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Another killing at the hands of the Police (17 Viewers)

timschochet said:
No. And it’s frustrating that you and others won’t see this. 
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I keep going back to when you said  ..... Of course. I’m white and I’m trying to educate you on how you should act and feel about this issue. That is absolutely correct. ...

its frustrating for you because you're truly not trying to see discrimination for what it is .... you only want to use it when it suits you

am I right ?

 
timschochet said:
Because I’m not offering the personal experience of how I’ve been treated by the police. That’s what I’m objecting to. If you want to argue with me about how blacks are treated by police with statistics and other facts and studies, well and good. But neither you nor I can offer personal stories of our own interaction with police- they’re just not relevant. 
 

Years ago I was at a picnic with a black family at Echo Park in Los Angeles. A friend of mine from my chess playing days was introducing me to his wife and kids. The police showed up and, in front of the guys family and me, handcuffed my friend and dragged him away. They had gotten a report of a robbery in the area. My friend was humiliated and had to be questioned at the police station for hours, before the cops found the right guy. 
I will never know what my friend must have felt. That was an experience that would NEVER happen to me, or any white person. It helped me to partially understand what black people go through on a daily basis, but I can never fully understand. All I can do is try to help end such treatment, and that starts by helping other white people to partially understand as well. If that seems patronizing to you I apologize. 
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And yet when I was in high school, I was misidentified and arrested.  It was cleared up in a few minutes, but to suggest crap does not happen to white people is pure bs.  

 
jon_mx said:
And yet when I was in high school, I was misidentified and arrested.  It was cleared up in a few minutes, but to suggest crap does not happen to white people is pure bs.  
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Right....This is stupid. ONLY Black people are mistakenly taken under arrest?  My god.

So let's see..the police got a description of a black man that most likely matched that of Tim's friend. And they acted on it.  Sounds like he was eventually let go.

Man..the white guilt here is palpable.  Tim has far more white guilt than anyone I have ever run across.  In any arena whatsoever.

 
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timschochet said:
Not sure how many times this needs to be repeated but: 

You’re not a minority. Your experiences with law enforcement have absolutely no bearing on how minorities are treated. None whatsoever. 
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This narrative is so tired and old. When I was a kid and drove around in my illegally tinted vehicles, blaring loud rap, dressed like Tupac and had a fresh fade I got pulled over constantly. I got my ### beat by cops, I got my hair pulled and choked on front of the HS principal. Yanked up in my front yard in front of my mother. All the city cops knew about me and my friends and would constantly go after us. 

When I wised up, dressed and acted appropriately I stopped getting harassed.  
 

 Miss me with YOUR white privilege.

 
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STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
This narrative is so tired and old. When I was a kid and drove around in my illegally tinted vehicles, blaring loud rap, dressed like Tupac and had a fresh fade I got pulled over constantly. I got my ### beat by cops, I got my hair pulled and choked on front of the HS principal. Yanked up in my front yard in front of my mother. All the city cops knew about me and my friends and would constantly go after us. 

When I wised up, dressed and acted appropriately I stopped getting harassed.  
 

 Miss me with YOUR white privilege.
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Must be nice to be able to change your wardrobe to change perceptions and bias about you.......  Some of us, well we cant change our skin color.   That is a privilege.  whether you want to acknowledge it or not. 

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Must be nice to be able to change your wardrobe to change perceptions and bias about you.......  Some of us, well we cant change our skin color.   That is a privilege.  whether you want to acknowledge it or not. 
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Right. Because they knew my skin color when I’m wearing a giant puffy coat a hat and a mask and gloves in the winter. When they pulled me out of my truck and beat the #### out of me that was because they were being nice because I was white. 

Real talk – it’s you and your people who have all the privilege in this country in 2022. Do you wanna have a real ####### conversation, let’s have it but last time I tried to do this with you you said no you couldn’t handle it. So let me know when you wanna have a real talk homie. 

 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Right. Because they knew my skin color when I’m wearing a giant puffy coat a hat and a mask and gloves in the winter. When they pulled me out of my truck and beat the #### out of me that was because they were being nice because I was white. 

Real talk – it’s you and your people who have all the privilege in this country in 2022. Do you wanna have a real ####### conversation, let’s have it but last time I tried to do this with you you said no you couldn’t handle it. So let me know when you wanna have a real talk homie. 

 
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Not with you "homie" as it wont get anywhere.  Maybe be respectful and we could have had that.  You lost that chance with the continued disrespect over numerous threads. 

