Andre Hall (1 Viewer)

[Deuce'sWild]

Copied and pasted from KFFL Fantasy Football Insider report:

Ah, the Denver Broncos backfield - a bane for fantasy owners since 1995. Selvin Young should see 18 to 20 touches, but Andre Hall could receive 12 to 15, including the goal line touches. This could be a "hot hand" situation, but Hall suddenly has a new fantasy shine. Both remain good matchups against the Oakland Raiders' shaky run D, though.

With Jamal Lewis, Ryan Grant, and McGahee looking like GTD....owners may want to take a flyer on a guy like Hall this week. The Raiders Run DEF was horrid last year, and the pass def was solid. With Marshall out, the Broncos may lean on the running game this week.

Just some food for thought.

I am trying to decide between Kevin Smith or Andre Hall this week with Jamal being a GTD and thought this might be useful info.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'm not particularly familiar with KFFL's "Fantasy Insider" report, but is this an opinion from someone connected to the Broncos, or just an analyst on KFFL's off-the-cuff analysis? I ask because it reads like the latter. And as someone who's been in the "business" of predicting NFL performance for the better part of the last decade, I've come to know that predicting what Shanny plans on doing with his RBs before we see it on the field is akin to predicting when Pasquino is going to win a staff league.

 

[Deuce'sWild]

I'm not particularly familiar with KFFL's "Fantasy Insider" report, but is this an opinion from someone connected to the Broncos, or just an analyst on KFFL's off-the-cuff analysis? I ask because it reads like the latter. And as someone who's been in the "business" of predicting NFL performance for the better part of the last decade, I've come to know that predicting what Shanny plans on doing with his RBs before we see it on the field is akin to predicting when Pasquino is going to win a staff league.

JW...there's the LINK

 

[Deuce'sWild]

15 carries @ 5 ypc is 75 yds and a TD or 2 if this holds true. I'd be willing to bet that beats Ryan Grants stat line vs Minn.

 

[Diamond]

Might not mean anything, but we have seen this on the field during the preseason. Hall and Young were splitting carries pretty evenly, and Hall came in in the redzone on several occasions.

 

[RTB1]

I am trying to decide between Kevin Smith or Andre Hall this week with Jamal being a GTD and thought this might be useful info.

I am in the exact same boat with Lewis, with the exact same choice between K. Smith or Hall.I KNOW that Smith is starting. What that means as far as production, I'm not sure, but he'll get touches and opportunity.I DON'T know that Hall will get 12-15 touches plus the goal line work. I'm not willing to plug him in and risk getting 5 touches if Young gets "hot" and Shanny sticks with him.Now, having said that: I was planning on starting Sidney Rice as my flex player this week (I have S. Smith and Marshall out with suspensions this week, so lineup is thin). Hall makes an intriguing option as my flex player instead of Rice.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'm at a loss as to why Andre Hall vs. Kevin Smith is even a debate. Kevin Smith is, and has been, the starting tailback for the Lions since the day he got signed. His head coach and his offensive coordinator are hellbent on running the ball this year, and the only other tailback on the roster of note is Rudi Johnson, who just signed, doesn't know the playbook, and couldn't win a job in Cincy.

Hall may not even touch the ball, and if he does, it will be as a part timer.

 

[daivos]

I'm at a loss as to why Andre Hall vs. Kevin Smith is even a debate. Kevin Smith is, and has been, the starting tailback for the Lions since the day he got signed. His head coach and his offensive coordinator are hellbent on running the ball this year, and the only other tailback on the roster of note is Rudi Johnson, who just signed, doesn't know the playbook, and couldn't win a job in Cincy.

Hall may not even touch the ball, and if he does, it will be as a part timer.

I think it is inevitable that Hall becomes the go-to guy in the backfield for the Broncos, so I highly disagree. He's going to play a role much like Marion Barber did last year for Dallas. Even though he isn't the 'starter', he'll be the feature back.Good things happened when he entered the game last year, and he was quite banged up. This year, he is healthy, and in the preseason, he was getting more carries in the red-zone than Selvin Young, who tended to carry the ball between the 20's.

Quote from Rocky Mountain News (Read More Here: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008...-comfort-zone/)

"And with the Broncos facing injury problems at running back the next week, he was named the starter against Chicago. On Hall's first carry, he suffered a severe high ankle sprain, then another lower sprain in the same ankle on the same drive.

He nonetheless finished with 26 carries for 98 yards and added a 65-yard reception. The next day, he barely could get around and was in a walking boot."

