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Another killing at the hands of the Police (3 Viewers)

whoknew said:
I saw some video of this on twitter yesterday. I wish I could find it. Two alleged cops got out of a minivan, walked up to a protestor and took him back into the van. No identifying marks on their camo. No identifications made. No explaining why the person was being taken. That's completely reckless and dangerous. And it shouldn't be allowed in the US. 

What fed laws are being broken?

And people trying to go to work have the same rights as protestors. I'm not sure why that was brought up. Doesn't seem relevant.
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I have not seen the video, but it doesn't sound good.

The reason I bring up the federal employees is because that's why the outside feds were brought in.  The local presence didn't feel like they could protect the people and assets.

 
Manster said:
I have not seen the video, but it doesn't sound good.

The reason I bring up the federal employees is because that's why the outside feds were brought in.  The local presence didn't feel like they could protect the people and assets.
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And I don’t think people are taking exception to having federal authorities helping protect employees and the building.

 
Manster said:
I have not seen the video, but it doesn't sound good.

The reason I bring up the federal employees is because that's why the outside feds were brought in.  The local presence didn't feel like they could protect the people and assets.
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I read your article. If that's the case, why isn't the FBI handling this? Why is it ... well, we don't know. Some unknown alleged federal force in camouflage? 

 
whoknew said:
I read your article. If that's the case, why isn't the FBI handling this? Why is it ... well, we don't know. Some unknown alleged federal force in camouflage? 
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Yea I dunno....I need to look into this further.....are we sure it's not staged?  I mean who flippin knows anymore

 
Da Guru said:
I have stated this forever in Detroit.  All black police should patrol predominantly black areas.  Detroit has many black police shooting black perps and nobody cares.
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That's not the answer, though. That's segregation. Same as suggesting predominantly black schools should have black teachers if white teachers don't seem to do as well for them.

The answer is working on what's causing white officers to shoot at higher rates. 

 
gianmarco said:
That's not the answer, though. That's segregation. Same as suggesting predominantly black schools should have black teachers if white teachers don't seem to do as well for them.

The answer is working on what's causing white officers to shoot at higher rates. 
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For sure.  How much of that is unconscious bias that Pinky keeps bringing up.   Maybe there is a lot more training and focus on that in police departments for starters.  Not sure what that training looks like or where to start, but I am sure there are experts out there that do just that.  

 
gianmarco said:
That's not the answer, though. That's segregation. Same as suggesting predominantly black schools should have black teachers if white teachers don't seem to do as well for them.

The answer is working on what's causing white officers to shoot at higher rates. 
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Not talking about schools..,but in Detroit when a black cop shoots a black person it is a blurb late in the news cast. It might be cultural and better if black cops patrol black areas.  Then if and when a shooting happens it is not national news. 

 
Da Guru said:
Not talking about schools..,but in Detroit when a black cop shoots a black person it is a blurb late in the news cast. It might be cultural and better if black cops patrol black areas.  Then if and when a shooting happens it is not national news. 
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Again, this does not address the problem.  We can continue to repeat history again and again, or we can fix the issues once and for all.  The issue isnt whether its national news.  The issue is police violence.  Lets work on reducing that instead of covering it up and hoping noone notices. 

 
I agree (obviously) that police violence is an issue that obviously needs to be addressed.  That being said, and maybe I'm just an ignorant middle-aged white dude, but I do believe that it's a few bad apples and that the vast majority of police officers are well-intentioned and conscientious in carrying out their duty.

The other big problem that I have right now is the complete and utter lack of personal responsibility.  Dude is high on meth and charges a cop with a box cutter, ignores several commands to drop it, and gets shot.  Family is outraged and blames the officer.  Just ONCE, I would love to hear a family say, "We're grieving the loss of our son/brother/whatever, but he made one too many bad decisions, and unfortunately he paid the ultimate price for it."  

When it's seemingly NEVER the perp's fault and always cop's fault when there's an officer-involved shooting, I feel like it's kinda like the little boy who cried wolf.

 
gruecd said:
I agree (obviously) that police violence is an issue that obviously needs to be addressed.  That being said, and maybe I'm just an ignorant middle-aged white dude, but I do believe that it's a few bad apples and that the vast majority of police officers are well-intentioned and conscientious in carrying out their duty.

The other big problem that I have right now is the complete and utter lack of personal responsibility.  Dude is high on meth and charges a cop with a box cutter, ignores several commands to drop it, and gets shot.  Family is outraged and blames the officer.  Just ONCE, I would love to hear a family say, "We're grieving the loss of our son/brother/whatever, but he made one too many bad decisions, and unfortunately he paid the ultimate price for it."  

When it's seemingly NEVER the perp's fault and always cop's fault when there's an officer-involved shooting, I feel like it's kinda like the little boy who cried wolf.
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This has been discussed a lot in this thread, but the problem with your theory in the opening paragraph is that the "good apples" routinely cover for the bad apples. 

Also, I think there are a lot more bad apples than you think there are. I'm not saying they all set out to be bad people, but too many cops come to dehumanize their fellow citizens and have an "us v them" mentality. Its not good.

