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Jury Finds Realtors Conspired to Keep Commissions High (1 Viewer)

Stoneworker

Footballguy
I've expressed in other threads that I'm not a fan of the residential real estate brokerage industry. Looks like some changes may be on their way. Source: WSJ 10/31/23

KANSAS CITY, Mo.—A federal jury on Tuesday found the National Association of Realtors and large residential brokerages liable for about $1.8 billion in damages after determining they conspired to keep commissions for home sales artificially high.

The verdict could lead to industrywide upheaval by changing decades-old rules that have helped lock in commission rates even as home prices have skyrocketed—which has allowed real-estate agents to collect ever-larger sums. It comes in the first of two antitrust lawsuits arguing that unlawful industry practices have left consumers unable to lower their costs even though internet-era innovations have allowed many buyers to find homes themselves online.

“It’s a wake-up call for real-estate agents,” said Sissy Lappin, owner of Lappin Properties, a real-estate brokerage in Houston. The verdict, she said, could change the industry, leading more buyers and sellers to forego hiring agents.

Under antitrust rules, the presiding judge could triple the damages verdict, which would total more than $5 billion. The plaintiffs also have asked the judge to order changes to how the industry operates.
Under the current system, sellers pay their own agent’s commission—typically 5% to 6% of a home’s selling price—which is in turn shared with the buyer’s agent. Over the course of the trial, plaintiffs’ attorneys argued this model has suppressed competition by making it difficult for buyers and sellers to negotiate for lower rates.

“NAR and corporate real-estate companies have had a stranglehold on real-estate commissions for too long,” plaintiffs’ lawyer Michael Ketchmark said outside the courtroom.

Commissions are typically baked into listing prices, so a broad decline in commission rates could slightly reduce home prices.

“It’s a great victory for consumers,” said Stephen Brobeck, a senior fellow at the Consumer Federation of America. Under the current system, he said, “Sellers are overcharged, buyers are unable to negotiate commissions and as a result home costs are higher.”

In most markets, making an offer of compensation to a buyer’s agent is a condition for advertising a home on a multiple-listing service—a vital tool for marketing a home. NAR has said those commission offers are negotiable. Without the current structure, the group argued, buyers from more modest backgrounds would have to redirect funds away from their down payments toward paying an agent—or go without their own representation.

NAR is playing defense on a growing number of legal fronts. A much larger suit against the Realtors association and brokerages, involving 20 markets from Philadelphia to Miami, could go to trial next year in an Illinois federal court. The damages in that trial could top $40 billion, according to an analyst estimate.
Shortly after Tuesday’s verdict, the same plaintiffs’ lawyers in the Missouri case said they had filed a new nationwide lawsuit against NAR and other large brokerage companies, including Redfin and Compass.
Antitrust officials at the Justice Department also are closely following developments. They previously filed papers in both of the pending private cases to object to some of the claims made by NAR.

Tuesday’s verdict could have major financial ramifications for the defendants, including NAR. The association had net income of nearly $80 million and net assets of more than $760 million in 2021, according to an annual tax filing.
 
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Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?

Realtors still think it's worth 5% to setup some canned DocuSigns they get filled out right maybe half the time.
 
I can't speak to this lawsuit, but I sold a house in Los Angeles near the peak of the housing bubble back in 2006. I called the real estate agent who helped me purchase the home 5 years prior and told her that due to the unreal increase in prices during that time I felt a smaller commission percentage was in order. She didn't have a problem with that. Seems to me if people are paying a higher commission it's because they didn't bother to negotiate.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?
Based on this ridiculous response, it's quite clear you don't understand the conspiracy and antitrust aspects of the case. The following excerpts from another WSJ article might be helpful. And since the plaintiffs won the case, obviously it's not as simple-minded as "Hey, let's just negotiate the rate!"


The plaintiffs in the class actions, who are home sellers in different regions of the country, say the longstanding industry rules amount to a conspiracy to keep costs high in violation of U.S. antitrust law. Buyers, they say, have little incentive to negotiate with their agents because they don’t pay them directly, while sellers are loath to experiment with a lower commission rate for fear that agents will steer clients away from their home.

