Anti-Tanking/Roster Submission Rule (1 Viewer)

[Pictus Cat]

Anti-tanking/Valid Roster Submission rules/strategies posters in this thread have come up with (Paraphrased

Total points to determine playoff spots - abrecher/Ron_Mexico

Auction league eliminates tanking for picks - inca911

Total points up to Week 10 determines following years draft order. - Johnny U

Weekly payouts and fines for high and low scores, generates prize for Consolation Bowl- jabarony

Draft lottery teams that do not make the playoffs. Worst team get six ping-pong balls and the best non-playoff team gets 1. - jabrony

Home Field Advantage, highest seeded team wins ties - jabrony

Track logins for inactive owners - th3f00l

Head 2 Head systems adapted to:

1. 1/3rds 2 wins for top 3rd, 1 for middle 3rd, 0 for bottom 3rd - Stevegamer

2. up to 2 wins or losses per week - 1 for the H2H matchup, and another for scoring in the top half or bottom half that week - Jersey35

3. # of wins equals # of owners you have a higher score than in a given week - Pictus Cat

Have owners that can submit their best weekly lineups and enjoy the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat based on their evaluation the players and league scoring. - Pictus Cat

Consolation Bowl

Have a consolation bowl for non playoff teams. - Simsarge/Refbuz

Consolation teams get to pick their opponent's team from his roster. - Ozymandias

Award the #1 position as an additional pick to the TB winner - not just award the #1 pick, because the team that wins it, might not even have their first round pick anymore, if draft picks are traded in you league. - Jersey35

Consolation teams play Total Points during playoff weeks for prize ($ and/or Pick order) - Pictus Cat

Penalty Implementation

If a team starts a player that is not playing and the team has other options then punish the team. - Da Guru

Inactive owners removed and teams managed to limit disruption and prepare for new owner - Jersey35

Players injured during game excepted from penalty. - Lash/Bernie Digs and The Man that Met Andy Griffith

GTD (Game Time Decision) excepted from penalty. - Stevegamer

Pictus Cat's Tanking Rule (Work in Progress)

1. Any team that starts a player that gets a 0 for their score because the player did not play during the regular fantasy season,

will be penalized, per player infraction, one win(if they lose that game) and 200 points (about a high game of the season for a good team,)

for draft pick order consideration the following year. ESPN will be used to determine if a player played, for example Todd Heap http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=2579

(Wins/Losses/Points don't change for current year, just affects draft picks next year)

2. If a team seems to tank to eliminate another opponent from getting in the playoffs, a league vote can be called to penalize the owner. Any owner can ask commish for vote and stay anonymous. Owner and Commish will plead each side of the case. 7 of 12 votes required for the penalty of tanking owner will split any winnings with injured owner and lose their first regular season draft pick. (this is extremely unlikely to happen unless it is really obvious.)

A seperate vote for

Starting Bye week players

(Some in my league are calling this strategy to preserve their team through the bye weeks, but I don't see it. Seems like they give up total points and possible wins to the lucky owner to play them.)

An exception was noted by Stevegamer - Sometimes, starting a guy on a bye makes sense to lock in a zero: you have a QB/PK/whatever going on MNF, and you are up by a very slim margin. The league has negative points possible for that spot, and you need the win. You might switch to a bye week player to insure the win. It's definitely not tanking, and is acceptable strategy to me.

GTD (Game Time Decision) acceptability.

1. No exception, if you can't find out just before a game, find another option or take your chances,

or

2. GTD exception, Implentation: If you have a player that didn't pan out due to a game time decision, post it to the league by Tues 12:00.

Above from post 11

Original Post (below

Our draft pick order is based on reverse order of finish the previous year. Lowest gets first choice of pick and so on. Keeper and redrafts.

The Rule:

1. Any team that starts a player that gets a 0 or less for their score during the regular,

will be penalized, per player 0 or less, one win(if they lose that game) and 200 points (about a high game of the season for a good team,)

for draft pick order the following year.

