Anybody Drinking The Michael Vick Kool Aid ? (1 Viewer)

[RalphMouth]

Looking at last season once Philly got their offensive line situated he played much better.

He had a real strong December.

Vick alone could either take your fantasy team on his back into the playoffs or he could derail you.

Personally I love his upside if available 5th round or later.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Not feeling Michael Vick this year. The Oline is banged up and there are a lot of other QB's that are better value later than where he's typically going. In the 5th round, there's better value at other spots and still wait on a quality starter. Pass.

 

[Ray_T]

The O-line has been poor in philly for some time.

The only thing that has given Philly a chance has been Vicks running ability cuz the line sure cant protect him.

Of course the coaches dont want Vick running too much (due to risk of injury), so there is a conflict of interest here. Vick either has to run, or hes gonna get sacked an extra 10 or 12 times this year.

If he does run, I can see him being fantasy relevant as Run yards for QB are usually worth double that of pass yards and this will also slow down the pass rush somewhat as teams make an effort to contain him. If he listens to the coaches, stays in the pocket, and does not run...... It can be a long season if you own a team with him as your QB.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I'm buying Vick this year. Stayed away last year at his inflated price, but I think the 4th or 5th round is a pretty good place to gamble on a guy that was #1 overall in PPG in 2010. He seems more likely than most to miss some time, so I might need to grab a backup a bit earlier, but I'm pretty confident he'll outproduce the QBs he's being drafted around on a PPG basis.

 

[David Yudkin]

I'm in. Vick is still a PPG monster, even if he misses a few games a year. Unless you think the Mannings or Romo are going to throw the ball excessively this year, I like Vick better than those guys. Vick in PHI can produce like the big guns going in the first and second rounds but can be had 2-3 rounds later. The only player that intrigues me as potentially approaching the elite QBs with a realtively cheap ADP is Ryan (currently with an ADP as 72nd overall). If the Falcons really throw as much as they claim they will, Ryan could be a great fantasy QB at a discount.

Other than that, getting decent and sometimes "good" production out of a QB6-15 guy is not the same as getting "elite" production from Vick many games out of the season. Even if Vick got hurt and missed a couple games, Vick + a generic QB2 = better production than guys not named Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, or Newton.

 

[RalphMouth]

I'm in. Vick is still a PPG monster, even if he misses a few games a year. Unless you think the Mannings or Romo are going to throw the ball excessively this year, I like Vick better than those guys. Vick in PHI can produce like the big guns going in the first and second rounds but can be had 2-3 rounds later. The only player that intrigues me as potentially approaching the elite QBs with a realtively cheap ADP is Ryan (currently with an ADP as 72nd overall). If the Falcons really throw as much as they claim they will, Ryan could be a great fantasy QB at a discount.Other than that, getting decent and sometimes "good" production out of a QB6-15 guy is not the same as getting "elite" production from Vick many games out of the season. Even if Vick got hurt and missed a couple games, Vick + a generic QB2 = better production than guys not named Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, or Newton.

LOL- My thoughts exactly ! I'm targeting in the 5th or I'll wait till the 7th and grab Ryan. If I end up w/Vick I'll back him up w/the likes of Palmer or Cutler who can be taken in the 9th round...sometimes 10th.

 

[Shutout]

I would buy him at that price basically because that's telling me I have some combo of four players at the RB/WR TE positions that ALL should be top tier guys at those positions and then Vick is going to be my QB. I like that because on any given Sunday he CAN outscore ANYBODY taken above him.

 

[gandalas]

I would rather have Philip Rivers in the 5th or 6th than Vick in the 5th. Just saying. He was a top-10 QB in a "down" year last season, and was mentioned in the same tier as Brady/Brees/Rodgers last off-season.

I just see him as a more consistent option who has almost as high of a ceiling.

 

[Terpman22]

The O-line has been poor in philly for some time.

The only thing that has given Philly a chance has been Vicks running ability cuz the line sure cant protect him.

