Another school shooting (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

But again, I really really hate discussing gun registration in this thread, because it implies that I believe it would have an impact on school shootings and it WILL NOT. And President Obama is being disingenuous by suggesting that it will.

If you believe that a gun registry will reduce gun violence, why wouldn't the reduced gun violence reduce the number of crazies that plan out mass shootings in public places? Gun violence doesn't have any role in seeding the idea?

Because it's too rare an occurrence for something like registry to have an effect on it.

 

[Mario Kart]

Get rid of all guns. Case closed.

 

[Wrigley]

Driver's test does a good job of stopping people from drunk driving.

WHAT ANOTHER AWESOME ANALOGY

I smell another thread

 

[[icon]]

Driver's test does a good job of stopping people from drunk driving.

WHAT ANOTHER AWESOME ANALOGY

I smell another thread

I have to register to play video games online!

 

[Otis]

Get rid of all guns. Case closed.

Shhhhhhhhh!!!

We can't change anything the founding fathers did!

Except slavery!

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

But again, I really really hate discussing gun registration in this thread, because it implies that I believe it would have an impact on school shootings and it WILL NOT. And President Obama is being disingenuous by suggesting that it will.

If you believe that a gun registry will reduce gun violence, why wouldn't the reduced gun violence reduce the number of crazies that plan out mass shootings in public places? Gun violence doesn't have any role in seeding the idea?

Because it's too rare an occurrence for something like registry to have an effect on it.

So if magically all other gun violence was non existent in society while there was same number of guns would the same number mass public shootings happen as now?

 

[timschochet]

But again, I really really hate discussing gun registration in this thread, because it implies that I believe it would have an impact on school shootings and it WILL NOT. And President Obama is being disingenuous by suggesting that it will.

If you believe that a gun registry will reduce gun violence, why wouldn't the reduced gun violence reduce the number of crazies that plan out mass shootings in public places? Gun violence doesn't have any role in seeding the idea?

Because it's too rare an occurrence for something like registry to have an effect on it.

So if magically all other gun violence was non existent in society while there was same number of guns would the same number mass public shootings happen as now?

No of course not. But nobody's talking about making all gun violence non-existent.

Most gun violence is crime or gang related. That is the sort of crime which law enforcement tells us would be aided by universal background checks and registry. But there is no correlation between that sort of crime and these crazy, horrific school shootings. The school shootings are still very rare, occurring in the dozens per year. That's simply awful, but it's nothing compared to the thousands of gun deaths that occur in the inner city every year. The greater the number of crimes, the more likely that laws and restrictions can have an effect on it. But when you have a rare crime like school shootings, you have to figure that no law can really have too much of an effect. Though again, I'm for it (the law) anyhow.

 

[Henry Ford]

Get rid of all guns. Case closed.

Shhhhhhhhh!!!We can't change anything the founding fathers did!

Except slavery!

And voting based on land ownership

 

[PatsWillWin]

Get rid of all guns. Case closed.

Shhhhhhhhh!!!We can't change anything the founding fathers did!

Except slavery!

And voting based on land ownership

And gender.

 

[Run It Up]

Get rid of all guns. Case closed.

Shhhhhhhhh!!!We can't change anything the founding fathers did!

Except slavery!

And voting based on land ownership

And gender.

And age.

 

[timschochet]

Get rid of all guns. Case closed.

Shhhhhhhhh!!!We can't change anything the founding fathers did!

Except slavery!

And voting based on land ownership

And gender.

And age.

You guys are making this sound pretty good.

You know, I'm an older white property-owning male. So once upon a time I could have owned slaves, made decisions for my womenfolk, owned guns, and have a significant influence on national politics.

Now all I got left from those days is the right to own guns. And everybody else gets to as well- what's the fun in that? You people have taken all my rights away!!

 

[KCitons]

Not to beat this dead horse.

Saw a map on TV today showing the 74 school shootings since Sandy Hook. One of the pins looked like it was in Omaha. I don't watch the news every day, but I'm pretty sure I would have heard about a school shooting. A quick search shows the school shooting was actually a suicide that occurred at 1:20am in the town of Algona, Iowa.

Maybe we need something like those school zone speed limit signs: 15 mph - When Children Are Present At 1 am, kids aren't present and it's not a school shooting.