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Not with you "homie" as it wont get anywhere.  Maybe be respectful and we could have had that.  You lost that chance with the continued disrespect over numerous threads. 
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Riiiiiight. I understand that text on a screen is hurtful. If you ever gain the ability to not let your emotions take over give me a holler. 

 
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Isn't a take away from Steady's anecdote that he was being targeted because he was doing typically "black" things - blaring rap music, driving with tinted windows, dressing like Tupac.   That's part of the point of what people have been saying in here about profiling and bias.   Ties into somebody else's example about being pulled over a ton because he was driving a typically "black" car, and it didn't come to him until he was being pulled over a lot.       Now combine that with the behavior changing when he changed his clothes.   Part of that sounds like chose to stop acting like a knucklehead, but part could be that he wasn't checking off those boxes anymore.      

But like the other stories like the lady driving with her poodle - we can't ignore that sometimes it is about the color of your skin and we can't change that part.  

 
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KarmaPolice said:
Isn't a take away from Steady's anecdote that he was being targeted because he was doing typically "black" things - blaring rap music, driving with tinted windows, dressing like Tupac.   That's part of the point of what people have been saying in here about profiling and bias.   Ties into somebody else's example about being pulled over a ton because he was driving a typically "black" car, and it didn't come to him until he was being pulled over.      Now combine that with the behavior changing when he changed his clothes.   Part of that sounds like chose to stop acting like a knuckle head, but part could be that he wasn't checking off those boxes anymore.      

But like the other stories like the lady driving with her poodle - we can't ignore that sometimes it is about the color of your skin and we can't change that part.  
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I wasnt doing “black” things. I was a criminal and I dressed and acted appropriately. When I stopped driving a murdered out suburban and dressed like an adult I stopped getting pulled over and getting jacked up by cops. 

The same thing would’ve happened to me if I drove a Camaro and wore jean jackets with a bunch of Metallica labels all over them. I know this because several of my business associates look like that and they had the same experiences with cops that I did. I lived in the city and they lived in the country - that was the only difference.

When I got older and started selling coke instead of weed I dressed more like an adult and drove a much more conservative car. I didn’t get pulled over or harassed when out in public. 
 

How did I learn this? Oddly enough, by returning video games. Back in the day electronics boutique and Babbages would let you return games that you played even if you didn’t like them. Unless you abused it which obviously as dumb as kids we did. So we got resourceful. We would take a video game to Toys “R” Us and tell them that the game is broken so they would give us a new one in the plastic wrapper. We would carefully remove the Toys “R” Us sticker and then take the game back to Babbages or electronics boutique. The thing is it was up to the persons discretion at the return table at Toys “R” Us. If I dress like a little kid which I was they would often tell me no. If I went in there dressed very nicely in a button-down shirt and slacks they would always tell me yes.

Is that profiling? Maybe, I guess so. Is it racist? #### no! Not everything is racist.

 
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the moops said:
I think the point is people getting pulled over who aren't criminals
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Are they dressing and acting like criminals?
 

Pretty sure most of the high profile shooting cases that birthed this thread were discussing actual criminals. 
 

 George Floyd criminal

Can’t breathe dude criminal

Dante what’s his face criminal

knife chick criminal

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Are they dressing and acting like criminals?
 

Pretty sure most of the high profile shooting cases that birthed this thread were discussing actual criminals. 
 

 George Floyd criminal

Can’t breathe dude criminal

Dante what’s his face criminal

knife chick criminal
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How TF do you dress like a criminal?  WTF

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
I wasnt doing “black” things. I was a criminal and I dressed and acted appropriately. When I stopped driving a murdered out suburban and dressed like an adult I stopped getting pulled over and getting jacked up by cops. 

The same thing would’ve happened to me if I drove a Camaro and wore jean jackets with a bunch of Metallica labels all over them. I know this because several of my business associates look like that and they had the same experiences with cops that I did. I lived in the city and they lived in the country - that was the only difference.

When I got older and started selling coke instead of weed I dressed more like an adult and drove a much more conservative car. I didn’t get pulled over or harassed when out in public. 
 

How did I learn this? Oddly enough, by returning video games. Back in the day electronics boutique and Babbages would let you return games that you played even if you didn’t like them. Unless you abused it which obviously as dumb as kids we did. So we got resourceful. We would take a video game to Toys “R” Us and tell them that the game is broken so they would give us a new one in the plastic wrapper. We would carefully remove the Toys “R” Us sticker and then take the game back to Babbages or electronics boutique. The thing is it was up to the persons discretion at the return table at Toys “R” Us. If I dress like a little kid which I was they would often tell me no. If I went in there dressed very nicely in a button-down shirt and slacks they would always tell me yes.