(Wins/Losses/Points don't change for current year, just affects draft picks next year)

2. If a team seems to circumvent the rule, a league vote can be called to penalize the owner. Any owner can ask commish for vote and stay anonymous. 7 of 12 votes required for penalty.

I understand players get 0 or less sometimes, it happens to the best of us.

In the long run, it should balance out. I think it may be a fun challenge.

My purpose is to have an clear enforceable rule. A rule that is easily defined before an infraction.

Not really looking for 'when is tanking ok',

but if your league doesn't want it,

opinions on how to make a clear rule that prevents owners from 'playing games to do it anyway'

TIA for your opinions

If too harsh, any suggestions?

 

[Lash]

so if a rebuilding team started ADP and he banged his knee on the first play for zero yards, and Minny benched him in favor of Chester Taylor for the remaineder of the game to play it safe... and get a zero ... then i would be punished and miss out on McFadden for something beyond my control?

too harsh

use possible points for draft picks IMO

 

[Lash]

also, i would hate to start Steve Smith or Lee Evans and be on pins and needles just HOPING that the scrap heap QB could find them for at least one pass so i wouldnt be penalized

 

[Bernie Digs]

The risk of injuries make this rule ridiculous. Imagine having your starting Qb go down on the first play and you losing that weeks game because of it as well as another win removed from your record.

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

I think it would be "fun" to see one of my players get injured in the first quarter and know that as a result, my future first rounder is radically diminished in value.

 

[stevegamer]

First off, it's a horrible rule. Injuries happen in football. You should NOT be looking for ways to increase the luck factor in a game. And while it only affect draft pick order, the rule screams "joke league" as written.

If you want to fix it you MUST address the following:

1. No negative points in your league. You cannot deduct for missed FG, fumbles, interceptions, etc. Otherwise a player can get zero while playing - and get a penalty for actually playing ineffectively.

2. Injury exception. If the player is on the active roster for the game and gets no points, no penalty for the owner.

3. Some kind of game-time decisions exception.

 

[simsarge]

Rather than an anti tanking rule our league has a Non winners playoff for teams that didn't make the Super Bowl Playoffs. The winner of this losers bracket wins X $. X depends on league fees and the $ set aside for the Super bowl teams. Usually comes out to about fifty bucks or so. Keeps owners active down the stretch and gives everyone something to shoot for come "playoff" time. Rather than the teams not in the pennant race tanking or just going away all together.

 

[JohnnyU]

The best tanking rule I've seen is to have the draft positions 1-6 set after week 10 total points standings. Most teams are still in it at week 10, thus reducing the chances of tanking. Have positions 7-12 determined by the playoffs. In the event someone from slots 1-6 makes the playoffs, they would then fall into the 7-12 slots and the teams that didn't make the playoffs that were previously slotted in 7-12 would be re-slotted into 1-6 based upon total points.

 

[Refbuz]

Don't like that rule, not even a little bit. Why not have a Toilet Bowl Playoff. You want the #1 Pick next year, you gotta win it..

 

[th3f00l]

This is a rule that needs to be against not changing your lineup with an injured player. I started schaub in week 8 with hasselbeck on a bye. 77 yards and 2 interceptions before he left the game with an injury. had i started him the next week, well, it would've meant i was tanking my schedule. I actually lost my playoff position by 12 points because a guy tied me for win playing against someone who put in Donovan McNabb, that is where it is a problem. he scored 0 for last week and this week. The only time you really need to worry about tanking is when playoffs are being decided. This guy's loss cost me the playoffs, but he doesn't care. all he needed was 16 points to beat the other guy, had he been playing competitively he may have won and secured my playoff spot. The rule should deal with not changing your lineup, or being inactive (as a commish you shoulde be able to track log-ins). but that is a discussion that will occur every year. people tank their games and commit collusion at the end of the season, only the latter is slightly preventable. How about only playing FF with friends. As of next year i will only be in leagues with ppl I know or have been in a league with before. Then i can tell them straight up about tanking their season.

