Another killing at the hands of the Police (3 Viewers)

[urbanhack]

Im not racist, but the jokes are sure funny.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ferguson-official-racist-emails-defends

 

[General Tso]

Isn't institutional racism more about policies and procedures that may have at their core a bias that favors one particular race? For instance, the SAT test?

I do think that some of the laws we have on the books unfairly apply to people in low income situations. A broken tail light doesn't get fixed in a poor neighborhood not because it looks good, but because the owner probably can't afford it.

 

[DrrDetroit]

Same ol.same ol. The only good to come from this would be if the federal government mandated a vest camera for all police officers. Maybe even have a website that people could watch whenever they wanted.

 

[jonessed]

Isn't institutional racism more about policies and procedures that may have at their core a bias that favors one particular race? For instance, the SAT test?

I do think that some of the laws we have on the books unfairly apply to people in low income situations. A broken tail light doesn't get fixed in a poor neighborhood not because it looks good, but because the owner probably can't afford it.

It looks like we have moved on to most people are secret racists.

 

[General Tso]

It's kind of funny seeing people make sweeping generalizations about the black community as a whole, and then passionately arguing that every single instance of violence by police officers is an isolated instance without any underlying causes or connection to any other incidents.

Not true. You just don't like my conclusion that the underlying problems and causes aren't related to racism. I have said over and over there is a pattern of abuse in the police force and I listed a number of underlying causes, including inferior training, lack of accountability, lack of support on and off the job with regard to stress management, and asking police to enforce stupid laws.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

It's kind of funny seeing people make sweeping generalizations about the black community as a whole, and then passionately arguing that every single instance of violence by police officers is an isolated instance without any underlying causes or connection to any other incidents.

Not true. You just don't like my conclusion that the underlying problems and causes aren't related to racism. I have said over and over there is a pattern of abuse in the police force and I listed a number of underlying causes, including inferior training, lack of accountability, lack of support on and off the job with regard to stress management, and asking police to enforce stupid laws.

I do think this will help overall. I just don't think its the only solution or underlying problem. To add to your list though, i think the police need to better interact with the communities they police. That goes for any community, rich, poor, black, white. Im hoping some of these more well publicized communities start to do something around this and what you mentioned. it would be a good start.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

For those of you who describe yourselves as "pro-cop," why is that?

I'm pro-cop because being a cop seems like a difficult job in many ways, and most cops seem to do a mostly good job of it most of the time.

I am also pro-firefighter, pro-engineer, pro-accountant, pro-bartender, pro-violinist, and pro-stripper, among other things.

That said, bad cops seem to do way more harm than bad members of most other professions. Bad violinists may be mildly annoying, but they seldom ruin people's lives. I am a big fan of taking steps to minimize the harm done by bad cops, such as requiring them to wear cameras when interacting with people.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Mayor calls it a bad decision. Murder is now just a bad decision. SMDH.

He called it a bad decision, which it obviously was. He did not use the word 'just'. HTH.

Murder is a sociopathic violent act committed by heinous individuals who are a danger to society. It is not a ####### "bad decision". HTH.

If we are dividing decisions into good ones and bad ones, I'd put this cop's decision in the second category.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Nobody wants to defend this guy because nobody wants to admit that these sorts of incidents are part of a systemic problem.

So if people did want to admit that these sorts of incidents are part of a systemic problem, people would want to defend this guy?

 

[Courtjester]

I know seeing a man murdered in cold blood is beyond terrible. I was shocked when I saw that video. I almost believed it was a staged or even a movie. But I think where some people are losing perspective is how many tens of thousands, heck it is easily hundreds of thousands of law enforcement contacts each year end normally? A warning issued? A ticket issued? A friendly "Have a good day?" To give you an example, a court division I was in today had 60 Defendants of all different races being seen just on one afternoon docket--only one of them was in custody. But this represents 60 police contacts on just that one docket that were just tickets issued and no violence or assaults. Well to be fair the in custody did throw bodily fluid on a police officer at the jail, but whatever.... This was just one Division in a building that has 33 Courtrooms in one moderate sized town.