Of course the coaches dont want Vick running too much (due to risk of injury), so there is a conflict of interest here. Vick either has to run, or hes gonna get sacked an extra 10 or 12 times this year.

If he does run, I can see him being fantasy relevant as Run yards for QB are usually worth double that of pass yards and this will also slow down the pass rush somewhat as teams make an effort to contain him. If he listens to the coaches, stays in the pocket, and does not run...... It can be a long season if you own a team with him as your QB.

False.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Alot also depends on scoring system. Vick's value goes up relative to other QBs (except Cam) if passing TDs are worth 3 or 4 vs. 6. He's a slam dunk in the 5th in a 3 pt / TD pass, 1 pt / 25 passing yards type league.

 

[Modog814]

I think the 5th is a very fair price, a bargain even. Much rather take Vick there than Newton in the 2nd (I actually think their numbers will be close if they both play equal number of games). Rivers is the safer play but I don't think he's capable of being a top 3 QB. Vick is (not saying it'll happen, but I think the chance is there).

 

[Tanner9919]

never have been a big Vick fan, but if I can get his production as late as a 5th round selection, I'm all over it

he'd make a great start for at least 1/2 of the fantasy football season ( before he gets hurt, of course).

the only problem is that , after selecting Vick in the 5th, you need to take another qb relatively quickly, say 7th or 8th round..just to cover your butt if/when Vick goes down.

If I came away from the draft with Vick in the 5th, and,say, Roethlisberger in the 7th, I'd be very happy with that 1-2 punch!

 

[bengalbuck]

This is one of those things where it depends largely on scoring format. He's still probably only a 3500 yard passing type guy, so in 1 per 20 passing leagues, he's not quite as attractive. Same with 4 pt. vs. 6 pt. passing TDs as he's likely only a low to mid 20 TD passing guy.

I do tend to think that the McCoy/Vick rushing TDs will swing back towards the middle a little bit. 2010 Vick scored an abnormally high % of the rushing TDs. 2011 McCoy scored an abnormally high %. I think Vick ends up scoring 5-8 TDs on the ground this year, which could make him pretty attractive.

An argument in his favor is the depth at QB this year which lessens the injury risk. If I can grab a guy like Carson Palmer or Matt Schaub relatively late as my backup, my season isn't ruined by a Vick injury.

 

[Ack88]

At a 5th round ADP, buy, buy, buy.

Remember, Vick has the highest ceiling of ANY QB. He has, when healthy and playing well, been the #1 overall player in FF. Grab a reasonable QB 2 for the 3 games he will most likely miss. He was the king of ff in 2010 and many pundits advocated taking him as the top overall selection.

If you can fill two RB and two WR slots in rounds #1-#4, plugging in Vick in round #5 gives you a chance to be dominant. Obviously, if you are risk aversive, than you will avoid, but I prefer to take some calculated gambles after the first couple of rounds.

 

[FF Ninja]

I'm intrigued, but this talk about him being much more conservative is a bit concerning. If he stops running the ball, he loses a lot of value.

 

[Instinctive]

I'm a fan of Vick, but after owning him in his big year (well, most of it. Traded for Orton and a WR upgrade midway through the year) I think that the injury propensity isn't quite being looked at the right way.

It's not the games he misses that hurt you - Vick for 12 + a QB2 for 4 is a top QB you can deal with. But the 2 games or so that lead to a missed game here or there in the year are what hurt you - when he gets knocked out in the 2nd or 3rd quarter and you get half a game. Sometimes it's been a great half...others, it kills you.\

Now, that can be said about anyone getting hurt, but with Vick's injury pattern more similar to a RB than your typical QB, and looking at what else is around at the time, I'd rather have Rodgers or Brady in the 1st and be taking a WR in the 5th, or a guy like Donald Brown who I think is undervalued. I feel like those two QBs so far and away outperform everyone else that they're worth the pricetag.

