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And on that day, Net Neutrality died (1 Viewer)

Kanil said:
It's not fear mongering... here's a list I stole from someone else showing where these ISPs tried to do exactly what's being said will be done.

2005 - Madison River Communications was blocking VOIP services (they viewed it as competing with their telecom business).  FCC stopped it.

2005 - Comcast was denying access to p2p services without notifying customers.

2007-2009 - AT&T was blocking Skype and other VOIP services because it was competing with their cell phone business.

2011 - Metro PCS tried to block all streaming except Youtube.  They sued the FCC over this one.

2011-2013 - ATT, Sprint, and Verizon were blocking access to Google wallet.  The same companies were busted collaborating to block apps from the Android marketplace.

2012 - Verizon tried to get all tethering apps blocked from the Google marketplace because it allowed users to avoid their $20/month tethering fee.  This was after they guaranteed they wouldn't do that as part of a winning bid on an airwaves auction.

2012 - ATT tried to block access to FaceTime unless customers paid more money.

2013 - Verizon stated the only thing stopping them from favoring some content providers were net neutrality rules.

This is what will happen in the future.  Look at Portugal's ISPs if you want to see how it's going to work if this gets stripped:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Portugal ISP
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Does this mean if I have a stream box that wifi to that box could be blocked?

 
Hawks64 said:
Well it wouldn't show you were streaming per se, but it would show large amounts of traffic to a VPN service. They could charge more access the VPN services, they could throttle the traffic to VPN and they could simply block it as well.
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I thought I remembered reading that deep packet inspection could show if you were using bittorrent even via a VPN.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn that extended to other ID of data types. 

 
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AhrnCityPahnder said:
I thought I remembered reading that deep packet inspection could show if you were using bittorrent even via a VPN.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn that extended to other ID of data types. 
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I'm sure they can do something to ID traffic types but not 100% especially if encrypted VPNs are being used.

 
matttyl said:
Huh?  Maybe where you live.  Where I live, I have one option - Comcast.  And I have a wife who works from home, so we need high speed internet.  They could literally raise their rates to a few hundred a month, just for internet service, and we'd pay it. 
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Did this happen from 2000 to 2015?  If not, why is there panic that it will happen today?

 
Snotbubbles said:
Does this mean if I have a stream box that wifi to that box could be blocked?
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As long as they inform you that's what their policy is, they'll be free to block it if they choose.

 
matttyl said:
Yeah, sorry - missed that.  I live out in the sticks a bit, but I have friends in more urban areas that have options for the internet service.
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I live in a moderately-sized US city and have literally 1 option for internet.

 
Steve Tasker said:
I live in a moderately-sized US city and have literally 1 option for internet.
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We have 6 different providers in the area, but they all own various streets.  My neighbor on the next street over has a different provider than me and that can't be changed unless they go to some wireless solution like satellite.  So even in a town that has multiple providers, the individual houses have virtually no say over who they would like to have as their provider.

 
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If they pushed this through and added that any municipality could start their own ISP without worry of getting sued and power companies be allowed to add internet to their offerings then the threat of real competition would keep a lot of these money grubbing monopolies in check.

 
shader said:
Did this happen from 2000 to 2015?  If not, why is there panic that it will happen today?
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And it did happen in forms. Comcast throttled and made Netflix pay more. Verizon blocked tethering apps. Now that we are more reliant on internet the impacts could likely be much more significant.

 
shader said:
It was in effect from the moment you learned about the internet until 2015.  
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Not true. It was considered agency policy to promote net neutrality before 2015 even though it was not codified, and the ISPs behaved accordingly so as not to trigger the agency to respond. Here's a statement from the FCC chair on that policy from all the way back in 2004. Here's a detailed history of the agency's actions to preserve net neutrality.

Now they know the agency no longer cares. Totally different ballgame.

 
LAUNCH said:
If they pushed this through and added that any municipality could start their own ISP without worry of getting sued and power companies be allowed to add internet to their offerings then the threat of real competition would keep a lot of these money grubbing monopolies in check.
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Except they can't. You still have to run on a Tier1 provider and have peering agreements in place to offer full internet access.

 
Steve Tasker said:
I live in a moderately-sized US city and have literally 1 option for internet.
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We have a couple in Lexington - but as others have noted it depends on where you live - they have effectively divided up the residential parts of the city.  There is a new company coming to town - MetroNet - that will provide 1 Gig service to the entire city - but the first places won't come on-line until summer 2018.  Not sure how long the roll out will be, or how reliable the service will be.

 
Scoresman said:
If this passes, would it not make sense for one of these companies to advertise that they aren't limiting/blocking anything and are essentially keeping the net neutral for their customers?  
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you mean the same companies who sold me 'unlimited data' for my phone, then secretly slowed me down b/c they didn't calculate what 'unlimited' really meant? 

gotcha

 
The onyl way I can see this as a win, is if cable/internet providers began paying web content creators for their content. Just like they are paying ESPN and HBO for their content. 

But they won't. 

So we are giving the internet providers the right to control content that they are not even paying for? 

 
glvsav37 said:
The onyl way I can see this as a win, is if cable/internet providers began paying web content creators for their content. Just like they are paying ESPN and HBO for their content. 

But they won't. 

So we are giving the internet providers the right to control content that they are not even paying for? 
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There is no winning here for the consumer.

First, internet providers will start charging more for service, and throttling heavy users - i.e. anyone who does not subscribe to cable.

Then - they will charge services like NetFlix and Hulu - and anyone else with a streaming service - NBC, ESPN, etc. for access to the "fast" lane - i.e. non-throttled lane

Then, those services will start charging consumers more to access the content to pay the ISP fees.