I think Mattyl was attempting to flush this out earlier, but the statistical chances of anyone being shot by the police are so astronomically low, that it almost has to be up there with being struck by lightning. But listening to some in the media, it is like it is open season and hundreds of people are being gunned down in cold blood each night.

I believe a lot of people and some on this board are falling for the Summer of Shark hysteria that happened in 2001. I remember this well because every newscast would start out with a banner TERROR ON THE WATER and we would hear some story about a shark close call or possible attack. But yet when it was all said and done and the statistics complied, there were the same number of attacks that year as there had been every year.

Now we have the media saying "ANOTHER POLICE SHOOTING". It is very clear they are pushing an agenda of white cops being racists and maybe this would be true if every shooting that took place in this country was by white cops against black people. However, the facts simply do not support this. There are police shootings that take place where the officer is black or the person shot is white and you hear nothing about it. I would propose (DISCLAIMER: The following is Courtjester's opinion only) that the actual number of police shootings have steadily declined over the years not only because of the availability of non-lethal options, but considering the use of video camera, phones and a lot of houses having surveillance cameras, cops think twice now before pulling the trigger for fear of being caught on tape.

Are there idiot/murdering/scumbag cops? Yes. This officer is one case in point, but he is right where he needs to be and justice will be served I am confident of that. Keeping in mind, police officers don't do well in prison, so any sentence this guy gets is pretty much a death sentence no matter how you slice it.

I fully support body cameras for officers. I do think that is a step in the right direction. But saying we need to change everything or even as some have suggested have some street officers not be armed, because of something that happens .000001% of the time I think is overkill and borders on hysteria.

Just my .02--I think it has been great to read some of the posts throughout this thread, It is nice to see an intelligent respectful conversation about a subject here.

 

[Sweet J]

I know seeing a man murdered in cold blood is beyond terrible. I was shocked when I saw that video. I almost believed it was a staged or even a movie. But I think where some people are losing perspective is how many tens of thousands, heck it is easily hundreds of thousands of law enforcement contacts each year end normally? A warning issued? A ticket issued? A friendly "Have a good day?" To give you an example, a court division I was in today had 60 Defendants of all different races being seen just on one afternoon docket--only one of them was in custody. But this represents 60 police contacts on just that one docket that were just tickets issued and no violence or assaults. Well to be fair the in custody did throw bodily fluid on a police officer at the jail, but whatever.... This was just one Division in a building that has 33 Courtrooms in one moderate sized town.


I think Mattyl was attempting to flush this out earlier, but the statistical chances of anyone being shot by the police are so astronomically low, that it almost has to be up there with being struck by lightning. But listening to some in the media, it is like it is open season and hundreds of people are being gunned down in cold blood each night.

I believe a lot of people and some on this board are falling for the Summer of Shark hysteria that happened in 2001. I remember this well because every newscast would start out with a banner TERROR ON THE WATER and we would hear some story about a shark close call or possible attack. But yet when it was all said and done and the statistics complied, there were the same number of attacks that year as there had been every year.

Now we have the media saying "ANOTHER POLICE SHOOTING". It is very clear they are pushing an agenda of white cops being racists and maybe this would be true if every shooting that took place in this country was by white cops against black people. However, the facts simply do not support this. There are police shootings that take place where the officer is black or the person shot is white and you hear nothing about it. I would propose (DISCLAIMER: The following is Courtjester's opinion only) that the actual number of police shootings have steadily declined over the years not only because of the availability of non-lethal options, but considering the use of video camera, phones and a lot of houses having surveillance cameras, cops think twice now before pulling the trigger for fear of being caught on tape.

Are there idiot/murdering/scumbag cops? Yes. This officer is one case in point, but he is right where he needs to be and justice will be served I am confident of that. Keeping in mind, police officers don't do well in prison, so any sentence this guy gets is pretty much a death sentence no matter how you slice it.

I fully support body cameras for officers. I do think that is a step in the right direction. But saying we need to change everything or even as some have suggested have some street officers not be armed, because of something that happens .000001% of the time I think is overkill and borders on hysteria.