An academic study released this month provides some evidence of these concerns. It found that home listings offering lower buyers’ agent commissions take significantly more time to sell and are much less likely to sell at all, even after controlling for factors such as the home’s age and location and listing-agent attributes.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?

Realtors still think it's worth 5% to setup some canned DocuSigns they get filled out right maybe half the time.

Of the two homes I have purchased, both I found online, called my buyer's agent, and told him I wanted to take a look. He spent maybe a grant total of four hours between the two, and took home 3% each. But like they said, I didn't have much incentive to negotiate. Frankly, it never crossed my mind.
 
I've thought for a long time that real estate agents are pretty much used car salesmen. I've only been on the buying side, but that should seem like easy money as a buyers agent. They don't have to show or list and split the commission. But instead, what I've found is that they try their best to push their own listings so that the can make money on both sides. Slimy ####s.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?

Realtors still think it's worth 5% to setup some canned DocuSigns they get filled out right maybe half the time.

Of the two homes I have purchased, both I found online, called my buyer's agent, and told him I wanted to take a look. He spent maybe a grant total of four hours between the two, and took home 3% each. But like they said, I didn't have much incentive to negotiate. Frankly, it never crossed my mind.

Why would realtors negotiate? It only lowers their payout. One of the more frustrating parts of the process
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?

Realtors still think it's worth 5% to setup some canned DocuSigns they get filled out right maybe half the time.

Of the two homes I have purchased, both I found online, called my buyer's agent, and told him I wanted to take a look. He spent maybe a grant total of four hours between the two, and took home 3% each. But like they said, I didn't have much incentive to negotiate. Frankly, it never crossed my mind.

Why would realtors negotiate? It only lowers their payout. One of the more frustrating parts of the process

I'd think a seller's agent might be open to it, as @John123 talked about above. Especially if's a high value property. Seller's agent, hell no.
 
I still have my real estate license but have been turning down work for the last couple of years. I basically spent the entire 2019 and 2020 working full time hours, mostly as a buyers agent. At the end of both of those years I had zero commissions and was pretty in the negative after paying all MY fees ect. Unfortunately that was pretty normal for tons of agents I know. Mentally it's horrible for agents and families.

The people that are making huge bucks are all the sellers agents. This is both corporations picking up client leads online and selling them like zillow does, or super old school big shot agents who have a million clients from the 80's and 90's. Most agents you know are barely scraping by (if that) even though their Facebook profiles says otherwise. Most are just fronting, hoping their image of success will bring them some business. The super hot ones will do a little better for a while obviously. My point is it suxor to be a real estate agent. You eat alot of crap, and make no money. PEOPLE SUXOR REALLY BAD IN 2023 ALSO. Selfishness is at an all time high. I really couldn't believe the things I was seeing at the end. Even from "friends"

My mortgage buds had refis keeping them going through 2021 at least, now they are all in bad shape also with high rates and no business.

Edited to add, my company was getting 2% on almost everything I did in 2019? 2/3 of 2% of $200,000.00 (and then taxes) every few months is rough to live on. I know some of the giants around the country would charge their selling clients like 6%, and then pay the buyers agent 1.5% somehow. We have one of them still going. Always using that lady on TV with Cuban to advertise.
 
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A realtor’s commission shouldn’t be a flat % of a home’s selling price, rather, it should reflect the time and effort they invest in the sale. And they shouldn’t be incentivized to sell the most expensive homes. I think billing based on hours, like lawyers, makes more sense.
 
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It will be interesting to see what happens. As @PIK95 mentions, it's a tough business. I own a firm, although it's more focused on property management. From a company standpoint, you have to do huge volume to pay the bills. My sister in law got into the business over a year ago in a very hot market and has maybe one sale. In NC there are currently 41,000 homes for sale and 83,000 active brokers, about 12,000 sold in September at a median price of $364k. That $18,200 in commission based on 5% x 12,000 = $218,400,000 in commissions. Divided by 83,000 active brokers = $2,631 for the month. Deduct the firms cut and expenses and you're looking at $1500-$2000 grand a month in income. Not many people are living on that. Sure we don't need that many agents but the reality is they are out there and you have to compete against them.