 

[Pictus Cat]

Thank you all for your replies.

Lash,

injured players need to be an exception...as well as players that play.

Thank you.

You too, Bernie Digs and The Man that Met Andy Griffith.

No penalty for players that play. *

Stevegamer,

The above addresses the first two, I think.

Game Time exception might depend on the league wishes. Could go either way.

1. No exception, if you can't find out just before a game, find another option or take your chances, or

2. GTD exception, puts burdon on commish or other league members to know which players are GTD. Might be hard to verify as time passes.

Thank you.

League vote on it Game Time Decision players

and

Time limit on penalty. Let commish know by end of Monday midnight or something.

Simsarge,

We have a consolation bracket for middle four and last four play for 1st pick.

We still have a problem with

1. tanking to manipulate teams making playoff,

2. owners starting players on byes because they don't want to drop anyone even though we have a bench of six

3. owners starting players that will not play because they set their line ups before Fri night

The consolation bracket and first pick playoffs are excellent ideas.

Thank you.

You too Refbuz.

Johnny U,

I like the week 10 points determining draft pick order for following year..

It gets it out of the way before people would tank for a better draft pick.

I'm just not sure it would stop the behavior I'm seeing above.

Thank you. PS: I like a lot of what you bring to the board.

This is a rule that needs to be against not changing your lineup with an injured player. I started schaub in week 8 with hasselbeck on a bye. 77 yards and 2 interceptions before he left the game with an injury. had i started him the next week, well, it would've meant i was tanking my schedule. I actually lost my playoff position by 12 points because a guy tied me for win playing against someone who put in Donovan McNabb, that is where it is a problem. he scored 0 for last week and this week. The only time you really need to worry about tanking is when playoffs are being decided. This guy's loss cost me the playoffs, but he doesn't care. all he needed was 16 points to beat the other guy, had he been playing competitively he may have won and secured my playoff spot. The rule should deal with not changing your lineup, or being inactive (as a commish you shoulde be able to track log-ins). but that is a discussion that will occur every year. people tank their games and commit collusion at the end of the season, only the latter is slightly preventable. How about only playing FF with friends. As of next year i will only be in leagues with ppl I know or have been in a league with before. Then i can tell them straight up about tanking their season.

th3f00l,You hit some good points.

Apathetic owners costing people playoffs.

Inactive owners - different levels, damage done, healing damaged owners, expectations of owners

playing with friends - Can be harder to risk friendships over stuff like this, clear objective standard really helps

Thank you all again.

Note: My league doesn't like voting on or against anything. Trades are expected to always go through. They are not fond of creating lots of rules either. Unfortunately, I am forced to address certain behaviors and owners who can't just put their best lineup every week and enjoy the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat based on their evaluation the players and league scoring.

Perhaps proposing the rule would cover the issues:

1. Any team that starts a player that gets a 0 for their score because the player did not play during the regular fantasy season,

will be penalized, per player infraction, one win(if they lose that game) and 200 points (about a high game of the season for a good team,)

for draft pick order consideration the following year. ESPN will be used to determine if a player played, for example Todd Heap http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=2579

(Wins/Losses/Points don't change for current year, just affects draft picks next year)

2. If a team seems to tank to eliminate another opponent from getting in the playoffs, a league vote can be called to penalize the owner. Any owner can ask commish for vote and stay anonymous. Owner and Commish will plead each side of the case. 7 of 12 votes required for the penalty of tanking owner will split any winnings with injured owner and lose their first regular season draft pick. (this is extremely unlikely to happen unless it is really obvious.)

A seperate vote for

Starting Bye week players

(Some in my league are calling this strategy to preserve their team through the bye weeks, but I don't see it. Seems like they give up total points and possible wins to the lucky owner to play them.)

GTD (Game Time Decision) acceptability.

1. No exception, if you can't find out just before a game, find another option or take your chances,

or

2. GTD exception, Implentation: If you have a player that didn't pan out due to a game time decision, post it to the league by Tues 12:00.