Just my .02--I think it has been great to read some of the posts throughout this thread, It is nice to see an intelligent respectful conversation about a subject here.

Spoken like a white middle class guy.

I'm not saying that anything you are saying is wrong. It's right for you. But there is a whole set of people out there who's reality is different. There is a whole population of people who view police with fear. And many of those people have good jobs and don't break the low and have no reason to fear police other than the color of their skin.

It blows my mind that non-minorities can be so . . . in the dark about minority attitudes and fears.

Do you people remember the OJ verdict? Do you remember the near-universal happiness accross black america that he was acquitted? Where do you think that comes from? That emotion is simply a tiny window into how black america feals about the criminal justice system in the US, including the Police. Black america is terrified, and has been terrified for years, of Police -- well before this past 12 months.

So, no, this is not an "isolated incident."

 

[msommer]

Statistically speaking blacks commit more crimes than other races, correct? Inevitably this is going to lead to profiling. I don't know how you avoid that.

That's why I just wish we could discuss excessive use of force separate from the race issue. Show me a cop harassing a minority that's not resisting arrest, running, escalating the situation, etc and I'm right there on their side with everyone else.

The topic should be non-race specific and target general abuse by some police officers. I think that would be more productive. Unfortunately, because of the prevelence of black crime, police do harrass innocent blacks more often than whites. But I think if the issue of police conduct is addressed in general terms, it will translate into everyone being treated better.

unless the "prevalence of black crime" is a myth which is propagated by the police targeting black people more

I suggest you take a late night stroll down the streets of south Chicago and test your theory. Report back.

I'd suggest that's a very poor way to indict a race as somehow inherently criminal.

No one said anything about inherently criminal. But there are endless stats which do show it is a problem beyond the test I suggested above.

"There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics"Benjamin Disraeli

Again, I would let you pick anyone of three dozen nice downtown locations you could walk your white ### around any particular night to discover just how big of 'lies' these are.

And I encourage you to do the same thing a few other places like Callao or Phnom Penh or Manila

IMHO it's about poverty and lack of opportunity, in the US compounded by institutional racism that you so fervently believe does not exist

So the statistics are not lies. Thank you.

Of course they are, because they measure the wrong thing

 

[Mjolnirs]

Scott did owe back child support — and some have speculated that's why he ran — but he also had minor traffic infractions on his record. South Carolina's Post and Courier reported that Scott had been arrested about 10 times, mostly for failure to appear for court hearings and child support. The paper also said his first arrest was in 1987 for assault and battery, but that could not immediately be confirmed by NBC News.

The child support thing is relevant in that it informs us as to why he may have ran. That's it. And that has nothing to do with the culpability of the police officer for murdering him.

I've never understood the running thing. Do they somehow think this is going to make their situation better? Even if he didn't get shot. Did he think he was going to get away. He was 50 years old and slow as hell.

Agreed. In no way was this shooting justified, but the running part gets me. Sure, you don't think you're going to get shot in the back, but don't run.

I think his family would much rather be bailing him out of jail.

 

[General Tso]

Scott did owe back child support and some have speculated that's why he ran but he also had minor traffic infractions on his record. South Carolina's Post and Courier reported that Scott had been arrested about 10 times, mostly for failure to appear for court hearings and child support. The paper also said his first arrest was in 1987 for assault and battery, but that could not immediately be confirmed by NBC News.

The child support thing is relevant in that it informs us as to why he may have ran. That's it. And that has nothing to do with the culpability of the police officer for murdering him.

I've never understood the running thing. Do they somehow think this is going to make their situation better? Even if he didn't get shot. Did he think he was going to get away. He was 50 years old and slow as hell.

Agreed. In no way was this shooting justified, but the running part gets me. Sure, you don't think you're going to get shot in the back, but don't run.I think his family would much rather be bailing him out of jail.

The common theme in all these incidents is that the perpetrator has committed a crime and has resisted arrest. Rodney King, Mike Brown, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, the kids in that video today that sparked so much debate... Law abiding people have no reason to fear the police. The cops need to do a better job, but the fact is all these tragedies could have been avoided if the people didn't resist.