 

[WarRedbirds]

It's become the norm to expect big things from the backup running back. My guess is that the situation is fluid. The Broncos will give Hall some opportunities, and he'll earn more time if he does well.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

With coach Shanahan you just never know, but based on what I saw at training camp Andre Hall will be very involved in the Broncos offense. He is a more natural RB than Selvin Young, and is a willing and able inside runner despite his smaller size. Young is a better receiver than Hall, and will be the starter so long as he can stay healthy.

I'm not a Kevin Smith fan. He dances too much in the backfield, shows little patience, and DOES NOT like to get hit. Rudi won't have much of a role this week, but eventually will be the starter for that team.

According to our good friend Carlos Holmes from the Dayton Daily News, Rudi getting cut from the Bengals had nothing to do with his hamstring - it had to do with the Bengals wanting to open up some cap space and get other players (housh) signed to big money deals. It's not like Chris Perry outperformed a fully healhty Rudi in training camp.

I believe the Broncos are going to be a passing team this year. Recent history has shown us that they struggle in short yardage and goalline situations - so I think they will pass more in the red zone too. however, if there are goalline carries to be distributed they will mostly go to Andre Hall.

unlike some other fantasy sites, to my knowledge KFFL doesn't grease the pockets of any local beat writers to get them scoop. Remember, with Selvin being the better receiving option "10-15 touches" would likely mean carries.

 

[thecardiackid]

I am trying to decide between Kevin Smith or Andre Hall this week with Jamal being a GTD and thought this might be useful info.

I am in the exact same boat with Lewis, with the exact same choice between K. Smith or Hall.I KNOW that Smith is starting. What that means as far as production, I'm not sure, but he'll get touches and opportunity.I DON'T know that Hall will get 12-15 touches plus the goal line work. I'm not willing to plug him in and risk getting 5 touches if Young gets "hot" and Shanny sticks with him.Now, having said that: I was planning on starting Sidney Rice as my flex player this week (I have S. Smith and Marshall out with suspensions this week, so lineup is thin). Hall makes an intriguing option as my flex player instead of Rice.

I have Hall in @ Flex over S Rice, Javon, DJax, Norwood, Owen D, and Jarrett (CAR). Still considering Daniels/Norwood as a late swap, but I'm thinking Hall should be good for 65+ and .7 td this week. Hopefully w/ 2 or 3 catches thrown in. Especially w BM out. DJax will struggle vs. that OAK secondary, and the other main option is a rookie @ this point in the passing game. This will be VERY interesting as long as he's a flex option for FF teams. I wouldn't want to be counting on him yet for anything close to RB2 production, but if SY gets hurt or starts fumbling Hall appears to have the better part of this RBBC - IF he's consistently getting the goal line / red zone work and cashing in enough to keep the role.That said, it's still way to early to get excited. The first couple of games will (hopefully) give owners something to plan around.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

I am trying to decide between Kevin Smith or Andre Hall this week with Jamal being a GTD and thought this might be useful info.

I am in the exact same boat with Lewis, with the exact same choice between K. Smith or Hall.I KNOW that Smith is starting. What that means as far as production, I'm not sure, but he'll get touches and opportunity.I DON'T know that Hall will get 12-15 touches plus the goal line work. I'm not willing to plug him in and risk getting 5 touches if Young gets "hot" and Shanny sticks with him.Now, having said that: I was planning on starting Sidney Rice as my flex player this week (I have S. Smith and Marshall out with suspensions this week, so lineup is thin). Hall makes an intriguing option as my flex player instead of Rice.

It's a very intriguing option, but remember this is a road opener for the Broncos - not good history there. However, it is the Raiders and Shanny will do anything and everything to win this game. As I said on the 5MD, it could be a blowout, but it could be a shutout.

 

[gasFace]

thats big

 

[Eviloutsider]

I have to try and decide between Ronnie and Andre but if they are right in the 12-15 touches plus goaline I would lean towards Andre Hall. The problem that we all no about if the 0 that we all know could happen.

 

[WarRedbirds]

This is definitely a situation that I'd want to take a wait and see approach on...if I had any other good options at all.