 
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sho nuff said:
Your claim is a 3 year old story is why the Feds are coming in, unidentified and hauling people off the streets?
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Separate incidents obviously, but being left high and dry by the local administration........it's the sort of thing that creates bad blood.

They explained why they are detaining the people they have.....they are trying to get instigators in custody....the department of homeland security explained, fyi.

 
whoknew said:
This has been discussed a lot in this thread, but the problem with your theory in the opening paragraph is that the "good apples" routinely cover for the bad apples. 

Also, I think there are a lot more bad apples than you think there are. I'm not saying they all set out to be bad people, but too many cops come to dehumanize their fellow citizens and have an "us v them" mentality. Its not good.
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Fair enough.

And with regard to my second point?  How nobody ever wants to admit that it's the criminal's own damn fault that he got shot?

 
Manster said:
Separate incidents obviously, but being left high and dry by the local administration........it's the sort of thing that creates bad blood.

They explained why they are detaining the people they have.....they are trying to get instigators in custody....the department of homeland security explained, fyi.
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Bad blood would seem to indicate you just wouldn't show up.  Not show up in more force, unidentified, un marked, and round people up.

I get what they have "explained"...they have not quite come up with a good explanation for many of the stories out there on this.

 
gruecd said:
Fair enough.

And with regard to my second point?  How nobody ever wants to admit that it's the criminal's own damn fault that he got shot?
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I doubt you will see a family ever say that. They are grieving. Not thinking rationally. Hard to blame them.

Otherwise, there are plenty of times when victims get blamed. I would guess that the scenario you described is pretty rare. But when it does happen, there are lots of people stating the point you made.

 
sho nuff said:
Bad blood would seem to indicate you just wouldn't show up.  Not show up in more force, unidentified, un marked, and round people up.

I get what they have "explained"...they have not quite come up with a good explanation for many of the stories out there on this.
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All I know is, I'm avoiding Portland like the plague, and it has more to do with ineffectual local leadership......I spose the surrounding real estate markets will boom as people leave in droves

 
whoknew said:
I doubt you will see a family ever say that. They are grieving. Not thinking rationally. Hard to blame them.

Otherwise, there are plenty of times when victims get blamed. I would guess that the scenario you described is pretty rare. But when it does happen, there are lots of people stating the point you made.
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"Victims?"  Just your choice of words is telling.  The vast majority of people who get shot in officer-involved shootings aren't victims.  They're criminals who made ####ty decisions.

 
gruecd said:
"Victims?"  Just your choice of words is telling.  The vast majority of people who get shot in officer-involved shootings aren't victims.  They're criminals who made ####ty decisions.
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This is the big disconnect. 

Reasonable people understand that attacking a police officer with a knife after you crash into his squad car will get you shot.

The other side views that as getting shot for a fender bender. 

We will never see eye to eye. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
This is the big disconnect. 

Reasonable people understand that attacking a police officer with a knife after you crash into his squad car will get you shot.

The other side views that as getting shot for a fender bender. 

We will never see eye to eye. 
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It is like the St. Louis prosecutor who is bringing charges against white couple who pointed guns at the peaceful protesters.  How can the prosecutor completely ignore that these 'peaceful' protesters were breaking the law by knowingly trespassing and at least one of the protesters was armed and pointing a gun also?  Sometimes it is not a disconnect, but really dishonesty.  

 
jon_mx said:
It is like the St. Louis prosecutor who is bringing charges against white couple who pointed guns at the peaceful protesters.  How can the prosecutor completely ignore that these 'peaceful' protesters were breaking the law by knowingly trespassing and at least one of the protesters was armed and pointing a gun also?  Sometimes it is not a disconnect, but really dishonesty.  
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I haven’t read all the info on the charges.  But i did see this couple has a history of reckless behavior and bigotry.  What were the charges btw?? I haven’t had a chance to read about it.

 
PinkydaPimp said:
I haven’t read all the info on the charges.  But i did see this couple has a history of reckless behavior and bigotry.  What were the charges btw?? I haven’t had a chance to read about it.
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Unlawful use of a weapon. It'll never stick. Total political stunt and abuse of the prosecutor's position, if you ask me. 

Governor has already said that he'll likely pardon if they're charged and somehow convicted.

 
jon_mx said:
It is like the St. Louis prosecutor who is bringing charges against white couple who pointed guns at the peaceful protesters.  How can the prosecutor completely ignore that these 'peaceful' protesters were breaking the law by knowingly trespassing and at least one of the protesters was armed and pointing a gun also?  Sometimes it is not a disconnect, but really dishonesty.  
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So...if they behaved criminally...no personal responsibility for them because others were behaving bad?  Do you see the problem with this at a time when you and others are making the claim that people killed by police often hold no responsibility in people's eyes?  This is not to say the charges aren't trumped up for political reasons...but its interesting given the conversation.

Though..I think most even here put the victim as responsible for his actions...which don't always justify the actions of the cops (especially considering the most outrage here comes from the shooting of unarmed men).