 

[Leviathan]

Scott did owe back child support — and some have speculated that's why he ran — but he also had minor traffic infractions on his record. South Carolina's Post and Courier reported that Scott had been arrested about 10 times, mostly for failure to appear for court hearings and child support. The paper also said his first arrest was in 1987 for assault and battery, but that could not immediately be confirmed by NBC News.

The child support thing is relevant in that it informs us as to why he may have ran. That's it. And that has nothing to do with the culpability of the police officer for murdering him.

I've never understood the running thing. Do they somehow think this is going to make their situation better? Even if he didn't get shot. Did he think he was going to get away. He was 50 years old and slow as hell.

Agreed. In no way was this shooting justified, but the running part gets me. Sure, you don't think you're going to get shot in the back, but don't run.I think his family would much rather be bailing him out of jail.

Perhaps he ran because he feared for his life?

Sayin'...

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

The violence subsided in the 60's and 70's and there was violence. People's racism is internalized now. Lot's of racist folks go to work with minorities, tolerate them but would never think about performing any acts of violence towards them. However, they will go home and laugh at a racist joke or post racist crap on the internet.

This. Im saying this subconscious type of racism is more visible within institutions as a whole. Like Law enforcement, legal, education, financial for example. It has more to do with laws and practices that tend to unfairly harm a particular group of people as opposed to the people themselves being overtly racist. Like unfair pay for women or unfair housing practices against blacks for example.

Who the #### do you hang out with? Or do you just project this onto people?

not following.

Just seems to be too much over-generalizing. I just don't believe there are a bunch of closet racists running around.

I don't know if you are naive or in denial.

I can think of a few more alternatives beyond the two you list.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Scott did owe back child support and some have speculated that's why he ran but he also had minor traffic infractions on his record. South Carolina's Post and Courier reported that Scott had been arrested about 10 times, mostly for failure to appear for court hearings and child support. The paper also said his first arrest was in 1987 for assault and battery, but that could not immediately be confirmed by NBC News.

The child support thing is relevant in that it informs us as to why he may have ran. That's it. And that has nothing to do with the culpability of the police officer for murdering him.

I've never understood the running thing. Do they somehow think this is going to make their situation better? Even if he didn't get shot. Did he think he was going to get away. He was 50 years old and slow as hell.

Agreed. In no way was this shooting justified, but the running part gets me. Sure, you don't think you're going to get shot in the back, but don't run.I think his family would much rather be bailing him out of jail.

The common theme in all these incidents is that the perpetrator has committed a crime and has resisted arrest. Rodney King, Mike Brown, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, the kids in that video today that sparked so much debate... Law abiding people have no reason to fear the police. The cops need to do a better job, but the fact is all these tragedies could have been avoided if the people didn't resist.

LMAO

 

[MaxThreshold]

So is the conclusion that we are all racists?

 

[Leviathan]

So is the conclusion that we are all racists?

Possible? Some Puerto Ricans claim that Mexicans are too "Indian".

Some Japanese and Koreans regard each other as an inferior race.

The list goes ond and on.

Sad....

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So is the conclusion that we are all racists?

closet racists

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Scott did owe back child support and some have speculated that's why he ran but he also had minor traffic infractions on his record. South Carolina's Post and Courier reported that Scott had been arrested about 10 times, mostly for failure to appear for court hearings and child support. The paper also said his first arrest was in 1987 for assault and battery, but that could not immediately be confirmed by NBC News.

The child support thing is relevant in that it informs us as to why he may have ran. That's it. And that has nothing to do with the culpability of the police officer for murdering him.

I've never understood the running thing. Do they somehow think this is going to make their situation better? Even if he didn't get shot. Did he think he was going to get away. He was 50 years old and slow as hell.

Agreed. In no way was this shooting justified, but the running part gets me. Sure, you don't think you're going to get shot in the back, but don't run.I think his family would much rather be bailing him out of jail.