 

[Chaos Commish]

74 school shootings checked by CNN, 59 of them not exactly school shootings.

 

[fantasycurse42]

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/man-brought-pistol-ore-school-protect-sister-police-article-1.1826366

Another smart rationale gun owner... After he heard about the shooting he grabbed his gun, headed over, and tried to get past the checkpoints.

Maybe he doesn't realize him and his 9mm aren't going to get accomplished what 4 dozen cops and SWAT already on the scene will

He should lose all gun carrying rights at this stage, but he won't.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

But again, I really really hate discussing gun registration in this thread, because it implies that I believe it would have an impact on school shootings and it WILL NOT. And President Obama is being disingenuous by suggesting that it will.

If you believe that a gun registry will reduce gun violence, why wouldn't the reduced gun violence reduce the number of crazies that plan out mass shootings in public places? Gun violence doesn't have any role in seeding the idea?

Because it's too rare an occurrence for something like registry to have an effect on it.

So if magically all other gun violence was non existent in society while there was same number of guns would the same number mass public shootings happen as now?

No of course not. But nobody's talking about making all gun violence non-existent.

Most gun violence is crime or gang related. That is the sort of crime which law enforcement tells us would be aided by universal background checks and registry. But there is no correlation between that sort of crime and these crazy, horrific school shootings. The school shootings are still very rare, occurring in the dozens per year. That's simply awful, but it's nothing compared to the thousands of gun deaths that occur in the inner city every year. The greater the number of crimes, the more likely that laws and restrictions can have an effect on it. But when you have a rare crime like school shootings, you have to figure that no law can really have too much of an effect. Though again, I'm for it (the law) anyhow.

So people are just born to shoot up public places and seeing gun violence reported around them (or even miles away in the big, nasty urban center) doesn't play any role in choosing a gun to help them "address the problems" they have in the world?

In other words if we have

• X number of public mass shootings with our current level of other gun violence
• nearly zero public mass shootings with a fantasy zero level of other gun violence

Would we expect that an overall reduction in "crime or gang related" still leave us with X or somewhere between 0 and X mass public shootings. Your quick counter argument would be that there has been an overall reduction in "crime or gang related" since the '70s, but I'm not sure with multiple hours of local news that did not exist back then and 24 hours news channels that the more meaningful perception is just the opposite.

So while I agree with you that there probably not a direct correlation, I think you are too quick to argue that there is no correlation at all. Too many variables involved in the past 40 years to pretend that we can isolate just the one. But I'm likely pretty much done with this for a while so unless my schedule changes you get the last word.

 

[NCCommish]

In any case, as I pointed out earlier, I don't really think it matters whether or not what was attempted in CT was a success, as NC Commish's information claims, or a failure, as Icon's information claims. It's irrelevant to the question of a national registry. That's a whole different ball of wax.

Let's be pragmatic about this though: a national registry is going to be hard to enact. The NRA is violently opposed, and I don't see it happening. As I've pointed out time and again, though, a reasonable compromise would be universal background checks for all purchases. It would achieve most of the same law enforcement goals as a national registry. A majority of gun owners are in favor of it. It would be less inexpensive and easier to accomplish. And it might have a very real impact on gun crime; at least we can hope so. Why can't we all get behind this and get it done?

I would be happy if we could get universal background checks. I really think it is just common sense.

 

[[icon]]

He should lose all gun carrying rights at this stage, but he won't.

Technically he didn't have any gun carrying rights:

The man does not have a required permit to carry a concealed firearm and was arrested and charged with unlawful possession of a firearm

He likely won't be able to get a concealed carry permit now.

 

[[icon]]

In any case, as I pointed out earlier, I don't really think it matters whether or not what was attempted in CT was a success, as NC Commish's information claims, or a failure, as Icon's information claims. It's irrelevant to the question of a national registry. That's a whole different ball of wax.

Let's be pragmatic about this though: a national registry is going to be hard to enact. The NRA is violently opposed, and I don't see it happening. As I've pointed out time and again, though, a reasonable compromise would be universal background checks for all purchases. It would achieve most of the same law enforcement goals as a national registry. A majority of gun owners are in favor of it. It would be less inexpensive and easier to accomplish. And it might have a very real impact on gun crime; at least we can hope so. Why can't we all get behind this and get it done?

