anyone have the kahona's to take Megatron over Moss? (1 Viewer)

[videoguy505]

kahona's??

Sharks indeed.

 

[jurb26]

I think you guys are drastically underestimating the effects of Jahvid Best being at RB. He is a gamebreaker and defenses have to be aware of where he is at all times. Those safeties can no longer drop back in deep zones every play. The LBs can no longer drop back in the short zones and defend, another other things, the slant and crossing routes. If they do any of this, Best has the ability to make them pay. This is just the part involving Best. It doesn't even take into effect Burleson and Scheffler, nor does it factor in the expected improvement of Stafford. The bottom line is defenses can no longer double Calvin whenever they feel like it.

I think many people are drastically overestimating the effects of guys like Best, Burleson and Scheffler. Sure, they are nice additions and will make an impact. However until the Det Oline is drastically better this offense is going to under-perform expectations. Stafford got killed last year. It was about as ugly as I've ever seen. I know they have made some minor improvements and that's all well and good. When you are starting with garbage though you need more than just minor improvements. I love the direction Det is heading but until the Oline proves it is remarkably better the ADP of these Det skill guys is simply too high IMO.

 

[Northbound Train]

Not only would I take him over Moss I am thinking about taking him at 7th in a PPR 12 team league and landing a RB in the 2nd round...

Being doing some mocks this way and winding up with:

CJ - Greene

CJ - Matthews

CJ - D.Will

Or...

Turner/Gore - White/Marshall/Austin

Not sure I'd do that but I have been thinking about it...

CJ over A Johnson is the heart talking....not the kahunas...and definitely not the brain.

Andre Johnson's ADP is 1.05. I don't think he is saying he would take him over Andre.

I would take him over Moss though....although one of my favorite drafting angle's is players in contract year I just can't pass up the yuge upside that C.J presents.

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

Until Calvin Johnson can get his catch percentage up I won't take him over Moss.

 

[Largie]

Until Calvin Johnson can get his catch percentage up I won't take him over Moss.

a lot of that had to do with targets that were just un-catchable....QB play or double/trip coverage etc. Redzone looks to me (11 last year missing 3 games) could easily reach 20ish if he's in all 16 games. I think Moss had 20 in 2007.....

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

Until Calvin Johnson can get his catch percentage up I won't take him over Moss.

a lot of that had to do with targets that were just un-catchable....QB play or double/trip coverage etc. Redzone looks to me (11 last year missing 3 games) could easily reach 20ish if he's in all 16 games. I think Moss had 20 in 2007.....

Percent caught eliminates some issues such as bad throws, etc and only judges "catchable balls". Calvin's percent caught is still only 89%.While I'm a fan of Megatron's talents, Moss is perhaps the most physically talented wr to ever play the game of football, hasn't shown he's over the hill quite yet, and has a HoF qb throwing him the ball.If you had to pick one of these guys to disappoint pre-season projections which guy would you pick?

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Until Calvin Johnson can get his catch percentage up I won't take him over Moss.

That is all well and good, but in general, if you always have to wait for something to be proven before drafting a player, you will miss a lot of potential great picks.

 

[Largie]

Until Calvin Johnson can get his catch percentage up I won't take him over Moss.

a lot of that had to do with targets that were just un-catchable....QB play or double/trip coverage etc. Redzone looks to me (11 last year missing 3 games) could easily reach 20ish if he's in all 16 games. I think Moss had 20 in 2007.....

Percent caught eliminates some issues such as bad throws, etc and only judges "catchable balls". Calvin's percent caught is still only 89%.While I'm a fan of Megatron's talents, Moss is perhaps the most physically talented wr to ever play the game of football, hasn't shown he's over the hill quite yet, and has a HoF qb throwing him the ball.If you had to pick one of these guys to disappoint pre-season projections which guy would you pick?

given Moss is being projected to be the #2 FF WR this season at worst, I'd say him. Calvin is lumped into the Fitz/Wayne/Austin tiers.

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

Until Calvin Johnson can get his catch percentage up I won't take him over Moss.

That is all well and good, but in general, if you always have to wait for something to be proven before drafting a player, you will miss a lot of potential great picks.

I agree. But it works both ways. If you keep swinging for the fences you'll end up with a lot of strikeouts.I don't feel Calvin will be a bust but Moss is not only a safer choice but he has the same upside (if not greater).

 

[Dexter Manley]

A big advantage that Megatron has over Moss that I've yet to see anyone bring up is his playoff schedule:

GB

@TB

@MIA

1 game is in a dome and the other 2 are in Florida. The only chance of bad weather would be rain in the 2 Florida games (and I don't consider rain that big of deal unless there is a lot of wind with it or it's a freakish thunderstorm).