The common theme in all these incidents is that the perpetrator has committed a crime and has resisted arrest. Rodney King, Mike Brown, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, the kids in that video today that sparked so much debate... Law abiding people have no reason to fear the police. The cops need to do a better job, but the fact is all these tragedies could have been avoided if the people didn't resist.

LMAO

ya the general is .....nuts

 

[General Tso]

Scott did owe back child support and some have speculated that's why he ran but he also had minor traffic infractions on his record. South Carolina's Post and Courier reported that Scott had been arrested about 10 times, mostly for failure to appear for court hearings and child support. The paper also said his first arrest was in 1987 for assault and battery, but that could not immediately be confirmed by NBC News.

The child support thing is relevant in that it informs us as to why he may have ran. That's it. And that has nothing to do with the culpability of the police officer for murdering him.

I've never understood the running thing. Do they somehow think this is going to make their situation better? Even if he didn't get shot. Did he think he was going to get away. He was 50 years old and slow as hell.

Agreed. In no way was this shooting justified, but the running part gets me. Sure, you don't think you're going to get shot in the back, but don't run.I think his family would much rather be bailing him out of jail.

The common theme in all these incidents is that the perpetrator has committed a crime and has resisted arrest. Rodney King, Mike Brown, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, the kids in that video today that sparked so much debate... Law abiding people have no reason to fear the police. The cops need to do a better job, but the fact is all these tragedies could have been avoided if the people didn't resist.

LMAO

Care to elaborate?

 

[General Tso]

So is the conclusion that we are all racists?

That, and all the people resisting arrest are doing so because they are in fear for their life. Because, you know, all those murders by cops of people who are not resisting arrest.

 

[PatsWillWin]

On NPR yesterday they had a professor on who did a study of people choosing to use deadly force when confronted with black or white threats. The "threats" either were either legitimate (holding a gun), or harmless (holding a wallet or cell phone). On average the participants fired more often and in a shorter amount of time at the black threats rather than the white ones. This included participants who were themselves African-American (I can't remember if the participants were police officers or just regular citizens).

To me this illustrates how this is a thornier issue than mere racism. While the idea of profiling may be distasteful, unethical and possibly even illegal, it appears to be an integral part of how we, as humans, process the world around us. For whatever reason black men are perceived as more threatening, even to other blacks.

I am in no way defending what this officer did, he may be a simple redneck racist for all I know. I'm just pointing out that the issue of race in these shootings may be more complicated than white cops being racist or not. They may just be human. Solving this problem might be much more difficult than simply weeding out the "bad apples".

As an aside, they also had a black officer on who was involved in some of the sensitivity (or whatever it's called) training that always seems to follow in the wake of these shootings. He said it was a waste of time. It seems to serve more as a means to placate the community outrage than anything.

I'm trying to find a link to this but it's proving more challenging than I imagined. It was certainly thought provoking.

I don't really see how what you wrote there doesn't equal racism.

This is why people don't want to have a conversation about race in this country.

If processing danger, a primal human instinct, is racist then racism becomes nothing more than a process of self-flagellation.

Nothing in that post about what the expert said on NPR suggests that his conclusion was that racism is any kind of "primal instinct." It just says that people, black or white, respond more aggressively to black people than they do white. As I said originally, I don't see how that's not racism.

 

[Ghost Rider]

My takeaways from this:

1. That cop should spend the rest of his life in prison. What a POS.

2. It is never a good idea to run from the cops like that.

 

[Fennis]

I'm sure most of us has seen taken these by now, but maybe not. Take any of these Harvard tests, especially the one titled skin tone IAT and Race IAT

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/selectatest.html

 

[humpback]

Spoken like a white middle class guy.

I'm not saying that anything you are saying is wrong. It's right for you. But there is a whole set of people out there who's reality is different. There is a whole population of people who view police with fear. And many of those people have good jobs and don't break the low and have no reason to fear police other than the color of their skin.

It blows my mind that non-minorities can be so . . . in the dark about minority attitudes and fears.

Do you people remember the OJ verdict? Do you remember the near-universal happiness accross black america that he was acquitted? Where do you think that comes from? That emotion is simply a tiny window into how black america feals about the criminal justice system in the US, including the Police. Black america is terrified, and has been terrified for years, of Police -- well before this past 12 months.