Is that profiling? Maybe, I guess so. Is it racist? #### no! Not everything is racist.
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I feel like are kind of saying the same thing, and in my post I specifically said bias and profiling.   I would guess there would some tiers that we are talking about to drawn the attention of law enforcement, and you provided examples of such:

1.   Acting like a criminal and doing stereotypical "black" things (rap music, tricked out car)

2.  Doing nothing wrong and doing those stereotypical things that draw attention. 

3.  Doing criminal things and not doing those stereotypical things

4.  Doing nothing wrong and not doing those things.   

What people are saying the messed up thing is that 2 and 3 are reverse of what they should be.   Your example of selling coke while dressing like an "adult" and rocking a dad car points to that.  

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
You’re kidding right? Let’s say it ain’t cargo shorts and Docksiders. (Until it is) 
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You are saying the same thing that I was, but trying to avoid saying it. 

Dress like a criminal = dressing like a gang banger (in your example you dressing like Tupac) =  dressing in a stereotypical "black" manner that would attract the bias/profiling and attention of law enforcement.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
You are saying the same thing that I was, but trying to avoid saying it. 

Dress like a criminal = dressing like a gang banger (in your example you dressing like Tupac) =  dressing in a stereotypical "black" manner that would attract the bias/profiling and attention of law enforcement.  
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It is also bigotted to assume dressing as a gang banger is a black thing.  It doesn't matter what your skin color is, how you present yourself matters whether it be a biker, hippie, punk, or thug.  If you dress that way you are going to draw attention of the police regardless of race.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
You are saying the same thing that I was, but trying to avoid saying it. 

Dress like a criminal = dressing like a gang banger (in your example you dressing like Tupac) =  dressing in a stereotypical "black" manner that would attract the bias/profiling and attention of law enforcement.  
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You keep saying dressing “black”. That’s not what I’m saying at all. 

 
PinkydaPimp said:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-response-mall-fight-prompts-outrage-investigation-treatment/story?id=82927516
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Two different officers, two different responses.  Handling a situation with the least amount of force is desirable, so the woman cop did a much better job.  Maybe that is her nature, but both these officers have different experiences and strengths, and to assume it is about race is presumptuous.  I would argue it should be a learning experience for police in general on how better to handle a situation and not so much about race. 

 
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Yeah that’s not a good look. The female officer should have handcuffed the other kid too.

TBH - neither should have been handcuffed at all. They should have just stopped the fight, put both of them on separate couches facing each other and talked it out until they shook on it. 

 
Black Privilege is actually things we can give examples of like 

There are very few examples where special treatment is given for being white

 
Cjw_55106 said:
Sentenced  to 24 months.
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Im fine with it. 

It was definitely a significant downward departure from the sentencing guidelines(8 years i believe) but i get why she made the decision.  Id have preferred 4 years personally.  Ultimately shes getting jailtime and there is accountability and she doesnt represent a threat to the public when she gets out so im fine with it. 

I do however hope that that same consideration and downward departure is given to others(blacks) in similar circumstances as well.  If i recall the black cop in Minnesota got 12 years for a lesser sentence.  odd.  i have to see why that was. 

 
Stealthycat said:
what are your thoughts on this ?

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/21/1047986308/mohammad-noor-sentenced-minneapolis-police-911-australian-caller 

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/15/1037426344/australian-woman-murder-minneapolis-police-mohamed-noor-overturned

Just curious. I thought 24 months was light too, I agree
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Kim Potter was convicted of First and Second degree manslaughter and got 20 months

Noor was convicted of Second Degree manslaughter and got the maximum. 

Kim got significantly less than Noor even when convicted of a higher charge.  I honestly dont understand. 

4-5 Years which is what Noor got is probably about right. 

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Kim Potter was convicted of First and Second degree manslaughter and got 20 months

Noor was convicted of Second Degree manslaughter and got the maximum. 

Kim got significantly less than Noor even when convicted of a higher charge.  I honestly dont understand. 

4-5 Years which is what Noor got is probably about right. 
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I mean they're different situations - one where accidentally grabbing gun vs taser during an arrest/altercation and the other was 100% intentional to pull gun and shoot totally innocent woman at close range

human life is valued nowdays at a couple of years in prison :(

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Kim Potter was convicted of First and Second degree manslaughter and got 20 months

Noor was convicted of Second Degree manslaughter and got the maximum. 

Kim got significantly less than Noor even when convicted of a higher charge.  I honestly dont understand. 

4-5 Years which is what Noor got is probably about right. 
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It's because Noor purposely fired the gun

Potter didn't purposely fire the gun.