I would be happy if we could get universal background checks. I really think it is just common sense.

Yep. I used to oppose them "just because" (I'm anti government involvement in daily life) but at this point that's a concession I'm more than happy to make as, I agree, it just makes sense.

 

[ATC1]

Get rid of all guns. Case closed.

Where do I sign up? When does the negotiations begin? What's the plan?

 

[[icon]]

74 school shootings checked by CNN, 59 of them not exactly school shootings.

Advertising revenue.... Gotta whore out those children's bodies to make a buck.

 

[KCitons]

He should lose all gun carrying rights at this stage, but he won't.

Technically he didn't have any gun carrying rights:

The man does not have a required permit to carry a concealed firearm and was arrested and charged with unlawful possession of a firearm

He likely won't be able to get a concealed carry permit now.

More importantly, the guy should probably undergo a psychological evaluation. It's not like when there's a tornado, and people from surrounding communities show up with water and blankets. He wasn't there to help the victims, he was there to use his shiny new toy.

 

[Doug B]

Would it be THAT difficult to sync prescription pill records or records of mental illness with the gun/ammunition purchase process?

As the laws stand now, that would be a violation of HIPAA. Again, just pointing out an impediment to your suggestion. The greater point is that a single sweeping "take care of it all" law is not likely to be what ends up helping, IMHO.

 

[[icon]]

He should lose all gun carrying rights at this stage, but he won't.

Technically he didn't have any gun carrying rights:

The man does not have a required permit to carry a concealed firearm and was arrested and charged with unlawful possession of a firearm

He likely won't be able to get a concealed carry permit now.

More importantly, the guy should probably undergo a psychological evaluation. It's not like when there's a tornado, and people from surrounding communities show up with water and blankets. He wasn't there to help the victims, he was there to use his shiny new toy.

I would agree on all counts.

 

[Doug B]

But the Columbine-type events are very different, with long-developing plans and plenty of forethought. In a sense, guns are incidental to the damage done. Where guns cannot be gotten, the weapon of choice can morph into pipe bombs, or pressure-cooker bombs, or the like.

Exactly.

I was looking into the Columbine shootings, specifically chasing down General Malaise's angle about how Harris & Klebold obtained the ammunition. I haven't yet found specific info about the ammunition itself (EDIT: I have now, see below), but the account of how they got the guns was telling (Cliff's notes: all weapons were illegally obtained, see also below)

Something else that came out of that reading: Investigators concluded that Harris & Klebold actually intended a body-count in the hundreds, but not with their guns. Pipe bombs and a pair of (thankfully failed) propane-tank bombs set in the cafeteria were meant to be the main drivers of casualties.

Infer nothing about gun right-or-wrongs here --the point is that the Columbine killers were intent upon massacre by any means they could muster up. One thing that must be logically presented when comparing "use of bombs by psychos" vs ""use of guns by psychos" is that guns do make the damage mobile -- one kid can walk around with a gun and "cover more ground" than a bomb can. Obviously a bomb may lack mobility, but it is hardly lacking in its own damage-causing capacities.

EDIT: Information about the procurement of weapons and ammunition, from David Cullen's Columbine and from the Jefferson County (CO) Sheriff's Office's online report:

The investigation revealed that a friend, Robyn Anderson, accompanied Harris and Klebold to a gun show in late 1998 since she was of legal age to buy a firearm. At the gun show, 18-year-old Anderson purchased two shotguns and one rifle for the two killers. Those same guns were later used in the Columbine killings.

Anderson denies any prior knowledge of their plans. No law, state or federal, prohibits the purchase of a long gun (rifle) from a private individual (non-licensed dealer). Because of this, Anderson could not be charged with any crime. If Anderson had purchased the guns from a federally licensed dealer, it would have been considered a "straw purchase" and considered illegal under federal law to make the purchase for Harris and Klebold.

The State of Colorado has a specific statute prohibiting anyone from providing or permitting a juvenile (under 18) to possess a handgun. Mark Manes sold his Intratec, model TEC-9, 9mm pistol to Klebold for $500. He also purchased two boxes (100 rounds) of 9mm ammunition for Eric Harris the night of April 19. Manes was charged with one count of unlawfully providing or permitting a juvenile to possess a handgun. Manes was also charged with one count of possession of a dangerous or illegal weapon because he had gone shooting with Klebold and Harris in March 1999 and had shot one of their sawed off shotguns.