So, no, this is not an "isolated incident."

Wat?

 

[Fennis]

saw this on reddit just now

San Bernardino Sheriff Deputies beating suspect after horse pursuit

 

[rockaction]

saw this on reddit just now

San Bernardino Sheriff Deputies beating suspect after horse pursuit

Wait, what, bud? There's a whole thread here on that one, I think. Or is this different?

 

[MaxThreshold]

saw this on reddit just now

San Bernardino Sheriff Deputies beating suspect after horse pursuit

Wait, what, bud? There's a whole thread here on that one, I think. Or is this different?

WTH is it with the rash of horse rustling lately?

 

[randall146]

So when these things happen the two loudest groups we hear from are those that are outraged and assume racism and those on the other end who get offended and knee-jerk in the other direction. You see both of those reactions in this thread.

The only way progress is going to occur is if everyone could at least acknowledge that sometimes, and maybe more than we want to admit, it's racism, and that the racism is never ok, so what can we do to about it?

I heard a riveting speaker a few weeks ago named Bryan Stevenson who talked about how in denial we our about our institutional racist past and present in this country. We are essentially in denial and would prefer to pretend everything is ok because, you know, we like brown people now. He gave a counterexample of many parts of Germany where you can't go more than a few blocks without seeing some kind of memorial to some atrocity committed during the holocaust. In part because of that memory and acknowledgement, the Germans don't have the death penalty because it's inconceivable to them that the Government would institutionally kill people again.

If we did a better job of admitting our past we'd be better able to see the institutional problems we have now.

 

[General Tso]

saw this on reddit just now

San Bernardino Sheriff Deputies beating suspect after horse pursuit

The real hero in this story is the horse, who apparently kicked one of the cops and injured him.

 

[Fennis]

I missed the other thread

 

[jabarony]

Scott did owe back child support and some have speculated that's why he ran but he also had minor traffic infractions on his record. South Carolina's Post and Courier reported that Scott had been arrested about 10 times, mostly for failure to appear for court hearings and child support. The paper also said his first arrest was in 1987 for assault and battery, but that could not immediately be confirmed by NBC News.

The child support thing is relevant in that it informs us as to why he may have ran. That's it. And that has nothing to do with the culpability of the police officer for murdering him.

I've never understood the running thing. Do they somehow think this is going to make their situation better? Even if he didn't get shot. Did he think he was going to get away. He was 50 years old and slow as hell.

Agreed. In no way was this shooting justified, but the running part gets me. Sure, you don't think you're going to get shot in the back, but don't run.I think his family would much rather be bailing him out of jail.

The common theme in all these incidents is that the perpetrator has committed a crime and has resisted arrest. Rodney King, Mike Brown, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, the kids in that video today that sparked so much debate... Law abiding people have no reason to fear the police. The cops need to do a better job, but the fact is all these tragedies could have been avoided if the people didn't resist.

LMAO

ya the general is .....nuts

Resisting arrest is different, but speaking to the running part, what should an officer do (and what are they exactly trained to do?... I don't know) when a suspect runs? Much of the sentiment seems to be to not shoot the suspect. And I'd probably agree in the vast majority of cases as there's a chance for back-up assistance, or, like in this case, no reason for a non-violent warrant to be met with shots fired. But then, does that mean any criminal can avoid arrest as long as they are faster than the cop? What if it's a 1on1 situation with a known mass-murderer, who's escaped from prison? The murderer is unarmed, and not an immediate threat to the officer, but it running away from the slower officer? What if the officer has full knowledge of this guy's past and takes him out? Justified to prevent more deaths? What if he doesn't shoot and this guy takes out 10 more people prior to being captured the next time? I know it's an extreme example and polar opposite of someone with a warrant for child-support issues. Point being, when can/should officers be able to shoot fleeing suspects? It's somewhere between those two examples, but where?

 

[Fennis]

What if the guy running has a homemade nuclear bomb strapped to his back?