 

[AB in DC]

This kind of thread is the perfect example of why you should determine some (most) playoff spots by Total Points. That way, if you don't make the playoffs, you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[Pictus Cat]

This kind of thread is the perfect example of why you should determine some (most) playoff spots by Total Points. That way, if you don't make the playoffs, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Tempting. An excellent solution. I think ESPN's format would support it too. Could be used as a"maybe we need to go to total points for playoff seed if just putting in your best line-up is too difficult for you" suggestion.H2H seems more fun and encoraging to teams with low expectations for themselves.We assign divisions each year by advancing the two top owners and right-sizing two bottom owners based on regular season record like a mini-ladder.Thank you abrecher.

 

[Jersey35]

The teams in my league basically can get up to two wins or losses each week - one for the head-to-head matchup, and another for scoring in the top half or bottom half of the league that week. Playoffs are determined by head-to-head, then total points. This format has worked quite well, consistently resulting in the best teams making the playoffs - not just the luckiest.

In addition, historically, we've had the bottom 4 teams compete in a ToiletBowl playoff, with the winner gaining the #1 pick. This has worked well in preventing "tanking", however, because our league is VERY active in trading (including picks), we've now got a situation where 3 of our likely ToiletBowl candidates no longer even OWN their #1 draft picks for next season - so they essentially STILL have nothing to play for. We'll be switching this system in the offseason to award an ADDITIONAL #1 pick to the TB winner - this should resolve that.

Aside from that, we haven't had too much trouble with tanking - but we don't have a rule to actually prevent it - gonna hafta look into that.

 

[Pictus Cat]

The teams in my league basically can get up to two wins or losses each week - one for the head-to-head matchup, and another for scoring in the top half or bottom half of the league that week. Playoffs are determined by head-to-head, then total points. This format has worked quite well, consistently resulting in the best teams making the playoffs - not just the luckiest.In addition, historically, we've had the bottom 4 teams compete in a ToiletBowl playoff, with the winner gaining the #1 pick. This has worked well in preventing "tanking", however, because our league is VERY active in trading (including picks), we've now got a situation where 3 of our likely ToiletBowl candidates no longer even OWN their #1 draft picks for next season - so they essentially STILL have nothing to play for. We'll be switching this system in the offseason to award an ADDITIONAL #1 pick to the TB winner - this should resolve that.Aside from that, we haven't had too much trouble with tanking - but we don't have a rule to actually prevent it - gonna hafta look into that.

If you don't have a tanking problem, you have a great group of guys. That is lucky and special. I don't know if I have that in six leagues.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

This kind of thread is the perfect example of why you should determine some (most) playoff spots by Total Points. That way, if you don't make the playoffs, you have no one to blame but yourself.

bingo

 

[inca911]

Or....change to an auction format where order doesn't matter.

 

[Jersey35]

The teams in my league basically can get up to two wins or losses each week - one for the head-to-head matchup, and another for scoring in the top half or bottom half of the league that week. Playoffs are determined by head-to-head, then total points. This format has worked quite well, consistently resulting in the best teams making the playoffs - not just the luckiest.In addition, historically, we've had the bottom 4 teams compete in a ToiletBowl playoff, with the winner gaining the #1 pick. This has worked well in preventing "tanking", however, because our league is VERY active in trading (including picks), we've now got a situation where 3 of our likely ToiletBowl candidates no longer even OWN their #1 draft picks for next season - so they essentially STILL have nothing to play for. We'll be switching this system in the offseason to award an ADDITIONAL #1 pick to the TB winner - this should resolve that.Aside from that, we haven't had too much trouble with tanking - but we don't have a rule to actually prevent it - gonna hafta look into that.

If you don't have a tanking problem, you have a great group of guys. That is lucky and special. I don't know if I have that in six leagues.