Manes entered a plea of guilty to the charges and, on Nov. 12, 1999, was sent to the Colorado Department of Corrections for six years on the first charge and three years on the second charge, to be served concurrently.

 

[GoFishTN]

Get rid of all guns. Case closed.

Do you have the gun fairy's number?

 

[Spanky267]

74 school shootings checked by CNN, 59 of them not exactly school shootings.

This was what I was trying to point out earlier in the thread. Everytown did a websearch for "school" & "shooting" and basically listed all the events that came up. Every school that has JROTC has a "school shooting" happen everyday that the Rifle Team practices based on Everytown's methodology. Simply discharging a firearm on any portion of school property on any day at anytime qualified as a school shooting in the eyes of Everytown.

 

[eoMMan]

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

 

[Run It Up]

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

To my knowledge specifics haven't been released, but the police chief said they were secured in the families home and the boy was able to retrieve them.

Didn't mention where the countless rounds of ammunition were stored.

 

[Chaos Commish]

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

To my knowledge specifics haven't been released, but the police chief said they were secured in the families home and the boy was able to retrieve them.

Didn't mention where the countless rounds of ammunition were stored.

Three hundred rounds really isn't countless. I reloaded 1000 rounds of 45 acp a few nights ago. His parents had semi auto rifles with several standard 30 round mags, which is common, so having a few hundred rounds on hand would be normal.

 

[[icon]]

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

To my knowledge specifics haven't been released, but the police chief said they were secured in the families home and the boy was able to retrieve them.

Didn't mention where the countless rounds of ammunition were stored.

Three hundred rounds really isn't countless. I reloaded 1000 rounds of 45 acp a few nights ago. His parents had semi auto rifles with several standard 30 round mags, which is common, so having a few hundred rounds on hand would be normal.

Gotta love this kinda stuff. 300 rounds OMG!

I buy my 9mm FMJ target rounds by the case (1k rounds). Thats only 5-10 range sessions.

 

[eoMMan]

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

To my knowledge specifics haven't been released, but the police chief said they were secured in the families home and the boy was able to retrieve them.

Didn't mention where the countless rounds of ammunition were stored.

Three hundred rounds really isn't countless. I reloaded 1000 rounds of 45 acp a few nights ago. His parents had semi auto rifles with several standard 30 round mags, which is common, so having a few hundred rounds on hand would be normal.

Gotta love this kinda stuff. 300 rounds OMG!

I buy my 9mm FMJ target rounds by the case (1k rounds). Thats only 5-10 range sessions.

My #### is 10 inches long!!!!

 

[[icon]]

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

To my knowledge specifics haven't been released, but the police chief said they were secured in the families home and the boy was able to retrieve them.

Didn't mention where the countless rounds of ammunition were stored.

Three hundred rounds really isn't countless. I reloaded 1000 rounds of 45 acp a few nights ago. His parents had semi auto rifles with several standard 30 round mags, which is common, so having a few hundred rounds on hand would be normal.

Gotta love this kinda stuff. 300 rounds OMG!

I buy my 9mm FMJ target rounds by the case (1k rounds). Thats only 5-10 range sessions.

My #### is 10 inches long!!!!

Well that came from out of nowhere...

Congrats?

 

[eoMMan]

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

To my knowledge specifics haven't been released, but the police chief said they were secured in the families home and the boy was able to retrieve them.

Didn't mention where the countless rounds of ammunition were stored.

Three hundred rounds really isn't countless. I reloaded 1000 rounds of 45 acp a few nights ago. His parents had semi auto rifles with several standard 30 round mags, which is common, so having a few hundred rounds on hand would be normal.

Gotta love this kinda stuff. 300 rounds OMG!

I buy my 9mm FMJ target rounds by the case (1k rounds). Thats only 5-10 range sessions.

My #### is 10 inches long!!!!

Well that came from out of nowhere...

Good for you?

 

[SmoovySmoov]

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

To my knowledge specifics haven't been released, but the police chief said they were secured in the families home and the boy was able to retrieve them.

Didn't mention where the countless rounds of ammunition were stored.