 

[jabarony]

What if the guy running has a homemade nuclear bomb strapped to his back?

Crap. I thought I maxed out the example. Not even close.

 

[Wrigley]

What if the guy running has a homemade nuclear bomb strapped to his back?

I'd say shoot, see what happens.

 

[njherdfan]

I'm sure most of us has seen taken these by now, but maybe not. Take any of these Harvard tests, especially the one titled skin tone IAT and Race IAT

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/selectatest.html

I assume most people haven't taken this, but it's really enlightening for those who take it with an open mind.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Legal expert on ABC News made a few salient points.

1 - He has never seen a video of this kind or magnitude before (I agreed earlier).

2 - The DA's office won't need to cut him a deal with the video.

3 - In his opinion, the only way he might receive a lesser manslaughter verdict (which he thought would likely be included as a lesser sentence option in addition to the current murder charge), is if he gets on the stand, and explains on a frame-by-frame basis how this was some kind of heat of the moment shooting, and not a cold and calculated decision, as it appears on the video, to the satisfaction of the jury. It seems like an impossible task.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

saw this on reddit just now

San Bernardino Sheriff Deputies beating suspect after horse pursuit

And another one

 

[PatsWillWin]

If there'a a silver lining to us finding out about all of these beatings/shootings, surely it must be the fact that we're finding out about them. It makes me shudder that there are people like this who have this responsibility, but surely the continued and expanding capturing of things like this will sink in at some point and they'll realize they really have to behave themselves for their own self-interest.

 

[Sweet J]

Spoken like a white middle class guy.

I'm not saying that anything you are saying is wrong. It's right for you. But there is a whole set of people out there who's reality is different. There is a whole population of people who view police with fear. And many of those people have good jobs and don't break the low and have no reason to fear police other than the color of their skin.

It blows my mind that non-minorities can be so . . . in the dark about minority attitudes and fears.

Do you people remember the OJ verdict? Do you remember the near-universal happiness accross black america that he was acquitted? Where do you think that comes from? That emotion is simply a tiny window into how black america feals about the criminal justice system in the US, including the Police. Black america is terrified, and has been terrified for years, of Police -- well before this past 12 months.

So, no, this is not an "isolated incident."

Wat?

Black people in this country and white people in this country had very, very, very, different reactions to the OJ verdict. White people crying and black people cheering.

Those reactions, to me, are symbolic about how white people and black people in this country feel about the justice system, including police. It's easy for white folks in this country to ignore the difference or tell themselves that there isn't a problem. But the OJ verdict gave folks a very brief snapshot.

It's hard to describe if you weren't there, or old enough to notice. It was a big deal.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Spoken like a white middle class guy.

I'm not saying that anything you are saying is wrong. It's right for you. But there is a whole set of people out there who's reality is different. There is a whole population of people who view police with fear. And many of those people have good jobs and don't break the low and have no reason to fear police other than the color of their skin.

It blows my mind that non-minorities can be so . . . in the dark about minority attitudes and fears.

Do you people remember the OJ verdict? Do you remember the near-universal happiness accross black america that he was acquitted? Where do you think that comes from? That emotion is simply a tiny window into how black america feals about the criminal justice system in the US, including the Police. Black america is terrified, and has been terrified for years, of Police -- well before this past 12 months.

So, no, this is not an "isolated incident."

Wat?

Black people in this country and white people in this country had very, very, very, different reactions to the OJ verdict. White people crying and black people cheering.

Those reactions, to me, are symbolic about how white people and black people in this country feel about the justice system, including police. It's easy for white folks in this country to ignore the difference or tell themselves that there isn't a problem. But the OJ verdict gave folks a very brief snapshot.

It's hard to describe if you weren't there, or old enough to notice. It was a big deal.

I don't get it. What does cheering/crying for a murderer that beat the system tell us about how people feel about the justice system?

 

[humpback]

Spoken like a white middle class guy.

I'm not saying that anything you are saying is wrong. It's right for you. But there is a whole set of people out there who's reality is different. There is a whole population of people who view police with fear. And many of those people have good jobs and don't break the low and have no reason to fear police other than the color of their skin.