I've considered a low cost limited service option. The problem is that as soon as you touch something the liability is high. Telling the real estate commission that you didn't disclose something because you weren't being paid to find that out isn't going to fly. A lot of the "I-firms" have been slapped by the real estate commission for not disclosing things they should have known to the consumer. Seems reasonable to think that everything you need is on the internet. My only counter to that is the data feeds are pulling from mls which is being financed by the agents. I've been in the industry for almost 25 years expecting change and it just never comes. Maybe these lawsuits are the catalyst for change, but there needs to be a regulated model ready to go if you're going to sue the current model out of existence.

Zillow and Opendoor tried to create a new model. Opendoors stock price has fallen from $30 to $2, Zillow from the $100-$150 range to $35. I'm sure there were some smart folks there that found out flipping homes isn't easy.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?
There WAS a period several years ago when everything was moving to the internet, where it was hard to get your house out there to be seen like it would be seen on large corporate sites. It was also harder to get your own mls number etc. As you say though, these things have gotten significantly easier and the resources are better. In the current day world of real estate, this seems like a rather silly lawsuit, but this may have been one that started way back then when it was more difficult. That said we've sold three houses in the last 15 years and negotiated realtor commissions in each one. It's never been a problem for us.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?
It's a slippery slope, I've been in sales for decades, mortgages, insurance, fundraising (yes that's sales)
-They always want to cut commissions but the sales people are what drives the sales. Most products don't just move themselves

That said, I sorta understand the disdain for mortgage brokers and also used car/new car salesmen
But my irritation isn't that they get paid, it's that they are incompetent many times and still magically get a check

-We had a home in Miami, one day I'm sweeping around for a couple showing my Realtor told me were happening and a woman knocks and ask me why we didn't accept her offer or call her back when she was interested in the property. I called my RE Agent to find out what was up and she said the woman wasn't financially viable and didn't think she could actually come up with the financing and I said "I'll take it form here" and that woman bought our home, she was friends with the neighbors on the block behind us and wanted to be close to them.

***I still had to fork out the 6% Realtor Fee and I cussed that ***** out at the signing, all the way to the parking lot, every Google review I could paste to her name with my contact info should anyone need verification that this woman was a THIEF!***

So I understand some of the issues people have with Realtors, I worked in mortgages for many years and every call from them was just "Show me the baby"
Anyways, back to our regularly scheduled program.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?

This trial was held in Kansas City so it was really a jury of your peers! This one is far from over but a jury verdict is not often easy to overturn. It is very real and there are more of these lawsuits pending in different parts of the country yet to come. The fact that some buyers may have options other than going with a NAR agent is apparently not a defense to an antitrust claim.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?
It's a slippery slope, I've been in sales for decades, mortgages, insurance, fundraising (yes that's sales)
-They always want to cut commissions but the sales people are what drives the sales. Most products don't just move themselves

That said, I sorta understand the disdain for mortgage brokers and also used car/new car salesmen
But my irritation isn't that they get paid, it's that they are incompetent many times and still magically get a check

-We had a home in Miami, one day I'm sweeping around for a couple showing my Realtor told me were happening and a woman knocks and ask me why we didn't accept her offer or call her back when she was interested in the property. I called my RE Agent to find out what was up and she said the woman wasn't financially viable and didn't think she could actually come up with the financing and I said "I'll take it form here" and that woman bought our home, she was friends with the neighbors on the block behind us and wanted to be close to them.

***I still had to fork out the 6% Realtor Fee and I cussed that ***** out at the signing, all the way to the parking lot, every Google review I could paste to her name with my contact info should anyone need verification that this woman was a THIEF!***

So I understand some of the issues people have with Realtors, I worked in mortgages for many years and every call from them was just "Show me the baby"
Anyways, back to our regularly scheduled program.
You could have filed a compliant with your Real Estate commission. Not presenting an offer is a very serious offense. Also their Broker In Charge likely would have dropped your commission significantly to avoid a complaint being filed.
 
A realtor’s commission shouldn’t be a flat % of a home’s selling price, rather, it should reflect the time and effort they invest in the sale. And they shouldn’t be incentivized to sell the most expensive homes. I think billing based on hours, like lawyers, makes more sense.
The fixed % fee based on price makes little sense, just like it doesn't in the "asset management" business.