Disclaimer: 6 pts per TD, period. I do my best to avoid the lesser points for pass TD leagues - where I take Vick all day every day, no doubt.

 

[need2know]

not sure about him falling to the fifth round. all 12 team mocks I have done he usually is gone in the third/ fourth. The other negative besides the injuries, which is huge, is his turnovers. In my league you lose -3 for INTs and -2 for fumbles. he was a turnover machine last year. I would rather have a QB that values the football a bit more. If your league does not penalize for turnovers no big deal. if you can get him the fifth, go for it. any earlier and I think you are overpaying. Rivers, Ryan, Eli, Romo and others taken after him will probably outscore him imo

 

[Ray_T]

The O-line has been poor in philly for some time.

The only thing that has given Philly a chance has been Vicks running ability cuz the line sure cant protect him.

Of course the coaches dont want Vick running too much (due to risk of injury), so there is a conflict of interest here. Vick either has to run, or hes gonna get sacked an extra 10 or 12 times this year.

If he does run, I can see him being fantasy relevant as Run yards for QB are usually worth double that of pass yards and this will also slow down the pass rush somewhat as teams make an effort to contain him. If he listens to the coaches, stays in the pocket, and does not run...... It can be a long season if you own a team with him as your QB.

False.

Well, enlighten us... can you tell me why you think differently? or are you one of those people who just tells people they are wrong and doesnt give any evidence or reason why?

 

[Terpman22]

The O-line has been poor in philly for some time.

The only thing that has given Philly a chance has been Vicks running ability cuz the line sure cant protect him.

Of course the coaches dont want Vick running too much (due to risk of injury), so there is a conflict of interest here. Vick either has to run, or hes gonna get sacked an extra 10 or 12 times this year.

If he does run, I can see him being fantasy relevant as Run yards for QB are usually worth double that of pass yards and this will also slow down the pass rush somewhat as teams make an effort to contain him. If he listens to the coaches, stays in the pocket, and does not run...... It can be a long season if you own a team with him as your QB.

False.

Well, enlighten us... can you tell me why you think differently? or are you one of those people who just tells people they are wrong and doesnt give any evidence or reason why?

Sure. Just took this from Rotoworld, regarding rankings going into this season: 7. Philadelphia Eagles

LT: Demetress Bell

LG: Evan Mathis*

C: Jason Kelce*

RG: Danny Watkins*

RT: Todd Herremans*

Top reserves: OT King Dunlap, C/G Steve Vallos, G/C Julian Vandervelde, G/C Mike Gibson, G/T Brandon Washington, OT Dennis Kelly.

Overview: The Eagles might have pushed for this list's top five pre-Jason Peters injury, but they'll have to settle for top-seven billing. Replacement Bell is a terrific scheme fit for OL coach Howard Mudd, who emphasizes athleticism up front. Mathis, Watkins, and Kelce form one of the league's most promising interiors, and each is entering his first full offseason in Mudd's system. Mathis is already a premier NFL guard. Herremans, who protects southpaw Michael Vick's blind side, allowed just four sacks last season while playing all but seven snaps. In Dunlap, Vallos, and Gibson, the Eagles have 23 career starts on the bench, and in Washington they have a potential left guard of the future. If Philly flounders again this year, it shouldn't be due to the offensive line.

And here is one from Pro Football Focus ranking performances from last year, where the Eagles ranked #2:

2. Philadelphia Eagles (17th)

Run Rank 1st, Pass Rank 12th, Penalties Rank 22nd

Blocking for Michael Vick isn’t always easy, but the Eagles did a great job of putting him in a position to succeed. The left side in particular was superb, forming one of the best tandems we’ve graded since the inception of Pro Football Focus (earning a combined +62.2 grade). There were some issues at the right guard spot, and you wonder if Todd Herremans (+2.4) is best served protecting anyone’s blindside, but this line has it in them to dominate.