 

[Jason Wood]

With coach Shanahan you just never know, but based on what I saw at training camp Andre Hall will be very involved in the Broncos offense. He is a more natural RB than Selvin Young, and is a willing and able inside runner despite his smaller size. Young is a better receiver than Hall, and will be the starter so long as he can stay healthy. I'm not a Kevin Smith fan. He dances too much in the backfield, shows little patience, and DOES NOT like to get hit. Rudi won't have much of a role this week, but eventually will be the starter for that team. According to our good friend Carlos Holmes from the Dayton Daily News, Rudi getting cut from the Bengals had nothing to do with his hamstring - it had to do with the Bengals wanting to open up some cap space and get other players (housh) signed to big money deals. It's not like Chris Perry outperformed a fully healhty Rudi in training camp.I believe the Broncos are going to be a passing team this year. Recent history has shown us that they struggle in short yardage and goalline situations - so I think they will pass more in the red zone too. however, if there are goalline carries to be distributed they will mostly go to Andre Hall.unlike some other fantasy sites, to my knowledge KFFL doesn't grease the pockets of any local beat writers to get them scoop. Remember, with Selvin being the better receiving option "10-15 touches" would likely mean carries.

I certainly don't discount the idea that Ahmad Hall could be the main man in Denver, I suspect that's going to be a very fluid situation this year. I summarily disagree with your view (as you know) on both Kevin Smith and Rudi Johnson. Time will tell, but the fact the Lions are keeping two RBs on the active roster, one of which was going to be Tatum Bell and now is Rudi "Plodder when I was healthy, Non factor now that I'm not" Johnson is as clear an indication to me that the Lions are going to give Smith a TON of work as anything. Smith had almost 2,600 yards rushing last year, I find the idea he hates contact a bit hard to stomach. Certainly he's not the most physical back in the draft, but a TON of his yards came up the middle and after initial contact. On a related note, one of these days I'm going to pen an article about the myth of "goal line" specialists.

 

[T Bell]

Ahmad Hall

Freudian slip?

 

[Jason Wood]

Ahmad Hall

Freudian slip?

Indeed!

 

[Jason Wood]

Also, one final point relative to what Cec is saying.

The question before us is whether the original poster should start Andre Hall or Kevin Smith THIS WEEK. Whatever you think they're going to do over the course of the season shouldn't factor into the decision. Kevin Smith is going to get the lion's share of the work for Detroit in Week One, and has earned that role and maintained it for the last few months. Whether Rudi gets work in subsequent weeks is a decision for subsequent weeks. By the same token, Andre Hall MAY be a major part of the Broncos backfield, but we don't know that one way or another heading into this weekend.

Always take the sure thing over the roll of the dice in week one.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.

Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience.

And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Also, one final point relative to what Cec is saying.The question before us is whether the original poster should start Andre Hall or Kevin Smith THIS WEEK. Whatever you think they're going to do over the course of the season shouldn't factor into the decision. Kevin Smith is going to get the lion's share of the work for Detroit in Week One, and has earned that role and maintained it for the last few months. Whether Rudi gets work in subsequent weeks is a decision for subsequent weeks. By the same token, Andre Hall MAY be a major part of the Broncos backfield, but we don't know that one way or another heading into this weekend. Always take the sure thing over the roll of the dice in week one.

big

 

[Jason Wood]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience. And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

89 times, but who's counting? Again, I think far too much is made about the impact fullbacks and "big" goal line specialists can have. Every fantasy season we hear these discussions and yet, with VERY FEW exceptions, they don't materialize - at least in circumstances where the lead back doesn't get more short yardage touches and TDs anyway.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

12-15 doesn't seem out of line. Sounds to me like this is an endorsement of Selvin Young as the starter.

 

[Ned]

wow this might be the best attempt at an ac hijack ever.

 

[Parmcat]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.

Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience.

And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

Did they cut Marcus Thomas?

 

[Thumper]

Copied and pasted from KFFL Fantasy Football Insider report:

Ah, the Denver Broncos backfield - a bane for fantasy owners since 1995. Selvin Young should see 18 to 20 touches, but Andre Hall could receive 12 to 15, including the goal line touches. This could be a "hot hand" situation, but Hall suddenly has a new fantasy shine. Both remain good matchups against the Oakland Raiders' shaky run D, though.

With Jamal Lewis, Ryan Grant, and McGahee looking like GTD....owners may want to take a flyer on a guy like Hall this week. The Raiders Run DEF was horrid last year, and the pass def was solid. With Marshall out, the Broncos may lean on the running game this week.

Just some food for thought.

I am trying to decide between Kevin Smith or Andre Hall this week with Jamal being a GTD and thought this might be useful info.

Andre Hall = Mike Anderson?