For a $1 million home, the standard commission is $60,000 (6%).

For a $1.5 million home, that same fee suddenly becomes $90,000, a $30,000 increase. Simply because the house is bigger.

I've asked, and it's amazing how sensitive that topic is for realtors.

But there is virtually no difference in the amount/quality of work done to sell those two respective homes.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?
I would apply this question to car dealerships. Why do we have them?


My sister in law got into the business over a year ago in a very hot market and has maybe one sale.
It's become a field really popular with people jumping from other fields. I swear every NYC realtor showing apartments is a former bartender.
 
A realtor’s commission shouldn’t be a flat % of a home’s selling price, rather, it should reflect the time and effort they invest in the sale. And they shouldn’t be incentivized to sell the most expensive homes. I think billing based on hours, like lawyers, makes more sense.
The fixed % fee based on price makes little sense, just like it doesn't in the "asset management" business.

For a $1 million home, the standard commission is $60,000 (6%).

For a $1.5 million home, that same fee suddenly becomes $90,000, a $30,000 increase. Simply because the house is bigger.

I've asked, and it's amazing how sensitive that topic is for realtors.

But there is virtually no difference in the amount/quality of work done to sell those two respective homes.
Well it is negotiable....

and yes that was on the list of talking points we got today.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?
I would apply this question to car dealerships. Why do we have them?


My sister in law got into the business over a year ago in a very hot market and has maybe one sale.
It's become a field really popular with people jumping from other fields. I swear every NYC realtor showing apartments is a former bartender.
It regards to the later....it's because the perception is that it's an easy business.

To the former, because I have some trust that I'm not either getting scammed or have to meet a strange with $20-$75k in $100 bills. Also paying for the easy of facilitating a deal and having some sort of warranty.
 
To the former, because I have some trust that I'm not either getting scammed or have to meet a strange with $20-$75k in $100 bills. Also paying for the easy of facilitating a deal and having some sort of warranty
Other places work it out without dealerships
 
To the former, because I have some trust that I'm not either getting scammed or have to meet a strange with $20-$75k in $100 bills. Also paying for the easy of facilitating a deal and having some sort of warranty
Other places work it out without dealerships
What is your definition of dealership and are you talking other countries? I'm including Tesla and CarMax in that group even though they aren't true dealerships.

1. Private party
2. Used car lot
3. Every thing else - dealer
 

and yes that was on the list of talking points we got today.
Sorry. Which talking points?
As a member, I received an update on the case. It will be appealed. Along with that we received a list of bullet points about how awesome we are.
Good luck with the appeal.

I'm sure the $81.5 million the NAR spent last year on D.C. lobbying (largest lobbyist of all industries in 2022) will come in handy.
 

and yes that was on the list of talking points we got today.
Sorry. Which talking points?
As a member, I received an update on the case. It will be appealed. Along with that we received a list of bullet points about how awesome we are.
Good luck with the appeal.

I'm sure the $81.5 million the NAR spent last year on D.C. lobbying (largest lobbyist of all industries in 2022) will come in handy.
Lol. It's like the mafia or pharma industry.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?
I would apply this question to car dealerships. Why do we have them?


My sister in law got into the business over a year ago in a very hot market and has maybe one sale.
It's become a field really popular with people jumping from other fields. I swear every NYC realtor showing apartments is a former bartender.
It regards to the later....it's because the perception is that it's an easy business.

The large brokerages encourage and facilitate the model of the part-time, fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants agent. I understand the large broker companies run their own training programs in which the prospective brokers pay to attend the class, so its actually a profit-center for them to sign up as many agents as they can and cut them loose on unsuspecting consumers who are under the false impression the RE agent profession is regulated with actual meaningful professional standards.
 

and yes that was on the list of talking points we got today.
Sorry. Which talking points?
As a member, I received an update on the case. It will be appealed. Along with that we received a list of bullet points about how awesome we are.
Good luck with the appeal.

I'm sure the $81.5 million the NAR spent last year on D.C. lobbying (largest lobbyist of all industries in 2022) will come in handy.

Anywhere RE and Re/Max settled out of the lawsuits earlier this month for about $80m and $60m each respectively. Seems like a smart move in retrospect.
 