Three hundred rounds really isn't countless. I reloaded 1000 rounds of 45 acp a few nights ago. His parents had semi auto rifles with several standard 30 round mags, which is common, so having a few hundred rounds on hand would be normal.

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

To my knowledge specifics haven't been released, but the police chief said they were secured in the families home and the boy was able to retrieve them.

Didn't mention where the countless rounds of ammunition were stored.

Three hundred rounds really isn't countless. I reloaded 1000 rounds of 45 acp a few nights ago. His parents had semi auto rifles with several standard 30 round mags, which is common, so having a few hundred rounds on hand would be normal.

Gotta love this kinda stuff. 300 rounds OMG!

I buy my 9mm FMJ target rounds by the case (1k rounds). Thats only 5-10 range sessions.

Jesus, you guys are cool. I want to be just like you when I grow up. I figure all I need is a penis reduction and a lobotomy.

 

[[icon]]

I figure all I need is a penis reduction and a lobotomy.

My #### is 10 inches long!!!!

I'm realizing that there is another epidemic in our midst.... a preoccupation with male genitalia by some posters in this thread.

Time for another thread, perhaps?

 

[SmoovySmoov]

I figure all I need is a penis reduction and a lobotomy.

My #### is 10 inches long!!!!

I'm realizing that there is another epidemic in our midst.... a preoccupation with male genitalia by some posters in this thread.

Time for another thread, perhaps?

Oh, you're not fooling anyone..........what with your constant posts about your Jeep or the millions of rounds that you shoot with your big gun. One incher. Tops.

 

[Run It Up]

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

To my knowledge specifics haven't been released, but the police chief said they were secured in the families home and the boy was able to retrieve them.

Didn't mention where the countless rounds of ammunition were stored.

Three hundred rounds really isn't countless. I reloaded 1000 rounds of 45 acp a few nights ago. His parents had semi auto rifles with several standard 30 round mags, which is common, so having a few hundred rounds on hand would be normal.

Gotta love this kinda stuff. 300 rounds OMG!

I buy my 9mm FMJ target rounds by the case (1k rounds). Thats only 5-10 range sessions.

I used to shoot for fun, I'm aware how much 300 rounds is. I'm also aware of how ####### ridiculous it is to own 10 magazines for the same weapon.

 

[Chaos Commish]

How did the Oregon kid get the guns?

To my knowledge specifics haven't been released, but the police chief said they were secured in the families home and the boy was able to retrieve them.

Didn't mention where the countless rounds of ammunition were stored.

Three hundred rounds really isn't countless. I reloaded 1000 rounds of 45 acp a few nights ago. His parents had semi auto rifles with several standard 30 round mags, which is common, so having a few hundred rounds on hand would be normal.

Gotta love this kinda stuff. 300 rounds OMG!

I buy my 9mm FMJ target rounds by the case (1k rounds). Thats only 5-10 range sessions.

I try to stay out of this conversation because the two cultures are so clueless to each other that it devolves into nonsense. I just tried to be informative and you come on with a big OMG and someone else starts talking about penis size. I appreciate your efforts to explain reality, and oddly, tim's too. He is getting it.

Fwiw, the 1000 rounds I reloaded were also low powered target rounds and I split them with a cop who wanted to try different loads. So he bought a thousand bullets and cases, I provided primers and powder and we hung out in the garage for a few hours. It's not cool. It's part of a culture they don't understand. I understand that about them and should have never posted. I expect this conversation to be go childish but regret contributing.

I share Run It Ups concern. I was taught to separate ammo from firearms and keep both locked with separate combos or keys. No one has access but me. Period. So how this kid armed himself in a household the cops and media are calling secure is a mystery. Obviously cops and media are wrong. Just like both defend the dead private citizen in Vegas as concerned and heroic. No, he was a fool.

 

[Run It Up]

I share Run It Ups concern. I was taught to separate ammo from firearms and keep both locked with separate combos or keys. No one has access but me. Period. So how this kid armed himself in a household the cops and media are calling secure is a mystery. Obviously cops and media are wrong.

Or, the current measures people take in regards to gun safety and education (including regulation) are ridiculously lax and partially to blame for all gun violence.