 
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Yenrub said:
Driver held at gunpoint for having permit to carry settles with Minneapolis Park Board for 100K
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I ALWAYS alert the officer to my CCL - I thought that was the law everywhere? 

if it is in MIN and she didn't alert the officer .... then her actions of using a phone while driving, no seat belt AND hiding the fact she had a gun/could have had a gun ..... I don't think that's worth pulling a gun on her but with the assault on police and police murders I imagine they're all very very very on edge

 
Stealthycat said:
I ALWAYS alert the officer to my CCL - I thought that was the law everywhere? 

if it is in MIN and she didn't alert the officer .... then her actions of using a phone while driving, no seat belt AND hiding the fact she had a gun/could have had a gun ..... I don't think that's worth pulling a gun on her but with the assault on police and police murders I imagine they're all very very very on edge
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My GUESS is that since she wasn’t actually carrying a weapon (she has the permit but didn’t have a weapon with her) she didn’t think it was necessary to mention anything.

Also, per this site Minnesota is a notify when asked state

 
Yenrub said:
My GUESS is that since she wasn’t actually carrying a weapon (she has the permit but didn’t have a weapon with her) she didn’t think it was necessary to mention anything.

Also, per this site Minnesota is a notify when asked state
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good link - I didn't know some were "ask"

I always mention/make aware - of course, I always put both hands out the window ... I figure that little gesture is somethng to make officers feel a bit safe

 
Yenrub said:
Michigan police release video of shooting man in back of head

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/michigan-police-release-video-of-cop-shooting-black-man-in-head-after-struggle-for-taser
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so the plates didn't belong on the car, he ran, he fought with the officer, never doing anything he was asked/told to do, kept trying to get the taser and officer resorted to using his firearm

this guy could have been going to shoot up a school - the officer didn't know at the time 

I cannot stress these 3 simple things enough that needs to change

#1 always have two officers and black officers stopping black suspects and white officers stopping white. That eliminates anybody saying "racist"

#2 people STAY IN THE CAR should be the law with HAND OUT THE WINDOW - we need that law

#3 if people would just comply with what the officers ask :(  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRDCckUOsQ 

 
Yenrub said:
Michigan police release video of shooting man in back of head

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/michigan-police-release-video-of-cop-shooting-black-man-in-head-after-struggle-for-taser
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inuQELf75lo

I didn't see the video in that article.  Do you feel racism lead to this outcome?

Patrick refused to cooperate throughout the encounter.  He appeared to be much stronger than the cop.  The cop kicked him a couple times with little effect.  Patrick didn't strike back but he did grab the taser and prevented the cop from handcuffing.  I have no idea why the cop chose to shoot him in the back of the head.  Desperation and fear of a physically stronger suspect?   I think the cop deserves some prison time.  Definitely should not be a cop anymore.

 
Caveman33 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inuQELf75lo

I didn't see the video in that article.  Do you feel racism lead to this outcome?

Patrick refused to cooperate throughout the encounter.  He appeared to be much stronger than the cop.  The cop kicked him a couple times with little effect.  Patrick didn't strike back but he did grab the taser and prevented the cop from handcuffing.  I have no idea why the cop chose to shoot him in the back of the head.  Desperation and fear of a physically stronger suspect?   I think the cop deserves some prison time.  Definitely should not be a cop anymore.
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It’s possible

I DO NOT think that the actual shooting was racially motivated, the traffic stop COULD have been.  

Obviously, we don’t see everything that the driver was doing before he was pulled over but we do see him using a turn signal when he makes the right. We don’t know if he was speeding but I assume that he wasn’t because when he askes the officer what he did wrong the officer reply’s that the tags don’t match the car. We don’t know why the officer is running the tags.

 
Yenrub said:
It’s possible

I DO NOT think that the actual shooting was racially motivated, the traffic stop COULD have been.  

Obviously, we don’t see everything that the driver was doing before he was pulled over but we do see him using a turn signal when he makes the right. We don’t know if he was speeding but I assume that he wasn’t because when he askes the officer what he did wrong the officer reply’s that the tags don’t match the car. We don’t know why the officer is running the tags.
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I was more disturbed by the shot to the back of the head.  The cop was on top and could have safely retreated when he lost control of his taser.

Running the tags may have been the result of profiling.  Patrick had been arrested 3 times before in relation to stolen cars.  I can understand both sides of the profiling issue.  It's an unfair nuisance to innocent people who happen to match the profile.  On the other hand, don't crime statistics support common sense policing?  If more cops disengage and choose to be less active, the whole community will suffer from emboldened criminals and increased crime.

 
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