Lot's of jobs look easy but aren't. People saying it's easy money ... then why didn't you do it ? If the grass is so green for realtors, everyone would be doing it. They go without income for months at a time. It's a lot more legal than people think. And mostly clients are tough to deal with in ANY sales job. Also, you don't have to use one. Nobody is forcing you. The appeal stands a good chance to win. But in the process you will see changes in the industry and I'm not sure most are good for the consumer. Cheaper doesn't = better. This same fee structure is typical in the yacht selling industry, but at 10%. I guess that will be among the next targets for lawyers trying to get 38% of the class action lawsuit penalty.
 
A realtor’s commission shouldn’t be a flat % of a home’s selling price, rather, it should reflect the time and effort they invest in the sale. And they shouldn’t be incentivized to sell the most expensive homes. I think billing based on hours, like lawyers, makes more sense.
The fixed % fee based on price makes little sense, just like it doesn't in the "asset management" business.

For a $1 million home, the standard commission is $60,000 (6%).

For a $1.5 million home, that same fee suddenly becomes $90,000, a $30,000 increase. Simply because the house is bigger.

I've asked, and it's amazing how sensitive that topic is for realtors.

But there is virtually no difference in the amount/quality of work done to sell those two respective homes.
The end result here would be more money paid on the less expensive home.
 
Is this real?

I’m sorry - but a seller by now in this world of finding info on the internet can find out on their own the cost of selling a house. If they don‘t like the rate that’s on them to negotiate.

And there are plenty of resources available online to sell your house on your own. Seriously - is this an Onion article?
I would apply this question to car dealerships. Why do we have them?


My sister in law got into the business over a year ago in a very hot market and has maybe one sale.
It's become a field really popular with people jumping from other fields. I swear every NYC realtor showing apartments is a former bartender.
It regards to the later....it's because the perception is that it's an easy business.

The large brokerages encourage and facilitate the model of the part-time, fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants agent. I understand the large broker companies run their own training programs in which the prospective brokers pay to attend the class, so its actually a profit-center for them to sign up as many agents as they can and cut them loose on unsuspecting consumers who are under the false impression the RE agent profession is regulated with actual meaningful professional standards.
They have to. With commissions splits so high, they have to make there money off desk fees and ancillary services. I'm paying 2% off the top on Errors and Omissions insurances. If you want to cover rent, pay for a broker in charge, and a receptionist you have to have volume. Also an interesting battle between the brick and mortar firms vs. the I-firms.

Real estate brokers are pretty tight regulated in my state, but I understand that varies state to state.
 
Lot's of jobs look easy but aren't. People saying it's easy money ... then why didn't you do it ? If the grass is so green for realtors, everyone would be doing it. They go without income for months at a time. It's a lot more legal than people think. And mostly clients are tough to deal with in ANY sales job. Also, you don't have to use one. Nobody is forcing you. The appeal stands a good chance to win. But in the process you will see changes in the industry and I'm not sure most are good for the consumer. Cheaper doesn't = better. This same fee structure is typical in the yacht selling industry, but at 10%. I guess that will be among the next targets for lawyers trying to get 38% of the class action lawsuit penalty.
Everyone is doing it. That’s part of the problem. Barrier to entry is extremely low. There’s more realtors than houses for sale.
 
Good anecdote that illustrates the conspiracy issue and why "just negotiate it" isn't as easy as it sounds...

In most markets, publishing the amount of compensation offered to the buyer’s agent is a condition for listing a home on a multiple-listing service—a vital tool for marketing a home.

In the current environment, trying an alternative approach can be risky. When Jon Anderson decided to sell his khaki-colored three-bedroom house in Colorado Springs four years ago, the veteran home seller was fed up with paying a real-estate agent tens of thousands of dollars.

He hired a low-fee brokerage company, REX, that was bucking a widespread industry rule by not guaranteeing the seller would pay a commission to the home buyer’s agent. At the time, homes were often selling in days, but for several weeks Anderson said virtually no buyers even toured his home. It eventually sold for $15,000 less than he originally listed it.

“I believe that when my house went on the market through REX that we were completely and utterly blackballed by the real-estate market,” he said.