Now compare that to New England's playoff schedule:

@CHI

GB

@BUF

All 3 of these games have significant potential for nasty weather which could adversely effect the passing game.

 

[Largie]

Until Calvin Johnson can get his catch percentage up I won't take him over Moss.

That is all well and good, but in general, if you always have to wait for something to be proven before drafting a player, you will miss a lot of potential great picks.

I agree. But it works both ways. If you keep swinging for the fences you'll end up with a lot of strikeouts.I don't feel Calvin will be a bust but Moss is not only a safer choice but he has the same upside (if not greater).

I'm not sure anyone, including the Pats, really know what their offense is going to look like this year. Going into 2007 I was extremely high on Moss doing some great things, despite 80% of the population thinking he was going to turtle like he did in Oakland. The TEAM, not just Brady was firing on all cylinders, o-line in particular was considered on of the best and the offensive scheme was shotgun, spread them out and fire. Circa 2010 and can anyone safely say that Moss is still going to get his 13 TD's (3 TD game last year in Jax notwithstanding)with what seems to be a more traditional, under center, run/quick check-down offense? The AFC East was a joke in 2007 and has now become one of the stronger defensive divisions in the league. Revis and even Davis in Miami shut him down last season - that's 4 games! Brady stayed away from OTA's this year - which could mean little given he's a "HOF" QB. Then I listen and read what Stafford and CJ have been doing in the offseason, and the anticipated progression of a 2nd year QB and healthy Megatron, and it reminds me of the "potential" Moss had his 1st preseason in NE. A lot of shotgun, spread out offense and we know CJ is the center piece of that....can't say that Moss is the center piece of the passing game in NE, especially with Welker healthy.

 

[Grahamburn]

A big advantage that Megatron has over Moss that I've yet to see anyone bring up is his playoff schedule:GB@TB@MIA1 game is in a dome and the other 2 are in Florida. The only chance of bad weather would be rain in the 2 Florida games (and I don't consider rain that big of deal unless there is a lot of wind with it or it's a freakish thunderstorm).Now compare that to New England's playoff scheduleCHIGB@BUFAll 3 of these games have significant potential for nasty weather which could adversely effect the passing game.

I thought about this too, and then I remembered the 3 TDs Randy Moss caught in a snowstorm against the Titans last year. The Patriots seem to know how to throw the ball in adverse weather if necessary.I like both of these players and actually expect them to have very similar stats. 85 for 1,300 and double digit TDs should be expected from both with upside for a special season. Moss has 8 top 5 WR finishes under his belt already in his career. We know for a fact that he can do it. Calvin has 2008 and that's it.I took Moss at #8 overall in my .5 PPR redraft league, but I Calvin and really only took Moss to hedge the league I own Johnson in (and chase another epic season from Moss). Faced with the decision of only having one of them for the season I would take CJ. I definitely agree that the stars could be aligning for Megatron to put up monster numbers.

 

[Grahamburn]

Until Calvin Johnson can get his catch percentage up I won't take him over Moss.

That is all well and good, but in general, if you always have to wait for something to be proven before drafting a player, you will miss a lot of potential great picks.

I agree. But it works both ways. If you keep swinging for the fences you'll end up with a lot of strikeouts.I don't feel Calvin will be a bust but Moss is not only a safer choice but he has the same upside (if not greater).

I'm not sure anyone, including the Pats, really know what their offense is going to look like this year. Going into 2007 I was extremely high on Moss doing some great things, despite 80% of the population thinking he was going to turtle like he did in Oakland. The TEAM, not just Brady was firing on all cylinders, o-line in particular was considered on of the best and the offensive scheme was shotgun, spread them out and fire.

Circa 2010 and can anyone safely say that Moss is still going to get his 13 TD's (3 TD game last year in Jax notwithstanding)with what seems to be a more traditional, under center, run/quick check-down offense? The AFC East was a joke in 2007 and has now become one of the stronger defensive divisions in the league. Revis and even Davis in Miami shut him down last season - that's 4 games!

Brady stayed away from OTA's this year - which could mean little given he's a "HOF" QB. Then I listen and read what Stafford and CJ have been doing in the offseason, and the anticipated progression of a 2nd year QB and healthy Megatron, and it reminds me of the "potential" Moss had his 1st preseason in NE. A lot of shotgun, spread out offense and we know CJ is the center piece of that....can't say that Moss is the center piece of the passing game in NE, especially with Welker healthy.

Moss had 8 receptions, 213 yards, and 2 TDs in NE's two games against Miami. All I've heard is that Moss is abusing people in camp, and in practice sessions with the Saints. In the little bit of preseason action I've seen so far he's been unstoppable when Brady goes to him. Do you really think that the Patriots aren't going to take their shots when they have a WR like Randy Moss on their team?