 
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parasaurolophus said:
Past criminal history matters now?
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First i didnt say criminal history.  What i read had to do with their character.  To litigation i believe it may be relevant(im not a lawyer though).  During a police stop, it should not since they aren't judge and jury. 

tbh i haven't read a ton on this case.  the brief info i did read made me think its unlikely any charges would be filed.  But i need to read more about this. Thats why i was surprised to hear charges were filed.  

 
PinkydaPimp said:
First i didnt say criminal history.  What i read had to do with their character.  To litigation i believe it may be relevant(im not a lawyer though).  During a police stop, it should not since they aren't judge and jury. 

tbh i haven't read a ton on this case.  the brief info i did read made me think its unlikely any charges would be filed.  But i need to read more about this. Thats why i was surprised to hear charges were filed.  
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You have been great in this thread so I will take my sarcasm and exit stage left.

 
sho nuff said:
So...if they behaved criminally...no personal responsibility for them because others were behaving bad?  Do you see the problem with this at a time when you and others are making the claim that people killed by police often hold no responsibility in people's eyes?  This is not to say the charges aren't trumped up for political reasons...but its interesting given the conversation.

Though..I think most even here put the victim as responsible for his actions...which don't always justify the actions of the cops (especially considering the most outrage here comes from the shooting of unarmed men).
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They didn't behave criminally.  That's the point.  They were defending their home, which they have a legal right to do (castle doctrine) in Missouri.

 
gruecd said:
They didn't behave criminally.  That's the point.  They were defending their home, which they have a legal right to do (castle doctrine) in Missouri.
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As this is in my backyard, I'm aware of both the area as well as this case.

They were not "defending their home" because the protestors did not go onto their property.  In fact, that street is considered public property for pedestrians (see below).  And you can see from this video here that protestors were not acting in some crazy, destructive fashion when they went in.  The gate was open and they were headed to the mayor's home.  Here is one of the original video feeds.

As to whether or not they were allowed to be there, that street is, in fact, open to the public for pedestrian traffic.  You can see the first few tweets from that link that explain it.  The gates are there to prevent vehicles from driving.  Just because someone decided to erect a sign saying "private property" doesn't make it so.  In other words, that couple literally started aiming guns at people walking on a sidewalk.  You can't do that.

Also, if you want to read more about this couple, have at it here. It's a long read, but they have a significant history of not being good neighbors.

Bottom line, they came out almost immediately with guns pointed at protestors who never went on their property and had every right to be there.  That's illegal and doesn't fall under the castle doctrine here in Missouri. 

 
So we don't have a big Antifa contingent here in Chicago, we are a liberal city but obviously nothing like Portland (in terms of large amounts of socialists/anarchists/anti-capitalism, and known for its activism and protests). We do have some though. CPD put out a pretty good video of them attacking CPD while they were ordered to guard the Columbus statue. CPD was definitely caught off guard because they assumed it was your run of the mill protest, believe it was 49? cops injured, 19 triaged, I know one Sergeant lost his vision in one eye.

video 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT8fJB7ZuFc&feature=youtu.be

video 2 - https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1284581737725665282

And today there were 14-16 shot (5 deaths) at a gang funeral in the South Side - video here https://twitter.com/SPOTNEWSonIG/status/1285769981968490496

I'm not sure what bringing in the Feds here to Chicago is going to do, or what their purpose will be, or methods - but if any of it is to quell the gun and gang violence somehow, I'm all for it.

 
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SayWhat? said:
I’ve got a different guess. Primarily an attempt to protect any assets she can, knowing that her husband (and her) is about to be wiped clean with the civil suit.
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You were correct, sir.

Former Minnesota Police Officer Derek Chauvin Charged With Tax Evasion
 

Derek Chauvin, the former Minneapolis police officer charged in the murder of George Floyd, has also been charged along with his wife with nine counts of felony tax evasion.

The Washington County prosecutor's office announced Wednesday that Chauvin and his wife, Kellie May Chauvin, face charges of underreporting their joint income from 2014 through 2019 by $464,433, including more than $95,000 that Derek Chauvin earned from off-duty security work.

"Revenue investigators initiated a review into the Chauvins in June 2020 for failure to timely file Minnesota individual income tax returns from 2016 to 2019 and fraudulently filing tax returns from 2014 to 2019," the office said in a statement. ...
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bigbottom said:
I posted this article and video in another thread that then got deleted for some reason. I honestly have no idea why. Maybe someone said something that merited deleting the entire thread.  In any event, the police in this video unnecessarily escalated this situation and the city is going to end up paying the victims a significant settlement in my opinion.

https://abc7news.com/exclusive-couple-celebrating-birthday-beaten-tased-by-sjpd/6370948/
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Wow, that's insane.

 
bigbottom said:
I posted this article and video in another thread that then got deleted for some reason. I honestly have no idea why. Maybe someone said something that merited deleting the entire thread.  In any event, the police in this video unnecessarily escalated this situation and the city is going to end up paying the victims a significant settlement in my opinion.

https://abc7news.com/exclusive-couple-celebrating-birthday-beaten-tased-by-sjpd/6370948/
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What I want to happen: cops held accountable.

What I expect to happen: slogans on NBA jerseys.

 
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