REX, which is now defunct, recorded a call with a buyer’s agent interested in Anderson’s home until she realized there was no guaranteed commission. “I won’t bother to show it,” she said. A former REX data scientist said the recording and about 600 similar ones have been turned over to plaintiffs’ attorneys and the Justice Department.
 
Lot's of jobs look easy but aren't. People saying it's easy money ... then why didn't you do it ? If the grass is so green for realtors, everyone would be doing it. They go without income for months at a time. It's a lot more legal than people think. And mostly clients are tough to deal with in ANY sales job. Also, you don't have to use one. Nobody is forcing you. The appeal stands a good chance to win. But in the process you will see changes in the industry and I'm not sure most are good for the consumer. Cheaper doesn't = better. This same fee structure is typical in the yacht selling industry, but at 10%. I guess that will be among the next targets for lawyers trying to get 38% of the class action lawsuit penalty.
Everyone is doing it. That’s part of the problem. Barrier to entry is extremely low. There’s more realtors than houses for sale.

Number of realtors is actually going down now. It's cyclical with the market. People see transactions, and they are quick to jump in. Like you say there is an extremely low barrier. But then they realize it's not the easy money they think it is and they get out. The good agents do well, the bad ones don't. And the bad ones give the profession a bad name. Same as most sales industry.

People don't work for free. In any job. Who is gonna show 25+ houses to a buyer, write multiple offers, deal w all the BS, and get paid nothing. People are supposed to get paid for their expertise and effort. In any job. Frankly I could see good realtos asking for more than the commission % that has been offered. Especially as the listing agent There's no guarantee this is going to lower commissions, though it's likely on the buyer side.

Additionally, bigger brokers are going to leave the MLS. I think Compass and Realogy are the biggest two brokerages with like $250B/year in transactions each. What if they simply left the MLS and created their own. Compass already has the ability to do this, and companies like Redfin certainly do. And stopped feeding the listings to Zillow. It would be more like cars ... you want to see what Mercedes has you go to them. You want to see what Ford has, you go to them. If I was a big brokerage I'd go this way because there can't be collusion if you are the only company involved.
 
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A realtor’s commission shouldn’t be a flat % of a home’s selling price, rather, it should reflect the time and effort they invest in the sale. And they shouldn’t be incentivized to sell the most expensive homes. I think billing based on hours, like lawyers, makes more sense.
The fixed % fee based on price makes little sense, just like it doesn't in the "asset management" business.

For a $1 million home, the standard commission is $60,000 (6%).

For a $1.5 million home, that same fee suddenly becomes $90,000, a $30,000 increase. Simply because the house is bigger.

I've asked, and it's amazing how sensitive that topic is for realtors.

But there is virtually no difference in the amount/quality of work done to sell those two respective homes.
Yeah this has been my tipping argument and frustration about tipping for years. I don't know why a server at a fine restaurant who pops one wine bottle and maybe refills the glass once should get 20% of a two hundred dollar bottle (so basically $40 for these two tasks) when waitress Dottie at the local diner refills a $2 cup of coffee for somebody like eight times (which likely impacts her tip less than $1). I get that the server probably has more training in presentation, but to me the actual job here seems at the very least comparable.

@Drunken knight do you have an opinion on this? I don't want to devalue the fine servers who create a very nice dining experience at a good restaurant, but I genuinely don't get the logic of the server's tip being variable based solely on the list price of the wine (or entree or whatever).

I apologize in advance for somewhat derailing the thread
 
Lot's of jobs look easy but aren't. People saying it's easy money ... then why didn't you do it ? If the grass is so green for realtors, everyone would be doing it. They go without income for months at a time. It's a lot more legal than people think. And mostly clients are tough to deal with in ANY sales job. Also, you don't have to use one. Nobody is forcing you. The appeal stands a good chance to win. But in the process you will see changes in the industry and I'm not sure most are good for the consumer. Cheaper doesn't = better. This same fee structure is typical in the yacht selling industry, but at 10%. I guess that will be among the next targets for lawyers trying to get 38% of the class action lawsuit penalty.
And those lawyers go without income for months at a time, deal with challenging clients, and it's a lot more legal what they do than people think. Further, and of course, if their jobs were so easy everybody else should be doing it.
 