Now that I think of it, I think I might know why - we're a dynasty league, and once upon a time we let a new guy come in and take over a team - he lost his first 6 games and proceeded to tank. I responded immediately and learned he was basically no longer interested. So, I removed him from the league and took over his basic team management for the rest of the year and proceeded to win the ToiletBowl with that team providing the next owner with the (deserved) #1 pick. The new owner won the Superbowl the very next season. Long story short, I think people have a lot invested in their teams in a dynasty, and a) want a shot at the best picks, and b) are perhaps nervous about having their dynasty team taken away - particularly when they've seen what active management can do for even what appear to be the worst teams.That said, this is not a thread about my league, and I'm rambling. The reason I posted above was not to brag about having great people, but more as an additional suggestion about the ToiletBowl playoff scenario that someone else mentioned earlier - based on my experience, if your league allows trades of draft picks, then be certain to award the #1 position as an additional pick to the TB winner - not just award the #1 pick, because the team that wins it, might not even have their first round pick anymore.Good luck!!

 

[stevegamer]

The teams in my league basically can get up to two wins or losses each week - one for the head-to-head matchup, and another for scoring in the top half or bottom half of the league that week. Playoffs are determined by head-to-head, then total points. This format has worked quite well, consistently resulting in the best teams making the playoffs - not just the luckiest.In addition, historically, we've had the bottom 4 teams compete in a ToiletBowl playoff, with the winner gaining the #1 pick. This has worked well in preventing "tanking", however, because our league is VERY active in trading (including picks), we've now got a situation where 3 of our likely ToiletBowl candidates no longer even OWN their #1 draft picks for next season - so they essentially STILL have nothing to play for. We'll be switching this system in the offseason to award an ADDITIONAL #1 pick to the TB winner - this should resolve that.Aside from that, we haven't had too much trouble with tanking - but we don't have a rule to actually prevent it - gonna hafta look into that.

We have something similar, but it's 2 points for a win, 1 for a tie, 0 for a loss, and scoring goes by top/middle/bottom thirds: 2,1,0.It makes how much you score EACH week more important.Additionally, I think if your bench was deeper than 6 players, you'd vastly decrease the strategy of starting players on byes. Sometimes, starting a guy on a bye makes sense to lock in a zero: you have a QB/PK/whatever going on MNF, and you are up by a very slim margin. Thelague has negative points possible for that spot, and you need the win. You might switch to a bye week player to insure the win. It's definitely not tanking, and is acceptable strategy to me.

 

[jabarony]

Here's what we do - works pretty well, we have never had any major issues (or minor as far as I can remember):

1. Have weekly high get $. - It's a big money league so $50/week goes to the weekly high. It doesn't make a huge dent in the total pool, and teams out of it can still make $50 per week.

2. Have weekly low pays $ - weekly low pays $10 towards the toilet bowl pot (max 3 payments per year). Not a huge hit, but...

2b. Have a toilet bowl. Top 2 of the bottom 6 get a bye. Winner gets weekly low monies. (~$100-$130)

3. Have a draft lottery from the 6 teams that do not make the playoffs. Worst team get six ping-pong balls (playing cards) and the best non-playoff team gets 1.

4. We have ties in our league during the regular season, so in the playoffs we use "home field advantage". This is where the higher seeded team gets an extra half point (wins in case of a tie). This helps a bit in losing on purpose for playoff positioning.

5. Berate anyone who tries anything scummy, then proceed to key said person's car.

 

[Ozymandias]

We have a very simple rule to prevent tanking. The four teams in the running for the toilet bowl get to pick their opponent's team from his roster.

That's it.

 

[Da Guru]

If a team starts a player that is not playing and the team has other options then punish the team.

 

[Pictus Cat]

Thank you all for these suggestions.

I will try to compile them at the top of the thread to help others on this topic.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

If you want a 100 percent, fool-proof way to eliminate tanking...stop rewarding teams with better draft slots for performing poorly. The better you finish, the better your draft slot. It's unorthodox, but nobody tanks-- ever. You only hurt yourself if you lose.