 

[rgmnchr]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience. And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

I gotta say that from the 2 preseason games I saw this year I was impressed with the patience I saw from Smith. He does dance a little bit, waiting for on opening, but when he makes a decision he goes with it. He can make people miss has good cut abck ability. I can see him getting no gain on a few carries but being able to break the long one on the next. There will be one rookie running back that will have a huge impact fantasy wise this year. With WR's taking the extraman outof the box and the fact that he has the job on all 3 downs, its all set up for Smith.Take it FWIW. I build houses for a living not break down NFL RB's.

 

[moleculo]

no way Hall gets 12-15 touches. His roll will be closer to 8-12 per game (give or take a few).

 

[Jason Wood]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.

Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience.

And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

Did they cut Marcus Thomas?

Sorry, that's my mistake. I had seen a number of reports that Thomas was to be cut post Johnson's officially signing but you're right, he so far has stuck on the 53-man roster.

 

[Burning Sensation]

no way Hall gets 12-15 touches. His roll will be closer to 8-12 per game (give or take a few).

 

[baconisgood]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience. And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

89 times, but who's counting? Again, I think far too much is made about the impact fullbacks and "big" goal line specialists can have. Every fantasy season we hear these discussions and yet, with VERY FEW exceptions, they don't materialize - at least in circumstances where the lead back doesn't get more short yardage touches and TDs anyway.

How many of those few times have been Denver RBs?

 

[GoL]

I'm playing Hall over Mo Morris as my flex this week. Neither guy has a great history to base this decision on so I'm making my decision based on the D they will go against. I suspect Denver will get enough carries to make both Young and Hall viable options this week.

Plus based on the preseason Hall will get the goal line carries. Until Wood lays out his disertation I'd rather have M Barber over J Jones and I think that is the same situation this year in Denver.

If Hall gets 40 + 1 TD I'll be happy.

 

[Jason Wood]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.

Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience.

And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

89 times, but who's counting? Again, I think far too much is made about the impact fullbacks and "big" goal line specialists can have. Every fantasy season we hear these discussions and yet, with VERY FEW exceptions, they don't materialize - at least in circumstances where the lead back doesn't get more short yardage touches and TDs anyway.

How many of those few times have been Denver RBs?

Great question, and the answer is "not many."Here are Denver's leading goal line rushers (5 yards and in) over the 2002-2007 period:

First Last Year GLCs GLYds GLTD Rus Yds TDs

Clinton Portis 2002 15 24 9 274 1509 15

Mike Anderson 2002 5 7 1 83 385 2

Olandis Gary 2002 2 1 1 37 147 1

Reuben Droughns 2002 1 1 1 4 11 1

Clinton Portis 2003 16 15 6 290 1593 14

Quentin Griffin 2003 3 0 0 93 342 0

Mike Anderson 2003 13 14 3 70 257 3

Reuben Droughns 2003 0 0 0 6 14 0

Reuben Droughns 2004 11 18 3 275 1240 6

Quentin Griffin 2004 4 -1 0 84 311 2

Tatum Bell 2004 2 1 0 75 396 3

Garrison Hearst 2004 1 4 1 20 81 1

Mike Anderson 2005 25 31 9 240 1014 12

Tatum Bell 2005 9 5 2 172 919 8

Ron Dayne 2005 1 1 0 52 270 1

Cecil Sapp 2005 1 2 0 5 21 0

Kyle Johnson 2005 1 3 1 4 9 1

Tatum Bell 2006 6 3 1 233 1031 2

Mike Bell 2006 17 12 8 157 677 8

Cecil Sapp 2006 0 0 0 10 80 0

Kyle Johnson 2006 0 0 0 5 30 0

Travis Henry 2007 7 10 3 167 691 4

Selvin Young 2007 7 -4 0 140 727 1

Andre Hall 2007 3 -5 0 44 216 2

Cecil Sapp 2007 4 9 2 18 59 2

As you can see, except for 2003 when Mike Anderson got about half the goal line carries despite being 3rd on the team in rushing attempts, Shanny has pretty much given the money touches to his main back.

 

[Jason Wood]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.

Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience.

And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

89 times, but who's counting? Again, I think far too much is made about the impact fullbacks and "big" goal line specialists can have. Every fantasy season we hear these discussions and yet, with VERY FEW exceptions, they don't materialize - at least in circumstances where the lead back doesn't get more short yardage touches and TDs anyway.

How many of those few times have been Denver RBs?