The Patriots are going to have to throw to win games and Randy Moss will still be the beneficiary of a ton of deep balls and red zone targets.

 

[Clifton]

Who wants the Magatron side of this action?

 

[Largie]

I thought about this too, and then I remembered the 3 TDs Randy Moss caught in a snowstorm against the Titans last year. The Patriots seem to know how to throw the ball in adverse weather if necessary.

59-0 blowout and the bottom of the Titans season....both starting CB's were out. Include this game and the week 17 Jax game and there's nearly half of Moss's TD's for the year.

 

[jurb26]

59-0 blowout and the bottom of the Titans season....both starting CB's were out. Include this game and the week 17 Jax game and there's nearly half of Moss's TD's for the year.

OK, so let's also take out Johnson's 2 best games and effectively remove 294 yds and 2 TDs. That would also be almost half of his TD output for the season. We can also extend this pointless exercise to A. Johnson and remove 342 yds and 4 TDs. Also nearly half his TD output for the year.What's your point?

 

[Dexter Manley]

A big advantage that Megatron has over Moss that I've yet to see anyone bring up is his playoff schedule:GB@TB@MIA1 game is in a dome and the other 2 are in Florida. The only chance of bad weather would be rain in the 2 Florida games (and I don't consider rain that big of deal unless there is a lot of wind with it or it's a freakish thunderstorm).Now compare that to New England's playoff scheduleCHIGB@BUFAll 3 of these games have significant potential for nasty weather which could adversely effect the passing game.

I thought about this too, and then I remembered the 3 TDs Randy Moss caught in a snowstorm against the Titans last year. The Patriots seem to know how to throw the ball in adverse weather if necessary.

I remember the Titans snow game. I believe that was a week 6 game. I don't live in New England, but I'm pretty sure snowstorms are worse in December/January than they are in October.I also remember the late season fantasy playoff games against the Bills and Jets the last few seasons when Moss didn't do jack because no one could pass the ball due to the weather. I can't think of a worse place for you wr1 to play during the playoffs, let alone the Super Bowl, than at Buffalo. And playing at Chicago in late December has got to be one of the worst 5 places for wr's to play too.

 

[Largie]

59-0 blowout and the bottom of the Titans season....both starting CB's were out. Include this game and the week 17 Jax game and there's nearly half of Moss's TD's for the year.

OK, so let's also take out Johnson's 2 best games and effectively remove 294 yds and 2 TDs. That would also be almost half of his TD output for the season. We can also extend this pointless exercise to A. Johnson and remove 342 yds and 4 TDs. Also nearly half his TD output for the year.What's your point?

how many 3 TD games vs cannon fodder teams do you expect this season? Another 2 or more?

 

[Monk81]

59-0 blowout and the bottom of the Titans season....both starting CB's were out. Include this game and the week 17 Jax game and there's nearly half of Moss's TD's for the year.

Moss seems especially inconsistent because he's capable of those monster games. As a Moss owner last year it was pretty frustrating to watch... some games my points went up like a pinball machine and others it looked like a soccer score.Anyway, I solved this problem last night in a 10-team league by drafting both. We'll see how that goes.

 

[jurb26]

59-0 blowout and the bottom of the Titans season....both starting CB's were out. Include this game and the week 17 Jax game and there's nearly half of Moss's TD's for the year.

OK, so let's also take out Johnson's 2 best games and effectively remove 294 yds and 2 TDs. That would also be almost half of his TD output for the season. We can also extend this pointless exercise to A. Johnson and remove 342 yds and 4 TDs. Also nearly half his TD output for the year.What's your point?

how many 3 TD games vs cannon fodder teams do you expect this season? Another 2 or more?

You don't get to just take away the best games from a player because you don't like him. If you are going to take them away, take them away from everybody. The bottom line is this. If you take away all of the above mentioned WR's best games Moss still clearly scores the most TDs. He scores 7, AJ cores 5 and CJ scores 3.

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

All wr's are inconsistent. Not just Moss. It's the nature of the position.

 

[Monk81]

All wr's are inconsistent. Not just Moss. It's the nature of the position.

I agree. With Moss it is especially apparent because he's capable of going from 1 catch for 36 yards and 0 TDs to 8 catches, 129 yards, and 3 tds in the very next game. Few receivers are capable of 8/129/3 but most are capable of 1/36/0

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

Until Calvin Johnson can get his catch percentage up I won't take him over Moss.

That is all well and good, but in general, if you always have to wait for something to be proven before drafting a player, you will miss a lot of potential great picks.

I agree. But it works both ways. If you keep swinging for the fences you'll end up with a lot of strikeouts.I don't feel Calvin will be a bust but Moss is not only a safer choice but he has the same upside (if not greater).

Winky your wrong broseph