I ever really see a speed issue is when I'm downloading a large file from the internet, like with games or something. And those are times when I don't really care how long it takes to download because I'm usually having that happen in the background while I do something else.
I guess I'm just not a good example.
Big Blue Wrecking Crew
downsized
Mario Kart
Footballguy
What a piece of #### these people are. Take away all forms of “free” communication and put a price on it. Or, watch/see what we tell you to watch/see and you’ll be fine. Hell doesn’t have enough room for these people and these kinds of people. #### ‘em
It’s amazing to me that other countries allow many freedoms we do not even have. We’re America and we have a standard taught to us early on that we are free in America. Then I see this #### happen and it amazes me that many people sit idly by and allow it. Sad!
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Mario Kart
Footballguy
This Pai is the main lobbyist being a former lawyer for Verizon. I think I might be switching cell phone providers soon. I’m sure this will be challenged but briefs by Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google, and other key players need to be written. Our government was set up to protect freedoms we have in life. Our government created the internet, it shouldn’t sell it to its highest bidder at the cost of us. An economic recession could hit hard if this ever goes into effect.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
There will always be corruption in politics. But this FCC plan is one of the most blatant examples of corporate cronyism that I have ever seen. And the only way to end it is to somehow break the unholy relationship that the telecom and cable lobbyists have with lawmakers.
One of the most ridiculous, completely false arguments that Pai has put up against NN rules is that it destroys small ISPs. He repeatedly comes back to this topic and it's a big fat lie. It's all a continued push towards a monopoly or duopoly for most consumers.
One of the most ridiculous, completely false arguments that Pai has put up against NN rules is that it destroys small ISPs. He repeatedly comes back to this topic and it's a big fat lie. It's all a continued push towards a monopoly or duopoly for most consumers.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
I see the nerds are all fired up again
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I think I asked this same question when this was brought up previously. I would love to hear how this is remotely a benefit to the consumer and not just a blatant giveaway to large corporations. No one answered before. Maybe its nothing more than a blatant giveaway to large corporations funded by the consumers, us - the middle class.
It’s not beneficial. The costs will be passed on to us. It really only benefits the Verizon’s and cable companies.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
It depends on what you're downloading. You'll get somewhat screwed if you're downloading products that are owned by your service provider. For example, you're an ATT customer and you're streaming DirectTV's Redzone Channel (basically an ATT product) to your tablet - ATT will only charge you .01 per MB to deliver that. You'll get totally screwed if you're downloading products from people besides your service provider. For example, you're an ATT customer and you're streaming Amazon's new Middle Earth based T.V. series (not an ATT product) - ATT will charge you .05 per MB to deliver that. Either way, you'll be getting screwed. The internet providers will get to arbitrarily charge whatever they want based on what's in your traffic, rather than treating bytes as bytes. By the way, this also means they'll be increasing their ability to track and view what you're uploading and downloading. So your online porn habits will be on display for all to see when the internet provider databases of your traffic metadata get cracked.
This is the opposite of free market. It'll also end up being a massive invasion of privacy.
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Van Dyman
Footballguy
FCC is still accepting comments on this topic. I doubt it will help, but you can at least go on the record denouncing this BS. 22 million people already weighed in.
https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/filings?proceedings_name=17-108
https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/filings?proceedings_name=17-108
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Absolutely not. Contact your congressperson and let them know, unambiguously, that you will vote them the #### out of office if they support killing net neutrality. Your money and your privacy (along with the free flow of information the internet was created to facilitate) are on the line here.
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GregR
Footballguy
Sweet lord, not at all.
Probably the best way for us to do something is CALL our congressmen. Do not send an email. If you want your view to be heard you want to call and speak to their staffers, because those are the voices that end up being the ones that carry the most weight with them (per articles written by past congressional staffers). People against gun control are a tiny percentage of the public, but they are motivated and are the loudest voices when it comes to contacting Congress.
Scaring the Republican with backlash is probably the only thing that will stop this. Even if that fails, enough people speaking up may lead to Congress stepping in and making a law and not leaving it to the FCC to be able to dictate policy here.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
https://action.aclu.org/secure/comment-net-neutrality
https://www.savetheinternet.com/sti-home
https://www.battleforthenet.com
https://www.change.org/p/save-net-neutrality-netneutrality
You can google for more if you want. But best to also contact your congress person.
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trader jake
Footballguy
Statorama
gangster
You spend 8 years howling at the moon saying if only you had power at all the branches you could pass a repeal of Obamacare. Nope.
Oh, but THIS you can pass?
Look guys, they call the best part of something the "golden age" of that thing because it was awesome and then got turned into something else. We were all there to witness the golden age of the internet, with the top down and our long flowing mane trailing behind us in the breeze. It was a nice run.
Oh, but THIS you can pass?
Look guys, they call the best part of something the "golden age" of that thing because it was awesome and then got turned into something else. We were all there to witness the golden age of the internet, with the top down and our long flowing mane trailing behind us in the breeze. It was a nice run.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
We have the best kleptocracy, absolutely tremendous. There's never been a better kleptocracy, believe me. We'll do kleptocracy so great your head will spin.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
A thing that really chaps my hide, and should chap yours, is that taxpayer dollars funded most of the internet infrastructure. Providers paid for some last mile work (and only where convenient/insanely profitable for them), but that's not near the bulk of the cost. Now these #######s want to gouge us to circulate traffic on wires we payed for. Sure, they deserve some compensation for routing traffic, but lets be reasonable here.
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EYLive
Footballguy
Is that what South Korea has? 10Gigs per second and partially subsidized by the government, right?
whoknew
Footballguy
And its not just charges, right? They can just choke sites they don't want you to visit, right? Or eliminate access to them altogether?
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Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Not doubting you on this, but how does one know that? I guess what I'm asking is, where do I point someone to prove that, when this comes up in discussion?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
I understand that the cost might go up if you are say a COX customer and want to watch Netflix or Amazon or whatever. But, what is the cost increase? Will we be throttled? The guys fighting against NN have done a piss poor job of explaining how it is going to trouble the average Joe.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2014/01/so-who-owns-the-internet/Nathan R. Jessep said:
Public expenditures here mean a few things, some direct funding, some gigantic tax breaks to the companies who installed stuff, some protection/allowance of monopolies to those same companies.
Beyond the initial rollout, we've had some other fun with public funding you can read about in these articles/books:
The $200 Billion Broadband Scandal
The $400 Billion Broadband Scandal
In the above two, taxpayers paid that much money, and we didn't get much in return, so it'd be a stretch to say we paid for anything the service providers are actually using in service right now. But we paid.
Bear in mind, public funding of internet infrastructure is common practice in many other countries - and they all have more complete coverage and higher speeds. Granted all those countries are physically smaller than the U.S., so it's not a completely fair comparison - but they also pay significantly less than we do in the U.S. So we get worse service at higher prices than most of the technologically advanced nations. All courtesy of the very same companies that now want to extend their control over the internet by eliminating net neutrality.
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