Great question, and the answer is "not many."Here are Denver's leading goal line rushers (5 yards and in) over the 2002-2007 period:

First Last Year GLCs GLYds GLTD Rus Yds TDs

Clinton Portis 2002 15 24 9 274 1509 15

Mike Anderson 2002 5 7 1 83 385 2

Olandis Gary 2002 2 1 1 37 147 1

Reuben Droughns 2002 1 1 1 4 11 1

Clinton Portis 2003 16 15 6 290 1593 14

Quentin Griffin 2003 3 0 0 93 342 0

Mike Anderson 2003 13 14 3 70 257 3

Reuben Droughns 2003 0 0 0 6 14 0

Reuben Droughns 2004 11 18 3 275 1240 6

Quentin Griffin 2004 4 -1 0 84 311 2

Tatum Bell 2004 2 1 0 75 396 3

Garrison Hearst 2004 1 4 1 20 81 1

Mike Anderson 2005 25 31 9 240 1014 12

Tatum Bell 2005 9 5 2 172 919 8

Ron Dayne 2005 1 1 0 52 270 1

Cecil Sapp 2005 1 2 0 5 21 0

Kyle Johnson 2005 1 3 1 4 9 1

Tatum Bell 2006 6 3 1 233 1031 2

Mike Bell 2006 17 12 8 157 677 8

Cecil Sapp 2006 0 0 0 10 80 0

Kyle Johnson 2006 0 0 0 5 30 0

Travis Henry 2007 7 10 3 167 691 4

Selvin Young 2007 7 -4 0 140 727 1

Andre Hall 2007 3 -5 0 44 216 2

Cecil Sapp 2007 4 9 2 18 59 2

As you can see, except for 2003 when Mike Anderson got about half the goal line carries despite being 3rd on the team in rushing attempts, Shanny has pretty much given the money touches to his main back.

This data is hard to read, I'll post a blog post on the matter and format the chart so it's easily read.

 

[moleculo]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.

Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience.

And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

89 times, but who's counting? Again, I think far too much is made about the impact fullbacks and "big" goal line specialists can have. Every fantasy season we hear these discussions and yet, with VERY FEW exceptions, they don't materialize - at least in circumstances where the lead back doesn't get more short yardage touches and TDs anyway.

How many of those few times have been Denver RBs?

Great question, and the answer is "not many."Here are Denver's leading goal line rushers (5 yards and in) over the 2002-2007 period:

First Last Year GLCs GLYds GLTD Rus Yds TDs

Clinton Portis 2002 15 24 9 274 1509 15

Mike Anderson 2002 5 7 1 83 385 2

Olandis Gary 2002 2 1 1 37 147 1

Reuben Droughns 2002 1 1 1 4 11 1

Clinton Portis 2003 16 15 6 290 1593 14

Quentin Griffin 2003 3 0 0 93 342 0

Mike Anderson 2003 13 14 3 70 257 3

Reuben Droughns 2003 0 0 0 6 14 0

Reuben Droughns 2004 11 18 3 275 1240 6

Quentin Griffin 2004 4 -1 0 84 311 2

Tatum Bell 2004 2 1 0 75 396 3

Garrison Hearst 2004 1 4 1 20 81 1

Mike Anderson 2005 25 31 9 240 1014 12

Tatum Bell 2005 9 5 2 172 919 8

Ron Dayne 2005 1 1 0 52 270 1

Cecil Sapp 2005 1 2 0 5 21 0

Kyle Johnson 2005 1 3 1 4 9 1

Tatum Bell 2006 6 3 1 233 1031 2

Mike Bell 2006 17 12 8 157 677 8

Cecil Sapp 2006 0 0 0 10 80 0

Kyle Johnson 2006 0 0 0 5 30 0

Travis Henry 2007 7 10 3 167 691 4

Selvin Young 2007 7 -4 0 140 727 1

Andre Hall 2007 3 -5 0 44 216 2

Cecil Sapp 2007 4 9 2 18 59 2

As you can see, except for 2003 when Mike Anderson got about half the goal line carries despite being 3rd on the team in rushing attempts, Shanny has pretty much given the money touches to his main back.

Tatum Bell 2006 6 3 1 233 1031 2Mike Bell 2006 17 12 8 157 677 8

Cecil Sapp 2006 0 0 0 10 80 0

Kyle Johnson 2006 0 0 0 5 30 0

in 2006 Tatum Bell had 233 carries and Mike bell had 157 carries, but Mike Bell had almost 3x as many goal line carries as Tatum Bell (and 8 TD's).

This is especially significant in that (A) it's recent and (B) this is the carry/utilization model that many (myself included) project WRT Young and Hall.

 

[bostonfred]

The question before us is whether the original poster should start Andre Hall or Kevin Smith THIS WEEK.

I thought we didn't do that here?