It blows my mind that non-minorities can be so . . . in the dark about minority attitudes and fears.

Do you people remember the OJ verdict? Do you remember the near-universal happiness accross black america that he was acquitted? Where do you think that comes from? That emotion is simply a tiny window into how black america feals about the criminal justice system in the US, including the Police. Black america is terrified, and has been terrified for years, of Police -- well before this past 12 months.

So, no, this is not an "isolated incident."

Wat?

Black people in this country and white people in this country had very, very, very, different reactions to the OJ verdict. White people crying and black people cheering.

Those reactions, to me, are symbolic about how white people and black people in this country feel about the justice system, including police. It's easy for white folks in this country to ignore the difference or tell themselves that there isn't a problem. But the OJ verdict gave folks a very brief snapshot.

It's hard to describe if you weren't there, or old enough to notice. It was a big deal.

I was there (and old enough), but I'm not seeing the relevance at all. Perhaps if OJ was clearly innocent, but...

 

[Hang 10]

Spoken like a white middle class guy.

I'm not saying that anything you are saying is wrong. It's right for you. But there is a whole set of people out there who's reality is different. There is a whole population of people who view police with fear. And many of those people have good jobs and don't break the low and have no reason to fear police other than the color of their skin.

It blows my mind that non-minorities can be so . . . in the dark about minority attitudes and fears.

Do you people remember the OJ verdict? Do you remember the near-universal happiness accross black america that he was acquitted? Where do you think that comes from? That emotion is simply a tiny window into how black america feals about the criminal justice system in the US, including the Police. Black america is terrified, and has been terrified for years, of Police -- well before this past 12 months.

So, no, this is not an "isolated incident."

Wat?

Black people in this country and white people in this country had very, very, very, different reactions to the OJ verdict. White people crying and black people cheering.

Those reactions, to me, are symbolic about how white people and black people in this country feel about the justice system, including police. It's easy for white folks in this country to ignore the difference or tell themselves that there isn't a problem. But the OJ verdict gave folks a very brief snapshot.

It's hard to describe if you weren't there, or old enough to notice. It was a big deal.

I don't get it. What does cheering/crying for a murderer that beat the system tell us about how people feel about the justice system?

That OJ's race is all that mattered to them?

 

[bigbottom]

I think your responses are sort of making Sweet J's point. Those weren't the perspectives of many African-Americans at the time. At that time, they saw a racist cop, allegations of planted evidence, and a glove that didn't fit, and that reinforced perceptions about the unfairness of the justice system and how an innocent man could indeed be railroaded.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Eh, I saw it as "after years of white people getting over on us by killing many of us, one of ours finally got over on them (by getting away with killing white folks)." While completely irrational on the surface, given the history of this nation, I can see why they'd think that way.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Cops acting like thugs while arresting thugs is acceptable behavior...after all it`s a war out there

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I think your responses are sort of making Sweet J's point. Those weren't the perspectives of many African-Americans at the time. At that time, they saw a racist cop, allegations of planted evidence, and a glove that didn't fit, and that reinforced perceptions about the unfairness of the justice system and how an innocent man could indeed be railroaded.

Except he wasn't railroaded. He was found not guilty. OJ is the exact opposite of the point I think Sweet J is trying to make. Or I'm totally lost with what he's trying to do.

 

[bigbottom]

I think your responses are sort of making Sweet J's point. Those weren't the perspectives of many African-Americans at the time. At that time, they saw a racist cop, allegations of planted evidence, and a glove that didn't fit, and that reinforced perceptions about the unfairness of the justice system and how an innocent man could indeed be railroaded.

Except he wasn't railroaded. He was found not guilty.

Precisely. That's why they were cheering. A black man was able to finally overcome the injustice and bias of the legal system. Of course, it took millions of dollars and a team of some of the best lawyers in the country to overcome the injustice and bias, resources that aren't available to 99% of the African-American community.

OJ is the exact opposite of the point I think Sweet J is trying to make. Or I'm totally lost with what he's trying to do.

See above.