Good anecdote that illustrates the conspiracy issue and why "just negotiate it" isn't as easy as it sounds...

In most markets, publishing the amount of compensation offered to the buyer’s agent is a condition for listing a home on a multiple-listing service—a vital tool for marketing a home.

In the current environment, trying an alternative approach can be risky. When Jon Anderson decided to sell his khaki-colored three-bedroom house in Colorado Springs four years ago, the veteran home seller was fed up with paying a real-estate agent tens of thousands of dollars.

He hired a low-fee brokerage company, REX, that was bucking a widespread industry rule by not guaranteeing the seller would pay a commission to the home buyer’s agent. At the time, homes were often selling in days, but for several weeks Anderson said virtually no buyers even toured his home. It eventually sold for $15,000 less than he originally listed it.

“I believe that when my house went on the market through REX that we were completely and utterly blackballed by the real-estate market,” he said.

REX, which is now defunct, recorded a call with a buyer’s agent interested in Anderson’s home until she realized there was no guaranteed commission. “I won’t bother to show it,” she said. A former REX data scientist said the recording and about 600 similar ones have been turned over to plaintiffs’ attorneys and the Justice Department.
Well duh. Are you going to show up to work if your employer says they aren't guaranteeing your pay? Are you going to get sued because you don't want to work for a company who is offering to pay you?

This is like paying to list something on ebay and saying we aren't guaranteeing you get your item.

In a situation like this, REX and the seller should state clearly that they are not paying a buyer's agent fee. Yes each agent could call the seller and negotiate a fee in advance, but you're not dealing with a known commodity. Should I be sued by private auto sellers because I refuse to by a car from them and prefer to use a dealer?

Obviously buyer's agency where the buyer is expecting to pay the agent directly rather than the seller would resolve a lot of this. I wonder how much education of the public it would take for them to accept signing up for paying a buyer's agent of of pocket.
 
Anyone going to jail?
It's a civil suit.
Punitive damages?
Per the article, treble (i.e. 3x) damages may be in play presumably due to the jurisdiction's specific antitrust statutes.
And there's a bigger one likely on the way next year covering 20 mkts. Likely in $40 billion range according to WSJ.

IMO it's not the money, it's the potential breaking up of the MLS-based monopolistic practices
 
Lot's of jobs look easy but aren't. People saying it's easy money ... then why didn't you do it ? If the grass is so green for realtors, everyone would be doing it. They go without income for months at a time. It's a lot more legal than people think. And mostly clients are tough to deal with in ANY sales job. Also, you don't have to use one. Nobody is forcing you. The appeal stands a good chance to win. But in the process you will see changes in the industry and I'm not sure most are good for the consumer. Cheaper doesn't = better. This same fee structure is typical in the yacht selling industry, but at 10%. I guess that will be among the next targets for lawyers trying to get 38% of the class action lawsuit penalty.
And those lawyers go without income for months at a time, deal with challenging clients, and it's a lot more legal what they do than people think. Further, and of course, if their jobs were so easy everybody else should be doing it.
Point well taken. I respect lawyers. But hate frivolous class action lawsuits (not that this particular one is frivolous).
 
Well duh. Are you going to show up to work if your employer says they aren't guaranteeing your pay? Are you going to get sued because you don't want to work for a company who is offering to pay you?

This is like paying to list something on ebay and saying we aren't guaranteeing you get your item.

In a situation like this, REX and the seller should state clearly that they are not paying a buyer's agent fee. Yes each agent could call the seller and negotiate a fee in advance, but you're not dealing with a known commodity. Should I be sued by private auto sellers because I refuse to by a car from them and prefer to use a dealer?

Obviously buyer's agency where the buyer is expecting to pay the agent directly rather than the seller would resolve a lot of this. I wonder how much education of the public it would take for them to accept signing up for paying a buyer's agent of of pocket.
Getting chippy, so obviously this is starting to hit closer and closer to home.

The plaintiffs won the lawsuit, in part because of evidence provided that looked just like what I quoted.

Maybe you should take your flippant response to the NAR lawyers, so they can do a better job in the appeal.
 

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