 

[bostonfred]

Personally, I wouldn't start Hall over a starting back until I'd seen how things were going to play out, and he's not at the top of the list of non starting backs I'd start, either. I think he's a huge value compared to where he got drafted, but I think it's nuts to start a guy like Hall unless you are the guy who picked Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall and Willis McGahee as your starters and are trying to hit the lottery with a win in week one.

 

[Bermuda_Chub]

I'm with Lammey on this one. As a Brandon Marshall owner (and keeper) in multiple leagues, I've turned into something of a surrogate Broncos fan, and I've watched every snap of '07 and every relevant snap this pre-season. Since TD went down lo those many years ago, it's always been my auction day mantra to stay far far away from the Broncos backfield. This year, Andre Hall necessitated an exception. He was cheap, he is talented, and he stands a better than 50/50 shot to be a very productive back for a good stretch of this season. Watch for him on your ww, or grab him in an early trade before people realize his value -- this kid is going to be good.

 

[Deuce'sWild]

I'm not starting Hall this week, and wasn't asking if I should. Just pointing out that he could be a decent option this week for owners looking for some help. I was simply saying I was considering him over K. Smith to give you an idea of what I'm looking at.

 

[packersfan]

I think the current Denver backfield is reminiscent of the Tatum Bell-Mike Bell combo of two seasons ago. I compared Selvin Young to Tatum Bell last season and I stand by that comparison. I think he's a guy best suited to getting 12-15 carries a game and he'll break down (just like Tatum did) if he gets 20+ a game. Two seasons ago, Tatum got off to a great start and was even leading the conference in rushing at one point. But he wasn't built physically for the rigors of being a starting RB and Mike Bell quickly surpassed him. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened this season as well - Selvin is the Denver RB to own early, Hall is the one later. I don't either guy but I'd be very nervous if I was a Young owner right now because I do think Hall is going to become a major factor offensively.

Of course, this is Shanahan we're talking about so he could sign Floyd Little to be the starter tomorrow.

 

[Jason Wood]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.

Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience.

And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

89 times, but who's counting? Again, I think far too much is made about the impact fullbacks and "big" goal line specialists can have. Every fantasy season we hear these discussions and yet, with VERY FEW exceptions, they don't materialize - at least in circumstances where the lead back doesn't get more short yardage touches and TDs anyway.

How many of those few times have been Denver RBs?

Great question, and the answer is "not many."Here are Denver's leading goal line rushers (5 yards and in) over the 2002-2007 period:

First Last Year GLCs GLYds GLTD Rus Yds TDs

Clinton Portis 2002 15 24 9 274 1509 15

Mike Anderson 2002 5 7 1 83 385 2

Olandis Gary 2002 2 1 1 37 147 1

Reuben Droughns 2002 1 1 1 4 11 1

Clinton Portis 2003 16 15 6 290 1593 14

Quentin Griffin 2003 3 0 0 93 342 0

Mike Anderson 2003 13 14 3 70 257 3

Reuben Droughns 2003 0 0 0 6 14 0

Reuben Droughns 2004 11 18 3 275 1240 6

Quentin Griffin 2004 4 -1 0 84 311 2

Tatum Bell 2004 2 1 0 75 396 3

Garrison Hearst 2004 1 4 1 20 81 1

Mike Anderson 2005 25 31 9 240 1014 12

Tatum Bell 2005 9 5 2 172 919 8

Ron Dayne 2005 1 1 0 52 270 1

Cecil Sapp 2005 1 2 0 5 21 0

Kyle Johnson 2005 1 3 1 4 9 1

Tatum Bell 2006 6 3 1 233 1031 2

Mike Bell 2006 17 12 8 157 677 8

Cecil Sapp 2006 0 0 0 10 80 0

Kyle Johnson 2006 0 0 0 5 30 0

Travis Henry 2007 7 10 3 167 691 4

Selvin Young 2007 7 -4 0 140 727 1

Andre Hall 2007 3 -5 0 44 216 2

Cecil Sapp 2007 4 9 2 18 59 2

As you can see, except for 2003 when Mike Anderson got about half the goal line carries despite being 3rd on the team in rushing attempts, Shanny has pretty much given the money touches to his main back.

Tatum Bell 2006 6 3 1 233 1031 2Mike Bell 2006 17 12 8 157 677 8

Cecil Sapp 2006 0 0 0 10 80 0

Kyle Johnson 2006 0 0 0 5 30 0

in 2006 Tatum Bell had 233 carries and Mike bell had 157 carries, but Mike Bell had almost 3x as many goal line carries as Tatum Bell (and 8 TD's).