But stock in ISPs if you want to profit.  At least until 2021, when the Dems take control, and roll back the free money machine (unless of course those ISPs use their ill-gotten gains to bribe the Dems too...).

 
Norman Paperman said:
There is no winning here for the consumer.

First, internet providers will start charging more for service, and throttling heavy users - i.e. anyone who does not subscribe to cable.

Then - they will charge services like NetFlix and Hulu - and anyone else with a streaming service - NBC, ESPN, etc. for access to the "fast" lane - i.e. non-throttled lane

Then, those services will start charging consumers more to access the content to pay the ISP fees.

But stock in ISPs if you want to profit.  At least until 2021, when the Dems take control, and roll back the free money machine (unless of course those ISPs use their ill-gotten gains to bribe the Dems too...).
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I was kinda being sarcastic. I know there is no winning and I'm afraid that even if D's take back control, once this tiger is out of the cage, it aint going back 

 
"Sorry, coal_miner1956@comcast.net, www.freerepublic.com is not available under your current Comcast Internet Package.  Upgrade to the VIP Internet Suite today!"

 
Hawks64 said:
Except they can't. You still have to run on a Tier1 provider and have peering agreements in place to offer full internet access.
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Correct, but most of the traffic that would be throttled, at least for Americans, wouldn't need to go through Tier 1 providers.  

 
BREAKING NEWS: The following states will join New York in suing the FCC to defend #NetNeutrality protections: -California -Oregon -Vermont -Washington -Delaware -Hawaii -Iowa -Illinois -Massachusetts -Kentucky -Maine -Maryland -North Carolina -Mississippi -Pennsylvania -Virginia

 
LAUNCH said:
Correct, but most of the traffic that would be throttled, at least for Americans, wouldn't need to go through Tier 1 providers.  
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Not correct. You do realize that Comcast and at&t and Verizon host services right and provide access right? Those are Tier 1 providers.

 
Snotbubbles said:
We have Verizon and Comcast here in Philly.  They are always coming to our house offering reduced cost services.
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And this too makes sense.  One comes through cable lines, the other through phone/mobile.  I have yet to see an area where two cable providers are an option like being able to choose between xfinity and spectrum for example and that's the rub with the "competition" shtick the politicians are falsely throwing out there.

 
The Commish said:
And this too makes sense.  One comes through cable lines, the other through phone/mobile.  I have yet to see an area where two cable providers are an option like being able to choose between xfinity and spectrum for example and that's the rub with the "competition" shtick the politicians are falsely throwing out there.
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Same goes for the likes of Telco. I don't know much about Wow but it could work where they have agreements with Comcast to lease their lines since I don't think Wow has run all their own infrastructure.

 
Norman Paperman said:
We have a couple in Lexington - but as others have noted it depends on where you live - they have effectively divided up the residential parts of the city.  There is a new company coming to town - MetroNet - that will provide 1 Gig service to the entire city - but the first places won't come on-line until summer 2018.  Not sure how long the roll out will be, or how reliable the service will be.
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A couple streets over you can get Verizon FIOS, but not in my neighborhood.  Spectrum is my only cable internet option.

 
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LAUNCH said:
BREAKING NEWS: The following states will join New York in suing the FCC to defend #NetNeutrality protections: -California -Oregon -Vermont -Washington -Delaware -Hawaii -Iowa -Illinois -Massachusetts -Kentucky -Maine -Maryland -North Carolina -Mississippi -Pennsylvania -Virginia
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I am somewhat shocked about Kentucky - but we have a Democratic AG.  Once the governor finds out, it should get interesting...

 
LAUNCH said:
BREAKING NEWS: The following states will join New York in suing the FCC to defend #NetNeutrality protections: -California -Oregon -Vermont -Washington -Delaware -Hawaii -Iowa -Illinois -Massachusetts -Kentucky -Maine -Maryland -North Carolina -Mississippi -Pennsylvania -Virginia
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Legalguys, will this delay whatever date this was supposed to take effect?  Can it be tied up in courts long enough for a non-useless administration to be voted in and reverse it?

 
Steve Tasker said:
A couple streets over you can get Verizon FIOS, but not in my neighborhood.  Spectrum is my only cable internet option.
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We have Spectrum - other neighborhoods have a semi-local cable company - Windstream. 

I am always a little envious when I am browsing on a VPN, and can look at services and rates that Spectrum offers in more competitive markets.  Here, its like both companies are running a monopoly, and can charge whatever they want for services...

 
I’ve voted R my entire life but if this doesn’t change my vote will. I suspect many more feel the same way. 

How stupid of Republicans to back something so unpopular and such an active part of everyone’s daily life. 

 
culdeus said:
Congrats to Trump on accomplishing something.  
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I actually haven't seen Trump openly make a statement on which side of the scale he is on this is due in three years. His actions suggest he is for this but he hasn't been as overt about it as many issues. 

 
Scoresman said:
Legalguys, will this delay whatever date this was supposed to take effect?  Can it be tied up in courts long enough for a non-useless administration to be voted in and reverse it?
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Impossible to predict, but it's a tough case to make here. To delay implementation while they litigate it they'd have to get a preliminary injunction, which among other things requires them to show that whatever harm you allege couldn't be corrected if you ultimately win the case. In the regulatory context it's easier to get if there's something physical being approved.  Like for example if the government authorizes a project you think harms the environment, you can't un-harm the environment three years down the road. I don't know if there's something like that here.

 
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