Best Player: If Jason Peters (+27.6) was protecting a right handed QB, the left tackle would get the nod. As it is, he doesn’t, and so the incredible year Evan Mathis (+34.6) had should result in a healthy contract for the veteran.

Worst Player: Just being old for a rookie doesn’t mean you’re NFL-ready. Danny Watkins (-8.4) was proof of that.

Your turn buddy

 

[mad_dog]

The O-line has been poor in philly for some time.

The only thing that has given Philly a chance has been Vicks running ability cuz the line sure cant protect him.

Of course the coaches dont want Vick running too much (due to risk of injury), so there is a conflict of interest here. Vick either has to run, or hes gonna get sacked an extra 10 or 12 times this year.

If he does run, I can see him being fantasy relevant as Run yards for QB are usually worth double that of pass yards and this will also slow down the pass rush somewhat as teams make an effort to contain him. If he listens to the coaches, stays in the pocket, and does not run...... It can be a long season if you own a team with him as your QB.

False.

Well, enlighten us... can you tell me why you think differently? or are you one of those people who just tells people they are wrong and doesnt give any evidence or reason why?

Sure. Just took this from Rotoworld, regarding rankings going into this season: 7. Philadelphia Eagles

LT: Demetress Bell

LG: Evan Mathis*

C: Jason Kelce*

RG: Danny Watkins*

RT: Todd Herremans*

Top reserves: OT King Dunlap, C/G Steve Vallos, G/C Julian Vandervelde, G/C Mike Gibson, G/T Brandon Washington, OT Dennis Kelly.

Overview: The Eagles might have pushed for this list's top five pre-Jason Peters injury, but they'll have to settle for top-seven billing. Replacement Bell is a terrific scheme fit for OL coach Howard Mudd, who emphasizes athleticism up front. Mathis, Watkins, and Kelce form one of the league's most promising interiors, and each is entering his first full offseason in Mudd's system. Mathis is already a premier NFL guard. Herremans, who protects southpaw Michael Vick's blind side, allowed just four sacks last season while playing all but seven snaps. In Dunlap, Vallos, and Gibson, the Eagles have 23 career starts on the bench, and in Washington they have a potential left guard of the future. If Philly flounders again this year, it shouldn't be due to the offensive line.

And here is one from Pro Football Focus ranking performances from last year, where the Eagles ranked #2:

2. Philadelphia Eagles (17th)

Run Rank 1st, Pass Rank 12th, Penalties Rank 22nd

Blocking for Michael Vick isn’t always easy, but the Eagles did a great job of putting him in a position to succeed. The left side in particular was superb, forming one of the best tandems we’ve graded since the inception of Pro Football Focus (earning a combined +62.2 grade). There were some issues at the right guard spot, and you wonder if Todd Herremans (+2.4) is best served protecting anyone’s blindside, but this line has it in them to dominate.

Best Player: If Jason Peters (+27.6) was protecting a right handed QB, the left tackle would get the nod. As it is, he doesn’t, and so the incredible year Evan Mathis (+34.6) had should result in a healthy contract for the veteran.

Worst Player: Just being old for a rookie doesn’t mean you’re NFL-ready. Danny Watkins (-8.4) was proof of that.

Your turn buddy

Have to heavily reconsider Vick in my draft strategy. Thanks for the research and data.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

On the wrong side of 30..injuries last longer (and always come) and he won't be getting any faster.

He is STILL living off of 10 games ......2 years ago.

He's trending in the wrong direction.

I don't like picking a QB and KNOWING he's going to miss time.

The OL won't matter...because of his style he WILL get hit and a lot....see line 1.

Pick either Manning, Romo or Rivers over him.

 

[Manster]

I'm intrigued, but this talk about him being much more conservative is a bit concerning. If he stops running the ball, he loses a lot of value.

If he stops running the ball, he's not mike vick. i dont see them holding him back much too much. Its prolly just coach speak or whatever.By the time i draft he'll be creepin up the boards, and i'll prolly pass.