This is especially significant in that (A) it's recent and (B) this is the carry/utilization model that many (myself included) project WRT Young and Hall.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't dispute that Andre Hall COULD be a major part of the Broncos offense, and the 2006 mix would be something that, at least on the surface, seems perfectly reasonable. What I have an issue with is this notion of "vulturing" goal line carries...i.e., a back that's going to see precious little time in the regular offense but is then explicitly brought in to log goal line touches at the expense of the team's main work horse(s). A committee isn't what I have an issue with, that's a real possibility. But several times in this thread, as it relates to both the Denver situation and the Felton/Detroit situation, it's been brought up that "Player X" could steal goal line touches from "Player Y." That rarely happens, even in Denver.

Here are some (hopefully) more cogent thoughts on the matter:

http://blog.footballguys.com/2008/09/06/my...ver-case-study/

 

[Bears_Man2]

This is the first year I've invested any in the Bronco run game in several years. Both the guys are coming cheap. With so many questions in Miami/TN/Carolina (the RB's that go around Selvin), the price of handcuffing Hall to Young is far far less than the handcuffs of the other 3 aforementioned scenarios. You almost have to go RB Rounds 5&6 now to lock up those RB situations.

 

[Saint]

These kind of discussions are why I stopped drafting Denver RBs. Too many questions week to week. Looking at Wood's stats, they tend to share the carries a bunch, from a fantasy perspective, it looks like a gamble on who you are starting week in and week out. Personally, I would rather wait till a few games to see what Shanahan does.

 

[moleculo]

I hate to hijack but Kevin Smith's *almost* record yardage came against the likes of Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, UAB, Southern Mississippi, etc. And it required a record number of carries to get there.

Add in the fact that he was tackled for a loss/stopped for no gain almost 90 times his junior year - that shows lack of patience.

And let's not forget about Jerome Felton either. he could be the goalline back, plus he's not a bad receiver and we shouldn't discount his ability to run the ball. The Lions carrying 2 backs, to me, says Felton will get some carries.

89 times, but who's counting? Again, I think far too much is made about the impact fullbacks and "big" goal line specialists can have. Every fantasy season we hear these discussions and yet, with VERY FEW exceptions, they don't materialize - at least in circumstances where the lead back doesn't get more short yardage touches and TDs anyway.

How many of those few times have been Denver RBs?

Great question, and the answer is "not many."Here are Denver's leading goal line rushers (5 yards and in) over the 2002-2007 period:

First Last Year GLCs GLYds GLTD Rus Yds TDs

Clinton Portis 2002 15 24 9 274 1509 15

Mike Anderson 2002 5 7 1 83 385 2

Olandis Gary 2002 2 1 1 37 147 1

Reuben Droughns 2002 1 1 1 4 11 1

Clinton Portis 2003 16 15 6 290 1593 14

Quentin Griffin 2003 3 0 0 93 342 0

Mike Anderson 2003 13 14 3 70 257 3

Reuben Droughns 2003 0 0 0 6 14 0

Reuben Droughns 2004 11 18 3 275 1240 6

Quentin Griffin 2004 4 -1 0 84 311 2

Tatum Bell 2004 2 1 0 75 396 3

Garrison Hearst 2004 1 4 1 20 81 1

Mike Anderson 2005 25 31 9 240 1014 12

Tatum Bell 2005 9 5 2 172 919 8

Ron Dayne 2005 1 1 0 52 270 1

Cecil Sapp 2005 1 2 0 5 21 0

Kyle Johnson 2005 1 3 1 4 9 1

Tatum Bell 2006 6 3 1 233 1031 2

Mike Bell 2006 17 12 8 157 677 8

Cecil Sapp 2006 0 0 0 10 80 0

Kyle Johnson 2006 0 0 0 5 30 0

Travis Henry 2007 7 10 3 167 691 4

Selvin Young 2007 7 -4 0 140 727 1

Andre Hall 2007 3 -5 0 44 216 2

Cecil Sapp 2007 4 9 2 18 59 2

As you can see, except for 2003 when Mike Anderson got about half the goal line carries despite being 3rd on the team in rushing attempts, Shanny has pretty much given the money touches to his main back.

Tatum Bell 2006 6 3 1 233 1031 2Mike Bell 2006 17 12 8 157 677 8

Cecil Sapp 2006 0 0 0 10 80 0

Kyle Johnson 2006 0 0 0 5 30 0

in 2006 Tatum Bell had 233 carries and Mike bell had 157 carries, but Mike Bell had almost 3x as many goal line carries as Tatum Bell (and 8 TD's).