 

[craigboy]

Or....change to an auction format where order doesn't matter.

Auctions are much more fair, they are more fun and they take more skill.With your big rule to punish teams for starting a guy who scores 0 you are not going to prevent tanking. Any system that rewards teams for finishing with the worst record is encouraging tanking regardless of what rule you put into place.All you are doing is rewarding the owner who can start the most players who will score 1.Terrible rule If you insist on having a draft, then do what a number of people in this tread have suggested; have a toilet bowl playoff with the winning team getting the #1 pick.

 

[Pictus Cat]

If you want a 100 percent, fool-proof way to eliminate tanking...stop rewarding teams with better draft slots for performing poorly. The better you finish, the better your draft slot. It's unorthodox, but nobody tanks-- ever. You only hurt yourself if you lose.

We just had a guy tank week 13 to eliminate another owner from getting into the playoffs. This is the most critical type of tanking I want to prevent/strongly discourage.The elimanated owners rostereyton ManningAddaiParkerLJBurressColesHarrisonHolmesWhiteWinslowStrong IDPsThe tanking owner left one IDP slot open and started DB Chris Hope last week, which walks the line of our current anti-tanking rule. His whole team underperformed so badly that I don't think it would make a difference if he filled those slots, but he was favored to win that week. I am trying to get a rule to nip tanking in the bud before it would make a difference.

 

[Pictus Cat]

Or....change to an auction format where order doesn't matter.

Auctions are much more fair, they are more fun and they take more skill.

With your big rule to punish teams for starting a guy who scores 0 you are not going to prevent tanking. Any system that rewards teams for finishing with the worst record is encouraging tanking regardless of what rule you put into place.

All you are doing is rewarding the owner who can start the most players who will score 1. My work in progress Rule 2 is trying to address this. I see the loophole though. Teams may argue they are just trying to get a better draft pick. I'll make an adjustment. Rule # 3. Thanks.

2. If a team seems to tank to eliminate another opponent from getting in the playoffs, a league vote can be called to penalize the owner. Any owner can ask commish for vote and stay anonymous. Owner and Commish will plead each side of the case. 7 of 12 votes required for the penalty of tanking owner will split any winnings with injured owner and lose their first regular season draft pick. (this is extremely unlikely to happen unless it is really obvious.)

3. If 2 occurs without playoff implications, owner will get a win for the week and 200 points for draft order purposes. After vote for presence of tanking, commish will decide if their were playoff implications.

Terrible rule

If you insist on having a draft, then do what a number of people in this tread have suggested; have a toilet bowl playoff with the winning team getting the #1 pick.

We have a Consolation Bowl for the middle four for Prizes.We have a Cellar Cup for the bottom four for the #1 draft pick slot. Most Points for weeks 15 & 16 wins.

Auction would be a radical change to an existing keeper league, which the owners have asked me not to do.

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[Tick]

I wouldn't play in a league with that rule.

I don't tank, but I'd get hit by that rule as written way too often. It's bad enough when a guy puts up a zero for you, there's no need for further punishment.

My suggestion is to have a commish who has everyone's respect. He'll rule on a tanking team and others will abide by the ruling out of respect.

 

[JohnnyU]

If you want a 100 percent, fool-proof way to eliminate tanking...stop rewarding teams with better draft slots for performing poorly. The better you finish, the better your draft slot. It's unorthodox, but nobody tanks-- ever. You only hurt yourself if you lose.

That's a bad idea. In dynasty leagues, the life blood for it's survival is the draft, and to not reward bad teams with high picks is league suicide. Under your proposal the weak get weaker and the strong get stronger.

 

[Pictus Cat]

I wouldn't play in a league with that rule.I don't tank, but I'd get hit by that rule as written way too often. It's bad enough when a guy puts up a zero for you, there's no need for further punishment.My suggestion is to have a commish who has everyone's respect. He'll rule on a tanking team and others will abide by the ruling out of respect.

I don't know if I have respect, but thick skin, decisiveness, research effort and a good intentions.