 

[timschochet]

Icon, you could explain your point about ammunition without laughing at those who don't own guns. There is a tendency among gun owners to act superior and rather arrogant toward those of us who aren't part of the culture, and it's contributing to the lack of communication. Next time, why not just educate without being snarky? I for one am glad to learn this stuff.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I share Run It Ups concern. I was taught to separate ammo from firearms and keep both locked with separate combos or keys. No one has access but me. Period. So how this kid armed himself in a household the cops and media are calling secure is a mystery. Obviously cops and media are wrong.

Or, the current measures people take in regards to gun safety and education (including regulation) are ridiculously lax and partially to blame for all gun violence.

Definitely.

 

[Doug B]

I share Run It Ups concern. I was taught to separate ammo from firearms and keep both locked with separate combos or keys. No one has access but me. Period. So how this kid armed himself in a household the cops and media are calling secure is a mystery.

Definitely the best practice for household firearms.

Adam Lanza (the Sandy Hook killer) had raided his mother's gun safe, where weapons and ammunition were stored together. Even after this clean-out, police later found 1,400 rounds still sitting in the gun safe.

 

[[icon]]

Icon, you could explain your point about ammunition without laughing at those who don't own guns. There is a tendency among gun owners to act superior and rather arrogant toward those of us who aren't part of the culture, and it's contributing to the lack of communication. Next time, why not just educate without being snarky? I for one am glad to learn this stuff.

The reason I personally act arrogant is the people who are making these ignorant statements come in with haughty attitudes. Come in and speak intelligently and respectfully, you get the same in return. Come in swinging your purse around all willy nilly and you're gonna get your balls busted.

 

[[icon]]

I'm also aware of how ####### ridiculous it is to own 10 magazines for the same weapon.

WHy is that? What if one rotates through to mitigate spring wear? What if one has various capacity mags for various uses ( I have 3 mag sizes for my Glock 26 Carry pistol). What if one just prefers to not have to screw with loading rounds into magazines at the range and just wants to go shoot for an afternoon.

Why on earth, in this free country, are we getting bent over shape about how many magazines someone has for their firearm? Is this really the new thing to hand-wring over?

 

[[icon]]

One incher. Tops.

So strange to be so fixated on another man's penis.

Different strokes.

 

[[icon]]

Even after this clean-out, police later found 1,400 rounds still sitting in the gun safe.

To be clear.. Ammo stockpiling is not about preparing for the end of days (for most folks).

It's mostly about buying on the dips in price to cost average down. Shooting is not cheap. A round of .223 or 5.56 ammo (AR-15) ranges from 35-80 cents per round. Each 30 round magazine can cost $9-25 to shoot. Spending a day at the range can cost $100-200 in ammo alone.

Then factor in the media whipping gun-grabbers into a frenzy and prices can skyrocket for months on end (or render certain calibers next to impossible to find). During the 9mm panic last year, it was impossible to find and rounds went from 25-35c /round to .75-1.00/round. I was able to purchase 5000 rounds at .35. Sold 4k of it at a gun show (for ####s and giggles) and made a grand in about 2 hours while getting a free case for myself to shoot. I had local gun shops coming buy trying to buy me out before the show even opened.

Like any other "Commodity".... being smart with your purchasing/inventory can substantially cut costs in this hobby.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

One incher. Tops.

So strange to be so fixated on another man's penis.

Different strokes.

I just call em like I see em. Also, thanks for not disputing what is blatantly obvious.

 

[Doug B]

Even after this clean-out, police later found 1,400 rounds still sitting in the gun safe.

To be clear.. Ammo stockpiling is not about preparing for the end of days (for most folks).

Agreed. Ms. Lanza, counter to gender stereotypes about the hobby, was indeed a recreational shooter.

 

[MCguidance]

Just seeing this thread really makes my stomach drop. As someone who drives past the school quite often, that feeling will never go away.

 

[17seconds]

Icon, you could explain your point about ammunition without laughing at those who don't own guns. There is a tendency among gun owners to act superior and rather arrogant toward those of us who aren't part of the culture, and it's contributing to the lack of communication. Next time, why not just educate without being snarky? I for one am glad to learn this stuff.

The reason I personally act arrogant is the people who are making these ignorant statements come in with haughty attitudes. Come in and speak intelligently and respectfully, you get the same in return. Come in swinging your purse around all willy nilly and you're gonna get your balls busted.

All of a sudden you're Peens