This is especially significant in that (A) it's recent and (B) this is the carry/utilization model that many (myself included) project WRT Young and Hall.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't dispute that Andre Hall COULD be a major part of the Broncos offense, and the 2006 mix would be something that, at least on the surface, seems perfectly reasonable. What I have an issue with is this notion of "vulturing" goal line carries...i.e., a back that's going to see precious little time in the regular offense but is then explicitly brought in to log goal line touches at the expense of the team's main work horse(s). A committee isn't what I have an issue with, that's a real possibility. But several times in this thread, as it relates to both the Denver situation and the Felton/Detroit situation, it's been brought up that "Player X" could steal goal line touches from "Player Y." That rarely happens, even in Denver.

Here are some (hopefully) more cogent thoughts on the matter:

http://blog.footballguys.com/2008/09/06/my...ver-case-study/

ok, I misunderstood. You are correct in that the Denver FB rarely gets any carries, especially at the stripe. The only action the FB sees is possibly a swing out pass - that has happened a handfull of times. A more likely fulture type scenario is a QB scrambling for a TD. Cutler is more likely to vulture a TD from the RBBC duo of Hall/Young than Hillis.

 

[packersfan]

These kind of discussions are why I stopped drafting Denver RBs. Too many questions week to week.

Yup. I've been suckered into it each of the past two seasons believing there was "value" to be had. But whether it was Tatum Bell, Selvin Young or Andre Hall, it always just became a mess and an impossible one to sort out from week to week. Whether Shanahan wants to be a RBBC head coach is a fair question, but there's no doubt he's become one. And he's the worst kind of RBBC head coach because there's no way to guess from quarter to quarter what he's going to do, much less from game to game. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Young started and got 2 carries and Hall came in and got 25 Monday night. That would just be par for the course for the Broncos' backfield these days.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I'm not particularly familiar with KFFL's "Fantasy Insider" report, but is this an opinion from someone connected to the Broncos, or just an analyst on KFFL's off-the-cuff analysis? I ask because it reads like the latter. And as someone who's been in the "business" of predicting NFL performance for the better part of the last decade, I've come to know that predicting what Shanny plans on doing with his RBs before we see it on the field is akin to predicting when Pasquino is going to win a staff league.

JW...there's the LINK

Thats all just one dudes opnion.

 

[thecardiackid]

These kind of discussions are why I stopped drafting Denver RBs. Too many questions week to week.

Yup. I've been suckered into it each of the past two seasons believing there was "value" to be had. But whether it was Tatum Bell, Selvin Young or Andre Hall, it always just became a mess and an impossible one to sort out from week to week. Whether Shanahan wants to be a RBBC head coach is a fair question, but there's no doubt he's become one. And he's the worst kind of RBBC head coach because there's no way to guess from quarter to quarter what he's going to do, much less from game to game. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Young started and got 2 carries and Hall came in and got 25 Monday night. That would just be par for the course for the Broncos' backfield these days.

DEN is the polar opposite of JAX in this department. At least in JAX's RBBC or even DAL last year, everyone knows (about) what to expect. I carried Hall over in a dynasty league after a WW pickup last season, so I'm *involved*. I did pass on the Broncos backfield (except Cutler a couple of times). My .02 is Hall is DEFINITELY worth his ADP, just to see what happens in this year's flavor. And maybe much more if Young gets hurt or falters. 12th round cost is easy, but I wouldn't have the stomach or patience for Young's in the 4th.

 

[destro]

The real question here is what do Selvin Young owners do with this. I've grown more and more concerned over him, as he's a guy I had slotted in as my flex, depending on the matchups. Even before reading this thread, I was thinking about him as a potential sell high guy if he can look good over the first week or two. I think that may be the shark play.

I also have guys like Chris Perry, Ray Rice, and after Marshall is back, Cotchery, who I could plug in at the flex, but I'm still concerned. I think I'm probably rolling with Selvin for Week 1, but that's probably only because Rice's situation is still up in the air and Perry has a tough matchup.

 

[Deuce'sWild]

Hall ended up leading the Broncos in carries (10) and rushing yds (61), but he did not get the goaline carries. Instead it was Pittman with 2 Tds.

Meanwhile, S. Young had 7 carries as the "starter"

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I'm dropping Selvin and Denver running backs like a stone. This monster is a beast.

Hightower is out there but I don't have waiver priority. Here is hoping no one is paying attention.